Game 40: Phoenix Suns (16-23) @ Atlanta Hawks (8-32)

[bwoolf2]

How can I forget Tyler Johnson... I’m rooting for him to turn it but Jesus Christ he’s bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ya not sure what is going on his game fell off a cliff

[hollywood6964]

I think the Booker "defenders" think that a lot of "us" think that booker is a bad player......We don't, at least not offensively. although, his defensive eye test and metrics are some of THE worst in the entire league- he's nearly a net negative a lot of nights.

Outside of that, I see him as a Carmello type of player. John wall effect. Marbury if you will. the guy can put up great numbers, assists, but none of the way he plays, leads to winning. none of it. That way doesn't work.

In the beginning of the year, before injuries, when Rubio was controlling the ball, he got his points in his spots. that was it. ever since rubio got injured, he's grabbed one reign and hasn't let go. Its been this tug of war with Rubio for ball control, and despite some injuries, even when healthy-----we've seen how that's worked out. Either a slim, **** win, or bad losses.

you cannot play that way, guys are not robots. They get disengaged watching him ask for screen after screen, so he can get his 15 footer or try to get to the line. He is a quick hit player, one-two dribble and shoot. Sometimes no dribble. This iso (not really iso when you need 3 screens to get a shot off) **** is no good, and only works in the regular season for guys like harden or doncic. But those guys can shake defenders, and then get draw n kicks- Booker cannot shake anybody with any amount of consistency. Hell, even with screens he can barely get the defender on his hip.

He's a good player, who can even be all-star level, who thinks he's better than he is. Like I said before this very game, if he tries to get into a battle with a true iso player (young in this case, who is better than him), and have a 1v1 battle, he and the team will lose. He's not good enough.

I know everybody wants a "superstar" on their team- but he isn't one. He's a nice #2 option, who should not have the ball in his hands for more than 3-4 seconds on the shot clock, preferably 2-3.

[ATTL]

Tyler Johnson for derrick rose and markieff Morris.
Gets us a contributor at power forward and offense off the bench.

Plus it would make everyone on this board mad and it would be funny to read.

[Blonde]

We got absolutely nothing from 4 out of 5 starters and our bench is one of the weakest in the league. Simple as that. Don’t need pontification about Booker like the above post to explain why we’re losing

[KLEON]

Baynes, Okobo and Dario were a joke today. Oubre was off, I’ll give him a pass. He was getting to the rim and missing shots he normally makes.

I never want to see Okobo and Saric ever again on the court again.

Trae Young is so good. The Suns are not. Also, the Booker ejection was a joke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its sh*t post like this that pisses me off. I wish people would see how underrated Saric is. I don't know why Monty doesn't run plays for him. He's capable of driving to the basket and get buckets, he has mid-range game and can post up but again they don't run plays for him and it makes him look like a stooge.

[Frank Lee]

I went into this year halfway expecting TJo to make a case to extend him. F it... I'd almost buy him out now. Too bad he has nowhere to go, as he is playing his way to a minimum deal and will be lucky if he doesn't need his passport.

[KLEON]

How can I forget Tyler Johnson... I’m rooting for him to turn it around but Jesus Christ he’s bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think he's worried about getting traded

[hollywood6964]

I went into this year halfway expecting TJo to make a case to extend him. F it... I'd almost buy him out now. Too bad he has nowhere to go, as he is playing his way to a minimum deal and will be lucky if he doesn't need his passport.

Yeah he's been atrocious, and he looked so good the 6-8 games too....

[KLEON]

The other thing that pissed my off is that Okobo and Carter ran the point which is OK although Okobo played like trash. Then why the hell is Ty on the bench if he isn't going to play with Rubio out? Send his arse to the G League. Ty is no scrub,I still believe his game is still there but he's clearly lacking confidence and him riding the bench will only make it worse.

[SunsRback4Good]

Only thing that can change our season around if we traded Tyler Johnson for Tyler Herro but we all know that's far from happening.

[lilfishi22]

I think the Booker "defenders" think that a lot of "us" think that booker is a bad player......We don't, at least not offensively. although, his defensive eye test and metrics are some of THE worst in the entire league- he's nearly a net negative a lot of nights.

