Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[Ruzious]

Ben Simmons has his warts, but he's an incredible player who is in a situation that doesn't play to his strengths at all. Surround him with shooters and he's Giannis Lite

And it took Giannis years to feel comfortable shooting jumpers.

[DCZards]

I think we can all agree that the team we are going to have next year has worlds more potential than most of the teams wall and beal have had.

"Potential" to do what? When?

If what you mean is that the current roster, plus Wall, would be likely to make noise in the weak Eastern Conference, I'd have to disagree.

Of course, we'll also have 2 rookies, & we'll have Wall back. But, at this point each of those roster slots is an unknown production-wise.

What I do think is true is that it's more fun to contemplate the Wizards future now than it has been for many, many years.

I guess it's according to what you mean by "make noise." If making noise means being a top 2-3 team in the ECF a year from now. Well, that's very unlikely. But if making noise means being in the top 6-7 in the east next season. Then I think that's a possibility.

But, most importantly, this team has the "potential" to continue to get better so that maybe 2-3 years from now with the development of youngins' like Rui, Bonga, Bryant, Brown, Wagner and Mathews--and the right draft picks and free agent pick ups--the Zards might be in position to make real noise in the ECF.

Of course, since none of us has a crystal ball there is no way of knowing any of this for sure. But, as you say, it's a lot more fun to dream about--and debate--the Zards future than it's been in the past.

[Ruzious]

FYI - Anthony Edwards is averaging 19ppg/3apg on 51.5 TS% through 15 college games. He’s led the Georgia Bulldogs to 9th place ..in the SEC


I wouldn’t base any rebuilding master plan around hitting a homerun in this draft class. None of these prospects look to be special franchise-changing talents.

Honestly, I rate him as a mid first round type talent in an average draft. He's a shot-jacker and a lazy defender. He could improve, but that's his inclination right now. He'll have to change the way he approaches the game to become a winning type of player.

[Illmatic12]

FYI - Anthony Edwards is averaging 19ppg/3apg on 51.5 TS% through 15 college games. He’s led the Georgia Bulldogs to 9th place ..in the SEC


I wouldn’t base any rebuilding master plan around hitting a homerun in this draft class. None of these prospects look to be special franchise-changing talents.

Honestly, I rate him as a mid first round type talent in an average draft. He's a shot-jacker and a lazy defender. He could improve, but that's his inclination right now. He'll have to change the way he approaches the game to become a winning type of player.

I think situation will be everything for him. NBA talent evaluators are always attracted to prospects like Edwards .. you had guys like Dion Waiters , Tyreke Evans and so on who were all the rage when they came out. But if your team doesn’t have the proper structure then adding one of these ball-hoggish guards can sour things pretty quickly.

[gambitx777]

To be a better team than what wall and beal have had around them so far

I think we can all agree that the team we are going to have next year has worlds more potential than most of the teams wall and beal have had.

"Potential" to do what? When?

If what you mean is that the current roster, plus Wall, would be likely to make noise in the weak Eastern Conference, I'd have to disagree.

Of course, we'll also have 2 rookies, & we'll have Wall back. But, at this point each of those roster slots is an unknown production-wise.

What I do think is true is that it's more fun to contemplate the Wizards future now than it has been for many, many years.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[bsilver]

To be a better team than what wall and beal have had around them so far

I think we can all agree that the team we are going to have next year has worlds more potential than most of the teams wall and beal have had.

"Potential" to do what? When?

If what you mean is that the current roster, plus Wall, would be likely to make noise in the weak Eastern Conference, I'd have to disagree.

Of course, we'll also have 2 rookies, & we'll have Wall back. But, at this point each of those roster slots is an unknown production-wise.

What I do think is true is that it's more fun to contemplate the Wizards future now than it has been for many, many years.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Maybe the problem is Wall and Beal. Their best year was 2016/7 with 49 wins. The supporting cast was Bogdonovic, Gortat, Markief Morris, Oubre, Otto Porter, Satoransky, and even Jason Smith was great during their winning streak.

