PG - The bum slayers

[coldfish]

The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

[wonderboy2]

The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

You can add Sato as not being a high IQ player as well. He constantly miss cutters diving to the basket. Me being a point guard I see so many opportunities each game where Sato just doesn’t misses the right passes. He does do a decent job of delivering the passes once he see them though.

[MrSparkle]

The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

You can add Sato as not being a high IQ player as well. He constantly miss cutters diving to the basket. Me being a point guard I see so many opportunities each game where Sato just doesn’t misses the right passes. He does do a decent job of delivering the passes once he see them though.

I don't think that's poor IQ. Delivering assists to cutters on an iso-oriented team is hardly an easy task, especially in today's paint or 3P congested defenses and a system where 4 guys usually stand still. It's like a high-risk turnover waiting to happen unless you're a scoring threat like Paul or Doncic, who averages 4.3 TOV, on that note.

This is a "low-risk" offense that makes static passes around or to the perimeter, with no focal play-maker. To the point of total boredom. Teams load up on the Bulls' offensive option(s) (cough, Zach).

Who is cutting? Wendell Carter was doing a crap job initiating motion towards the basket before his injury. Lauri and Thad have camped on the weak-side 3P lines. There are no wings in the rotation besides Hutchinson - Coby, Dunn, Arci are terrible finishers by PG standards, let alone as small wings. Hutchinson is a horrible finisher and has bad hands.

IMO there just isn't anything to work with for Sato to make risky passes to cutters. Zach is getting doubled, and Gafford is out. Besides for making more 3P shots, the only other thing is running more picks and screens to free up Lauri/Kornet/Thad for open mid-range looks. It would atleast open up the paint a little bit.

[Jcool0]

The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

[MrSparkle]

The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

Honestly.

Zach is doing pretty well adjusting and learning as a first option, and his defensive awareness has improved a lot in the last year. He didn't have much of a direction besides chucking shots last year, but at this point, it's he's doing well reading double-teams/traps and figuring out how to score against them. He hasn't shown an ability to make a great pass, but a player that can score 25 ppg and do that is a generational superstar: Kawhi, Lebron, Luka, Giannis, Harden, Curry. Can we be fair to $20M Zach and not hold him to that standard?

I would consider JR Smith, Gerald Green, Nick Young and Caldwell-Pope to be low-IQ players. They can shoot, they have size and athleticism, but they're BB (and life) IQ leaves a bit to be desired. Zach isn't Einstein but he recognizes his flaws and has clearly made an effort to adjust, which is more than you can say for the rest.

[AKfanatic]

The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

It’s not just about a few bad shots a game.

It’s a “feel” for the game that fans can see when watching certain players. Some guys just know where to move without the ball, where to swing the ball, where and when to rotate on D, how the ball is likely to come off the rim for rebounds.

The Bulls don’t have a guy that has shown high level instincts, feel, IQ, whatever you’d like to call it. Teams need those guys to win.

[MrSparkle]

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

It’s not just about a few bad shots a game.

It’s a “feel” for the game that fans can see when watching certain players. Some guys just know where to move without the ball, where to swing the ball, where and when to rotate on D, how the ball is likely to come off the rim for rebounds.

The Bulls don’t have a guy that has shown high level instincts, feel, IQ, whatever you’d like to call it. Teams need those guys to win.

You don't think part of it ... is having less size than almost every other team in the NBA?

I'm pretty sure Javale McGee and Dwight Howard they will demonstrate higher level instincts and IQ with their rebounding, rotations and loose balls as opposed to a front court that includes Lauri, Kornet and pick your SF: Coby/Dunn/Arci/Sato.

The IQ measurement machine just exploded.

[Hugi Mancura]

Majority of Bulls have low basketball IQ (don't know about their general IQ). Zach and Lauri do all the time wrong reads. Especially with help defense. Is it low IQ or is it the inability to read the game there's no much difference. Luckily for them they are not alone in this Bulls team. I would say WCJ shows promise, but he is still young and young players tend to do stupid mistakes. When you grew older you usually get rid of those mistakes. Other's show some ability. Dunn does good defensive reads and so does Sato. It's no surprise those 3 (WCJ, Sato and Dunn) have highest on/off stats in this team and biggest positive impact on winning games. But I wouldn't count them as high IQ players either. Both Dunn and WCJ are quite invisible in offense and Sato just disappears lot's of time. So if they have the highest IQ and still are average when talking about basketball IQ in general it's no surprise they have hard time winning.

