Regular Season Game 40: Orlando Magic (18-21) at Sacramento Kings (15-24) - 10pm ET

[drsd]

All road wins are good wins. But this was a statement win. Great job!

[CarraT]

Embiid is amazing, top 10 player. But constantly injured.

Simmons is nowhere near a franchise player. He's been overrated everywhere for so long. Also doesn't take shots outside of 3 feet. They also both don't fit together. Simmons is a PF playing PG.

They are obviously the better team with a chance to potentially win it all, but they've been a huge letdown this year so far.

They are young. I don´t understand the argument "look at the sixers they still haven´t won anything". Nobody is expecting them to win it all while their best players are 25 & 23. They are in a very good position to be a contender at least the next 8 years. Something we can only dream of.

I just don't agree with this at all. We very clearly disagree completely on the potential of Simmons. I think he hurts them more than helps. If he gets traded and they bring in a PG that can shoot, then we can agree. I think a Russell or Beal or Paul helps them much more.

Don´t care about what you think about him, at least he has a lot of value around the league and could be traded for another high quality player like for example Beal. Another thing we can only dream of.
Keep making jokes about the sixers and that they haven´t won anything. They still are in a very much better position then we are.

[The Real Dalic]

They are young. I don´t understand the argument "look at the sixers they still haven´t won anything". Nobody is expecting them to win it all while their best players are 25 & 23. They are in a very good position to be a contender at least the next 8 years. Something we can only dream of.

I just don't agree with this at all. We very clearly disagree completely on the potential of Simmons. I think he hurts them more than helps. If he gets traded and they bring in a PG that can shoot, then we can agree. I think a Russell or Beal or Paul helps them much more.

Don´t care about what you think about him, at least he has a lot of value around the league and could be traded for another high quality player like for example Beal. Another thing we can only dream of.
Keep making jokes about the sixers and that they haven´t won anything. They still are in a very much better position then we are.

They are better, I never said anything like that. You attributed that to me.

But people have to come up with something more than "T4NK!!1!" for all of our problems. It can't just be about acquiring picks. Because it's more likely you stay at the bottom than not.

Most elite teams started with smart drafting, good trades, and savvy signings. Not just throwing a dart at the board with number 1 picks every year until you find the guy.

[MagicFrenchie]

This team is starting to get in a sort of a rythm

really hope we face the celtics in the playoffs even if its a little bit early, think we could matchup well with them

[The Real Dalic]

This team is starting to get in a sort of a rythm

really hope we face the celtics in the playoffs even if its a little bit early, think we could matchup well with them

What sucks is that if you beat the Hawks a couple of weeks ago and beat the Suns last game, we go from 19-21 to 21-19. That would be a respectable record while also challenging for the 5th and 6th seed.

[Bergmaniac]

People on this board always find something to whine about. This was a good win. And for once we did it by getting to the line much more often than the other team, which is a very good sign.

[MagicFrenchie]

This team is starting to get in a sort of a rythm

really hope we face the celtics in the playoffs even if its a little bit early, think we could matchup well with them

What sucks is that if you beat the Hawks a couple of weeks ago and beat the Suns last game, we go from 19-21 to 21-19. That would be a respectable record while also challenging for the 5th and 6th seed.

still along way to go IMO

[rcklsscognition]

This offense late in games is brutal. Completely predictable and absolutely terrible.

Panic get the ball to Evan
Run a soft screen from Vooch
.....
Bad Result

Fournier scored maybe 8 in a row or close to it to close out the game off Vuc screens. No one shoots 100%. Fournier's turnover was a horrible no call and he doesn't convert the last play and everyone piles on even though he did get the assist for the win. Pick and roll is the bread and butter of most teams. The Kings were running the same plays on the other end.

[NBlue]

Every late game possession that is in the half court is the exact same.

Fultz dribbles it up slowly. Fournier comes to the ball and gets a handoff. Fultz runs to the corner.

Fournier and Vucevic either run a 2/5 pick and roll or Fournier waves Vucevic off and goes into isolation.

The only time it's different is when Fultz gets a rebound and does a one man fast break the other way or it's an ATO set play which typically goes to Ross.

