Trade Thread Part Deux

MagicBagley18 · Post #161 » by **MagicBagley18** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:42 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Hayward isnt going to get more than 20M per year on the open market. I just dont see it, to be honest.

Neither of us or anyone here saw horford getting what he got from Philly. Hayward is 16/6/5 IMO someone will pay him

CelticsLV · Post #162 » by **CelticsLV** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:46 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Hayward isnt going to get more than 20M per year on the open market. I just dont see it, to be honest.

Just like Horford? Could easily see a team like Grizzlies throw a 4/120 deal at him. They seem to be way ahead of their development and gonna have plenty of cap room. Hawks are another team which will have stupendous amounts of cap space (more than 2 max slots) and they will be pressured by Trae to get help.

Wes-J · Post #163 » by **Wes-J** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:52 pm

Still Ainge trading Hayward? I mean anything can happen but I still don't see realistic scenarios.

Somebody help me with those scenarios that don't involve playoff OKC, Drummond, and Love.

fallguy · Post #164 » by **fallguy** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:55 pm

That Hayward injury **** everything.

100proof · Post #165 » by **100proof** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:02 pm

Wes-J wrote:Still Ainge trading Hayward? I mean anything can happen but I still don't see realistic scenarios.

Somebody help me with those scenarios that don't involve playoff OKC, Drummond, and Love.

Orlando, maybe golden state, indiana, toronto to name a few.

Curmudgeon · Post #166 » by **Curmudgeon** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:05 pm

CelticsLV wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Hayward isnt going to get more than 20M per year on the open market. I just dont see it, to be honest.

Just like Horford? Could easily see a team like Grizzlies throw a 4/120 deal at him. They seem to be way ahead of their development and gonna have plenty of cap room. Hawks are another team which will have stupendous amounts of cap space (more than 2 max slots) and they will be pressured by Trae to get help.

If some other team offers Hayward 4/120 I'll wish him well and offer to drive him to the airport.

I don't see a Hayward trade happening. His foot issue substantially lowers his value around the league. He's still a fine player when 100%. Use him sparingly until the playoffs.

Post #167 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:08 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Hayward isnt going to get more than 20M per year on the open market. I just dont see it, to be honest.

Neither of us or anyone here saw horford getting what he got from Philly. Hayward is 16/6/5 IMO someone will pay him

Except I did:

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Honestly think he’ll get a 4/100 deal, if not more. Every team could use a guy like Horford and many teams have money to spend.

Id try to have him opt in and then give him a 3/70 extension.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1835178&p=75019614&hilit=Horford#p75019614

Thats me from last May.

The market last year was way more conducive for people to get paid and Horford is a significantly better player than Hayward is today. He may crack 20, but it wont be by much.

Memphis, Atlanta and Cleveland are the best fits for him and those are pretty big stretches at that. This would be a bad year for him to opt out.

Post #168 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:10 pm

CelticsLV wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Hayward isnt going to get more than 20M per year on the open market. I just dont see it, to be honest.

Just like Horford? Could easily see a team like Grizzlies throw a 4/120 deal at him. They seem to be way ahead of their development and gonna have plenty of cap room. Hawks are another team which will have stupendous amounts of cap space (more than 2 max slots) and they will be pressured by Trae to get help.

See my last post, I had Horfords deal down pretty damn well last year.

Doubt Memphis will look to rush things after Parsons. My guess is that they look to roll over their cap space to the much deeper 2021 class. Guessing the Hawks look to do that as well.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #169 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:18 pm

The best bet would still be sending Hayward to Miami for Winslow and filler contracts - he goes to a team he almost joined in free agency, we send him to a more competitive situation, we pick up a younger player with plenty of upside. But it depends on having a third team to take those filler contracts and send us value..

Hayward, Wanamaker, Ojeleye to MIA, Olynyk and Poirier to SAC, Dragic to Orlando, Winslow, Dedmon. Aaron Gordon to BOS?

Curmudgeon · Post #170 » by **Curmudgeon** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:24 pm

Orlando laughs at that. You couldn't get Aaron Gordon straight up for Hayward even if the salaries matched.
You could probably get Love for Hayward, or Andrew Wiggins. That's because those players have terrible contracts that are longer than Hayward's contract. Plus Cleveland doesn't want love because the Cavs are rebuilding, and MN doesn't want Wiggins because he's not very good.
But neither of those deals make the Celtics better, and both of them put the Celtics in luxury tax hell when its Tatum's turn to get paid.

