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Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#501 » by jc23 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:54 pm

The Explorer wrote:Speaking of perkins, he ripped Boylen recently on the radio.

"I try to be a fan of Jim Boylen, but I can't," Perkins said. "I can't -- not in today's NBA. The way he's running his system, it just don't work like this no more."

"I always look at the bench," said Perkins, an NBA insider for Radio.com Sports. "I look at the camaraderie. I look to see if guys actually enjoy playing with one another. And I don't think it's necessarily that the guys don't like playing with each other. I think it's just that the guys, they're going out there and playing hard, but they're not having fun. And when you see a team playing hard but guys are not having fun, I don't see jumping up and down from the bench, I don't see guys chest-bumping or nothing to that nature, to me, it falls back on the coach. Because him running that high school-type, building that high school-type atmosphere, culture, the guys are not having fun. I know it's a job and we get paid millions of dollars to play the game of basketball and you're supposed to take it serious, but at the end of the day, you're also supposed to enjoy this. You're supposed to love this. You go out there and you're supposed to have fun."


i see the exact same bench celebrations on every nba team including the Bulls. And payers on the bench didnt begin to celebrate this way until the late 2000's (i think). I want to say it started around the time of lebrons first stint with the cavs. Either way the Bulls stink and watching the game tells me more then watching the bench does.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#502 » by dougthonus » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:25 pm

gardenofsound wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Didn't think it was thread worthy, but interestingly I saw Denzel Valentine at Yolk in the Ogilivie train station building at lunch Thursday. Thought that was a bit odd that he was there so early and just odd in general given it would have been a travel day the day before.


You sure it was Denzel?

I've been at a bar (Federales) and mistaken Drew Valentine for Denzel. Turns out Denzel was there also... they look a lot alike.


Didn't talk to him, so of course, can't be 100% sure.

Based on an image search, I would think it wasn't Drew, but again, can't be sure.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#503 » by dice » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:45 pm

RedBulls23 wrote:Does Kendrick Perkins have the biggest ego for a scrub in NBA history? Any one else come to mind?

he wasn't a scrub early in his career prior to injury. sure was after that though
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#504 » by dice » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:47 pm

Ice Man wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:The fact that Portis did the same move on back to back games, basically tells me, he tried to block the shot, but since he has no vertical, it just turns into a bad foul.


No way on earth that this was accidental. He is much too far away from the ball.

Image

even if you watch the video, he wasn't even LOOKING at the ball
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#505 » by dice » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:51 pm

Ice Man wrote:The Celts do not have impressive personnel. Brown and Tatum are good but not great 2-way wings. They along with Kemba (who truly is special) and Brad's coaching are the reason for the team's success. After that it's a nice role player in Smart, the ghost of Gordon Hayward, and a bunch of Bulls quality guys. I can see why Philly has beaten them three straight times. Philly is just as talented without Embiid.

injury issues aside, hayward is playing as well or better than he ever has so far this season
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#506 » by dice » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:54 pm

Mech Engineer wrote:It is not rocket science to build a top 4 team around a prime Jimmy Butler even without any assets, IMO

i think you're mixing up jimmy butler and lebron james
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#507 » by chrispatrick » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:04 pm

dice wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:It is not rocket science to build a top 4 team around a prime Jimmy Butler even without any assets, IMO

i think you're mixing up jimmy butler and lebron james


I don't think he is. Butler's on/off court impact has always been insanely good. Put him around some guys who can space and defend and you're going to get a top 4-5 team in the east.

Heck, we kept making the playoffs with Butler despite having amazingly nonsensical rosters around him.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#508 » by Ice Man » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:18 pm

dice wrote:injury issues aside, hayward is playing as well or better than he ever has so far this season


Hmmm. You're right, I overstated my case. You are closer to truth with that one that I was.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#509 » by Mech Engineer » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:28 pm

chrispatrick wrote:
dice wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:It is not rocket science to build a top 4 team around a prime Jimmy Butler even without any assets, IMO

i think you're mixing up jimmy butler and lebron james


I don't think he is. Butler's on/off court impact has always been insanely good. Put him around some guys who can space and defend and you're going to get a top 4-5 team in the east.

Heck, we kept making the playoffs with Butler despite having amazingly nonsensical rosters around him.