Outside of that, I see him as a Carmello type of player. John wall effect. Marbury if you will. the guy can put up great numbers, assists, but none of the way he plays, leads to winning. none of it. That way doesn't work.

In the beginning of the year, before injuries, when Rubio was controlling the ball, he got his points in his spots. that was it. ever since rubio got injured, he's grabbed one reign and hasn't let go. Its been this tug of war with Rubio for ball control, and despite some injuries, even when healthy-----we've seen how that's worked out. Either a slim, **** win, or bad losses.

you cannot play that way, guys are not robots. They get disengaged watching him ask for screen after screen, so he can get his 15 footer or try to get to the line. He is a quick hit player, one-two dribble and shoot. Sometimes no dribble. This iso (not really iso when you need 3 screens to get a shot off) **** is no good, and only works in the regular season for guys like harden or doncic. But those guys can shake defenders, and then get draw n kicks- Booker cannot shake anybody with any amount of consistency. Hell, even with screens he can barely get the defender on his hip.

He's a good player, who can even be all-star level, who thinks he's better than he is. Like I said before this very game, if he tries to get into a battle with a true iso player (young in this case, who is better than him), and have a 1v1 battle, he and the team will lose. He's not good enough.

I know everybody wants a "superstar" on their team- but he isn't one. He's a nice #2 option, who should not have the ball in his hands for more than 3-4 seconds on the shot clock, preferably 2-3.

I probably come off as a Booker defender but I fully recognise his deep flaws as a player. So I'd say I'd lean more pro-Booker than full pro-Booker.

I think it's when you realise that he's not a superstar (like I have and I'm sure you do) that you realise that the weight he's carrying as if he's a superstar is unreasonable. What I don't know is what he could do to be a winning player. When we thought he was drafted to be a just a scorer, he became that. When we thought he'd only ever just be a pure scorer, he became a pretty solid passer. When we thought he'd only be an inefficient empty-scorer, he became pretty efficient.

It's just not entirely clear to me what he needs to do in order to be a winning player. It's easy to point at defense but there are winning players who don't play a lick of defense and at least this season he's trying. And from a defensive standpoint, I've basically given up in hoping he'd become even poor defensively. So offensively, what does he need to do? In wins this season, he's taken 18.75 FGA while he's taken 17.5 FGA so there isn't really a positive correlation between him shooting us into L's. So does becoming a catch and shoot type of player mean we become a winning team?

[hollywood6964]

The other thing that pissed my off is that Okobo and Carter ran the point which is OK although Okobo played like trash. Then why the hell is Ty on the bench if he isn't going to play with Rubio out? Send his arse to the G League. Ty is no scrub,I still believe his game is still there but he's clearly lacking confidence and him riding the bench will only make it worse.

He's just so slow. That's a big problem. And he has a hop shot. Those two things combined are ok for a big pf or a center, but not a pg.

[lilfishi22]

The other thing that pissed my off is that Okobo and Carter ran the point which is OK although Okobo played like trash. Then why the hell is Ty on the bench if he isn't going to play with Rubio out? Send his arse to the G League. Ty is no scrub,I still believe his game is still there but he's clearly lacking confidence and him riding the bench will only make it worse.

Wish he wasn't but Ty has been a scrub in the games he's played. We should've sent him down to the G-league long ago

[hollywood6964]

I think the Booker "defenders" think that a lot of "us" think that booker is a bad player......We don't, at least not offensively. although, his defensive eye test and metrics are some of THE worst in the entire league- he's nearly a net negative a lot of nights.

Outside of that, I see him as a Carmello type of player. John wall effect. Marbury if you will. the guy can put up great numbers, assists, but none of the way he plays, leads to winning. none of it. That way doesn't work.

In the beginning of the year, before injuries, when Rubio was controlling the ball, he got his points in his spots. that was it. ever since rubio got injured, he's grabbed one reign and hasn't let go. Its been this tug of war with Rubio for ball control, and despite some injuries, even when healthy-----we've seen how that's worked out. Either a slim, **** win, or bad losses.

you cannot play that way, guys are not robots. They get disengaged watching him ask for screen after screen, so he can get his 15 footer or try to get to the line. He is a quick hit player, one-two dribble and shoot. Sometimes no dribble. This iso (not really iso when you need 3 screens to get a shot off) **** is no good, and only works in the regular season for guys like harden or doncic. But those guys can shake defenders, and then get draw n kicks- Booker cannot shake anybody with any amount of consistency. Hell, even with screens he can barely get the defender on his hip.

