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payitforward wrote:Right, thanks.
So... you are thinking they might give us Zhaire Smith, plus a 2020 R1 pick (say #21), plus Jonah Bolden, plus 1 or 2 of the top 2020 R2 picks? All for Davis Bertans?
Is that it? Do we have to sign a paper promising not to laugh at them after the trade is complete?
payitforward wrote:Ruzious wrote:payitforward wrote:Well... if we could get either one of them, it would be a no-brainer.
But, Philly gave two picks to get Thybulle, & he's playing very well. Do you think they'd trade him? I don't know.
I think they'd like to win the NBA Championship this year, and to do that they definitely need a great 3 point shooter. Does that answer your question?
Btw, I must be the no-brained person, because I don't know which one you'd choose - MPJ or Thybulle.I think most people would say that MPJ has better stats.
I guess, thinking that we couldn't get either one of them, I didn't consider which I would prefer.
For sure, Porter's numbers are better overall.
gambitx777 wrote:Well Smith and bolden aren't really playing and arnt showing much in the g league but they have potential and I meant the first and one of the high seconds. The first might not convey .so it would turn into two future seconds. So I guess my question is do those 4 lower assets (a former first and second round pick playing in the G League, a heavy protected first and a high ish second.) Equal thybulle and a second or thybulle and the heavy protected first.payitforward wrote:Right, thanks.
So... you are thinking they might give us Zhaire Smith, plus a 2020 R1 pick (say #21), plus Jonah Bolden, plus 1 or 2 of the top 2020 R2 picks? All for Davis Bertans?
Is that it? Do we have to sign a paper promising not to laugh at them after the trade is complete?
payitforward wrote:Right, thanks.
So... you are thinking they might give us Zhaire Smith, plus a 2020 R1 pick (say #21), plus Jonah Bolden, plus 1 or 2 of the top 2020 R2 picks? All for Davis Bertans?
Is that it? Do we have to sign a paper promising not to laugh at them after the trade is complete?
JAR69 wrote:I keep thinking Justise Winslow would be a good fit for the Wizards. Strong defender, pretty good 3 pt shooter the last two full seasons (not so much this year in limited games), made strides with ballhandling last year to the point that MIA used him as a PG type. Starter-quality at SF, but not great. Also maybe injury-prone. I very much want to resign Bertans, but keeping him is taking a risk, no matter what he is saying now. On the trade board, there is a thread on Winslow's value in which MIA fans say they need a PF who can space the floor. Winslow is signed for $13 million for the next two years, with 2021-22 a team option. Thoughts on a trade centered around them? Maybe it depends on if you think TBJ is starter-quality, or will be within the Beal window.
Bertans/Miles for Winslow/Okpala works in the trade checker.
Next year, something like:
Wall/Ish
Beal/McCrae/Matthews
Winslow/TBJ/Admiral
Rui/Bonga/Admiral
Bryant/Wagner/AP
Plus our first round pick and high second rounder.
JAR69 wrote:
Bertans/Miles for Winslow/Okpala works in the trade checker.
Next year, something like:
Wall/Ish
Beal/McCrae/Matthews
Winslow/TBJ/Admiral
Rui/Bonga/Admiral
Bryant/Wagner/AP
Plus our first round pick and high second rounder.
Ruzious wrote:JAR69 wrote:I keep thinking Justise Winslow would be a good fit for the Wizards. Strong defender, pretty good 3 pt shooter the last two full seasons (not so much this year in limited games), made strides with ballhandling last year to the point that MIA used him as a PG type. Starter-quality at SF, but not great. Also maybe injury-prone. I very much want to resign Bertans, but keeping him is taking a risk, no matter what he is saying now. On the trade board, there is a thread on Winslow's value in which MIA fans say they need a PF who can space the floor. Winslow is signed for $13 million for the next two years, with 2021-22 a team option. Thoughts on a trade centered around them? Maybe it depends on if you think TBJ is starter-quality, or will be within the Beal window.
Bertans/Miles for Winslow/Okpala works in the trade checker.
Next year, something like:
Wall/Ish
Beal/McCrae/Matthews
Winslow/TBJ/Admiral
Rui/Bonga/Admiral
Bryant/Wagner/AP
Plus our first round pick and high second rounder.
