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Tatum and Brown, as 1-2 Options

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#661 » by sam_I_am » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:32 am

ddb wrote:I want to talk about Jayson Tatum for a post...Strictly Jayson Tatum. First of all, this kid is getting noticeably stronger. His shoulders/arms are bulking up and not in a bad way. He's shooting the ball better and with more confidence. He's developing into a plus defender getting into lanes and using his length to deflect passes and pick up steals. he's blocking shots. He's finishing around the rim.... We are getting closer and closer to this officially becoming Jayson Tatum's team. Could be as soon as after the All-Star break. Jayson Tatum isn't the perfect player at age 21, but he's surely evolving into a superstar.
I am so, so thankful that Danny Ainge held on to this kid. Lock him up long-term this summer and don't even think twice.


He is pretty damn close to being the perfect player even if he is far from the best. He has handles, long range, perfect form, length, athleticism and is impactful with rebounds, steals, blocks and defense. To put it another way.... with Tatum you get everything you want from your SF.... every box is checked. Giannis is better.....maybe Simmons too.....but there are huge gaps in their games despite dominant abilities. Once Jayson masters playmaking......watch out. If he can kill you with open 3s, step back 3s, mid range, isolations and drives......he will be deadly when he exploits his teammates with the pass. For 10 years.....the SF position I’d locked up. Just like with Pierce.....it’s a matter of reworking the rest of the roster and the job should be easier than it was in 2003.
"I think the criticism's stupid," Stevens said. "So I don't care. I'm with Jaylen (Brown) on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25 and 26 year olds ever had. I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out than suck."
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#662 » by GuyClinch » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:59 am

I am glad we didn't trade him or Brown.

But honestly Tatum has been pretty inefficient at times and only ranks 16th out of PFs (the position he is actually playing now). Maybe he would do better at the SF slot but Hayward despite appearing quite bleh at times ranks 11th in terms of PER.

Highlights and flashy play is great fun. But there have been quite a few nights where he just shoots his team out of the game. Not that Brown, Smart etc aren't guilty of that from time to time.

As far as play making goes - that ain't happening. Guy will get better at it - sure. But its a you got it or don't kind of thing for the most part - just like rebounding. He just doesn't project to be an excellent passer. I'd be excited if he just learned to make more obvious passes.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#663 » by exculpatory » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:16 am

sam_I_am wrote:
ddb wrote:I want to talk about Jayson Tatum for a post...Strictly Jayson Tatum. First of all, this kid is getting noticeably stronger. His shoulders/arms are bulking up and not in a bad way. He's shooting the ball better and with more confidence. He's developing into a plus defender getting into lanes and using his length to deflect passes and pick up steals. he's blocking shots. He's finishing around the rim.... We are getting closer and closer to this officially becoming Jayson Tatum's team. Could be as soon as after the All-Star break. Jayson Tatum isn't the perfect player at age 21, but he's surely evolving into a superstar.
I am so, so thankful that Danny Ainge held on to this kid. Lock him up long-term this summer and don't even think twice.


He is pretty damn close to being the perfect player even if he is far from the best. He has handles, long range, perfect form, length, athleticism and is impactful with rebounds, steals, blocks and defense. To put it another way.... with Tatum you get everything you want from your SF.... every box is checked. Giannis is better.....maybe Simmons too.....but there are huge gaps in their games despite dominant abilities. Once Jayson masters playmaking......watch out. If he can kill you with open 3s, step back 3s, mid range, isolations and drives......he will be deadly when he exploits his teammates with the pass. For 10 years.....the SF position I’d locked up. Just like with Pierce.....it’s a matter of reworking the rest of the roster and the job should be easier than it was in 2003.


Yup.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#664 » by Floody100 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:36 am

GuyClinch wrote:As far as play making goes - that ain't happening. Guy will get better at it - sure. But its a you got it or don't kind of thing for the most part - just like rebounding. He just doesn't project to be an excellent passer. I'd be excited if he just learned to make more obvious passes.


Kawhi Leonard would tell you otherwise.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#665 » by ddb » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:28 pm

Tatum > Simmons 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Not just saying that because I'm a Celtics fan.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#666 » by K For Three » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:37 am

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#667 » by London2Boston » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:43 am

ddb wrote:Tatum > Simmons 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Not just saying that because I'm a Celtics fan.


Easy.

Honestly feel like I will take Brown soon enough too.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#668 » by FlatearthZorro » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:29 am

London2Boston wrote:
ddb wrote:Tatum > Simmons 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Not just saying that because I'm a Celtics fan.


Easy.

Honestly feel like I will take Brown soon enough too.


That's super easy, cause Simmons can't do **** in the playoffs, basically every year. Last year the good thing people were saying about him is that "he plays good defense" when the PS came. That's not much for #1 pick. Kid's still really good, his game just doesn't translate well into how teams play in this era. He does well in the regular season, has averaged fairly similar stats in around 4 seasons of play, problem is when the playoffs come, teams zone in on him and double off of him, cause they know he wont shoot it.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#669 » by zoyathedestroya » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:17 am

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Hey, so it's not that hard to support your young, up-and-coming teammates instead of throwing them under the bus. Huh.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#670 » by 3D Chess » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:06 pm

Zach Lowe put Brown over Tatum in his all-star team, and stated they are equals on defense. Zach, wtf?