He's a good player, who can even be all-star level, who thinks he's better than he is. Like I said before this very game, if he tries to get into a battle with a true iso player (young in this case, who is better than him), and have a 1v1 battle, he and the team will lose. He's not good enough.

I know everybody wants a "superstar" on their team- but he isn't one. He's a nice #2 option, who should not have the ball in his hands for more than 3-4 seconds on the shot clock, preferably 2-3.

I probably come off as a Booker defender but I fully recognise his deep flaws as a player. So I'd say I'd lean more pro-Booker than full pro-Booker.

I think it's when you realise that he's not a superstar (like I have and I'm sure you do) that you realise that the weight he's carrying as if he's a superstar is unreasonable. What I don't know is what he could do to be a winning player. When we thought he was drafted to be a just a scorer, he became that. When we thought he'd only ever just be a pure scorer, he became a pretty solid passer. When we thought he'd only be an inefficient empty-scorer, he became pretty efficient.

It's just not entirely clear to me what he needs to do in order to be a winning player. It's easy to point at defense but there are winning players who don't play a lick of defense and at least this season he's trying. And from a defensive standpoint, I've basically given up in hoping he'd become even poor defensively. So offensively, what does he need to do? In wins this season, he's taken 18.75 FGA while he's taken 17.5 FGA so there isn't really a positive correlation between him shooting us into L's. So does becoming a catch and shoot type of player mean we become a winning team?

I don't think anything's as simple as that. But letting Rubio control the plays. Getting to his spots, spreading the floor. Getting plays ran for him and making quick decisions out of those plays. Getting back on defense. Not working so hard to get a whatever shot off n then whining about the no call. Other guys, like baynes, cam, bridges, saric, etc can get theirs too. This just inherently induces more effort from everybody because they play to shoot here n there as well.


There's so much to it. Even playing pick up, nobody wants to play with the gut who demands to make every play, whether it be scoring, passing, complaining, etc.

[Mjee]

This loss hurts ...

Credit to Trae young, guy is a stud!

I thought Ayton played pretty good! We need to revolve our offense a little more around him. He has been very efficient and needs more touches/shots. Good overall performance

Kelly was not himself.... I really like him but he needs to pass a little more if he’s driving to the hoop. Usually he draws two defenders and should just throw an easy lob to DA but he selfishly try’s to score more often than not.

I love book !!! lol but point book needs to go !!! I know without Rubio we are short handed so I get why Monty went to book at the 1 towards the end

Mikal Bridges has played phenomenal lately, good for him ... he needs to continue building his confidence on the offensive end .. keep it up Mikal

The Aaron baynes starting experiment is over !!!!! Time to start Ayton again ... enough is enough ... baynes has been piss poor

Dario Saric and Tyler Johnson - Buzz’s girlfriend Woof (these two are not good and have no futures in a phx suns uniform) time to gtfo

On to NYC

[lilfishi22]

I think the Booker "defenders" think that a lot of "us" think that booker is a bad player......We don't, at least not offensively. although, his defensive eye test and metrics are some of THE worst in the entire league- he's nearly a net negative a lot of nights.

Outside of that, I see him as a Carmello type of player. John wall effect. Marbury if you will. the guy can put up great numbers, assists, but none of the way he plays, leads to winning. none of it. That way doesn't work.

In the beginning of the year, before injuries, when Rubio was controlling the ball, he got his points in his spots. that was it. ever since rubio got injured, he's grabbed one reign and hasn't let go. Its been this tug of war with Rubio for ball control, and despite some injuries, even when healthy-----we've seen how that's worked out. Either a slim, **** win, or bad losses.

you cannot play that way, guys are not robots. They get disengaged watching him ask for screen after screen, so he can get his 15 footer or try to get to the line. He is a quick hit player, one-two dribble and shoot. Sometimes no dribble. This iso (not really iso when you need 3 screens to get a shot off) **** is no good, and only works in the regular season for guys like harden or doncic. But those guys can shake defenders, and then get draw n kicks- Booker cannot shake anybody with any amount of consistency. Hell, even with screens he can barely get the defender on his hip.

