Game 38: Orlando Magic (18-20) @ Phoenix Suns (14-23)

[Ghost of Kleine]

His defense was a difference maker out there for sure.

Let's get some more defenders out there. Devin's more efficient than Iverson, Melo and Kobe were on offense, after all. Who are the best defenders available on the trade market? Other than Zubac, I mean?

It's really hard to be sure exactly who might be available in a trade. But defenders are definitely what we need, And strong defenders positionally are especially important due to our lapses on/ around the perimeter too.

https://fadeawayworld.net/2019/10/19/ranking-the-best-nba-defenders-by-tiers/ .

Honestly, IF I had to guess, Of the best defenders that we could maybe trade for:

- Serge Ibaka.
- Derrick Favors.
- Justice Winslow.
- Josh Richardson.
- Jrue Holiday.
- Jerami Grant.
- Jay Crowder.
- Patrick Patterson.
- James Johnson.
- Andre Roberson.
The best defenders that we need, We'll likely have to overpay for. But IF we were able to afford 2 of the above, Even through overpaying in a trade, I'd prefer Grant and Richardson. Bottom line is that we have to start somewhere. And we need to be shrewd and aggressive to accomplish our goals. Also to change our culture issues more rapidly.

Yeah, this isn't really a great list. Mostly wings - and we have those. I can't imagine Jerami Grant being moved.

bw mentioned Jrue. We'd have to bring Oubre off the bench, and my guess the cost would Tyler's expiring and a pile of picks. Only one more year left on that contract.

Always tough to make big changes mid-season.

That it isn't man. Although some of those wings could be multipositional defenders though. And Ibaka and Favors could play at both the 4 and the 5 if needed. Patterson and J. Johnson are both undersized 4s' too. But both are still considered very good positional defenders nevertheless. Justice Winslow is intriguing because he can really cover 1-4 pretty well defensively and on the perimeter. As for Grant, He's an important part of there core for now. But he's also still the backup power forward on their roster. So I guess it really depends upon who they prefer more as their starter for now whilst they're trying to compete. Do they resign Milsapp for their playoff run? If so, I'd look to at least make a solid offer and see if they'll bite.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/DEN/denver-nuggets/depth-chart/

Now I do also understand that to acquire him via trade, We'd likely have overpay a bit to get him. And as much as I like him for our needs, IF the price were too high, I'd be cool with waiting for him to reach 2021 free agency, Wherein he'd be unrestricted. He has a player option in 2020 as well.

As far as Jrue, I know that it's been tossed around here for awhile now. And he also has a player option for 2021 that he may exercise. I have also heard that Denver has been really coveting the idea of acquiring him. So maybe if we somehow helped to facilitate them getting him, in a 3 team trade, We could snag Grant and another piece, So that we could carry his bird rights to resign him?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=rwvnfmo . Phoenix adds a 2020 top 10 lottery protected first. Denver adds a 2022 lottery protected first.

- Denver really gets deeper and competes with adding Jrue, Baynes and Saric.

- New Orleans gets 2 great young prospects and two firsts for Jrue. Rather than watching him potentially walk for nothing in 2021, If he turns down his player option.

- Phoenix pays a hefty price by moving Baynes and a first, But gets the best possible fit defensively next to Ayton and Oubre. There are probably better possible variations of this trade, so feel free of course to share thoughts on what changes might be needed for everything to be more palatable.

[bwgood77]

It's really hard to be sure exactly who might be available in a trade. But defenders are definitely what we need, And strong defenders positionally are especially important due to our lapses on/ around the perimeter too.

https://fadeawayworld.net/2019/10/19/ranking-the-best-nba-defenders-by-tiers/ .

Honestly, IF I had to guess, Of the best defenders that we could maybe trade for:

- Serge Ibaka.
- Derrick Favors.
- Justice Winslow.
- Josh Richardson.
- Jrue Holiday.
- Jerami Grant.
- Jay Crowder.
- Patrick Patterson.
- James Johnson.
- Andre Roberson.
The best defenders that we need, We'll likely have to overpay for. But IF we were able to afford 2 of the above, Even through overpaying in a trade, I'd prefer Grant and Richardson. Bottom line is that we have to start somewhere. And we need to be shrewd and aggressive to accomplish our goals. Also to change our culture issues more rapidly.