100proof · Post #171 » by **100proof** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:26 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:The best bet would still be sending Hayward to Miami for Winslow and filler contracts - he goes to a team he almost joined in free agency, we send him to a more competitive situation, we pick up a younger player with plenty of upside. But it depends on having a third team to take those filler contracts and send us value..

Hayward, Wanamaker, Ojeleye to MIA, Olynyk and Poirier to SAC, Dragic to Orlando, Winslow, Dedmon. Aaron Gordon to BOS?

Winslow is broken right now inst he?

And as opposed to both winslow and gordon, i would rather 1 of them and a proper center.

MagicBagley18 · Post #172 » by **MagicBagley18** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:45 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Hayward isnt going to get more than 20M per year on the open market. I just dont see it, to be honest.

Neither of us or anyone here saw horford getting what he got from Philly. Hayward is 16/6/5 IMO someone will pay him

Except I did:

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Honestly think he’ll get a 4/100 deal, if not more. Every team could use a guy like Horford and many teams have money to spend.

Id try to have him opt in and then give him a 3/70 extension.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1835178&p=75019614&hilit=Horford#p75019614

Thats me from last May.

The market last year was way more conducive for people to get paid and Horford is a significantly better player than Hayward is today. He may crack 20, but it wont be by much.

Memphis, Atlanta and Cleveland are the best fits for him and those are pretty big stretches at that. This would be a bad year for him to opt out.

Outside of you then the overwhelmingly majority of ppl did not. I’m one of them. Most people didn’t either. You did. Kudos. that being said I still think Hayward will get 25m at minimum

Post #173 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:46 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Orlando laughs at that. You couldn't get Aaron Gordon straight up for Hayward even if the salaries matched.
You could probably get Love for Hayward, or Andrew Wiggins. That's because those players have terrible contracts that are longer than Hayward's contract. Plus Cleveland doesn't want love because the Cavs are rebuilding, and MN doesn't want Wiggins because he's not very good.
But neither of those deals make the Celtics better, and both of them put the Celtics in luxury tax hell when its Tatum's turn to get paid.

... Aaron Gordon is a bad contract though.

Post #174 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:49 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Neither of us or anyone here saw horford getting what he got from Philly. Hayward is 16/6/5 IMO someone will pay him

Except I did:

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Honestly think he’ll get a 4/100 deal, if not more. Every team could use a guy like Horford and many teams have money to spend.

Id try to have him opt in and then give him a 3/70 extension.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1835178&p=75019614&hilit=Horford#p75019614

Thats me from last May.

The market last year was way more conducive for people to get paid and Horford is a significantly better player than Hayward is today. He may crack 20, but it wont be by much.

Memphis, Atlanta and Cleveland are the best fits for him and those are pretty big stretches at that. This would be a bad year for him to opt out.

Outside of you then the overwhelmingly majority of ppl did not. I’m one of them. Most people didn’t either. You did. Kudos. that being said I still think Hayward will get 25m at minimum

I’d be shocked if he opted out, personally. Guessing he’d rather be a FA in 2021 when pretty much every team has cap space.

batabatuta · Post #175 » by **batabatuta** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:51 pm

ddb wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:There are no good free agents next season & the teams with money are historically poorly ran. if Hayward finishes the the season healthy and average 16/5/5 and has a few good playoff games here and there- a team will take a chance on him and offer him something at or close to 30 million. Maybe it’s not exactly there but 4/100 but he’s going to get paid.

there are similarities fiscally to the Jaylen brown situation in some ways the caveat being with brown he was 22 years old and we still had upside in our favor. With Hayward we are kind of backed into a corner now with Hayward where we won’t get the value for him as is and if we let him walk we don’t really get flexibility.

The team’s ceiling with a healthy and confident (that’s also the key) Hayward is still highest WITH him than some of the moves proposed here. it’s possible that at the deadline teams like Memphis try to make a playoff run and trade for guys that they have interest in this offseason and the same goes for Atlanta minus the playoff push and then a Hayward market dries up nicely but at the end of the day all it takes is one team to throw that money at him and he’ll get it.

I think Hayward came to Boston to win a Championship. Unlike Horford, I think Hayward is more likely to opt out and then sign here long-term at a discount. However, there's also the possibility that he may feel like things haven't quite worked out in Boston....in that event he could want to move on.

I think his ambitions of winning a chip in Boston sailed when he realized Tatum and Brown are near all-star level development. Soon, there won't be enough room for 3 wings.

Curmudgeon · Post #176 » by **Curmudgeon** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:52 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Orlando laughs at that. You couldn't get Aaron Gordon straight up for Hayward even if the salaries matched.
You could probably get Love for Hayward, or Andrew Wiggins. That's because those players have terrible contracts that are longer than Hayward's contract. Plus Cleveland doesn't want love because the Cavs are rebuilding, and MN doesn't want Wiggins because he's not very good.
But neither of those deals make the Celtics better, and both of them put the Celtics in luxury tax hell when its Tatum's turn to get paid.