A good supporting cast is not enough. Assuming Wall his untradeable, they need to either:
trade Bradley Beal and/or
hit a home run in the draft

[gambitx777]

Well I think Beal and wall arnt nessasarily the issue and I don't think wall is untradable if he comes back and plays decent. Beal is a good first option but shouldn't have the ball in his hands as much as he does when wall is out. If wall busy in to team ball. And comes in dishing assists and getting to the foul line and no hero balling. Then Beal will settle in and we can go off the strength of the rest of the team.

To be a better team than what wall and beal have had around them so far

"Potential" to do what? When?

If what you mean is that the current roster, plus Wall, would be likely to make noise in the weak Eastern Conference, I'd have to disagree.

Of course, we'll also have 2 rookies, & we'll have Wall back. But, at this point each of those roster slots is an unknown production-wise.

What I do think is true is that it's more fun to contemplate the Wizards future now than it has been for many, many years.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Maybe the problem is Wall and Beal. Their best year was 2016/7 with 49 wins. The supporting cast was Bogdonovic, Gortat, Markief Morris, Oubre, Otto Porter, Satoransky, and even Jason Smith was great during their winning streak.

A good supporting cast is not enough. Assuming Wall his untradeable, they need to either:
trade Bradley Beal and/or
hit a home run in the draft

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

I think we can all agree that the team we are going to have next year has worlds more potential than most of the teams wall and beal have had.

"Potential" to do what? When?

If what you mean is that the current roster, plus Wall, would be likely to make noise in the weak Eastern Conference, I'd have to disagree.

Of course, we'll also have 2 rookies, & we'll have Wall back. But, at this point each of those roster slots is an unknown production-wise.

What I do think is true is that it's more fun to contemplate the Wizards future now than it has been for many, many years.

I guess it's according to what you mean by "make noise." If making noise means being a top 2-3 team in the ECF a year from now. Well, that's very unlikely. But if making noise means being in the top 6-7 in the east next season. Then I think that's a possibility.

But, most importantly, this team has the "potential" to continue to get better so that maybe 2-3 years from now with the development of youngins' like Rui, Bonga, Bryant, Brown, Wagner and Mathews--and the right draft picks and free agent pick ups--the Zards might be in position to make real noise in the ECF.

Of course, since none of us has a crystal ball there is no way of knowing any of this for sure. But, as you say, it's a lot more fun to dream about--and debate--the Zards future than it's been in the past.

That's all fair enough, Zards. My problem, I suppose, is that I want to contend for a title, & I absolutely do not see any chance of that whatever during "the Wall/Beal era."

Mostly that's because of the enormous 8-ball behind which Ernie put us (for starters, imagine this team with 2 good draft choices from each of 2015, 2016, & 2017).

But, along with that is the fact that for the next several years it is really hard to imagine competing with Milwaukee, Boston, Philly, Miami or Toronto -- & maybe that list should include Indy as well, or even Brooklyn & Orlando both of which are on the upward trend. Of course some of those teams will stumble; no doubt about it. But... how many?

&, if that's true, if we can't contend for a title in the Wall/Beal era... well, then, I'm ready to do a real rebuild so that we can contend in the post Wall/Beal era!

Now, that's just me. Others may be happy to be respectable, get into the playoffs, & hope to -- as Ernie used to put it -- "get hot at the right time." My problem with that is simple: it's a myth that you can win a title by getting hot at the right time.

You can only win by being a better team than the teams you play. & that's what looks impossible to me during the Wall/Beal era.

Edit: still... I'm having more fun being a Wizards fan with all these kids around than I have been in years. I guess that's another reason that I want more of them!

[DCZards]

PIF, I believe all of us want to see a title contender in DC…and not just a respectable, playoff-bound team. But here’s the thing: I think your concept of building a team primarily through the draft and young players is not the only way to build a contender. In fact, I’d suggest that it’s the exception (GS, Philly & Milwaukee come to mind) rather than the rule.