It's something to think about, but he started the season so poorly. I guess it depends on if you believe his previous improvements in 3 point shooting are legit. I doubt he gets a chance here to play the point, and that was where he seemed to play his best last season. Seems like a bunch of reasons to say no - he hasn't put it together yet, but he does have potential. I'd lean toward no at this point.
jivelikenice wrote:Not sure I see a trade w/Philly. Zhaire Smith has been hurt and playing poorly at the G league level so what value does he hold aside from at one point being a 1st rd pick? Thybulle likely isn't going to be made available....i just don't see a fit with them. They also don't have OKC's pick unless its top 20, right? If that pick doens't convey, it becomes future 2nds....Just no fit there imo.
dckingsfan wrote:...- have you seen what OKC is doing? Wow. They are playing terrific basketball .579 and won 8 of their last 10. Chris Paul seems happy and they are pretty loaded going forward. ...
2020 second round draft pick from Chicago
Chicago's 2020 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Chicago's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished) [Chicago-Oklahoma City, 2/1/2019]
...
DCZards wrote:JAR69 wrote:
Bertans/Miles for Winslow/Okpala works in the trade checker.
Next year, something like:
Wall/Ish
Beal/McCrae/Matthews
Winslow/TBJ/Admiral
Rui/Bonga/Admiral
Bryant/Wagner/AP
Plus our first round pick and high second rounder.
I can't see a scenario where Winslow starts ahead of Troy Brown Jr., who may already be better than Winslow.
payitforward wrote:DCZards wrote:JAR69 wrote:Bertans/Miles for Winslow/Okpala works in the trade checker.
Next year, something like:
Wall/Ish
Beal/McCrae/Matthews
Winslow/TBJ/Admiral
Rui/Bonga/Admiral
Bryant/Wagner/AP
Plus our first round pick and high second rounder.
I can't see a scenario where Winslow starts ahead of Troy Brown Jr., who may already be better than Winslow.
At 20 years of age, Troy Brown is already way way better than Justise Winslow. Not that it's hard to be better than that guy. Most players in the league are.
Fortunately, at 20 years of age, Troy is also quite good.
Btw, we don't have a "high second rounder" in the 2020 draft. Ernie p#ssed it away. But, we do have Chicago's high second rounder. &, I hope, a R2 pick that Tommy buys from someone.
payitforward wrote:DCZards wrote:JAR69 wrote:
Bertans/Miles for Winslow/Okpala works in the trade checker.
Next year, something like:
Wall/Ish
Beal/McCrae/Matthews
Winslow/TBJ/Admiral
Rui/Bonga/Admiral
Bryant/Wagner/AP
Plus our first round pick and high second rounder.
I can't see a scenario where Winslow starts ahead of Troy Brown Jr., who may already be better than Winslow.
At 20 years of age, Troy Brown is already way way better than Justise Winslow. Not that it's hard to be better than that guy. Most players in the league are.
Fortunately, at 20 years of age, Troy is also quite good.
Btw, we don't have a "high second rounder" in the 2020 draft. Ernie p#ssed it away. But, we do have Chicago's high second rounder. &, I hope, a R2 pick that Tommy buys from someone.
dckingsfan wrote:payitforward wrote:DCZards wrote:I can't see a scenario where Winslow starts ahead of Troy Brown Jr., who may already be better than Winslow.
At 20 years of age, Troy Brown is already way way better than Justise Winslow. Not that it's hard to be better than that guy. Most players in the league are.
Fortunately, at 20 years of age, Troy is also quite good.
Btw, we don't have a "high second rounder" in the 2020 draft. Ernie p#ssed it away. But, we do have Chicago's high second rounder. &, I hope, a R2 pick that Tommy buys from someone.
I think that is the point. And I think that he is already a good "fit" in that he is an excellent defensive rebounder from the SF position. Given our current defensive rebounding woes from the PF position - that is super important. Add to that his TS% is solid for a 20 year old and his 3 point shot "seems like" it is coming along - make him (as you would say) quite good with a high probability to get better (or much better).
In short, I agree that we hold onto Troy. In fact, unless we grab another high volume defensive rebounder - it is almost a must.
Okay, I shouldn't say this because it is negative but... players like Brown and what could have been Brandon Clarke would have made a Bryant/Wagner grouping even more palatable.
JAR69 wrote:dckingsfan wrote:payitforward wrote:At 20 years of age, Troy Brown is already way way better than Justise Winslow. Not that it's hard to be better than that guy. Most players in the league are.
Fortunately, at 20 years of age, Troy is also quite good.
Btw, we don't have a "high second rounder" in the 2020 draft. Ernie p#ssed it away. But, we do have Chicago's high second rounder. &, I hope, a R2 pick that Tommy buys from someone.
I think that is the point. And I think that he is already a good "fit" in that he is an excellent defensive rebounder from the SF position. Given our current defensive rebounding woes from the PF position - that is super important. Add to that his TS% is solid for a 20 year old and his 3 point shot "seems like" it is coming along - make him (as you would say) quite good with a high probability to get better (or much better).