... Aaron Gordon is a bad contract though.

No he isn't. He's a bargain at less than 20M per year.

TheOGJabroni · Post #177 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:54 pm

Have we rehashed any Bradley Beal talk yet?

100proof · Post #178 » by **100proof** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:56 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Orlando laughs at that. You couldn't get Aaron Gordon straight up for Hayward even if the salaries matched.
You could probably get Love for Hayward, or Andrew Wiggins. That's because those players have terrible contracts that are longer than Hayward's contract. Plus Cleveland doesn't want love because the Cavs are rebuilding, and MN doesn't want Wiggins because he's not very good.
But neither of those deals make the Celtics better, and both of them put the Celtics in luxury tax hell when its Tatum's turn to get paid.

Hayward has more value than that

Post #179 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:59 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Orlando laughs at that. You couldn't get Aaron Gordon straight up for Hayward even if the salaries matched.
You could probably get Love for Hayward, or Andrew Wiggins. That's because those players have terrible contracts that are longer than Hayward's contract. Plus Cleveland doesn't want love because the Cavs are rebuilding, and MN doesn't want Wiggins because he's not very good.
But neither of those deals make the Celtics better, and both of them put the Celtics in luxury tax hell when its Tatum's turn to get paid.

... Aaron Gordon is a bad contract though.

No he isn't. He's a bargain at less than 20M per year.

Yah, 13-7-3 on 50% TS aint a bargain at 20M a year.

His defense is nice, but his offense is pathetic.

Bill Lumbergh · Post #180 » by **Bill Lumbergh** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:30 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
NuckyPowell wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
It's a matter of market value. 3/66 doesn't even get you in the game on Hayward, and would leave us as a 45-win team with no future or cap room.

And his market value is a matter of opinion until it's revealed this summer, if he opts out. You said earlier in this thread that you'd like to sign him for 3/90, which I want no part of. If somebody wants him for that, bon voyage, Gordon. Seriously, though, it'd be stupid to let him walk with no return, as we have no cap space. I'd rather trade him to keep cap flexibility. If that doesn't happen before Feb 5, we'll just have to wait and see what his market value is. There ARE dumb franchises out there, so you might be right, and he'll get 3/90. I don't see Wyc paying 4 guys ~ 30M a year unless they morph into Steph, Klay, Durant, & Draymond (and Draymond only gets that because they already had the other guys.)
He said he'd go deep into luxury tax for a real contender. Resigning Hayward basically keeps what we have now, in terms of headliners, and we're not a real contender. Regardless of my own likes, I don't think the Celtics resign him for 30M per. We'll just have to wait and see, though.

So solve the riddle, then. Barring a major injury, Hayward will likely opt out and get a much bigger contract than 3/66. With that knowledge, do you trade him at the deadline, and if so, for what? Or do you let him walk for nothing, and if so, what do we do from there?

Everything else is just white noise until people articulate a realistic plan. Speaking in non-specific generalities is not being intellectually engaged at all.

I would offer that 3/90 for Hayward carries little opportunity cost, and does little to limit our options, and that Jaylen is the one who has to go if we actually want a **** decent return.

I honestly don't know what we'll do. There are a number of unknowns that go into this. We don't know what Gordon will look like the rest of the season, which will set his market value. We don't know what Wyc's pain threshold is regarding luxury tax. Going by what he has already said, we think he'd pay whatever is necessary for a true contender, which we are not. Now, I'd rather not overpay Hayward to keep him, but moreso, I'd rather not lose him for nothing. But if we believe what Wyc has said, then he'll let Gordon walk before paying 3/90. So, I personally would opt for something that I think might be more palatable for Wyc (obviously conjecture), which is a trade to bring back someone or a couple of guys who will make (collectively) something less than what Gordon will next season, saving Wyc money, but keeping our options open for trades.

Danny gets paid to scour every team's roster and salary cap. I don't, and don't feel like investing the time to do so, but I am sure there are some trades to be made following that general framework that would make us every bit as competitive as if we retained Gordon, while paying less in luxury tax, and retaining flexibility for trades down the line, because I do think Wyc has a pain threshold that he will not exceed.

That's what I have. The framework for what I'd do. Non-specific on the players, and don't particularly care whether it's intellectually rigorous. It's a freakin sports board that I use for amusement.

Bottom line, I think 3/90 exceeds Wyc's pain threshold, so what's your plan B?