Yeah, this isn't really a great list. Mostly wings - and we have those. I can't imagine Jerami Grant being moved.

bw mentioned Jrue. We'd have to bring Oubre off the bench, and my guess the cost would Tyler's expiring and a pile of picks. Only one more year left on that contract.

Always tough to make big changes mid-season.

That it isn't man. Although some of those wings could be multipositional defenders though. And Ibaka and Favors could play at both the 4 and the 5 if needed. Patterson and J. Johnson are both undersized 4s' too. But both are still considered very good positional defenders nevertheless. Justice Winslow is intriguing because he can really cover 1-4 pretty well defensively and on the perimeter. As for Grant, He's an important part of there core for now. But he's also still the backup power forward on their roster. So I guess it really depends upon who they prefer more as their starter for now whilst they're trying to compete. Do they resign Milsapp for their playoff run? If so, I'd look to at least make a solid offer and see if they'll bite.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/DEN/denver-nuggets/depth-chart/

Now I do also understand that to acquire him via trade, We'd likely have overpay a bit to get him. And as much as I like him for our needs, IF the price were too high, I'd be cool with waiting for him to reach 2021 free agency, Wherein he'd be unrestricted. He has a player option in 2020 as well.

As far as Jrue, I know that it's been tossed around here for awhile now. And he also has a player option for 2021 that he may exercise. I have also heard that Denver has been really coveting the idea of acquiring him. So maybe if we somehow helped to facilitate them getting him, in a 3 team trade, We could snag Grant and another piece, So that we could carry his bird rights to resign him?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=rwvnfmo . Phoenix adds a 2020 top 10 lottery protected first. Denver adds a 2022 lottery protected first.

- Denver really gets deeper and competes with adding Jrue, Baynes and Saric.

- New Orleans gets 2 great young prospects and two firsts for Jrue. Rather than watching him potentially walk for nothing in 2021, If he turns down his player option.

- Phoenix pays a hefty price by moving Baynes and a first, But gets the best possible fit defensively next to Ayton and Oubre. There are probably better possible variations of this trade, so feel free of course to share thoughts on what changes might be needed for everything to be more palatable.

Just curious...do you watch the games?

[Crives]

I wouldn’t trade Jerome... his value is in the toilet and not worth including.. could still be a valuable player for us down the road.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Yeah, this isn't really a great list. Mostly wings - and we have those. I can't imagine Jerami Grant being moved.

bw mentioned Jrue. We'd have to bring Oubre off the bench, and my guess the cost would Tyler's expiring and a pile of picks. Only one more year left on that contract.

Always tough to make big changes mid-season.

That it isn't man. Although some of those wings could be multipositional defenders though. And Ibaka and Favors could play at both the 4 and the 5 if needed. Patterson and J. Johnson are both undersized 4s' too. But both are still considered very good positional defenders nevertheless. Justice Winslow is intriguing because he can really cover 1-4 pretty well defensively and on the perimeter. As for Grant, He's an important part of there core for now. But he's also still the backup power forward on their roster. So I guess it really depends upon who they prefer more as their starter for now whilst they're trying to compete. Do they resign Milsapp for their playoff run? If so, I'd look to at least make a solid offer and see if they'll bite.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/DEN/denver-nuggets/depth-chart/

Now I do also understand that to acquire him via trade, We'd likely have overpay a bit to get him. And as much as I like him for our needs, IF the price were too high, I'd be cool with waiting for him to reach 2021 free agency, Wherein he'd be unrestricted. He has a player option in 2020 as well.

As far as Jrue, I know that it's been tossed around here for awhile now. And he also has a player option for 2021 that he may exercise. I have also heard that Denver has been really coveting the idea of acquiring him. So maybe if we somehow helped to facilitate them getting him, in a 3 team trade, We could snag Grant and another piece, So that we could carry his bird rights to resign him?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=rwvnfmo . Phoenix adds a 2020 top 10 lottery protected first. Denver adds a 2022 lottery protected first.

- Denver really gets deeper and competes with adding Jrue, Baynes and Saric.

- New Orleans gets 2 great young prospects and two firsts for Jrue. Rather than watching him potentially walk for nothing in 2021, If he turns down his player option.

