2020 NBA Draft

[clyde21]

He doesn't have to fall in any of those archetypes to be successful. The issue I have is his rawness. Raw centers take awhile and most people lack patience

if I am taking a C top 3 or top 5 one of those is what i am aiming for, and if i don't think he can be that, i'm looking elsewhere first.

[HeadtopChunes]

While this draft isn't loaded with polished guys outside of the PG position. There is a lot of wings who have potential 3/D potential down the road. This could be a draft that builds up a lot of rosters in 3-4 years in terms of role players.

Could end up being a good draft outside the top 10 tbh

Especially since that’s where the best FOs usually are

[King Ken]

While this draft isn't loaded with polished guys outside of the PG position. There is a lot of wings who have potential 3/D potential down the road. This could be a draft that builds up a lot of rosters in 3-4 years in terms of role players.

Could end up being a good draft outside the top 10 tbh

Especially since that’s where the best FOs usually are

Also the teams where they have the minutes and the roles.

[clyde21]

it's a decently deep draft (always depends on who's in/out for me), the problem is the top-5/10 really...but I like the teens range, i think there will be good value there that's why i'm hoping Myers trades down

[Ruzious]

Wiseman kinda reminds me of Whiteside without the immaturity. Whiteside coming out of school wasn't mentally ready for pro basketball, but he was a great pure talent. A mature Whiteside could have been better than Cousins (Sacramento picked both in the same draft). Still, Wiseman's got a lot to prove, and in a normal draft is he a top 5 pick? Probably not.

[Illmatic12]

This was my post 2 posts before I said what I said about Wiseman

"I was on the Cole going #1 train and ended up hopping off. Then I jumped on the Edwards going #1 train and I'm hopping off. I think Im hopping off the 2020 draft train all together haha."

I’m with you.. don’t like the draft either.


Hate using this term but I think there’s a bit of an anti-Wiseman “circle jerk” going on that isn’t based in reality. It’s based on this imaginary idea floating around in the internet-scout-world ether that NBA teams are going to pick apart Wiseman’s flaws while simultaneously ignoring the flaws in all the other prospects.

That’s not how it’s going to work. Once they stack all these guys up next to each other and compare pros and cons, teams are going to grade Wiseman as one of the best options at the top of the draft.

there is no 'anti-Wiseman circle jerk', some people just don't believe a big like him is valuable enough to take that high, it's not a big deal if you have a different philosophy.

There’s definitely been a tendency for people to claim that Wiseman’s potential is capped or he is locked into a certain “archetype” .. while also claiming that other prospects have more room to rise above the archetypes they’re currently in.

If Wiseman fits the Drummond archetype fine, I say Anthony Edwards fits the Dion Waiters archetype. Which player would you rather draft, Andre or Dion? Drummond at least produces a positive BPM.

Like I’m not saying anyone has to love Wiseman as a prospect but at least keep it consistent with how you grade him vs everyone else.

[clyde21]

I’m with you.. don’t like the draft either.


Hate using this term but I think there’s a bit of an anti-Wiseman “circle jerk” going on that isn’t based in reality. It’s based on this imaginary idea floating around in the internet-scout-world ether that NBA teams are going to pick apart Wiseman’s flaws while simultaneously ignoring the flaws in all the other prospects.

That’s not how it’s going to work. Once they stack all these guys up next to each other and compare pros and cons, teams are going to grade Wiseman as one of the best options at the top of the draft.

there is no 'anti-Wiseman circle jerk', some people just don't believe a big like him is valuable enough to take that high, it's not a big deal if you have a different philosophy.

There’s definitely been a tendency for people to claim that Wiseman’s potential is capped or he is locked into a certain “archetype” .. while also claiming that other prospects have more room to rise above the archetypes they’re currently in.

If Wiseman fits the Drummond archetype fine, I say Anthony Edwards fits the Dion Waiters archetype. Which player would you rather draft, Andre or Dion? Drummond at least produces a positive BPM.

Like I’m not saying anyone has to love Wiseman as a prospect but at least keep it consistent with how you grade him vs everyone else.

if I agree with you that Edwards = Waiters then obviously Wiseman, that's not really the question here tho?