Don't want to accuse him of not watching the games, but, maybe he isn't watching the games? He has basically defaulted to Brown having a better TS% than Tatum as the sole reason for picking him.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#671 » by Feed Your Head » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:13 pm

3D Chess wrote:Zach Lowe put Brown over Tatum in his all-star team, and stated they are equals on defense. Zach, wtf?

Don't want to accuse him of not watching the games, but, maybe he isn't watching the games? He has basically defaulted to Brown having a better TS% than Tatum as the sole reason for picking him.


Maybe after December i could have seen Jaylen having a case over Tatum, though i still would have picked Tatum. But now? Pretty clear who deserves it IMO. But i may get accused of being a Tatum fanboy, when in reality I'm just a fanboy for winning players.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#672 » by BostonCouchGM » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:27 pm

London2Boston wrote:
ddb wrote:Tatum > Simmons 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Not just saying that because I'm a Celtics fan.


Easy.

Honestly feel like I will take Brown soon enough too.


not a single NBA G.M. would take Brown over Simmons for good reason. There are tiers to this and Jaylen is a couple below Simmons
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#673 » by BostonCouchGM » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:32 pm

FlatearthZorro wrote:
London2Boston wrote:
ddb wrote:Tatum > Simmons 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Not just saying that because I'm a Celtics fan.


Easy.

Honestly feel like I will take Brown soon enough too.


That's super easy, cause Simmons can't do **** in the playoffs, basically every year. Last year the good thing people were saying about him is that "he plays good defense" when the PS came. That's not much for #1 pick. Kid's still really good, his game just doesn't translate well into how teams play in this era. He does well in the regular season, has averaged fairly similar stats in around 4 seasons of play, problem is when the playoffs come, teams zone in on him and double off of him, cause they know he wont shoot it.


except that his numbers in his first playoff were almost identical to his regular seasons and he's only been to two playoffs so "basically every year" is disingenuous. Oh, and he was 22 years old and his numbers didn't drop considerably last playoffs. He's got a big clogging up the middle which gets in the way of what he does best. It's a system and personnel issue. I wonder if people take the time to consider context. Like, he was playing better teams with better defenses and coaching?
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#674 » by FlatearthZorro » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:40 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
London2Boston wrote:
Easy.

Honestly feel like I will take Brown soon enough too.


That's super easy, cause Simmons can't do **** in the playoffs, basically every year. Last year the good thing people were saying about him is that "he plays good defense" when the PS came. That's not much for #1 pick. Kid's still really good, his game just doesn't translate well into how teams play in this era. He does well in the regular season, has averaged fairly similar stats in around 4 seasons of play, problem is when the playoffs come, teams zone in on him and double off of him, cause they know he wont shoot it.


except that his numbers in his first playoff were almost identical to his regular seasons and he's only been to two playoffs so "basically every year" is disingenuous. Oh, and he was 22 years old and his numbers didn't drop considerably last playoffs. He's got a big clogging up the middle which gets in the way of what he does best. It's a system and personnel issue. I wonder if people take the time to consider context. Like, he was playing better teams with better defenses and coaching?


The thing is the 6ers need to pick between him and Embiid. Sadly, the 2 of them don't work cause Simmons can't shoot a lick. Imo, when healthy Embiid is better, both seem like douchy kids to me, but Embiid is more effective, overall. I do believe that if for example the Sixers trade Embiid for an elite shooter/all-star they'd be better than having both Simmons and Embiid but that's another subject. Still non-shooting, PG-PFs aren't too popular in today's game and we managed to humiliate the guy 2 years ago, last year the Raptors did, which isn't great for Simmons, is it?
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#675 » by Feed Your Head » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:46 pm

Id take Tatum over Simmons. Simmons has gone off this month without Embiid (21/8/10), but the team is not playing very good. Those two just aren't a good fit, i'd choose Embiid all day if I was them, easily at that.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#676 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:42 am

Media really dislikes Tatum relatively. Fans and players had him as the 5th best forward, Media had him tied with Drummond, Tacko and Middleton.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#677 » by Feed Your Head » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:45 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Media really dislikes Tatum relatively. Fans and players had him as the 5th best forward, Media had him tied with Drummond, Tacko and Middleton.


Consider who makes up most of the media.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#678 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:46 am

The Comedian wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Media really dislikes Tatum relatively. Fans and players had him as the 5th best forward, Media had him tied with Drummond, Tacko and Middleton.


Consider who makes up most of the media.


Just super funny to me, given how so many declare him media hype. Happy the players gave him the respect he deserves.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#679 » by Feed Your Head » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:51 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Media really dislikes Tatum relatively. Fans and players had him as the 5th best forward, Media had him tied with Drummond, Tacko and Middleton.


Consider who makes up most of the media.


Just super funny to me, given how so many declare him media hype. Happy the players gave him the respect he deserves.


Him, Butler, and Bam should both be the biggest locks for reserves IMO. Agree about players giving him the respect, they watch him bust his ass on both sides of the ball. Pop said he can count on one hand how many legit two way wings there are, and that Tatum is one of them.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#680 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:54 am

The Comedian wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
Consider who makes up most of the media.


Just super funny to me, given how so many declare him media hype. Happy the players gave him the respect he deserves.


Him, Butler, and Bam should both be the biggest locks for reserves IMO. Agree about players giving him the respect, they watch him bust his ass on both sides of the ball. Pop said he can count on one hand how many legit two way wings there are, and that Tatum is one of them.


Agreed. Makes no sense how Siakam is a lock when Tatum is fringe when theyre virtually identical per 36. But media hypes the hell out of Siakam...

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