2020 Vision for the Nets

[ecuhus1981]

The 19-20 Brooklyn Nets are at a crossroads.

It seems that the stardust from a miraculous 2019 offseason has finally worn away; injuries, frustrations, questionable decisions and tough losses have taken their toll. I doff my cap to the next-man-up mentality that has powered us thus far. Spencer, Jarrett, Garrett, Taurean, Joe and others have answered the bell for roles they were not meant to fill, with varying degrees of success but a consistent level of professionalism. I imagine you can only hypnotize yourself that you are better than you are for so long.

Here we sit, with a record of 16-18 and a tough road ahead. Some would say it's a testament to our collective mindset, not to be even further buried in the standings. But we remain the 7th seed, due to Dinwiddie's heroics and Allen's maturation. However, we have 4 back-to-backs before the All-Star break, and face over half of those games against playoff teams.

CLV is back, but Kyrie's injury timetable is... nebulous at best. He spoke about the impingement this past weekend for the first time in ages; we're still attempting to stave off surgery with rest and cortizone. Regulars on this board know that I predicted a KD return this season. I believe it is no coincidence that his camp has been mute since Irving's injury. While I still think that it is plausible that Durant could play 25-30 regular season games, without Kyrie playing, it is best to operate with an abundance of caution and just sit him out the entire season. So, the KI injury is twofold.

All that said, what are your predictions and expectation for the remainder of the season? Should we rotate regulars for rest, and attempt to fall in the standings in order to retain our lotto-protected 1st-round pick? Should we rage against the dying of the light, knowing that without Kevin and Kyrie, we are at best looking at another 5-game 1st-round exit? Should we entertain a trade to consolidate young role players into a 3rd star? Or perhaps pawn off veterans for future youth assets???

Lastly, I'll include a poll for how you think we'll end up at season's end. It's up to you to provide the rationale as to how we'll get there, and please share your thoughts.

[drchaos]

If Kyrie gets shut down for the season we might just get to keep out first round pick this year.

[Papi_swav]

I'm torn honestly. I don't see Kyrie coming back for a while this season, if he does. So we might as well just sit him the rest of the year if he isn't even back by March. I think we should let KD come back next season too. So if we're playing the rest of the year with the same team we currently have right now, it's tough to decide.

Levert seems like he'll be on load management the rest of the way. We're still good enough to make it to at least an 8th seed but it's really no point honestly if we're going to get stomped and can very likely get swept. This month and heading into the All star break will tell alot. We have to give Din some days off too, he looks very fatigued and it's a little unfair how he has almost all the responsibility to lead this team now.

I know you guys are going to crucify me for saying this, but if we're under .500 by All star break, let's say 24-28 or so, we might as well embrace the tank. But I know we'll never do that under Marks, and we never did even when we were horrible . So I expect us to make a playoff push for one of the last 2 spots and try to put up a fight in the playoffs. Whatever.

[LOUiS-D]

The east sucks too much. Our supporting cast is probably too good to fall out of the playoffs. I'm fine with it either way. I just want everyone to get healthy and be sustainably healthy.

[Lamak]

I'm not really in panic mode about anything cause we knew this year would be about building chemistry until Durant returns for next year after they announced he wouldn't play. Definitely don't want to rush to try to compete when last year's playoffs were a surprise as well. At this point in the season, I want Irving to get surgery and want Durant to fully rehab and be ready for next season. Try to just develop our core players of Levert, Harris, Allen, and Dinwiddie and let them expand their games as much as possible. Kurucs, Musa and Claxton should also be getting more burn.

It's no point in tanking because we don't really need to try to develop a high round pick when next year we want to contend for championship. I'd rather go all out and make a deal for KAT and shoot for the stars if things get worse than try to draft high picks. Our FO seems to really like to get players out of the g league and develop them anyway. Just really hoping for improved coaching and actual plays being run cause all of that isolation and pick and roll we run won't work no matter how many stars we have, because most teams play our style now and we don't play 100% effort all the time anymore. We shot the least 2 pointers in a game in history this year and I don't know why and our high pace will hurt injury prone players.

[Stone]

My guess is that we go 500 for the rest of the season and end up with 43 wins.

Like MBD hilariously said in another thread....Every time we lose our board goes on suicide watch. After losing 5 in a row it does take a little wind out of our sails, but it something that happens to even good teams. I'm confident that we have the talent to turn things around. We did last year.


I can't see us missing the playoffs unless more guys go down with injurys. My main concern right now is Kyrie. I don't know what to make of it. I hope his injury does not hurt his ability to perform at a high level.

I would be very surprised if KD returned this season. I really have not given it any thought because I can't see it happening. But I would be happy if he did return as long as 100 % healthy.

