MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

[ken6199]

Harden shot 49% from 3 in December, hardly see a single Bucks fan say anything positive about it (at least not those usual, frequent Bucks posters).

Harden shot 25% in a 41/10/10, all those well known guys came out guns blazing with cool data analysis and green font jokes.

Is that normal fan behavior these days? Something u should take as norm? Does that mean those guys had quite an uneasy, anxious, suffering December throughout the holiday period, and finally had a relief last night that they can smile about? If so I kinda feel bad for them. If that's how you enjoy sports which is an entertainment after all, I don't think it's fun anymore.

[bballgod07]

Harden shot 49% from 3 in December, hardly see a single Bucks fan say anything positive about it (at least not those usual, frequent Bucks posters).

Harden shot 25% in a 41/10/10, all those well known guys came out guns blazing with cool data analysis and green font jokes.

Is that normal fan behavior these days? Something u should take as norm? Does that mean those guys had quite an uneasy, anxious, suffering December throughout the holiday period, and finally had a relief last night that they can smile about? If so I kinda feel bad for them. If that's how you enjoy sports which is an entertainment after all, I don't think it's fun anymore.

The funny thing are those people who keeps on assuming 41/10/10 is something that anyone could get in the nba if they chunk like Harden. Why dont they do it and get paid 40m instead of 3m a year then lol

[Perseus1966]

Harden shot 49% from 3 in December, hardly see a single Bucks fan say anything positive about it (at least not those usual, frequent Bucks posters).

Harden shot 25% in a 41/10/10, all those well known guys came out guns blazing with cool data analysis and green font jokes.

Is that normal fan behavior these days? Something u should take as norm? Does that mean those guys had quite an uneasy, anxious, suffering December throughout the holiday period, and finally had a relief last night that they can smile about? If so I kinda feel bad for them. If that's how you enjoy sports which is an entertainment after all, I don't think it's fun anymore.

We say that he is a great scorer ,what else you want from us?

[NyKnicks1714]

Harden shot 49% from 3 in December, hardly see a single Bucks fan say anything positive about it (at least not those usual, frequent Bucks posters).

Harden shot 25% in a 41/10/10, all those well known guys came out guns blazing with cool data analysis and green font jokes.

Is that normal fan behavior these days? Something u should take as norm? Does that mean those guys had quite an uneasy, anxious, suffering December throughout the holiday period, and finally had a relief last night that they can smile about? If so I kinda feel bad for them. If that's how you enjoy sports which is an entertainment after all, I don't think it's fun anymore.

We say that he is a great scorer ,what else you want from us?

There are a lot of great scorers: Giannis, Luka, LeBron, AD, Lillard, etc. There's probably nobody in NBA history that could put up 38+ points a game as efficiently as Harden is this season.

He's not just a great scorer, he's levels above anybody else in the NBA. You can't say the same for any single skill possessed by any other player.

[dygaction]

Harden shot 49% from 3 in December, hardly see a single Bucks fan say anything positive about it (at least not those usual, frequent Bucks posters).

Harden shot 25% in a 41/10/10, all those well known guys came out guns blazing with cool data analysis and green font jokes.

Is that normal fan behavior these days? Something u should take as norm? Does that mean those guys had quite an uneasy, anxious, suffering December throughout the holiday period, and finally had a relief last night that they can smile about? If so I kinda feel bad for them. If that's how you enjoy sports which is an entertainment after all, I don't think it's fun anymore.

We say that he is a great scorer ,what else you want from us?

There are a lot of great scorers: Giannis, Luka, LeBron, AD, Lillard, etc. There's probably nobody in NBA history that could put up 38+ points a game as efficiently as Harden is this season.

Stephen's unanimous MVP season was more impressive. Across board better efficiency and % than Harden. Curry played less min and the difference was mostly from free throws. The biggest difference is Curry's team won a lot more in the regular season as he was a MUCH better in playing no ball.

He's not just a great scorer, he's levels above anybody else in the NBA. You can't say the same for any single skill possessed by any other player.