When I look around the NBA I see a Toronto team that won a championship by renting Kawhi for a year; a Laker team that has become an instant contender by adding Lebron and AD the last two years; and a Houston team that hopes to win a ‘ship on the backs of two former OKC players.

Two years ago, heck even last year, the Clippers weren’t even in shouting distance of contending for a title. Well, a year later and they are one of the top 3-4 teams in the NBA thanks to the addition of Kawhi and PG13.

Bottom line is that with a little luck an NBA team can go from zero to 60 pretty quickly.

I see building a good team over the next couple of years and then enticing another all-star to join Wall & Beal in DC as a much more plausible path to the Zards becoming a contender...sooner rather than later.

If the Zards can put a winning team on the court and the franchise shows it has truly turned a corner with Tommy and our beefed-up front office, then I can easily see a top player or two seriously considering a high-profile, basketball loving town like DC a realistic destination.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

PIF, I believe all of us want to see a title contender in DC…and not just a respectable, playoff-bound team. But here’s the thing: I think your concept of building a team primarily through the draft and young players is not the only way to build a contender. In fact, I’d suggest that it’s the exception (GS, Philly & Milwaukee come to mind) rather than the rule.

When I look around the NBA I see a Toronto team that won a championship by renting Kawhi for a year; a Laker team that has become an instant contender by adding Lebron and AD the last two years; and a Houston team that hopes to win a ‘ship on the backs of two former OKC players.

Two years ago, heck even last year, the Clippers weren’t even in shouting distance of contending for a title. Well, a year later and they are one of the top 3-4 teams in the NBA thanks to the addition of Kawhi and PG13.

Bottom line is that with a little luck an NBA team can go from zero to 60 pretty quickly.

I see building a good team over the next couple of years and then enticing another all-star to join Wall & Beal in DC as a much more plausible path to the Zards becoming a contender...sooner rather than later.

If the Zards can put a winning team on the court and the franchise shows it has truly turned a corner with Tommy and our beefed-up front office, then I can easily see a top player or two seriously considering a high-profile, basketball loving town like DC a realistic destination.

DCZards, for the first time I'm in violent agreement with you!

By next season the Wizards could field a 50-win team, even with Brooks as coach. They've already set the foundation. Ernie's approach wasn't working. LIKE THE REDSKINS the Wizards have had a TOTAL paradigm shift. They pretty much cleaned house by razing personnel/organizational approach.

Honestly, all the Wizard need to do IMHO is draft Wiseman and sign one free agent like healthy Andre Igoudala. One swing player who can give what Ariza did WHEN THE WIZARDS swept Toronto in the playoffs. They could also use a bigger veteran PF like Nene.

I think the Wizards should look at Karl Anthony Towns. There's a deal in there somewhere.

I do LIKE AND AGREE WITH PIF on building through the draft. CLARKE would have been a better pick than Rui Hachimura. In a trade down. But the good news is I love what the Wizards are doing with young guys like Brown Jr, Bonga, Wagner, and Bryant. They've got KEEPERS in McRae, Bertans, and Payton II (unless, the price is too high).

I would keep Bertans; but reality is that the Wizards could do well traded any and all of Bertans, Beal, Hachimura, THOMAS, and MAHINMI for long-term assets. If Beal is to be their franchise, then they need to package Wall with a heap of draft picks. I see what the kid out of Kansas is doing a PG for Charlotte, now that Kemba Walker is gone. He's really. He and Spencer Dinwiddie and Fred Van Vleet (sp?) and the young dude with the Lakers who played for GS (I'm in a hurry--PG out of Duke who's a pure shooter, name escapes me); they are WINNING PLAYERS who I'd just as soon have as Wall.

On rookie and inexpensive deals.

The Wizards are DEFINITELY heading in the right direction.

Kudos to Tommy Shepherd, to all the ancillary staff upgrades, and to Ted Leonsis. THIS SEASON is fun! I think the future is certainly brighter...

