Fringe vs Rebuild - 5 Year Trends - East vs West

[VFX]

I am not ready to move on from Isaac, Fultz, Bamba and Okeke. Trading away Ross, Fournier or Vucevic will propably lead to a lot of losing and bad chemistry resulting in trade demands. Fultz is nowhere near ready to lead this team, Isaac is grrat but a complimentary piece, Okeke is hurt and Bamba needs years to develop. What " a minor rebuild" really means is losing credibility among veterans and slow death of this group of players. ( including Fultz and Isaac). Why commit to a team thats purposefully wants to lose ? Why give them a discount ? We will get the worst kind of free agents that sign here only for money, and use our team as a stat farm. Jeff Green rings a bell ? Bismack Biyombo anyone ? Maybe we want the Sacramento treatment ? Dedmon for 13 M ? Barnes for 21 M?

Memphis and New Orleans exemples to justify tanking/ rebuilding are so funny thats not even funny. Pelicans got Zion after 33 win season, Grizzlies got Morant after 33 win season. Someone wants to mention OKC ? Please dont.

Nobody is talking about tanking in this thread but you. Nobody is advocating for tanking if you are actually reading the thread.

Memphis’ record 18-22
Orlando’s record 18-21...

But yeah we are the more competitive and credible organization right now. /green.

Also, what’s your point about free agents? We haven’t landed a good free agent in forever. The last decent one I can think of was Shard because we massively overpaid him and had Dwight Howard. You make it seem like this franchise hasn’t benefited entirely from the draft historically. I don’t see vets scrambling to come play with Vuc and AG... haven’t seen it for 5 years and never will.

[zaymon]

I believe that the new draft rules will disproportionately negatively impact small market teams and create an even greater divide when compared to large market teams. For example, Lebron left the Cavs for the LA after the Lakers came off of a 35 win season. If we are being honest, Lebron would never sign with a 35 win Magic, Bucks, Jazz, Grizzlies, etc, but will sign with a larger market/more popular franchise despite the fact that the Lakers were awful for nearly a decade also.

Obviously the loss of Lebron (twice) will devastate any team and the Cavs were rewarded with a number #1 pick in 2011, 2013, and 2014. It makes sense that when a team takes a blow like the Cavs did that the lottery should favor them because unless a Mt. Rushmore type player like Lebron is playing there (who was also drafted #1), FAs will not be lining up to play in Cleveland Ohio. It was a statistical anomaly to have three #1 pick opportunities in 4 years when the draft odds heavily favored the worst teams. Under the new rules it would not only be an anomaly, but should be a near statistical impossibility for the Cavs to replicate said favorability. Given the new rules, what is a 19 win Cavs team meant to do? If it means drafting a Darius Garland with pick #5 every year then they are in trouble.

All this to say, from a historical precedence, many people are going to look at the term re-build and tank as synonymous terms. Assuming TheGlyde’s graphs are accurate, tanking for higher lottery odds was a viable strategy for a long time, but it is almost certain that it can no longer be relied upon. So to those saying lets re-build by breaking up the core, what does a successful re-build look like in the modern NBA for a small market team like the Magic?

I do not mean this comment to be divisive, I am just looking for clarity because I think some of our forum arguments may be coming down to semantics re-build vs tank etc. I am also looking for an answer that may give me hope because as a fan of the Magic, I just don't see an easy way off of the treadmill we are currently on. If we trade our vets for young unproven players with potential that often times does not pan out, we are certain to lose a ton of games for the foreseeable future without the cushion of favorable lottery odds. In my view our team is stuck between a rock and a hard place unless we get very lucky and win a trade for a current star or somehow with luck convince a superstar free agent to sign after establishing a winning culture and strong management that players respect and want to play for.

Its not going to be easy. As someone that is a strong proponent of breaking up the core, I think there could be a successful rebuild without wholesale tanking.

What does this look like? I would say it’s a combination of moving larger contract veteran players for multiple younger pieces and picks. This is similar to what OKC did with PG only on a much smaller scale. Ideally Orlando would be looking at taking back bad contracts, picks, and young players as a way of casting a wider net to land potentially better talent. If it’s no longer merely about getting the highest pick, then we should be focused on getting more.

Looking at franchises like New Orleans, and Memphis should be prime examples of how to build out of unsuccessful playoff / treadmill teams. They went from “playoff teams” to “youth movement with high potential” in less than a few years. They have players like Morant, JJJ, Clarke, Zion, Hayes, Ingram etc. potentially under contract for an extended amount of time. They can grow their assets for a potential package later (similar to Boston). Not only that, but these teams are fun to watch.