[HeadtopChunes]

If Tre Jones can now suddenly shoot consistently would you take him over Mannion ?

[The-Power]

Oturu killed the Michigan interior defense last night.

[Roddy B for 3]

Wiseman walks into the NBA better than Kevin Looney.

Kevin Looney tearing his shoulder in last year's finals might have cost GSW a title.

Do the math if James Wiseman (on a cheap contract) is worth a #1 pick to GSW.

GSW with Wiseman next year:
Wiseman/WCS/Looney
Green/Iggy/Pascall
Thompson/Iggy/GR3
Russell/Thompson/Lee
Curry/Russell

Playoff rotation is extremely dangerous and probably a top 5 title contender.

[Roddy B for 3]

Wiseman kinda reminds me of Whiteside without the immaturity. Whiteside coming out of school wasn't mentally ready for pro basketball, but he was a great pure talent. A mature Whiteside could have been better than Cousins (Sacramento picked both in the same draft). Still, Wiseman's got a lot to prove, and in a normal draft is he a top 5 pick? Probably not.

From my eyes this comparison is fine except, Whiteside runs up and down the court like a deer, Whiteside looks mad he has to get up and down and is one of the last players back on both sides each time up and down the court.

Wiseman also moves more in half court offense (cutting, looking for post position, setting screens and rolling (even if he knows he's nothing but a distraction on that play), on defense, Wiseman hedges and gets out further from the rim than Whiteside.

Wiseman and Whiteside, physically look alot alike, but Whiteside has an awful motor where I saw Wiseman (at McDonald's all American and his time at Memohis, looked high motor, from my pov).

[Roddy B for 3]

If Tre Jones can now suddenly shoot consistently would you take him over Mannion ?

For me, Tre Jones is obviously a lotto guy with a 40% 3pt shoot on 4+ attempts a game.

Mannion I haven't scouted deeply, but looks mid to late 1st to me.

[HeadtopChunes]

If Tre Jones can now suddenly shoot consistently would you take him over Mannion ?

For me, Tre Jones is obviously a lotto guy with a 40% 3pt shoot on 4+ attempts a game.

Mannion I haven't scouted deeply, but looks mid to late 1st to me.

His jumper looks much improved to me which was his only real glaring weakness

Read on Twitter

I’m not sure about a high celing or anything but Tre could be a really good starter at least with his great defense, playmaking and the ability to shoot

[Ruzious]

Wiseman kinda reminds me of Whiteside without the immaturity. Whiteside coming out of school wasn't mentally ready for pro basketball, but he was a great pure talent. A mature Whiteside could have been better than Cousins (Sacramento picked both in the same draft). Still, Wiseman's got a lot to prove, and in a normal draft is he a top 5 pick? Probably not.

From my eyes this comparison is fine except, Whiteside runs up and down the court like a deer, Whiteside looks mad he has to get up and down and is one of the last players back on both sides each time up and down the court.

Wiseman also moves more in half court offense (cutting, looking for post position, setting screens and rolling (even if he knows he's nothing but a distraction on that play), on defense, Wiseman hedges and gets out further from the rim than Whiteside.

Wiseman and Whiteside, physically look alot alike, but Whiteside has an awful motor where I saw Wiseman (at McDonald's all American and his time at Memohis, looked high motor, from my pov).

I agree with you, and I think that relates to Whiteside's immaturity. If he had a good attitude, I think he could have become a top 15 player in the NBA.

[nolang1]

Wiseman kinda reminds me of Whiteside without the immaturity. Whiteside coming out of school wasn't mentally ready for pro basketball, but he was a great pure talent. A mature Whiteside could have been better than Cousins (Sacramento picked both in the same draft). Still, Wiseman's got a lot to prove, and in a normal draft is he a top 5 pick? Probably not.

From my eyes this comparison is fine except, Whiteside runs up and down the court like a deer, Whiteside looks mad he has to get up and down and is one of the last players back on both sides each time up and down the court.

Wiseman also moves more in half court offense (cutting, looking for post position, setting screens and rolling (even if he knows he's nothing but a distraction on that play), on defense, Wiseman hedges and gets out further from the rim than Whiteside.

Wiseman and Whiteside, physically look alot alike, but Whiteside has an awful motor where I saw Wiseman (at McDonald's all American and his time at Memohis, looked high motor, from my pov).