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Looks to me the best trade option for Wall would involve the Knicks. #1 they don't have the smartest front office. #2 they really want to add a star player. #3 they don't seem to have a whole lot going on at PG. #4 They can afford him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Looks to me the best trade option for Wall would involve the Knicks. #1 they don't have the smartest front office. #2 they really want to add a star player. #3 they don't seem to have a whole lot going on at PG. #4 They can afford him.

Try this on http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine


Wizards send John Wall to the Knicks
Knicks send Julius Randle, Taj Gibson, Elfrid Payton



Very simple. Wall's got 4 years remaining. Each of these players have 2 years remaining.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Looks to me the best trade option for Wall would involve the Knicks. #1 they don't have the smartest front office. #2 they really want to add a star player. #3 they don't seem to have a whole lot going on at PG. #4 They can afford him.

Try this on http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine


Wizards send John Wall to the Knicks
Knicks send Julius Randle, Taj Gibson, Elfrid Payton



Very simple. Wall's got 4 years remaining. Each of these players have 2 years remaining.

I would think they'd want to keep Randle... And I think he's got 3 years. Looks like you can swap him out for Portis though.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7271005

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Looks to me the best trade option for Wall would involve the Knicks. #1 they don't have the smartest front office. #2 they really want to add a star player. #3 they don't seem to have a whole lot going on at PG. #4 They can afford him.

Try this on http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine


Wizards send John Wall to the Knicks
Knicks send Julius Randle, Taj Gibson, Elfrid Payton



Very simple. Wall's got 4 years remaining. Each of these players have 2 years remaining.

I would think they'd want to keep Randle... And I think he's got 3 years. Looks like you can swap him out for Portis though.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7271005

Uh yeah no.

[badinage]

Ben Simmons makes so much sense on the Wizards.

Simmons with Bertāns, Mathews, Bryant, Wagner, Brown Jr., McRae, and even Hachimura? He’s MADE for a team like that.

Give Philly: Beal and Wall and take back Simmons and whatever else is needed to make the salaries work.

Beal and Wall are ideal partners for Embiid and Harris and Horford and Richardson et. al.

[dckingsfan]

February 6th isn't that far away... I wonder if this is going to be a blockbuster trade deadline or a fizzle?

[dckingsfan]

Ben Simmons makes so much sense on the Wizards.

Simmons with Bertāns, Mathews, Bryant, Wagner, Brown Jr., McRae, and even Hachimura? He’s MADE for a team like that.

Give Philly: Beal and Wall and take back Simmons and whatever else is needed to make the salaries work.

Beal and Wall are ideal partners for Embiid and Harris and Horford and Richardson et. al.

It would make sense to me as well... just that there isn't a trade that works... You can't keep Harris, Horford, Embiid and add Wall and Beal.

[queridiculo]

Ben Simmons makes so much sense on the Wizards.

Simmons with Bertāns, Mathews, Bryant, Wagner, Brown Jr., McRae, and even Hachimura? He’s MADE for a team like that.

Give Philly: Beal and Wall and take back Simmons and whatever else is needed to make the salaries work.

Beal and Wall are ideal partners for Embiid and Harris and Horford and Richardson et. al.

This trade would have to happen in the offseason since Beal signed an extension this year.

For next league year Wall and Beal combine for $69.5 million, so there is almost certainly no way for the Sixers to keep Embiid, Harris, Horford and Richardson together.

It's either Horford or Harris packaged with Simmons, and I very much doubt that Phily is going to part with a 27 year old Harris no matter how overpaid he is when they have a 34 year old Horford eating up $27.5 million.

So, Horford and Simmons for Wall and Beal it is, and you know what, I could live with that and the Sixers would almost certainly be elevated to serious contender status with Wall, Beal, Harris and Embiid as their core.

What makes a deal even more compelling for the Sixers are the bird rights Washington has for Bertans, the Wizards could make a compelling argument for exchanging Richards along with say Zaire Smith or Thybulle and salary filler as part of a sign and trade.