Having said all that, it obviously doesn’t always pan out. You are correct to accurately assess that this team is between a rock and a hard place. I just personally fail to view the alternative as a solution to the problem we face. 3/5 of the starters and our primary bench option are who they are. If anything, they’ve regressed or have proven to be as inconsistent as ever. If players are viewing this team within the same scope as we are, would they see this franchise as a good place to sign? I’d say it’s doubtful. What hasn’t worked is biding time with the same core Hennigan was fired for fielding.

So now you are not talking about tanking but moving larger contract veteran players for multiple younger pieces and picks
How convinient, who are you trying to deceive? . And you give exemples of successful rebuild/ tanking in Memphis and New Orleans who got their stars after winning 33 games each?!?!? and you want us to act like we are OKC without Westbrook and George ( doesnt make sense to make a comparison?)
Whats my point about free agents ? We signed Gordon, Ross, Vucevic and Aminu on fair deals becouse our front office showed we want to win. Selling best veterans for young players, bad contracts and picks is not commiting to winning. You are really cheeky to write that nobody is talking about tanking but me. Its like telling somebody that you dont want to kill him, but just cut his head off.

[VFX]

I believe that the new draft rules will disproportionately negatively impact small market teams and create an even greater divide when compared to large market teams. For example, Lebron left the Cavs for the LA after the Lakers came off of a 35 win season. If we are being honest, Lebron would never sign with a 35 win Magic, Bucks, Jazz, Grizzlies, etc, but will sign with a larger market/more popular franchise despite the fact that the Lakers were awful for nearly a decade also.

Obviously the loss of Lebron (twice) will devastate any team and the Cavs were rewarded with a number #1 pick in 2011, 2013, and 2014. It makes sense that when a team takes a blow like the Cavs did that the lottery should favor them because unless a Mt. Rushmore type player like Lebron is playing there (who was also drafted #1), FAs will not be lining up to play in Cleveland Ohio. It was a statistical anomaly to have three #1 pick opportunities in 4 years when the draft odds heavily favored the worst teams. Under the new rules it would not only be an anomaly, but should be a near statistical impossibility for the Cavs to replicate said favorability. Given the new rules, what is a 19 win Cavs team meant to do? If it means drafting a Darius Garland with pick #5 every year then they are in trouble.

All this to say, from a historical precedence, many people are going to look at the term re-build and tank as synonymous terms. Assuming TheGlyde’s graphs are accurate, tanking for higher lottery odds was a viable strategy for a long time, but it is almost certain that it can no longer be relied upon. So to those saying lets re-build by breaking up the core, what does a successful re-build look like in the modern NBA for a small market team like the Magic?

I do not mean this comment to be divisive, I am just looking for clarity because I think some of our forum arguments may be coming down to semantics re-build vs tank etc. I am also looking for an answer that may give me hope because as a fan of the Magic, I just don't see an easy way off of the treadmill we are currently on. If we trade our vets for young unproven players with potential that often times does not pan out, we are certain to lose a ton of games for the foreseeable future without the cushion of favorable lottery odds. In my view our team is stuck between a rock and a hard place unless we get very lucky and win a trade for a current star or somehow with luck convince a superstar free agent to sign after establishing a winning culture and strong management that players respect and want to play for.

Its not going to be easy. As someone that is a strong proponent of breaking up the core, I think there could be a successful rebuild without wholesale tanking.

What does this look like? I would say it’s a combination of moving larger contract veteran players for multiple younger pieces and picks. This is similar to what OKC did with PG only on a much smaller scale. Ideally Orlando would be looking at taking back bad contracts, picks, and young players as a way of casting a wider net to land potentially better talent. If it’s no longer merely about getting the highest pick, then we should be focused on getting more.

Looking at franchises like New Orleans, and Memphis should be prime examples of how to build out of unsuccessful playoff / treadmill teams. They went from “playoff teams” to “youth movement with high potential” in less than a few years. They have players like Morant, JJJ, Clarke, Zion, Hayes, Ingram etc. potentially under contract for an extended amount of time. They can grow their assets for a potential package later (similar to Boston). Not only that, but these teams are fun to watch.

