MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

Je K · Post #241 » by **Je K** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 1:18 am

FlatearthZorro wrote:Honestly, I'll have Doncic as MVP. The reason behind it is that the Mavs team outside of him is barely average and I feel that they will finish top 5 in the West which is impressive.

I just don't see those as arguments for Doncic when Harden has a worse supporting cast and better record.

Colbinii · Post #242 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 1:47 am

Je K wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:Honestly, I'll have Doncic as MVP. The reason behind it is that the Mavs team outside of him is barely average and I feel that they will finish top 5 in the West which is impressive.

I just don't see those as arguments for Doncic when Harden has a worse supporting cast and better record.

It is because people don't actually watch games and think the Rockets are loaded with Peak Russell Westbrook and believe the role playera on the Mavericks are bad.

The Lazy Potato · Post #243 » by **The Lazy Potato** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 7:58 am

Sorry but it's kind stupid to vote for Luka when his team is 6th seed in the west. Team success really matter on this, you can't just ignore it..

Stribor · Post #244 » by **Stribor** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 8:44 am

I trully am a Doncicstan. He is comming from my part of the world and reminds me on some of my favorite players of all time. Having said that - it is 1. Harden 2. Giannis 3. Doncic for me. I really dislike the way Harden plays, but he is really phenomenal and super efficient scorer. If you would compute his Z-score for this season, I bet that it would be top 2 or 3 if not the first of all time. Have to respect that. Giannis I like a bit more, but still less than Luka. And again this season he is still clearly more impactful player. But the future is bright, and I hope Luka gets few MVPs and rings when all is said and done,

Statlanta · Post #245 » by **Statlanta** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 9:36 am

It's basically a Giannis/Harden race.

Doncic has too many years ahead of him.
LBJ/Davis take too many votes.

So it's one of two arguments

Take the guy with normal MVP stats on the (2nd) best team.
Take the guy with near-record level stats on a good team.

Tie-breaker goes to the guy who is more entertaining to watch, no points on guessing who...

User_friendly · Post #246 » by **User_friendly** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 10:00 am

The Lazy Potato wrote:Sorry but it's kind stupid to vote for Luka when his team is 6th seed in the west. Team success really matter on this, you can't ignore it..

Luka is not there (yet), but not because of that.
Had he been the same and had been Dallas 1st, I still wouldn't give to him.
Because it would just mean others (THJ, Porzingis, etc.) would have been much better/uninjured, etc.
But he would have exactly the same credit for MVP (because that's what the premise was --> Being exactly the same).

The_Brecht · Post #247 » by **The_Brecht** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 10:28 am

9/34 fg, 4/20 3pt
19/23 ft
8 turnovers

A triple double nonetheless, but sheesh, that's horrible.

Nightfall · Post #248 » by **Nightfall** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 10:59 am

The_Brecht wrote:9/34 fg, 4/20 3pt
19/23 ft
8 turnovers

and in a game they won with +7, he was -3 in the 40+ minutes he played...

But he scored 41 and had a Triple double. Game changer. Best Player ever, etc etc :lol:

Nightfall · Post #249 » by **Nightfall** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 11:03 am

Regarding Giannis's impact on defense :

Read on Twitter

KGtabake · Post #250 » by **KGtabake** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 11:15 am

Read on Twitter

KGtabake · Post #251 » by **KGtabake** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 11:54 am

1. Luka
2. Giannis
3. LeBron

Hephaestus · Post #252 » by **Hephaestus** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 1:44 pm

MrPerfect1 · Post #253 » by **MrPerfect1** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 2:28 pm

Nightfall wrote:
The_Brecht wrote:9/34 fg, 4/20 3pt
19/23 ft
8 turnovers

and in a game they won with +7, he was -3 in the 40+ minutes he played...

But he scored 41 and had a Triple double. Game changer. Best Player ever, etc etc

Even more Embarrassing than that shooting performance might be playing 40 mins against the Hawks. HOU plays Harden 40 mins so he can take 34 Shots against the Hawks. The Bucks on the other hand have played 3x against the Hawks. Giannis has played 65 Minutes total in 3 games against them.

Here as another interesting fact. In 2 Games, Harden has almost as many Shots against ATL as Giannis has Minutes played against ATL in 3 games. (In actuality, Harden's # of shots is actually higher than GIannis minutes played but when you are shooting and fouled, those are not counted as shot attempts if you miss).

bballgod07 · Post #254 » by **bballgod07** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 2:54 pm

Nightfall wrote:
The_Brecht wrote:9/34 fg, 4/20 3pt
19/23 ft
8 turnovers

and in a game they won with +7, he was -3 in the 40+ minutes he played...

But he scored 41 and had a Triple double. Game changer. Best Player ever, etc etc

They won? He has the highest TS% in the league, way above Kumbo, and shooting from long range....

greekbuck34 · Post #255 » by **greekbuck34** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 3:00 pm

To be fair to Harden if you want to average the unreal 40PPG you have to statpad against the trash teams of the league both on good nights and especially on bad nights. There is a reason so many great scorers didn't do it before. They didn't want to play more than necessary to try it and/or force it at the expense of their team..

If Harden manages to do it nobody will remember the way.

Kabookalu · Post #256 » by **Kabookalu** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 3:30 pm

My first time entering this thread. These topics are so much different when Durant and Curry aren't involved lol.

bballgod07 · Post #257 » by **bballgod07** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 4:03 pm

greekbuck34 wrote:To be fair to Harden if you want to average the unreal 40PPG you have to statpad against the trash teams of the league both on good nights and especially on bad nights. There is a reason so many great scorers didn't do it before. They didn't want to play more than necessary to try it and/or force it at the expense of their team..

If Harden manages to do it nobody will remember the way.

Why are you hating bro? Harden has to be in there because westbrook wasn't playing and they only won by 7. The rockets always had major injuries throughout harden career. But he has always carried his team to the top of his conference playing who whoever. Give the man this prop and stop hating on greatness.

MrPerfect1 · Post #258 » by **MrPerfect1** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 4:05 pm

bballgod07 wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:To be fair to Harden if you want to average the unreal 40PPG you have to statpad against the trash teams of the league both on good nights and especially on bad nights. There is a reason so many great scorers didn't do it before. They didn't want to play more than necessary to try it and/or force it at the expense of their team..

If Harden manages to do it nobody will remember the way.

Why are you hating bro? Harden has to be in there because westbrook wasn't playing. The rockets always had major injuries throughout harden career. But he has always carried his team to the top of his conference playing who whoever. Give the man this prop and stop hating on greatness.

Last night's performance is not what I would call "greatness" by any stretch of the imagination.

Ron Swanson · Post #259 » by **Ron Swanson** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 4:19 pm

Neither performance by Giannis or Harden last night would be what I'd call greatness. Both guys did what they had to do to and scraped by two garbage teams. Still Giannis by a decent margin but I'd say Harden has at least made up some ground with his play lately, last night's horrid efficiency aside.

Post #260 » by **ken6199** » Thu Jan 9, 2020 5:05 pm

One game can trigger that much insecurity? Damn it's simultaneously depressing and entertaining reading this thread.

A has a good game - A fans praise, B fans down play it.
A has a bad game - B fans attack, A fans defend.
where A & B are any two of Giannis'/Harden/Doncic.

Rinse and repeat.

Who is your pick for the 2019-20 MVP?