I agree with you, and I think that relates to Whiteside's immaturity. If he had a good attitude, I think he could have become a top 15 player in the NBA.

Yeah and this is what the Wiseman stuff essentially boils down to: there is a pretty simple blueprint for how a player with his tools is supposed to play for the benefit of his team, the players who do this can still get rewarded with max contracts/All-NBA recognition despite not posting huge ppg totals, yet we're supposed to believe that he's too stupid or uncoachable to realize this despite the fact that he's been playing this way in college and the high school all-star games.

I definitely agree with you that a more mature Whiteside is just a totally different player akin to Simmons or Fultz without three-point shooting issues. The immaturity is him thinking that setting screens or sprinting the floor or sticking to the defensive scheme is beneath him and setting out to get his numbers instead.

i get why people want to go the Wiseman route, heck I'm kinda/sorta leaning that way for the Warriors only because I have 0 faith in Myers being able to maneuver the top 5 so getting Wiseman wouldn't be the worst thing because he's relatively safe, at the very least it's a + asset we can always flip if we need to

but again theoretically speaking where does Wiseman fit on this list? really this list of C types that I feel do deserve to be picked this high if they develop into this archetype:

- the defensive anchor - Gobert type defensive anchor in the middle
- the elite offensive player - KAT type multi-level elite offensive scorer
- the elite playmaker - Jokic type that can run offense
- the all around C - Embiid type that can be a defensive and offensive force

and then you have the Drummond/Ayton category...this is probably where I think Wiseman lands tbh...which is obviously fine but if I'm picking this high I'd rather aim higher.

God this is not rocket science. Wiseman averaged 18+ rebounds and 5+ blocks per 40 minutes and wasn't running around committing a bunch of dumb fouls. Should be pretty obvious that he's shown more potential as a defensive anchor than these guards who are shooting in the mid 30s from 3 and have issues finishing at the rim against NCAA competition have shown as three-level scorers in the NBA. He surely has the potential to be more effective offensively than Gobert (runs the floor better, is a threat to make a basket from outside 5 feet, better free throw shooter) to make up for not being as dominant a defender.

[zimpy27]

i get why people want to go the Wiseman route, heck I'm kinda/sorta leaning that way for the Warriors only because I have 0 faith in Myers being able to maneuver the top 5 so getting Wiseman wouldn't be the worst thing because he's relatively safe, at the very least it's a + asset we can always flip if we need to

but again theoretically speaking where does Wiseman fit on this list? really this list of C types that I feel do deserve to be picked this high if they develop into this archetype:

- the defensive anchor - Gobert type defensive anchor in the middle
- the elite offensive player - KAT type multi-level elite offensive scorer
- the elite playmaker - Jokic type that can run offense
- the all around C - Embiid type that can be a defensive and offensive force

and then you have the Drummond/Ayton category...this is probably where I think Wiseman lands tbh...which is obviously fine but if I'm picking this high I'd rather aim higher.

Nah, stay strong in your opinion.

Picking Wiseman is a mistake. He looks like he'll be somewhere around Hassan Whiteside, JaVale McGee, Nerlens Noel, Clint Capela.

[nolang1]

i get why people want to go the Wiseman route, heck I'm kinda/sorta leaning that way for the Warriors only because I have 0 faith in Myers being able to maneuver the top 5 so getting Wiseman wouldn't be the worst thing because he's relatively safe, at the very least it's a + asset we can always flip if we need to

but again theoretically speaking where does Wiseman fit on this list? really this list of C types that I feel do deserve to be picked this high if they develop into this archetype:

- the defensive anchor - Gobert type defensive anchor in the middle
- the elite offensive player - KAT type multi-level elite offensive scorer
- the elite playmaker - Jokic type that can run offense
- the all around C - Embiid type that can be a defensive and offensive force

and then you have the Drummond/Ayton category...this is probably where I think Wiseman lands tbh...which is obviously fine but if I'm picking this high I'd rather aim higher.

Nah, stay strong in your opinion.

Picking Wiseman is a mistake. He looks like he'll be somewhere around Hassan Whiteside, JaVale McGee, Nerlens Noel, Clint Capela.