Having said all that, it obviously doesn’t always pan out. You are correct to accurately assess that this team is between a rock and a hard place. I just personally fail to view the alternative as a solution to the problem we face. 3/5 of the starters and our primary bench option are who they are. If anything, they’ve regressed or have proven to be as inconsistent as ever. If players are viewing this team within the same scope as we are, would they see this franchise as a good place to sign? I’d say it’s doubtful. What hasn’t worked is biding time with the same core Hennigan was fired for fielding.

So now you are not talking about tanking but moving larger contract veteran players for multiple younger pieces and picks
How convinient, who are you trying to deceive? . And you give exemples of successful rebuild/ tanking in Memphis and New Orleans who got their stars after winning 33 games each?!?!? and you want us to act like we are OKC without Westbrook and George ( doesnt make sense to make a comparison?)
Whats my point about free agents ? We signed Gordon, Ross, Vucevic and Aminu on fair deals becouse our front office showed we want to win. Selling best veterans for young players, bad contracts and picks is not commiting to winning. You are really cheeky to write that nobody is talking about tanking but me. Its like telling somebody that you dont want to kill him, but just cut his head off.

So you would rather be a perpetual fringe playoff team as opposed to rebuilding. Got it.

You can disagree with rebuilding, but you can’t be serious thinking this core of players is winning anything anytime soon.

You know who else has a commitment to winning? The Spurs. They are 17-22 this year and their dynasty is finished. I don’t see free agents flocking to them because of their history as a “winning franchise”. These are just arbitrary measurements that people set up to avoid the fact that talent is the most important factor in the nba. So sue me for wanting this boring roster to be different for once this decade and actually have a chance and landing real talent in a realistic way.

Also, who said we are OKC? I said we should rebuild like them. They traded away what didn’t work and kept them from being contenders for a legitimate future. They are 23-17 right now in the west... that’s right... better record than Orlando while we remain a “fringe playoff team”...

[j-ragg]

Memphis and OKC are doing it right. Young franchise players with enough vets so their team won't be close to a laughingstock while plenty of assets moving forward. I'm jealous.

[OrlMagic05]

I think Oladipo said it best, this team wasnt going anywhere because everyone wanted to be the "star" there was no structure

[pepe1991]

Pelicans started rebuild by trading only player outside Giannis who can win DPOY and MVP.

In return they got
Igram ( 2# pick)
Lonzo ( 2# pick)
4th overall draft pick
Hart

With enough dumb luck they won lottery by having 8th worst record. Wizards had worst record than both, Pelicans and Memphis and drafted 9th.

Return value for Conley and Gasol was pretty damn poor actually.

[OrlandoNed]

Its not going to be easy. As someone that is a strong proponent of breaking up the core, I think there could be a successful rebuild without wholesale tanking.

What does this look like? I would say it’s a combination of moving larger contract veteran players for multiple younger pieces and picks. This is similar to what OKC did with PG only on a much smaller scale. Ideally Orlando would be looking at taking back bad contracts, picks, and young players as a way of casting a wider net to land potentially better talent. If it’s no longer merely about getting the highest pick, then we should be focused on getting more.

Looking at franchises like New Orleans, and Memphis should be prime examples of how to build out of unsuccessful playoff / treadmill teams. They went from “playoff teams” to “youth movement with high potential” in less than a few years. They have players like Morant, JJJ, Clarke, Zion, Hayes, Ingram etc. potentially under contract for an extended amount of time. They can grow their assets for a potential package later (similar to Boston). Not only that, but these teams are fun to watch.

Having said all that, it obviously doesn’t always pan out. You are correct to accurately assess that this team is between a rock and a hard place. I just personally fail to view the alternative as a solution to the problem we face. 3/5 of the starters and our primary bench option are who they are. If anything, they’ve regressed or have proven to be as inconsistent as ever. If players are viewing this team within the same scope as we are, would they see this franchise as a good place to sign? I’d say it’s doubtful. What hasn’t worked is biding time with the same core Hennigan was fired for fielding.

So now you are not talking about tanking but moving larger contract veteran players for multiple younger pieces and picks
How convinient, who are you trying to deceive? . And you give exemples of successful rebuild/ tanking in Memphis and New Orleans who got their stars after winning 33 games each?!?!? and you want us to act like we are OKC without Westbrook and George ( doesnt make sense to make a comparison?)
Whats my point about free agents ? We signed Gordon, Ross, Vucevic and Aminu on fair deals becouse our front office showed we want to win. Selling best veterans for young players, bad contracts and picks is not commiting to winning. You are really cheeky to write that nobody is talking about tanking but me. Its like telling somebody that you dont want to kill him, but just cut his head off.