He's a good player, who can even be all-star level, who thinks he's better than he is. Like I said before this very game, if he tries to get into a battle with a true iso player (young in this case, who is better than him), and have a 1v1 battle, he and the team will lose. He's not good enough.

I know everybody wants a "superstar" on their team- but he isn't one. He's a nice #2 option, who should not have the ball in his hands for more than 3-4 seconds on the shot clock, preferably 2-3.

I probably come off as a Booker defender but I fully recognise his deep flaws as a player. So I'd say I'd lean more pro-Booker than full pro-Booker.

I think it's when you realise that he's not a superstar (like I have and I'm sure you do) that you realise that the weight he's carrying as if he's a superstar is unreasonable. What I don't know is what he could do to be a winning player. When we thought he was drafted to be a just a scorer, he became that. When we thought he'd only ever just be a pure scorer, he became a pretty solid passer. When we thought he'd only be an inefficient empty-scorer, he became pretty efficient.

It's just not entirely clear to me what he needs to do in order to be a winning player. It's easy to point at defense but there are winning players who don't play a lick of defense and at least this season he's trying. And from a defensive standpoint, I've basically given up in hoping he'd become even poor defensively. So offensively, what does he need to do? In wins this season, he's taken 18.75 FGA while he's taken 17.5 FGA so there isn't really a positive correlation between him shooting us into L's. So does becoming a catch and shoot type of player mean we become a winning team?

I don't think anything's as simple as that. But letting Rubio control the plays. Getting to his spots, spreading the floor. Getting plays ran for him and making quick decisions out of those plays. Getting back on defense. Not working so hard to get a whatever shot off n then whining about the no call. Other guys, like baynes, cam, bridges, saric, etc can get theirs too. This just inherently induces more effort from everybody because they play to shoot here n there as well.


There's so much to it. Even playing pick up, nobody wants to play with the gut who demands to make every play, whether it be scoring, passing, complaining, etc.

I totally agree with you that it's not as simple as that. Which is why when I see statement like Booker is the problem, I'm just a bit dumbfounded. I still see Booker as more the solution than a problem and right now, he's probably closer to being a neutral. And honestly, I don't really see many posts that's really crowning him a young superstar or future super star on this board (maybe there is but I probably glossed over it).

Most people, especially Suns fans, know these two things as facts:

1. He's a gift scorer
2. He's a horrible defender.

It's the other questions like, is he a winner? Can he be a winner? Those questions remain unanswered and at 24, it's probably not insane that there isn't a concrete answer yet. I'm not saying he couldn't do more to be a better player as an individual and for the team but I feel like some people think he's the root cause of why we suck when we lose games and that's just not the case. If Booker is the best player on this team, even with all the flaws in his game, isn't that more of a reflection on the team building aspect of this front office?

[hollywood6964]

I probably come off as a Booker defender but I fully recognise his deep flaws as a player. So I'd say I'd lean more pro-Booker than full pro-Booker.

I think it's when you realise that he's not a superstar (like I have and I'm sure you do) that you realise that the weight he's carrying as if he's a superstar is unreasonable. What I don't know is what he could do to be a winning player. When we thought he was drafted to be a just a scorer, he became that. When we thought he'd only ever just be a pure scorer, he became a pretty solid passer. When we thought he'd only be an inefficient empty-scorer, he became pretty efficient.

It's just not entirely clear to me what he needs to do in order to be a winning player. It's easy to point at defense but there are winning players who don't play a lick of defense and at least this season he's trying. And from a defensive standpoint, I've basically given up in hoping he'd become even poor defensively. So offensively, what does he need to do? In wins this season, he's taken 18.75 FGA while he's taken 17.5 FGA so there isn't really a positive correlation between him shooting us into L's. So does becoming a catch and shoot type of player mean we become a winning team?