[GTR11]

I voted with my heart 40-45.
My mind tells me somewhere around 30. This is a bad team without key players. These role players very limited outside their specific job. It'll get ugly.

[gigantes]

Nice thread and nice thoughts above; just very hard to predict the future, other than that the Nets will never tank.

I could see additional injuries devastating the remaining roster, combined with maybe a surge from one of the other weaker teams (Orlando, Knicks??) knocking the Nets cleanly out of the PO's.

I could also very much see the team gaining a second wind under CLV, then Irving and Durant returning in time to round in to form, with a real shot to upset a contender... possibly to even challenge for the conference (still as a dark horse, though).

All poll options are looking pretty good at this point.

[MrDollarBills]

If we don't get Kyrie back I don't see us making the playoffs.

[Shark]

I voted 36-40 wins and sneaking into the playoffs, but after tonight's display, I'm honestly not sure we'll even get that many wins. I'm still leaning towards yes, but something is going to have to change for things to turn around.

[therealbig3]

Intelligent decision would be to shut down Kyrie, tank, and get a lotto pick this year, and let Kyrie and Durant come back together healthy next year.

[Prokorov]

it depends if kyrie comes back... if he does we win 50-55 games still and maybe make the ECF.

if he doesnt come back, we fight for a 6-8 seed and finish around .500

it looks like Kyrie wont be back or will miss another 20-30 games even if he does. so id say 6-8 seed.

[Prokorov]

Intelligent decision would be to shut down Kyrie, tank, and get a lotto pick this year, and let Kyrie and Durant come back together healthy next year.

Tanking doesnt work. its the dumbest thing anyone can ever do. if we tank, our franchise goes to complete crap. and 0 chance of winning in the next decade

you can never get the tanking stench off a team. its why philly is such an underachiever

[ecuhus1981]

A bit OT:, Prok, I'm interested to get your take on the school of thought, that sand-bagging is different than tanking. Sand-bagging would be, for instance, losing strategically in order to avoid a particular outcome, like aiming a 4th seed instead of fighting for a 3rd because you match up better against the 1st seed than the 2nd seed. Whereas tanking is just straight-up losing as much as possible for ping pong balls, a more extreme, long-term and IMO culture-damaging strategy.

For us, IF Irving and Durant are both 100% definitively ruled out for the year, emptying the tank with the rest of the team seems hollow. Shaving off 3 wins from our max-effort potential could mean the difference between giving ATL our #15 pick, and keeping the #11 pick in this summer's draft. And those 3 wins wouldn't come from telling players not to play well, or by freezing out veterans and showcasing only the kids. It would be a system-based approach of fully utilizing our depth, limiting undue wear-and-tear from heavy PT, limiting exposure in back-to-backs (the thing that precipitated Kyrie's injury in the first place) and the like. It doesn't seem like the stench of tanking to me at all, just... appropriate to the moment.

[Prokorov]

A bit OT:, Prok, I'm interested to get your take on the school of thought, that sand-bagging is different than tanking. Sand-bagging would be, for instance, losing strategically in order to avoid a particular outcome, like aiming a 4th seed instead of fighting for a 3rd because you match up better against the 1st seed than the 2nd seed. Whereas tanking is just straight-up losing as much as possible for ping pong balls, a more extreme, long-term and IMO culture-damaging strategy.

For us, IF Irving and Durant are both 100% definitively ruled out for the year, emptying the tank with the rest of the team seems hollow. Shaving off 3 wins from our max-effort potential could mean the difference between giving ATL our #15 pick, and keeping the #11 pick in this summer's draft. And those 3 wins wouldn't come from telling players not to play well, or by freezing out veterans and showcasing only the kids. It would be a system-based approach of fully utilizing our depth, limiting undue wear-and-tear from heavy PT, limiting exposure in back-to-backs (the thing that precipitated Kyrie's injury in the first place) and the like. It doesn't seem like the stench of tanking to me at all, just... appropriate to the moment.

No you dont tank and you dont sandbag.

If the choice were "Sand bag" for even 1 extra loss and get the #1 overall pick in a draft with lebron-type or go all out and lose the pick id go all out and lose the pick

you can never get the stench of losing off. never. we finally have something special here. dont throw it away. im 100% confident marks wont, he isnt that short sighted

[ecuhus1981]

No you dont tank and you dont sandbag.