So you would rather be a perpetual fringe playoff team as opposed to rebuilding. Got it.

You can disagree with rebuilding, but you can’t be serious thinking this core of players is winning anything anytime soon.

You know who else has a commitment to winning? The Spurs. They are 17-22 this year and their dynasty is finished. I don’t see free agents flocking to them because of their history as a “winning franchise”. These are just arbitrary measurements that people set up to avoid the fact that talent is the most important factor in the nba. So sue me for wanting this boring roster to be different for once this decade and actually have a chance and landing real talent in a realistic way.

Also, who said we are OKC? I said we should rebuild like them. They traded away what didn’t work and kept them from being contenders for a legitimate future. They are 23-17 right now in the west... that’s right... better record than Orlando while we remain a “fringe playoff team”...

I just don't understand why some desperately cling to this mediocre roster with Vuc and Fournier as the top 2 options. We will never win a playoff series with Vuc as our best player. If it hasn't happened in 8 years why should anyone expect it to happen in the next half-decade? It doesn't take nearly a decade to rebuild a team. It doesn't make sense to stick to a single core for that long if it hasn't shown real results.

(Excuse my analogy, I don't know crap about golf)

Imagine being on a driving range with a bag of random clubs of different irons and not knowing which is which but you know how to swing. Let's say hitting a ball past 300 yards equals winning a championship and 150 yards equals making the playoffs as a 8 seed. You grab a random club and you start teeing off for 8 hours and the best you can do is a max of 153 about 40% of the time. It became obvious hours ago that you aren't using the right club and are actually using a putter as a driver. Does it make more sense to stubbornly keep trying with that putter because you don't want to admit you picked the wrong club 8 hours ago or to pick up a new random club and hope it's a 9-iron that you can use to hit the ball to a minimum of 250 every time?

Sticking with the Vuc core is the equivalent of using a putter as a driver and struggling to get halfway to your goal.

[VFX]

So now you are not talking about tanking but moving larger contract veteran players for multiple younger pieces and picks
How convinient, who are you trying to deceive? . And you give exemples of successful rebuild/ tanking in Memphis and New Orleans who got their stars after winning 33 games each?!?!? and you want us to act like we are OKC without Westbrook and George ( doesnt make sense to make a comparison?)
Whats my point about free agents ? We signed Gordon, Ross, Vucevic and Aminu on fair deals becouse our front office showed we want to win. Selling best veterans for young players, bad contracts and picks is not commiting to winning. You are really cheeky to write that nobody is talking about tanking but me. Its like telling somebody that you dont want to kill him, but just cut his head off.

So you would rather be a perpetual fringe playoff team as opposed to rebuilding. Got it.

You can disagree with rebuilding, but you can’t be serious thinking this core of players is winning anything anytime soon.

You know who else has a commitment to winning? The Spurs. They are 17-22 this year and their dynasty is finished. I don’t see free agents flocking to them because of their history as a “winning franchise”. These are just arbitrary measurements that people set up to avoid the fact that talent is the most important factor in the nba. So sue me for wanting this boring roster to be different for once this decade and actually have a chance and landing real talent in a realistic way.

Also, who said we are OKC? I said we should rebuild like them. They traded away what didn’t work and kept them from being contenders for a legitimate future. They are 23-17 right now in the west... that’s right... better record than Orlando while we remain a “fringe playoff team”...

I just don't understand why some desperately cling to this mediocre roster with Vuc and Fournier as the top 2 options. We will never win a playoff series with Vuc as our best player. If it hasn't happened in 8 years why should anyone expect it to happen in the next half-decade? It doesn't take nearly a decade to rebuild a team. It doesn't make sense to stick to a single core for that long if it hasn't shown real results.

(Excuse my analogy, I don't know crap about golf)

Imagine being on a driving range with a bag of random clubs of different irons and not knowing which is which but you know how to swing. Let's say hitting a ball past 300 yards equals winning a championship and 150 yards equals making the playoffs as a 8 seed. You grab a random club and you start teeing off for 8 hours and the best you can do is a max of 153 about 40% of the time. It became obvious hours ago that you aren't using the right club and are actually using a putter as a driver. Does it make more sense to stubbornly keep trying with that putter because you don't want to admit you picked the wrong club 8 hours ago or to pick up a new random club and hope it's a 9-iron that you can use to hit the ball to a minimum of 250 every time?