In short, I agree that we hold onto Troy. In fact, unless we grab another high volume defensive rebounder - it is almost a must.
Okay, I shouldn't say this because it is negative but... players like Brown and what could have been Brandon Clarke would have made a Bryant/Wagner grouping even more palatable.
I'm not sure Brown is "way way" better than Winslow right now. I think of it as closer to a wash - Winslow seems better on defense and Brown gets you more on offense. But that doesn't matter for this exercise. If the consensus is that it is somewhere between a wash and Brown is way way better, the trade doesn't make sense. Only if Winslow is head and shoulders above Brown would trading Bertans for Winslow be worth it.
Also, I was thinking of the more favorable of the Chicago/Memphis pick we are getting as the high second rounder.
Ruzious wrote:payitforward wrote:DCZards wrote:I can't see a scenario where Winslow starts ahead of Troy Brown Jr., who may already be better than Winslow.
At 20 years of age, Troy Brown is already way way better than Justise Winslow. Not that it's hard to be better than that guy. Most players in the league are.
Fortunately, at 20 years of age, Troy is also quite good.
Btw, we don't have a "high second rounder" in the 2020 draft. Ernie p#ssed it away. But, we do have Chicago's high second rounder. &, I hope, a R2 pick that Tommy buys from someone.
To be picky, the Wiz get the higher of the Griz or Bulls 2nd rounders from the Sato trade - which will likely be the Bulls' pick.
Perhaps that could be used in a Bertans trade to get a slightly higher pick.
payitforward wrote:Ruzious wrote:payitforward wrote:At 20 years of age, Troy Brown is already way way better than Justise Winslow. Not that it's hard to be better than that guy. Most players in the league are.
Fortunately, at 20 years of age, Troy is also quite good.
Btw, we don't have a "high second rounder" in the 2020 draft. Ernie p#ssed it away. But, we do have Chicago's high second rounder. &, I hope, a R2 pick that Tommy buys from someone.
To be picky, the Wiz get the higher of the Griz or Bulls 2nd rounders from the Sato trade - which will likely be the Bulls' pick.
Perhaps that could be used in a Bertans trade to get a slightly higher pick.
Maybe. But the Bulls pick is likely to be the #35-7, & you can often get quite a good player at that spot. E.g., right now, nbadraftroom has Tyler Bey going #35.
Now... there'll be a lot of changes in the next 6 months, obviously! Still we will need to add multiple young players. If we do trade Bertans, we only have 9 guys coming back -- 10 if we assume Garrison Mathews will return (wch I hope we do assume!). So, there's room for our R1, Chicago's R2, whatever picks we get for Bertans if he's traded. Lots of room.
All the more, in fact, if we retain Bertans at, say, $15m, putting us at @$114m in salaries for 11 guys. Add a high R1 pick & the Bulls R2 pick, & that's @$120m for 13 players. Reasonably comfortable assuming the lux tax at @$136m next year. A good spot to be, as it would give us some nice flexibility.
Ruzious wrote:payitforward wrote:Ruzious wrote:To be picky, the Wiz get the higher of the Griz or Bulls 2nd rounders from the Sato trade - which will likely be the Bulls' pick.
Perhaps that could be used in a Bertans trade to get a slightly higher pick.
Maybe. But the Bulls pick is likely to be the #35-7, & you can often get quite a good player at that spot. E.g., right now, nbadraftroom has Tyler Bey going #35.
Now... there'll be a lot of changes in the next 6 months, obviously! Still we will need to add multiple young players. If we do trade Bertans, we only have 9 guys coming back -- 10 if we assume Garrison Mathews will return (wch I hope we do assume!). So, there's room for our R1, Chicago's R2, whatever picks we get for Bertans if he's traded. Lots of room.
All the more, in fact, if we retain Bertans at, say, $15m, putting us at @$114m in salaries for 11 guys. Add a high R1 pick & the Bulls R2 pick, & that's @$120m for 13 players. Reasonably comfortable assuming the lux tax at @$136m next year. A good spot to be, as it would give us some nice flexibility.
Indeed things will change. Remember last year someone saying we'd have only 4 players returning, and we ended up this offseason having too many players to keep someone like Jemerio Jones.
JAR69 wrote:payitforward wrote:At 20 years of age, Troy Brown is already way way better than Justise Winslow. Not that it's hard to be better than that guy. Most players in the league are....
I'm not sure Brown is "way way" better than Winslow right now. I think of it as closer to a wash - Winslow seems better on defense and Brown gets you more on offense. But that doesn't matter for this exercise. If the consensus is that it is somewhere between a wash and Brown is way way better, the trade doesn't make sense. Only if Winslow is head and shoulders above Brown would trading Bertans for Winslow be worth it...