[Young gun 6]

17 points on 17 shots.

True shooting % though...

[ken6199]

17 points on 17 shots.

True shooting % though...

18 points on 27 shots on christmas day in Philly. Do we really have to do this?

I literally wrote a post above - player a had a bad game (after an insanely good stretch), guys relieved and came in attacking. You, at least I thought u were better than this.

[Sulico]

Fun fact.

WS/48, BPM and VORP, Harden, Doncic and Giannis all lead the league in one stat, have one 2nd place and one 3rd place.

WS/48
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL .304
2. James Harden • HOU .302
3. Luka Dončić • DAL .279

BPM
1. Luka Dončić • DAL 13.2
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 12.4
3. James Harden • HOU 11.1

VORP
1. James Harden • HOU 4.4
2. Luka Dončić • DAL 4.2
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 4.1

[MrPerfect1]

Harden shot 49% from 3 in December, hardly see a single Bucks fan say anything positive about it (at least not those usual, frequent Bucks posters).

Harden shot 25% in a 41/10/10, all those well known guys came out guns blazing with cool data analysis and green font jokes.

Is that normal fan behavior these days? Something u should take as norm? Does that mean those guys had quite an uneasy, anxious, suffering December throughout the holiday period, and finally had a relief last night that they can smile about? If so I kinda feel bad for them. If that's how you enjoy sports which is an entertainment after all, I don't think it's fun anymore.

We say that he is a great scorer ,what else you want from us?

There are a lot of great scorers: Giannis, Luka, LeBron, AD, Lillard, etc. There's probably nobody in NBA history that could put up 38+ points a game as efficiently as Harden is this season.

He's not just a great scorer, he's levels above anybody else in the NBA. You can't say the same for any single skill possessed by any other player.

You forgot the Green font. Shaq for example averaged almost 40 in the Finals against a HOF Caliber Defensive player. It would be criminal what he would be able to do in today's NBA. Heck, he'd average 80 if he got the same whistle Harden got.

[NyKnicks1714]

We say that he is a great scorer ,what else you want from us?

There are a lot of great scorers: Giannis, Luka, LeBron, AD, Lillard, etc. There's probably nobody in NBA history that could put up 38+ points a game as efficiently as Harden is this season.

He's not just a great scorer, he's levels above anybody else in the NBA. You can't say the same for any single skill possessed by any other player.

You forgot the Green font. Shaq for example averaged almost 40 in the Finals against a HOF Caliber Defensive player. It would be criminal what he would be able to do in today's NBA. Heck, he'd average 80 if he got the same whistle Harden got.

I'm assuming you're talking about 2001, where he averaged 35 a game in the finals? Even if we make it 40 just for fun, it's a 5-game sample size. EDIT: 38 against the Pacers in 2000. Still, 6-game sample size.

Let's be a little more reasonable and use his best regular seasons. Obviously the pace is faster now, so I'll use per 100 possession stats. Shaq's best ever regular season points per 100 pos was 40.1, and his best ever TS% was .605 (I won't count his Boston or Phoenix TS%). Note that these came in two separate seasons, so I'm inflating things a little here on Shaq's end.

Harden's current pp 100 pos is 47.3, and his TS% is .638. So no, there's really nothing to suggest that Shaq could do what Harden is doing this season.

[NyKnicks1714]

Stephen's unanimous MVP season was more impressive. Across board better efficiency and % than Harden. Curry played less min and the difference was mostly from free throws. The biggest difference is Curry's team won a lot more in the regular season as he was a MUCH better in playing no ball.

Alright, this is fair. I'll retract "probably no one" and say "one other player" in NBA history could do it. It doesn't change my point though.

[MrPerfect1]

There are a lot of great scorers: Giannis, Luka, LeBron, AD, Lillard, etc. There's probably nobody in NBA history that could put up 38+ points a game as efficiently as Harden is this season.

He's not just a great scorer, he's levels above anybody else in the NBA. You can't say the same for any single skill possessed by any other player.