- Phoenix pays a hefty price by moving Baynes and a first, But gets the best possible fit defensively next to Ayton and Oubre. There are probably better possible variations of this trade, so feel free of course to share thoughts on what changes might be needed for everything to be more palatable.

Just curious...do you watch the games?

Of course I do, Whenever I can just like anyone else. So just curious, why do you ask?

[bwgood77]

That it isn't man. Although some of those wings could be multipositional defenders though. And Ibaka and Favors could play at both the 4 and the 5 if needed. Patterson and J. Johnson are both undersized 4s' too. But both are still considered very good positional defenders nevertheless. Justice Winslow is intriguing because he can really cover 1-4 pretty well defensively and on the perimeter. As for Grant, He's an important part of there core for now. But he's also still the backup power forward on their roster. So I guess it really depends upon who they prefer more as their starter for now whilst they're trying to compete. Do they resign Milsapp for their playoff run? If so, I'd look to at least make a solid offer and see if they'll bite.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/DEN/denver-nuggets/depth-chart/

Now I do also understand that to acquire him via trade, We'd likely have overpay a bit to get him. And as much as I like him for our needs, IF the price were too high, I'd be cool with waiting for him to reach 2021 free agency, Wherein he'd be unrestricted. He has a player option in 2020 as well.

As far as Jrue, I know that it's been tossed around here for awhile now. And he also has a player option for 2021 that he may exercise. I have also heard that Denver has been really coveting the idea of acquiring him. So maybe if we somehow helped to facilitate them getting him, in a 3 team trade, We could snag Grant and another piece, So that we could carry his bird rights to resign him?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=rwvnfmo . Phoenix adds a 2020 top 10 lottery protected first. Denver adds a 2022 lottery protected first.

- Denver really gets deeper and competes with adding Jrue, Baynes and Saric.

- New Orleans gets 2 great young prospects and two firsts for Jrue. Rather than watching him potentially walk for nothing in 2021, If he turns down his player option.

- Phoenix pays a hefty price by moving Baynes and a first, But gets the best possible fit defensively next to Ayton and Oubre. There are probably better possible variations of this trade, so feel free of course to share thoughts on what changes might be needed for everything to be more palatable.

Just curious...do you watch the games?

Of course I do, Whenever I can just like anyone else. So just curious, why do you ask?

I've just never seen you post about how a player did in a game, or how someone is playing lately, or what you liked about someone's play, and often times I see long trade posts during games, and then I see a lot of trades that don't make a lot of sense, so I was just wondering if you were a watcher or one that just followed things by looking at the outcomes and player stats, etc.

[Revived]

I said after the game against Sacramento but this game again showed how we basically need Oubre to be unconsciously efficient in order to win or have a chance at winning games. And that’s just not sustainable and it’s not fair as it’s asking way too much of Oubre to play like he did in this game for basically every game.

We need another player that can create their own shot. I wish Ayton was a player you could just throw the ball down to in the paint and he’ll create his own efficient shot but he’s playing more of a DeAndre Jordan/Capela type role on offense.

[bwgood77]

I said after the game against Sacramento but this game again showed how we basically need Oubre to be unconsciously efficient in order to win or have a chance at winning games. And that’s just not sustainable and it’s not fair as it’s asking way too much of Oubre to play like he did in this game for basically every game.

We need another player that can create their own shot. I wish Ayton was a player you could just throw the ball down to in the paint and he’ll create his own efficient shot but he’s playing more of a DeAndre Jordan/Capela type role on offense.

I still prefer an SSOL type offense without trying to have 3 guys play iso to win. Move the ball and shoot when open. Too many guys not good from 3 right now though. Booker hopefully got it back after this last game...hopefully Cam does too.

Our bench has blown leads. It's still why I'd start Bridges and bring Oubre in as 6th man and let him be the creator off the bench, while beefing up our starters defense.

[Revived]

I said after the game against Sacramento but this game again showed how we basically need Oubre to be unconsciously efficient in order to win or have a chance at winning games. And that’s just not sustainable and it’s not fair as it’s asking way too much of Oubre to play like he did in this game for basically every game.

We need another player that can create their own shot. I wish Ayton was a player you could just throw the ball down to in the paint and he’ll create his own efficient shot but he’s playing more of a DeAndre Jordan/Capela type role on offense.