I don't think anything's as simple as that. But letting Rubio control the plays. Getting to his spots, spreading the floor. Getting plays ran for him and making quick decisions out of those plays. Getting back on defense. Not working so hard to get a whatever shot off n then whining about the no call. Other guys, like baynes, cam, bridges, saric, etc can get theirs too. This just inherently induces more effort from everybody because they play to shoot here n there as well.


There's so much to it. Even playing pick up, nobody wants to play with the gut who demands to make every play, whether it be scoring, passing, complaining, etc.

I totally agree with you that it's not as simple as that. Which is why when I see statement like Booker is the problem, I'm just a bit dumbfounded. I still see Booker as more the solution than a problem and right now, he's probably closer to being a neutral. And honestly, I don't really see many posts that's really crowning him a young superstar or future super star on this board (maybe there is but I probably glossed over it).

Most people, especially Suns fans, know these two things as facts:

1. He's a gift scorer
2. He's a horrible defender.

It's the other questions like, is he a winner? Can he be a winner? Those questions remain unanswered and at 24, it's probably not insane that there isn't a concrete answer yet. I'm not saying he couldn't do more to be a better player as an individual and for the team but I feel like some people think he's the root cause of why we suck when we lose games and that's just not the case. If Booker is the best player on this team, even with all the flaws in his game, isn't that more of a reflection on the team building aspect of this front office?

Sure why not. But he's got some Frankenstein's monster thing going on right now as well.

I've heard ppl say he's a great player, compare him to young Kobe, etc. So it's been there. But more of what I'm saying in my posts, is he thinks he's better than he is. He needs to draw back n let Rubio run offense. Even tonight, he should've let elie do more. It was no wonder when he went out of the game they made that big run in the third. It was fueled by defense and then everybody getting hungry charging down court on offense. Guys want to shoot, or make a nice pass. Not watch endlessly.

Oh and about can he be a winner, etc...yes! If he plays within the offense. Not only is that better, but it also leaves a lot of energy to at least put a hand around the area on defense. But this way? No. He's just not good enough to pull that off.

All this is my opinion, what do you think?

[sunsbg]

This is not a playoffs team. Move Baynes to the bench, try to get a 1st rounder from a contender at the trade deadline. Build chemistry between the young players and hope draft gods move you from mid to high lottery position, so you draft a future star in this weak class.

[AtheJ415]

Tyler Johnson is absolutely useless. Shooting sub 30% from 3 despite being wide the hell open every time he touches the ball. Can't defend. Forces it when he does get the ball. Terrible.

I've never understood starting Baynes over Ayton ever since his shooting has leveled off. His athletic limitations are starting to catch up with him. I'd move to LAC plus something reasonable if we could get Shamet. Otherwise I'd go for the highest late 1st I could get from a contender. I think he's worth that as a rental, and with a late first in this draft we could target a long-term backup like Carey or Tillie.

Bridges has been a top 5 player on this team for awhile, and he's such a freaking dynamo defender that they should let him guard 4s anyways. Shot changes have been frustrating but he does enough of everything else to play more. Him and Johnson and Oubre need to eat up the minutes at the 4 along with Saric getting just a few.

[cberry78]

Clearly lost that game because of point Booker. His 39 points on 23 shots was awful.

He only went 2 of 4 from 3. If he swings the ball around more to other players maybe they could warm up a bit more. I mean, luckily Cam didn't need to warm up since he shot it well behind the arc going 2 of 3 but the other guys need more touches. I mean, other than Booker and Cam there were 13 other 3 pointers attempted and no one hit one but I'm sure that someone might've gotten it on the 14th attempt.

Also, Booker clearly not crashing the glass like we expect him to leading to all those 2nd chance points for the Hawks especially in the first half.

We really need to coddle these other players a bit more so we can get their self esteem up. It's on Booker to try and forget that his teammates are professional athletes who should be coming in ready to play hard and compete.

In summary, I think we all know it's time to either sit Booker or trade him because the team has won so many games when he doesn't play. As a Suns fan, I demand to see more Elie Okobo and Jevon Carter. Would it kill Monty to get them in a lineup with with Sario Daric and Check Diallo? Now that seems like a winning combination to me.