Just painfully predictable.

What would you suggest?

To my eyes for most of the 4th quarter the 2/5 PNR was clearly our best weapon with Evan and Vooch (but especially Evan) playing well and generally making good decisions. Evan got to the FT line 12 times and had 6 assists to lead the team. He was flat out dealing. I think there are valid complaints to be made about the so-called "Buddy Ball" over the course of games no question and I would also like to see Markelle used as more of an offensive option over the course of games HOWEVER, it seems quite clear to me that in late game situations -- especially when Evan is playing well -- the 2/5 PNR is our most effective option. I think our last offensive play proves that to a tee.

Most teams have pretty predictable end of game sets which involve their best player -- just our top level talent is not as good as the good teams so it is what it is. I mean I'd love for us to have a better option but I just don't see it -- especially in that game the way Evan was playing. I thought Fultz had a very good game also but they are going to go under the screen every time if we try the 1/5 PNR with him and so you are either gonna settle for a long Fultz shot or congested spacing and him trying to penetrate - its not a great option. To me the value of Fultz is to get him out running AND get our team out and running -- he is great in transition and in speeding up our offense but, at least so far, slow half court sets are not his forte.

I just don't see any other great options out there with the personnel we have at the moment. I'd love to hear other alternatives though.

[Knightro]

What would you suggest?

To my eyes for most of the 4th quarter the 2/5 PNR was clearly our best weapon with Evan and Vooch (but especially Evan) playing well and generally making good decisions. Evan got to the FT line 12 times and had 6 assists to lead the team. He was flat out dealing. I think there are valid complaints to be made about the so-called "Buddy Ball" over the course of games no question and I would also like to see Markelle used as more of an offensive option over the course of games HOWEVER, it seems quite clear to me that in late game situations -- especially when Evan is playing well -- the 2/5 PNR is our most effective option. I think our last offensive play proves that to a tee.

Most teams have pretty predictable end of game sets which involve their best player -- just our top level talent is not as good as the good teams so it is what it is. I mean I'd love for us to have a better option but I just don't see it -- especially in that game the way Evan was playing. I thought Fultz had a very good game also but they are going to go under the screen every time if we try the 1/5 PNR with him and so you are either gonna settle for a long Fultz shot or congested spacing and him trying to penetrate - its not a great option. To me the value of Fultz is to get him out running AND get our team out and running -- he is great in transition and in speeding up our offense but, at least so far, slow half court sets are not his forte.

I just don't see any other great options out there with the personnel we have at the moment. I'd love to hear other alternatives though.

Let me be clear, I'm not arguing it isn't the best option Clifford has when he's trying to win a game, I simply think it's boring, predictable and stale.

If given the choice, I would MUCH would rather let Fultz play isolation or run pick and roll late in games and see if he can do it (and not go away from it if it fails a couple of times) than I would watch Fournier/Vucevic run the same plays and succeed because we already know that the ceiling on Fournier/Vucevic running those plays is limited.

So yes. Fournier/Vucevic PnR may be the best option right now, but I would rather find out (and accept it might not be as good/fail) if someone else can do it better because we know how limited the ceiling is with Vucevic and Fournier as the two best players/focal points of the offense.

[rcklsscognition]

Would rather watch someone fail than watch someone succeed is a pretty good summation of the board.

[Optimus_Steel]

Wait I thought Evan hates AG!!!! Lol.


Glad we got the win, it was deserved. Still almost blew the game allowing a 8-0 run to make a 7pt lead into a 1pt deficit. Evan did keep his composure an made a good play and AG finished it well, although it looked like it was going nowhere initially. We need to figure out how to get motion and players off the ball moving in these last minute situations as this is not our forte clearly, too much isolation/stagnation. Hopefully this wins gets the guys more comfortable.

[Knightro]

Would rather watch someone fail than watch someone succeed is a pretty good summation of the board.

That's misrepresenting what I actually said pretty significantly.

The truth is, we don't *know* if putting the ball in Fultz or Isaac's hands would produce better results than what the Fournier/Vucevic two-man game does in clutch situations because quite literally neither guy has ever been afforded the opportunity to even try.

