ChaosHamster wrote:Context wrote:where are all the posters that tortured us about how we didnt get enough value for KP?
We got enough. Getting rid of THJ and Lee would've cost a lot.
Its just getting rid of them was pointless. THJ would arguably be the best player on the team, and Lee was expiring.
If they traded him for pure pick/young asset value, we could've easily gotten more.
Yes. Getting "rid" of THJr has no value at all because we aren't doing anything but replacing him with a worse contract in Randle. And we're still losing. Same with stretching Noah, now we have $6.5 million on our books for two years for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON.
Assuming DSJ never plays a meaningful game again he's a negative asset, he makes $5.6 million next year and can't beat out Elfrid Payton or stay healthy.
So let's look at the picks, Dallas 2021 unprotected. Anything can happen, Luka can get hit by a comet but the Mavs are a mid to high playoff team the next two years. Likely higher next year than this year. This pick if we are fortunate would be somewhere in the low twenties. Right now Dallas would pick 20th.
So the 20th-24th pick in 2021 and
a top ten (1-10) protected in 2023 that rolls for 2 more years then becomes a second ... again barring Luka going to join the Slovenian army this will convey in 2023. By then all signs point to Luka being probably the best player in the world. The Mavs will be a top 10 team in all likelihood.
So lets called it 24th-28th in 2023
So, the positive assets are ~22nd pick in 2021, ~26th pick in 2023
the negative assets are DSJ who can't play for $5.6 million
What KP is doing now is completely irrelevant in discussing what we could have gotten. The timing, the market and what KP can be is what mattered in making the trade. Even if it was decided KP was never playing for the Knicks again if we had a real front office run by competent humans they'd know not to trade him with the following being true
* less information, you always make trade / buy / sell decisions when you have access to the most information if possible assuming you have the luxury of waiting (this also applied to the Noah stretch, which could have been done anytime, even after the draft or the summer or before signing the amazing free agents we were getting)
They made this trade when they had almost no information. They
didn't know if free agents would come here, they
didn't know Kevin Durant would be a cripple at year end, they
didn't know if other teams might suffer injuries and need a rim protecting 3 point shooting power forward, most importantly they
didn't know if we'd get one of the two difference makers in the draft.
KP wasn't playing last year period. For us or whoever we traded him to. That was a given. So if he continued to sit here in a suit or Dallas or Portland in a suit it didn't matter.
So even worse case, the Dallas trade, could it still have happened on draft night? Well KP was never in a million years declining and extension and playing on the QO. If you believed that you are a weak minded gullible moron. KP was getting his money.
What about matching? If we signed him to the extension and traded him to the Mavericks we'd have had Tommy and Lee on our books, and Deandre Jordan would have expired. Could we have done the deal anyway?
Well in season KP was only $5.6 million on their books, but absorbing Tom and Lee was 19.2 and 12.2 (~31.4) in a draft trade assuming KP signed the same max extension it would have been $27.3 to match or absorb into cap space.
So there wasn't anything about the money that mattered too much for Dallas, KPs low cap hold is muted by Tom and Lee's dead money. You can make a slight argument that Tommy is a rotation level player and thus his 'real' value should be like $9 million.
So, my point is Dallas would have done the same deal on draft night. Assuming Dallas still dumps Barnes the Knicks would also have another young player to cherry pick from the Mavs. The Mavs would have also then had room to absorb KP, MeAndre Jordan would be off the books, Barnes was gone and their cap would be pretty lean.
So if Dallas would have done the same deal on draft night what would Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb known.
We weren't getting KD, or even better that we shouldn't want him since he just suffered one of the worst injuries you can in hoops at age 31.
Kyrie thank god signed with the Nets so that bullet was removed from the gun Mills has pointed at this franchise.
Also, we know we weren't getting one of the two great players in the draft. Zion most notably. Getting Zion would have justified going in on a starter level free agent like Brogdon let's say, and then if you wanted to make room for him you could stretch Joweed Noah.
Again, KPs value wouldn't have changed at all. Any team that wants him, wants the extension, his health is no different. They could work him out, etc..
Knowing at that point that 2019 cap space has no value to a team where no good young player is coming would be the greatest piece of information. Then any KP suitors would have to come to the Knicks with comparable young talent or picks, and the Knicks could take on bad money for the upcoming season (or beyond if Mills had any clue at all). Teams like Phoenix, Minnesota, Boston, Pacers and the Bucks come to mind.
Someday at a GM conference somebody will give a presentation on how not to run a franchise and how to do the worst deals, at the worst time, with the least information and the least leverage and Mills face will be on the **** power point.