If the choice were "Sand bag" for even 1 extra loss and get the #1 overall pick in a draft with lebron-type or go all out and lose the pick id go all out and lose the pick

you can never get the stench of losing off. never. we finally have something special here. dont throw it away. im 100% confident marks wont, he isnt that short sighted

I can appreciate the definitive nature of your mindset, though I certainly disagree with you on the extent. Everything has an opportunity cost, and maxing out is about more than wins and losses. It's also about injury risk mitigation; if our Big 2 already ruled out, I see no honor or purpose in pushing our top 7 guys' minutes in an effort to eek out a couple more wins. You run a greater risk of injury that way, and even if health remains good and we secure the extra 2 or 3 wins, we're not preparing our players for the roles they will assume when KD and KI return.

BTW, the stench of losing (with subtle notes of heroball and mismanagement) is wafting all over Brooklyn right now, whether or not we lean into it...

[Prokorov]

No you dont tank and you dont sandbag.

If the choice were "Sand bag" for even 1 extra loss and get the #1 overall pick in a draft with lebron-type or go all out and lose the pick id go all out and lose the pick

you can never get the stench of losing off. never. we finally have something special here. dont throw it away. im 100% confident marks wont, he isnt that short sighted

I can appreciate the definitive nature of your mindset, though I certainly disagree with you on the extent. Everything has an opportunity cost, and maxing out is about more than wins and losses. It's also about injury risk mitigation; if our Big 2 already ruled out, I see no honor or purpose in pushing our top 7 guys' minutes in an effort to eek out a couple more wins. You run a greater risk of injury that way, and even if health remains good and we secure the extra 2 or 3 wins, we're not preparing our players for the roles they will assume when KD and KI return.

BTW, the stench of losing (with subtle notes of heroball and mismanagement) is wafting all over Brooklyn right now, whether or not we lean into it...

im ok sitting guys for health. im not ok sitting them to lose

[ecuhus1981]

Well, Irving is back, and Durant's agent is outchea making on-the-fence quotes as to the possibility of his client returning to the court his season. I knew there was a possibility that we could turn it around, and we're not out of the woods by any means. But Kyrie's return buoys my spirit.

As I've stated previously, no one wants to see us at full strength. It is clear that everyone involved with KD's recovery is committed to conservative caution. STILL, he's attacking his rehab just like I said he would. I say he returns at the All-Star break, give or take 5 games. The gradual process of minutes restrictions that we've seen with Caris and Kyrie will be in full force for Kevin, and it could take 10 or more games to truly get back into an on-court rhythm. In the home stretch of the season and into the postseason, I like our chances.

It's always darkest before dawn. I wasn't trying to fear-monger or be a bad fan with this post. You can be an optimist, and still acknowledge murky prospects. I merely wanted to explore possibilities, and get a sense of what the rest of Nets nation was thinking. THANKS!

[Prokorov]

Well, Irving is back, and Durant's agent is outchea making on-the-fence quotes as to the possibility of his client returning to the court his season. I knew there was a possibility that we could turn it around, and we're not out of the woods by any means. But Kyrie's return buoys my spirit.

As I've stated previously, no one wants to see us at full strength. It is clear that everyone involved with KD's recovery is committed to conservative caution. STILL, he's attacking his rehab just like I said he would. I say he returns at the All-Star break, give or take 5 games. The gradual process of minutes restrictions that we've seen with Caris and Kyrie will be in full force for Kevin, and it could take 10 or more games to truly get back into an on-court rhythm. In the home stretch of the season and into the postseason, I like our chances.

It's always darkest before dawn. I wasn't trying to fear-monger or be a bad fan with this post. You can be an optimist, and still acknowledge murky prospects. I merely wanted to explore possibilities, and get a sense of what the rest of Nets nation was thinking. THANKS!

if Durant comes back... which is a huge if, it 10000% wont be by the all-star break

[ecuhus1981]

if Durant comes back... which is a huge if, it 10000% wont be by the all-star break

Hey, I'm certainly not advocating that we rush him back into action. IF our performance staff deemed it a health or re-injury risk for Kevin to play at any point this season, I know he wouldn't go. i'd be fine with that. But, that isn't the case.

Cris Carter (don't ask me WHY he's a such a reliable source, he just is) reported from a close source of Durant that he would be physically healed in 6.5 months. The surgery was June 12th, so 6.5 months would have been right before New Year's. The first week of the new year, Atkinson says that Kevin is moving "fantastically". Kenny, the stingiest person about spoken superlatives I've ever known, said that. Heck, even when Kyrie spoke at the beginning of the season about the "sleeping monster" that is Durant, he said "in the coming months". Not next season, not sometime in the future, he specifically said months. The organization has been mum about it, but the signs are all there.

Obviously, since a serious tweak or setback could snuff out the possibility of his return this season, it's better that we haven't openly promised or stoked optimism. Just wait and see. You're always so darn optimistic about everything else about the Nets; copy and paste here.