I hope he didn't misunderstand that I meant top 4 in the league. I meant as you wrote top 4 in the east.

With Jimmy, it would have not have a big challenge to build a top 4 team in the east and then get creative to take it up a notch. Miami has done with basically nothing compared to what the Bulls had.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#510 » by Chi town » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:31 pm

Mech Engineer wrote:
chrispatrick wrote:
dice wrote:i think you're mixing up jimmy butler and lebron james


I don't think he is. Butler's on/off court impact has always been insanely good. Put him around some guys who can space and defend and you're going to get a top 4-5 team in the east.

Heck, we kept making the playoffs with Butler despite having amazingly nonsensical rosters around him.


I hope he didn't misunderstand that I meant top 4 in the league. I meant as you wrote top 4 in the east.

With Jimmy, it would have not have a big challenge to build a top 4 team in the east and then get creative to take it up a notch. Miami has done with basically nothing compared to what the Bulls had.


The heat have hit on their mid 1sts. We haven’t.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#511 » by TheSuzerain » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:50 pm

It's very easy to build around Jimmy.

It's very easy to build around any 2-way star wing which is what he is.

That GarPax failed at that is about as stinging an indictment on their abilities as there can be.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#512 » by dice » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:59 pm

Mech Engineer wrote:
chrispatrick wrote:
dice wrote:i think you're mixing up jimmy butler and lebron james


I don't think he is. Butler's on/off court impact has always been insanely good. Put him around some guys who can space and defend and you're going to get a top 4-5 team in the east.

Heck, we kept making the playoffs with Butler despite having amazingly nonsensical rosters around him.


I hope he didn't misunderstand that I meant top 4 in the league. I meant as you wrote top 4 in the east.

With Jimmy, it would have not have a big challenge to build a top 4 team in the east and then get creative to take it up a notch. Miami has done with basically nothing compared to what the Bulls had.

i did think you meant in the league, so my mistake i guess
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#513 » by VolumePoster » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:04 pm

Chi town wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:
chrispatrick wrote:
I don't think he is. Butler's on/off court impact has always been insanely good. Put him around some guys who can space and defend and you're going to get a top 4-5 team in the east.

Heck, we kept making the playoffs with Butler despite having amazingly nonsensical rosters around him.


I hope he didn't misunderstand that I meant top 4 in the league. I meant as you wrote top 4 in the east.

With Jimmy, it would have not have a big challenge to build a top 4 team in the east and then get creative to take it up a notch. Miami has done with basically nothing compared to what the Bulls had.


The heat have hit on their mid 1sts. We haven’t.


I think our failure is just as much about poor player development, as it is who we pick.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#514 » by MrSparkle » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:34 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
Chi town wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:
I hope he didn't misunderstand that I meant top 4 in the league. I meant as you wrote top 4 in the east.

With Jimmy, it would have not have a big challenge to build a top 4 team in the east and then get creative to take it up a notch. Miami has done with basically nothing compared to what the Bulls had.


The heat have hit on their mid 1sts. We haven’t.


I think our failure is just as much about poor player development, as it is who we pick.


I agree. I also think "development" should be balanced with "evaluation" -- making an early decision on whether it's worth committing to a player or not. There is no reason to hang onto a PF log-jam with 2 young hype picks and a long-time vet in his prime. If it's the wing position, then you can overstock, but still, you need to decide whether you want Kobe and Eddie Jones, or just Kobe and better-fitting players around him. You need to decide whether George Hill is that fantastic as to not gamble on draft night and trade his rookie contract for #16/Kawhi and cap-space.

I still really can't find any legitimate excuse for why the Bulls had Taj, Niko and Bobby all in Bulls uniforms coming into 2016/17. Compound that with Lopez being a full-time prime center, in a really fast/pace-changed league. It was stupid. They needed some perimeter shooters to give Rondo, Wade or Jimmy some space (in what should've been more staggered rotations), and instead they added even worse shooters in MCW, Payne and Grant.

GarPax's style is to wait out a player's development to the very end of the road... for seemingly no reason, because they end up letting them walk or trading them in a low value deadline exchange. We've seen it with so many guys at this point; almost every promising Bulls' pickup, their story ends as walking in FA or a deadline dump for negative-value players and/or cap-savings.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#515 » by kingkirk » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:47 pm

Dan Z wrote:
Ice Man wrote:
Dan Z wrote:The problem is that if you have Butler you'll most likely make the playoffs (low seed..I don't agree with being #4) and never have a high draft pick.