I still prefer an SSOL type offense without trying to have 3 guys play iso to win. Move the ball and shoot when open. Too many guys not good from 3 right now though. Booker hopefully got it back after this last game...hopefully Cam does too.

Our bench has blown leads. It's still why I'd start Bridges and bring Oubre in as 6th man and let him be the creator off the bench, while beefing up our starters defense.

We don’t need iso but we need guys that can create their own. Even in the SSOL days, Nash, Amare, Joe, Barbosa could all create their own shots when needed even though Nash set them up a lot too.

I like bringing Oubre off the bench too and rather than those stupid Bayton lineups, I wish Monty had messed around with the SF rotation instead and had Bridges or Cam start at SF with Oubre in a Jason Terry/Lou Williams role off the bench.

I don’t think it will happen because it might have been something that was agreed to when he signed the short extension that he won’t be brought off the bench because that would hurt his market value when he hits free agency in two years.

[Saberestar]

I said after the game against Sacramento but this game again showed how we basically need Oubre to be unconsciously efficient in order to win or have a chance at winning games. And that’s just not sustainable and it’s not fair as it’s asking way too much of Oubre to play like he did in this game for basically every game.

We need another player that can create their own shot. I wish Ayton was a player you could just throw the ball down to in the paint and he’ll create his own efficient shot but he’s playing more of a DeAndre Jordan/Capela type role on offense.

I still prefer an SSOL type offense without trying to have 3 guys play iso to win. Move the ball and shoot when open. Too many guys not good from 3 right now though. Booker hopefully got it back after this last game...hopefully Cam does too.

Our bench has blown leads. It's still why I'd start Bridges and bring Oubre in as 6th man and let him be the creator off the bench, while beefing up our starters defense.

We don’t need iso but we need guys that can create their own. Even in the SSOL days, Nash, Amare, Joe, Barbosa could all create their own shots when needed even though Nash set them up a lot too.

I like bringing Oubre off the bench too and rather than those stupid Bayton lineups, I wish Monty had messed around with the SF rotation instead and had Bridges or Cam start at SF with Oubre in a Jason Terry/Lou Williams role off the bench.

I don’t think it will happen because it might have been something that was agreed to when he signed the short extension that he won’t be brought off the bench because that would hurt his market value when he hits free agency in two years.

At this point Oubre deserves to start for the rest of the season, he is playing really well.

Yeah, we need to find the way to add a player who can create shots for himself and teammates. The Jazz did exactly that trading for Jordan Clarkson and they are now a better team.

[lilfishi22]

I still prefer an SSOL type offense without trying to have 3 guys play iso to win. Move the ball and shoot when open. Too many guys not good from 3 right now though. Booker hopefully got it back after this last game...hopefully Cam does too.

Our bench has blown leads. It's still why I'd start Bridges and bring Oubre in as 6th man and let him be the creator off the bench, while beefing up our starters defense.

We don’t need iso but we need guys that can create their own. Even in the SSOL days, Nash, Amare, Joe, Barbosa could all create their own shots when needed even though Nash set them up a lot too.

I like bringing Oubre off the bench too and rather than those stupid Bayton lineups, I wish Monty had messed around with the SF rotation instead and had Bridges or Cam start at SF with Oubre in a Jason Terry/Lou Williams role off the bench.

I don’t think it will happen because it might have been something that was agreed to when he signed the short extension that he won’t be brought off the bench because that would hurt his market value when he hits free agency in two years.

At this point Oubre deserves to start for the rest of the season, he is playing really well.

Yeah, we need to find the way to add a player who can create shots for himself and teammates. The Jazz did exactly that trading for Jordan Clarkson and they are now a better team.

Just because a player is deserving doesn't mean they *have* to start. Lou Williams probably deserves to start too but the Clips play their best with Lou off the bench and that's what I see Oubre's role being. I think having that kind of firepower and dynamism off the bench from Oubre is exactly what our bench has been missing, especially now with Frank's scoring contribution off the table. Oubre can still finish the game and play near-starter minutes but off the bench is where I think he can make us dangerous.

It would be great if we can find that player via a trade but if not, then Oubre is who I'd want coming off the bench.