You forgot the Green font. Shaq for example averaged almost 40 in the Finals against a HOF Caliber Defensive player. It would be criminal what he would be able to do in today's NBA. Heck, he'd average 80 if he got the same whistle Harden got.

I'm assuming you're talking about 2001, where he averaged 35 a game in the finals? Even if we make it 40 just for fun, it's a 5-game sample size. EDIT: 38 against the Pacers in 2000. Still, 6-game sample size.

Let's be a little more reasonable and use his best regular seasons. Obviously the pace is faster now, so I'll use per 100 possession stats. Shaq's best ever regular season points per 100 pos was 40.1, and his best ever TS% was .605 (I won't count his Boston or Phoenix TS%). Note that these came in two separate seasons, so I'm inflating things a little here on Shaq's end.

Harden's current pp 100 pos is 47.3, and his TS% is .638. So no, there's really nothing to suggest that Shaq could do what Harden is doing this season.

Shaq was going against Ewing, Robinson, Olajuwon, Mutombo, etc in addition to a PF who often was helping defend in the paint and putting up huge stats.

You are just ignoring how many teams play small these days. Shaq would laugh at and brutalize the amount of teams that go small ball. Teams today are 100x less built to stop Shaq today.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

People don't like Harden because he is the embodiment of what is wrong with the NBA today on steroids.

[KGtabake]

I don't like it but i admit(since i was the one insisting that team record is a major factor for the award last season) that the Mavs must finish in the top4 for Luka to have a chance.
As it is right now, i can't see them finish above 6th.
Which is still amazing if you consider the fact that he's playing with average teammates but it's not enough for him to win this.

[KGtabake]

17 points on 17 shots.

True shooting % though...

18 points on 27 shots on christmas day in Philly. Do we really have to do this?

I literally wrote a post above - player a had a bad game (after an insanely good stretch), guys relieved and came in attacking. You, at least I thought u were better than this.

The problem with your post is simple. Find another game except Christmas that Antetokounmpo shot this bad. Not only this season. Every season he has played. You found the worst shooting game of his entire career i guess. Harden has enough games like that(currently 2 in the row for example)
Antetokounmpo on the other hand rarely gets that low.

[Perseus1966]

It was bad because he had 0-7 3s ,if giannis was statpadding likes james his ts would be 80%

[DutchManDanFan]

Harden shot 49% from 3 in December, hardly see a single Bucks fan say anything positive about it (at least not those usual, frequent Bucks posters).

For me Harden is a very good no 2. Luka, LeBron and AD are 3-5.

Finals MVP is always on the winning team. In this line, best player on best team is always a strong candidate. If it’s best player by far on best team by far, only something very special can change my vote. Triple double (if it wasn’t done a few years ago), 40+ ppg, 35+ ppg and 1 seed in West. Something like that.

At the moment the Bucks have 27 more wins than losses. Lakers are +23 but don’t have one best player by far.
Houston are +13. The difference with the Bucks is just too significant. You can’t erase this with roster, coach/system or conference.
The only way Harden wins if you use a formula. But as long as people vote for this I think my argument is shared by many voters.

[mcmurphy]

Fun fact.

WS/48, BPM and VORP, Harden, Doncic and Giannis all lead the league in one stat, have one 2nd place and one 3rd place.

WS/48
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL .304
2. James Harden • HOU .302
3. Luka Dončić • DAL .279

BPM
1. Luka Dončić • DAL 13.2
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 12.4
3. James Harden • HOU 11.1

VORP
1. James Harden • HOU 4.4
2. Luka Dončić • DAL 4.2
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 4.1

Another fun fact.
The fat guy immediately behind these three is not in the poll.

[Ron Swanson]

Lol, yeah I just realized. Why on earth is Jokic not in the poll but Kemba and Donovan Mitchell are?

[eminence]

A) Gobert/Jokic should be in the poll over Kemba/Mitchell. Embiid should probably drop out of the next one at this point as well.

B) As of now Giannis/LeBron/Harden are my only serious candidates, and in that order. Anyone else is very much on the fringes.