What we do know is that an offense heavily predicated on high usage rates for Fournier and Vucevic with a heavy diet of those two defaulting into their two-man game over the years have not produced efficient offenses or led to very much overall team success.

So I say again... Vucevic/Fournier could very well be the best option the Magic have right now, but that combo has clearly established itself as not a particularly good option overall.

I would be at least willing to see if an offense that isn't so heavily based around those two could have success. Maybe it would fail, but the Magic don't really have anything significant to lose either.

[drsd]

This team is starting to get in a sort of a rythm

really hope we face the celtics in the playoffs even if its a little bit early, think we could matchup well with them

The Magic is looking a lot like the probable 7-seed, meaning Boston or Miami.

Lot's of games to play, but I love where the Magic is currently at !

[NBlue]

What would you suggest?

To my eyes for most of the 4th quarter the 2/5 PNR was clearly our best weapon with Evan and Vooch (but especially Evan) playing well and generally making good decisions. Evan got to the FT line 12 times and had 6 assists to lead the team. He was flat out dealing. I think there are valid complaints to be made about the so-called "Buddy Ball" over the course of games no question and I would also like to see Markelle used as more of an offensive option over the course of games HOWEVER, it seems quite clear to me that in late game situations -- especially when Evan is playing well -- the 2/5 PNR is our most effective option. I think our last offensive play proves that to a tee.

Most teams have pretty predictable end of game sets which involve their best player -- just our top level talent is not as good as the good teams so it is what it is. I mean I'd love for us to have a better option but I just don't see it -- especially in that game the way Evan was playing. I thought Fultz had a very good game also but they are going to go under the screen every time if we try the 1/5 PNR with him and so you are either gonna settle for a long Fultz shot or congested spacing and him trying to penetrate - its not a great option. To me the value of Fultz is to get him out running AND get our team out and running -- he is great in transition and in speeding up our offense but, at least so far, slow half court sets are not his forte.

I just don't see any other great options out there with the personnel we have at the moment. I'd love to hear other alternatives though.

Let me be clear, I'm not arguing it isn't the best option Clifford has when he's trying to win a game, I simply think it's boring, predictable and stale.

If given the choice, I would MUCH would rather let Fultz play isolation or run pick and roll late in games and see if he can do it (and not go away from it if it fails a couple of times) than I would watch Fournier/Vucevic run the same plays and succeed because we already know that the ceiling on Fournier/Vucevic running those plays is limited.

So yes. Fournier/Vucevic PnR may be the best option right now, but I would rather find out (and accept it might not be as good/fail) if someone else can do it better because we know how limited the ceiling is with Vucevic and Fournier as the two best players/focal points of the offense.

So my take on this is that its totally fair, in part, to be frustrated with the organization for failing to come up with personnel to give Cliff more options. Now they might note that they have been hamstrung by injuries coupled with some pretty bad moves by the prior GM who really put them behind the eight ball in terms of value depth. They would also probably point our young talent are either hurt (JI) or coming off a serious injury (Fultz) and both can't be rushed and also will need time to develop. That said, when you look at the value of some of the picks after Bamba (SGA in particular) and some of the value available in the '19 draft (Clarke, for example) and the possible trade options that could have been I do think its fair that WeHam can be fairly criticized while, of course, they also deserve lots of credit for the Fultz trade.

THAT SAID, if anyone here is Cliff and in the situation that he is in -- we are running the 2/5 PNR with Evan and Vooch in the crunch all day. Cliff knows his job is to win -- not to make things exciting or interesting or any of that. I mean -- I would love our team to be more exciting and interesting -- but it is what it is right now. I watch Memphis in the League Pass and I'm like damn that looks fun. JJJ and Ja flying all over the place with Dillon Brooks -- that is fun. But that is not what we got. And Cliff's job is to get the most out of the guys we got. And although our season hasn't been exactly great for a number of reasons and I would agree with the criticism of him on certain things (inflexible rotations most of all) I think that overall he is doing what he can to keep us in games, keep the team together and put us in the best possible situation to win. I think that's all we can really ask from a coach.