If people think Bulls players overall has good IQ think about this. People say Boylen is idiot. Well, I think so too, so not disagreeing with those people. People say he doesn't make adjustments during the game to help team win. But he is not playing; players are. What is stopping them to make the adjustment to win these games? If they have high basketball IQ why they are not doing those necessary changes? They should be able to see in their eyes the ways to win games, but they are doing the same thing they did earlier. They are not making adjustments either.

[PaKii94]

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

Honestly.

Zach is doing pretty well adjusting and learning as a first option, and his defensive awareness has improved a lot in the last year. He didn't have much of a direction besides chucking shots last year, but at this point, it's he's doing well reading double-teams/traps and figuring out how to score against them. He hasn't shown an ability to make a great pass, but a player that can score 25 ppg and do that is a generational superstar: Kawhi, Lebron, Luka, Giannis, Harden, Curry. Can we be fair to $20M Zach and not hold him to that standard?

I would consider JR Smith, Gerald Green, Nick Young and Caldwell-Pope to be low-IQ players. They can shoot, they have size and athleticism, but they're BB (and life) IQ leaves a bit to be desired. Zach isn't Einstein but he recognizes his flaws and has clearly made an effort to adjust, which is more than you can say for the rest.

Zach is definitely a low BBall IQ player lol. That's not something made up. I think what distinguishes Zach from the other "low IQ" players you mentioned though is Zach's effort. Zach from what I've seen/read has a great work ethic. He's making an effort to learn and that's causing growing pains. Those other players didn't both improving/learning and continued their bad habits.

The bad shots have been discussed ad nauseam. Those he has been cutting down. The other problem is him trying to make the right play is negatively affecting his own offensive game. More often than not, Zach hesitates trying to make the right read instead of just letting it fly. This hesitation is a split second long enough that it allows the defender to crowd him and then he has to put up a tough shot instead of an easy in rhythm shot. He still needs to learn when the put the scorer blinders on and when to pass. This was again the case last night. Look at his full highlights from the game:

Watch on YouTube

0:07
1:27
1:40
2:23
3:56
4:40
5:10

A few of these he made them but he cranked up the difficulty of these shots from like 3-5 to 7-8 out of 10. 7 out of 18 shots is a big number and that's probably a majority of his jump shots (not including drives to the paint)

Look how beautiful his shot looks when he doesn't hesitate - 5:40

The flaw with this is it takes years of experience to get to an average BBall IQ and I don't think you can get above that with just experience.Some players have just have that IT BBall IQ factor. It took Zach 6 years to get to this point in the league. We don't have another 6 years to wait for him to be adequate.

Thus I want to simplify his role. If you have an open shot, let it fly. If you don't pass it along. You don't have to make the best read, just make a timely one. I think that would reduce the hesitation moments we see from him and let's him focus on the thing he is elite in: shot making

[coldfish]

The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

That just doesn't have anything to do with basketball.

https://www.basketballforcoaches.com/basketball-iq/

Basketball IQ is the ability to pick up on small cues during play that will allow players to anticipate what’s going to happen next with a higher probability.

This requires deep knowledge of the game and a sharp eye for detail.

Basketball IQ is a commonly used term and by most definitions, the Bulls' players don't have it. I'm not sure how to reply because if you aren't familiar with "basketball IQ" and why the Bulls don't have it then its hard to even discuss. Unless your post is just to fit your typical narrative here where nothing can be discussed that you don't like.

[Jcool0]

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

That just doesn't have anything to do with basketball.

https://www.basketballforcoaches.com/basketball-iq/

Basketball IQ is the ability to pick up on small cues during play that will allow players to anticipate what’s going to happen next with a higher probability.

This requires deep knowledge of the game and a sharp eye for detail.

Basketball IQ is a commonly used term and by most definitions, the Bulls' players don't have it. I'm not sure how to reply because if you aren't familiar with "basketball IQ" and why the Bulls don't have it then its hard to even discuss. Unless your post is just to fit your typical narrative here where nothing can be discussed that you don't like.