Capela is not yet in his prime and has been the 3rd-best player on a 50+ win team the last 3 years. He's a top 5 player from his draft class. If you get a Clint Capela, an above-average starter on a good team, anywhere in this draft that's a good outcome.

[clyde21]

i get why people want to go the Wiseman route, heck I'm kinda/sorta leaning that way for the Warriors only because I have 0 faith in Myers being able to maneuver the top 5 so getting Wiseman wouldn't be the worst thing because he's relatively safe, at the very least it's a + asset we can always flip if we need to

but again theoretically speaking where does Wiseman fit on this list? really this list of C types that I feel do deserve to be picked this high if they develop into this archetype:

- the defensive anchor - Gobert type defensive anchor in the middle
- the elite offensive player - KAT type multi-level elite offensive scorer
- the elite playmaker - Jokic type that can run offense
- the all around C - Embiid type that can be a defensive and offensive force

and then you have the Drummond/Ayton category...this is probably where I think Wiseman lands tbh...which is obviously fine but if I'm picking this high I'd rather aim higher.

Nah, stay strong in your opinion.

Picking Wiseman is a mistake. He looks like he'll be somewhere around Hassan Whiteside, JaVale McGee, Nerlens Noel, Clint Capela.

Capela is not yet in his prime and has been the 3rd-best player on a 50+ win team the last 3 years. He's a top 5 player from his draft class. If you get a Clint Capela, an above-average starter on a good team, anywhere in this draft that's a good outcome.

you're using hindsight, that's not how it works, in a redraft Brogdon goes top 5 doesn't mean he should've went top 5.

[zimpy27]

i get why people want to go the Wiseman route, heck I'm kinda/sorta leaning that way for the Warriors only because I have 0 faith in Myers being able to maneuver the top 5 so getting Wiseman wouldn't be the worst thing because he's relatively safe, at the very least it's a + asset we can always flip if we need to

but again theoretically speaking where does Wiseman fit on this list? really this list of C types that I feel do deserve to be picked this high if they develop into this archetype:

- the defensive anchor - Gobert type defensive anchor in the middle
- the elite offensive player - KAT type multi-level elite offensive scorer
- the elite playmaker - Jokic type that can run offense
- the all around C - Embiid type that can be a defensive and offensive force

and then you have the Drummond/Ayton category...this is probably where I think Wiseman lands tbh...which is obviously fine but if I'm picking this high I'd rather aim higher.

Nah, stay strong in your opinion.

Picking Wiseman is a mistake. He looks like he'll be somewhere around Hassan Whiteside, JaVale McGee, Nerlens Noel, Clint Capela.

Capela is not yet in his prime and has been the 3rd-best player on a 50+ win team the last 3 years. He's a top 5 player from his draft class. If you get a Clint Capela, an above-average starter on a good team, anywhere in this draft that's a good outcome.

That's the best possible outcome and it's a disappointment for a current NBA top 3 pick.

[nolang1]

Nah, stay strong in your opinion.

Picking Wiseman is a mistake. He looks like he'll be somewhere around Hassan Whiteside, JaVale McGee, Nerlens Noel, Clint Capela.

Capela is not yet in his prime and has been the 3rd-best player on a 50+ win team the last 3 years. He's a top 5 player from his draft class. If you get a Clint Capela, an above-average starter on a good team, anywhere in this draft that's a good outcome.

you're using hindsight, that's not how it works, in a redraft Brogdon goes top 5 doesn't mean he should've went top 5.

No I'm just using my brain and actually examining how this 'archetype' of player actually does in the modern NBA rather than reflexively going 'durr if he doesn't shoot threes or pass like Jokic he's worthless.' Even players like Drummond and Whiteside outperformed their draft slot.

The Brogdon point is very weak and simplistic (par for the course) since about half the players selected in his draft are still younger than he was before he had ever played a single NBA minute; even someone like Zubac is currently having a better season than Brogdon's rookie year while being 22 as opposed to 24. Additionally, whatever 'archetype' you want to place Brogdon in (combo guards, 4-year college players) I would guarantee has a higher bust rate than the pool of guys who have some athleticism and coordination to go with being taller/longer than 95+ percent of NBA players.