Sticking with the Vuc core is the equivalent of using a putter as a driver and struggling to get halfway to your goal.

It’s the definition of insanity at this point. Rolling out the same core and expecting wildly different results. If the East weren’t absolute garbage this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

[VFX]

Pelicans started rebuild by trading only player outside Giannis who can win DPOY and MVP.

In return they got
Igram ( 2# pick)
Lonzo ( 2# pick)
4th overall draft pick
Hart

With enough dumb luck they won lottery by having 8th worst record. Wizards had worst record than both, Pelicans and Memphis and drafted 9th.

Return value for Conley and Gasol was pretty damn poor actually.

And now both of those rosters have higher trade value than Orlando. Isaac might be the only exception.

[j-ragg]

A lot of either strategy depends on luck. Raptors would've probably been considered an endless treadmill destined to blow it up if the Kawhi trade hadn't presented itself. At least drafting a star at least puts the luck into our own hands (sort of) instead of waiting for some star to come here and hopefully carry us for the duration of his contract.

[zaymon]

landing real talent in a realistic way.

So you came up with 3 realistic paths to improve our team ? All of them lead to championship, but you need the purest and the bravest of hearts to decide which one you want to follow.
The Path of Wisdom- You need to have two home grown all stars, who are after their 30th birthday. You need to sacrifice them for nothing, year by year and their souls will be augmented and transfered to new all star bodies at the same position. Weltman is very close for this ritual to succed, we just need 4 more years and Fournier to make allstar appearance.
Path of Treason- You need number one pick. He must establish a good relation with the team and front office and he must sign his extension willingly- that is the most important aspect of this ritual, otherwise it will fail. When the number ones age will exceed quarter of the century, he must request a trade. After the trade you must drink some of his blood during full moon and basketball gods will reward you with half god during next NBA draft regardless of your position in the standings, even if your chances are 6%. Weltman aquired number one pick so we are possibly also doing this ritual.
Path of Friendship- The easiest part is having NBA MVP on your roster, but than its getting harder. Your MVP needs to be lonely and needing a friend. So you must get him a friend, and he must commit to their friendship. After that you need some help from other corrupted organizations. They must lure your MVP and his friend from your team. What these organizations doesnt know is that power of frendship is stronger than hate, and you will suck all of their assets. Its quite hard to complete, but it worked for OKC.

[nbakid123]

Trade everyone but issac

[VFX]

landing real talent in a realistic way.

So you came up with 3 realistic paths to improve our team ? All of them lead to championship, but you need the purest and the bravest of hearts to decide which one you want to follow.
The Path of Wisdom- You need to have two home grown all stars, who are after their 30th birthday. You need to sacrifice them for nothing, year by year and their souls will be augmented and transfered to new all star bodies at the same position. Weltman is very close for this ritual to succed, we just need 4 more years and Fournier to make allstar appearance.
Path of Treason- You need number one pick. He must establish a good relation with the team and front office and he must sign his extension willingly- that is the most important aspect of this ritual, otherwise it will fail. When the number ones age will exceed quarter of the century, he must request a trade. After the trade you must drink some of his blood during full moon and basketball gods will reward you with half god during next NBA draft regardless of your position in the standings, even if your chances are 6%. Weltman aquired number one pick so we are possibly also doing this ritual.
Path of Friendship- The easiest part is having NBA MVP on your roster, but than its getting harder. Your MVP needs to be lonely and needing a friend. So you must get him a friend, and he must commit to their friendship. After that you need some help from other corrupted organizations. They must lure your MVP and his friend from your team. What these organizations doesnt know is that power of frendship is stronger than hate, and you will suck all of their assets. Its quite hard to complete, but it worked for OKC.

I laughed. Thanks.

More like the title of this thread, but using realistic expectations and not arbitrary metrics like “culture”.

Being as this is Orlando and the majority of Nba players usually have zero ties, or business opportunities, here we must look toward cultivating talent internally. Finding other talent within the draft structure or buried on other rosters via trade. We did it in the Shaq/Penny years and we did it with Dwight. Like it or not, those were the most successful years of this franchise.

The Milwaukee route is the most ideal, but the most difficult. It was the same as Dwight to a degree. Draft a superstar player, extend them and build the roster around their skill sets.The problem with this is finding that caliber of player. The draft isn’t reliable for obvious reasons, but the odds of having a higher pick get you the better players if they aren’t once In a lifetime Giannis level hidden gems. You build a window and work within it. If they move on the greener pastures, fine. If not, great.