[Jcool0]

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

Honestly.

Zach is doing pretty well adjusting and learning as a first option, and his defensive awareness has improved a lot in the last year. He didn't have much of a direction besides chucking shots last year, but at this point, it's he's doing well reading double-teams/traps and figuring out how to score against them. He hasn't shown an ability to make a great pass, but a player that can score 25 ppg and do that is a generational superstar: Kawhi, Lebron, Luka, Giannis, Harden, Curry. Can we be fair to $20M Zach and not hold him to that standard?

I would consider JR Smith, Gerald Green, Nick Young and Caldwell-Pope to be low-IQ players. They can shoot, they have size and athleticism, but they're BB (and life) IQ leaves a bit to be desired. Zach isn't Einstein but he recognizes his flaws and has clearly made an effort to adjust, which is more than you can say for the rest.

Zach is definitely a low BBall IQ player lol. That's not something made up.

no it is.

[coldfish]

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

That just doesn't have anything to do with basketball.

https://www.basketballforcoaches.com/basketball-iq/

Basketball IQ is the ability to pick up on small cues during play that will allow players to anticipate what’s going to happen next with a higher probability.

This requires deep knowledge of the game and a sharp eye for detail.

Basketball IQ is a commonly used term and by most definitions, the Bulls' players don't have it. I'm not sure how to reply because if you aren't familiar with "basketball IQ" and why the Bulls don't have it then its hard to even discuss. Unless your post is just to fit your typical narrative here where nothing can be discussed that you don't like.

You seriously aren't familiar with the term "basketball IQ", are you? That explains a lot of things.

[Jcool0]

That just doesn't have anything to do with basketball.

https://www.basketballforcoaches.com/basketball-iq/



Basketball IQ is a commonly used term and by most definitions, the Bulls' players don't have it. I'm not sure how to reply because if you aren't familiar with "basketball IQ" and why the Bulls don't have it then its hard to even discuss. Unless your post is just to fit your typical narrative here where nothing can be discussed that you don't like.

You seriously aren't familiar with the term "basketball IQ", are you? That explains a lot of things.

Just becasue you read something doesnt make you an expert.

[coldfish]

You seriously aren't familiar with the term "basketball IQ", are you? That explains a lot of things.

Just becasue you read something doesnt make you an expert.

Do you have anything to add to this conversation? You disagreed with my assertion of the team as having a number of low basketball IQ players. As usual, you were unable to come up with an intelligent response and just go to virtriolic one liners and gifs.

Go ahead and prove I'm not an expert if you feel so strongly. Put together a well thought out post with supporting information covering your point.

[Peelboy]

Random fact potentially interesting to no one but me: The three high scorers to beat the Wolves are the 3 players the Bulls got in the trade w the Wolves: Lavine (25), Lauri (21), Dunn (15). Also the 3 starters with positive +/-.

Lauri looked more engaged, not just because he hit shots but offensively trying to take it to the hoop, moving aggressively without the ball, etc. That helped a ton. And man are the Wolves bad outside of Towns, who was basically unguardable (albiet being guarded by Kornet/Felicio helps). Wiggins had the worst 10-19, 25 pt game I think I've seen. One hot stretch with a couple of threes but otherwise barely noticeable.

[RedBulls23]

You're not going to derail a conversation just because you don't like what's being discussed.

On top of that responding with a nonsensical gif like this is just trolling.

[weneeda2guard]

The really frustrating thing is that while you can pick apart this teams’ athleticism, speed and length... these are all relatively high IQ and/or extremely coachable players with great attitudes.

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

I'm kinda tired of hearing about levels of basketball IQ from a bunch of people who dont play basketball themselves. A lot of young players have so called low basketball iq. That's why it takes time for them to learn how to win and adjust to nba championship caliber systems that produce winning.

We are a long way from worrying about who has the intelligence to win anything we are in deep need of just pure talent. As these players mature they will get smarter but right now we dont even have another quality 20 point scorer other than lavine. If anyone expects me to believe if lavine was smarter it would equal more winning for us sorry not buying it. Lebron is one of the smartest basketball players ever and he missed the playoffs last year not because he lacked high basketball IQ but because his team didnt have the talent. We need more talent.