You mean, like Miami? I'll take it.


Miami already had Bam before they got Butler. Who was at that level on the Bulls? Mirotic? Portis? Lopez?

Also do you expect the Bulls to find a player like Nunn and draft someone like Herro? It's possible, but I'd say doubtful.

Like I said previously I think they should've kept Butler, but I understand why they moved on.


They got Bam and Herro with the No. 13 picks. If you’re good at scouting and good at developing, you can do this.

Same thing as the Raptors. Look at all the players they’ve found.

The Bulls admitted to the world that they’re not good when they’re dealt Butler. Good orgs don’t do that move.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#516 » by MrFortune3 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:00 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
Chi town wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:
I hope he didn't misunderstand that I meant top 4 in the league. I meant as you wrote top 4 in the east.

With Jimmy, it would have not have a big challenge to build a top 4 team in the east and then get creative to take it up a notch. Miami has done with basically nothing compared to what the Bulls had.


The heat have hit on their mid 1sts. We haven’t.


I think our failure is just as much about poor player development, as it is who we pick.


It's a mixture of both. The Bulls under Paxson have always liked a certain type of player. A certain demeanor, coming from a successful college program, well coached and etc. That will help you build a solid team but probably with a low ceiling.

The times in which we've gone away from that formula have not ended well for us outside of maybe Rose depending on what you considered him to be at Memphis.

The Heat have a similar formula but they go for more potential and then find ways to harness it.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#517 » by Ice Man » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:41 pm

Mark K wrote:They got Bam and Herro with the No. 13 picks. If you’re good at scouting and good at developing, you can do this.


The Heat currently are a Butler/Bam team, with significant help from Dragic. Everybody else is a role player, and Herro's not yet one of the better ones. But you're right, he was a good #13 selection, he figures to be a real player in 2 or 3 years.

My takeaway from the Heat being second in the East that winning with Jimmy Butler (or another elite point wing) is as simple as getting one additional stud, one decent third option, and a bunch of easily obtainable guys who execute their roles. And -- this is the key -- having a GM, coach, and franchise that has its act together, so that the team isn't a randomly selected bag of bones, but is a group that was assembled and is coached with a clear plan. The Bulls don't have that. Even if they matched the Heat in terms of raw talent, they wouldn't function as well as a unit.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#518 » by Dan Z » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:45 pm

I haven't kept up on Mirotic in Europe, but I just came across this tweet:

Read on Twitter
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#519 » by dumbell78 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:06 pm

All Jimmy wanted was for a team to buy into him and believe in him, much like he believed in himself. Guy is probably the hardest working player in the league IMO. This org didn't think he was worth the investment (didn't believe in him) and they are fools for it. That will never change. Jimmy was ready to be a Bull for life.

I still contend that we could have easily turned it around and become competitive after that last year when we squeaked into the playoffs(for that dear playoff $$).Guys were banged up and team wasn't close to cohesive. You sit some guys and you're a late lottery pick. Guys in that draft spot are there to build with Jimmy, after you commit to him. Guys like Bam, DMitchell, Collins etc. It would have been a quick reset, I don't know….kind of like what MIAMI JUST DID!!!!

You make some small SMART CAP maneuvers, like not signing Shrek to that stupid deal, buy out Wade, keep NIko, dump your laundry list of bigs that are clogging the roster, etc. You're back in business. This org isnt Miami, top down, and like Johnny just said yesterday flat our boring. For my tastes...the ultimate bland sandwich that you just don't want to pick up.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#520 » by jc23 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:53 pm

dice wrote:
Ice Man wrote:The Celts do not have impressive personnel. Brown and Tatum are good but not great 2-way wings. They along with Kemba (who truly is special) and Brad's coaching are the reason for the team's success. After that it's a nice role player in Smart, the ghost of Gordon Hayward, and a bunch of Bulls quality guys. I can see why Philly has beaten them three straight times. Philly is just as talented without Embiid.

injury issues aside, hayward is playing as well or better than he ever has so far this season


bill Simmons disagrees with that statement. just read his opinion on gh on twitter.
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