OKC trades their superstar(s) away for a complete blueprint for the future. They landed SGA, a ton of picks, and a tradable Gallo. They still remain competitive and have a better record than Orlando. Vuc, AG, and Fournier won’t give us the same return as PG13 or Westbrook but you get the idea. This is what is being proposed in this thread seeing as tanking isn’t a good primary option. This and it’s much easier to miss on once in a generation players on a draft to draft basis. Having more picks gives us trade leverage if we decide not to use them outright.

The last route(s) are not viable for Orlando realistically. This isn’t a ”team up” destination, we don’t have draw from our roster, and the Magic will never be a “short list” scenario for a disgruntled star until we land the aforementioned star.

Nevertheless, these are all better scenarios of rebuilding rather than waiting it out for almost a decade while expecting better results.

[Ducklett]

It was so easy. Don't get 6th in a Luka draft. IT WAS THAT SIMPLE. But you culture win people got what you wanted and we lost out on the power that was the top 5 of that draft. Oh well.

At this point our rebuild was done so incorrectly we are a year or two away, if not right this second, from having to blow it up and try again. That is the sad truth.

[Skybox]

Got it...Trade Vuc and Evan for 12 first round picks, win the lottery. Piece of cake.

[j-ragg]

Got it...Trade Vuc and Evan for 12 first round picks, win the lottery. Piece of cake.

I’d be stoked for that type of return sign me up

[pepe1991]

Pelicans started rebuild by trading only player outside Giannis who can win DPOY and MVP.

In return they got
Igram ( 2# pick)
Lonzo ( 2# pick)
4th overall draft pick
Hart

With enough dumb luck they won lottery by having 8th worst record. Wizards had worst record than both, Pelicans and Memphis and drafted 9th.

Return value for Conley and Gasol was pretty damn poor actually.

And now both of those rosters have higher trade value than Orlando. Isaac might be the only exception.

Ofc Pelicans have more assets. They traded top 5 NBA who is 26 and already did this
Career highlights and awards
6× NBA All-Star (2014–2019)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2017)
3× All-NBA First Team (2015, 2017, 2018)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2015, 2017)
3× NBA blocks leader (2014, 2015, 2018)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2013)
NCAA champion (2012)
NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (2012)
Consensus national player of the year (2012)
Consensus first-team All-American (2012)

Memphis has 2 great young talents.
Just 2 years ago there was discussion is Bamba better than Jackson.
Fultz was drafted higher than Morant was in his draft.

Isaac still can develop into better player Jackson is.

Grass is always greener on other side of a fence.

[VFX]

Got it...Trade Vuc and Evan for 12 first round picks, win the lottery. Piece of cake.

Well, of course you would need to add young players, filler, etc. There’s more than one way to find talent. I know you are being sarcastic, but not all of us want to keep trying to patch up a sinking ship.

[zaymon]

Got it...Trade Vuc and Evan for 12 first round picks, win the lottery. Piece of cake.

Well, of course you would need to add young players, filler, etc. There’s more than one way to find talent. I know you are being sarcastic, but not all of us want to keep trying to patch up a sinking ship.

Sinking ship ? We have 22 years old all nba defender who moves like he is not human, we have 21 years old former number 1 pick returning to form, we have 21 years old freakishly long center, we have 21 years old promising forward who didnt even play for us yet, we have old 24 years old veteran forward who is starting to play like a solid starter, we have all our picks going forward and we have a bunch of good veterans on good to great contracts. Not all of us magic fans hate our own team.

[VFX]

Got it...Trade Vuc and Evan for 12 first round picks, win the lottery. Piece of cake.

Well, of course you would need to add young players, filler, etc. There’s more than one way to find talent. I know you are being sarcastic, but not all of us want to keep trying to patch up a sinking ship.

Sinking ship ? We have 22 years old all nba defender who moves like he is not human, we have 21 years old former number 1 pick returning to form, we have 21 years old freakishly long center, we have 21 years old promising forward who didnt even play for us yet, we have old 24 years old veteran forward who is starting to play like a solid starter, we have all our picks going forward and we have a bunch of good veterans on good to great contracts. Not all of us magic fans hate our own team.

And yet we are still reliant on 3 starters that have been on this roster for 5-7 years from a previously failed FO. The same players that aren’t exciting to watch nor capable of producing anything better than a bottom 10 offense.

Put your pitchfork and torch down. Convenient that the ones so against changing this roster only bring up our youth when it fits their agenda.