[MrSparkle]

I disagree with that to an extent. They might seem like nice players with good attitudes but none of them strike me as super high basketball IQ guys. Someone pointed out in the NBA thread that Zion had more high IQ plays last night than some of the Bulls have had in their careers.
- Zach is not a high IQ player
- Coby seems to be a low IQ player
- Lauri doesn't seem to be a high IQ player
- Dunn seems like he only started "getting it" this year

Wendell and Otto seem like good basketball IQ guys but they are out all the time.

Side note: There is a difference between high IQ and high basketball IQ. I think I'm reasonably smart but at game speed, I make a lot of dumb decisions when I play.

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

I'm kinda tired of hearing about levels of basketball IQ from a bunch of people who dont play basketball themselves. A lot of young players have so called low basketball iq. That's why it takes time for them to learn how to win and adjust to nba championship caliber systems that produce winning.

We are a long way from worrying about who has the intelligence to win anything we are in deep need of just pure talent. As these players mature they will get smarter but right now we dont even have another quality 20 point scorer other than lavine. If anyone expects me to believe if lavine was smarter it would equal more winning for us sorry not buying it. Lebron is one of the smartest basketball players ever and he missed the playoffs last year not because he lacked high basketball IQ but because his team didnt have the talent. We need more talent.

It's true - Birds, Magics, Lukas, Duncans are highly unusual, and you gotta say that each guy entered a rather elite organization/coaching staff with HOF/champ-caliber vets and pedigree.

Even Jordan and Lebron needed about 5+ years and a system (and all-star teammates) before they really "figured it out."

Rose was a "low-IQ" super talent - it was get the ball and take it to the hole. If he had his current IQ and pacing with his youth and health, the kid might've conquered the Miami cHeat in 2011.

LaVine is just a less dominant player than all the guys, plus his ACL happened right as he started performing like into a starter-caliber player... which means he also missed about 1.5 years of crucial early development... and he had a short UCLA college stint... so it's just entirely unfair to the guy to call him a moron.

He was hard to watch last year, but he's overcome some pretty strong adversity. I wouldn't call him "high IQ", because I'd reserve that for the Kidds and the Lebrons, but I also wouldn't call him low IQ - that's for barely coachable chuckers (which there are a lot of, in the NBA).

[Indomitable]

Can we stop with the IQ nonsese. Its like just something you make up to fit your narative. I mean just because Zach jacks up 3-4 bad shots a game does not mean he is not a high IQ player. It means he is on a team with almost no other scorers on it.

I'm kinda tired of hearing about levels of basketball IQ from a bunch of people who dont play basketball themselves. A lot of young players have so called low basketball iq. That's why it takes time for them to learn how to win and adjust to nba championship caliber systems that produce winning.

We are a long way from worrying about who has the intelligence to win anything we are in deep need of just pure talent. As these players mature they will get smarter but right now we dont even have another quality 20 point scorer other than lavine. If anyone expects me to believe if lavine was smarter it would equal more winning for us sorry not buying it. Lebron is one of the smartest basketball players ever and he missed the playoffs last year not because he lacked high basketball IQ but because his team didnt have the talent. We need more talent.

It's true - Birds, Magics, Lukas, Duncans are highly unusual, and you gotta say that each guy entered a rather elite organization/coaching staff with HOF/champ-caliber vets and pedigree.

Even Jordan and Lebron needed about 5+ years and a system (and all-star teammates) before they really "figured it out."

Rose was a "low-IQ" super talent - it was get the ball and take it to the hole. If he had his current IQ and pacing with his youth and health, the kid might've conquered the Miami cHeat in 2011.

LaVine is just a less dominant player than all the guys, plus his ACL happened right as he started performing like into a starter-caliber player... which means he also missed about 1.5 years of crucial early development... and he had a short UCLA college stint... so it's just entirely unfair to the guy to call him a moron.

He was hard to watch last year, but he's overcome some pretty strong adversity. I wouldn't call him "high IQ", because I'd reserve that for the Kidds and the Lebrons, but I also wouldn't call him low IQ - that's for barely coachable chuckers (which there are a lot of, in the NBA).

Nick Young is low IQ. Lavine is not a savant but he is capable. That is more then I can say for most of the roster.