Embiid's consistent struggles with health might actually force a hand here because who knows how much longer you can count on him remaining relatively healthy.

Now, what I am struggling with is how you are building a championship contender with Simmons as THE guy.

What would a team that indulges him as a point guard look like?

[pcbothwel]

Ben Simmons makes so much sense on the Wizards.

Simmons with Bertāns, Mathews, Bryant, Wagner, Brown Jr., McRae, and even Hachimura? He’s MADE for a team like that.

Give Philly: Beal and Wall and take back Simmons and whatever else is needed to make the salaries work.

Beal and Wall are ideal partners for Embiid and Harris and Horford and Richardson et. al.

It would make sense to me as well... just that there isn't a trade that works... You can't keep Harris, Horford, Embiid and add Wall and Beal.

Yeah... No trade there.

But a healthy Wall, Bryant, Rui, top 6 pick, plus 2021 unprotected pick for Simmons and Horford would save them money and be hard to match.

Wall
Richardson
Thybulle
Harris
Embiid

Bench: Rui, Bryant, Haliburton extends their window and the pieces compliment better

Ish
Beal
Brown
Simmons
Horford

Bench: Bonga, Wagner, Bertans

What team can offer a better combo of win now pieces and young assets/picks without completely dismantling their team?

I see Atlanta, Chicago, and OKC as legit possibilities I guess

[payitforward]

PIF, I believe all of us want to see a title contender in DC…and not just a respectable, playoff-bound team. But here’s the thing: I think your concept of building a team primarily through the draft and young players is not the only way to build a contender. In fact, I’d suggest that it’s the exception (GS, Philly & Milwaukee come to mind) rather than the rule.

When I look around the NBA I see a Toronto team that won a championship by renting Kawhi for a year; a Laker team that has become an instant contender by adding Lebron and AD the last two years; and a Houston team that hopes to win a ‘ship on the backs of two former OKC players.

Two years ago, heck even last year, the Clippers weren’t even in shouting distance of contending for a title. Well, a year later and they are one of the top 3-4 teams in the NBA thanks to the addition of Kawhi and PG13.

Bottom line is that with a little luck an NBA team can go from zero to 60 pretty quickly.

I see building a good team over the next couple of years and then enticing another all-star to join Wall & Beal in DC as a much more plausible path to the Zards becoming a contender...sooner rather than later.

If the Zards can put a winning team on the court and the franchise shows it has truly turned a corner with Tommy and our beefed-up front office, then I can easily see a top player or two seriously considering a high-profile, basketball loving town like DC a realistic destination.

You may well be right. OTOH, in 2014-15, the first year GSW won the title, over 53% of their season minutes were played by guys they had drafted. We've never come anywhere near that %. Their 4 guys w/ the highest number of minutes that year were all drafted by GS -- Curry, Thompson, Barnes & Green. This year, 12 of the players on the Celtics are with their first team. Wizards? 5 players.

But, here is what I think is the key point: in a sports league with a salary cap, it seems obvious that you can only be really good by having a significant number of minutes played by guys who are better than you would expect someone at their salary level to be.

Overall, there are only 2 categories of players of whom that's true:

1) real superstars (ala LeBron, Michael, Giannis, Kawhi) -- it's true of them, b/c maximum salaries make it true.
2) guys on rookie contracts (or, less often, on 2d contracts negotiated before they showed their real peak potentials).

If on the other hand, what you have is a 30 year old player coming off a serious injury who has a super-max contract for the next 3 years but was not a real superstar even at his best, you might as well forget about winning a title. Add a second guy who is also outstanding but not a true superstar yet earns a max salary...? Not happening.

Could I be wrong? Of course! But I'd like to see a counter-example from the past, & I can't come up with one.

Edit: & that's why I can see us becoming respectable again in the Wall/Beal era, a team like we were for a stretch of 3 out of 4 years starting in 2013-14, but that's it.