2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

Post #101 » by **ATTL** » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:05 pm

Why isn't paul Reed ranked higher? He looks long, averages 16/11 with 3 blocks and 2 steals. 82 defensive rating.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #102 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:23 pm

ATTL wrote:Why isn't paul Reed ranked higher? He looks long, averages 16/11 with 3 blocks and 2 steals. 82 defensive rating.

I get the low ranking relative to his college production. He's light for an NBA PF and it's unclear (to me at least) how the speed of the NBA will affect him. But more importantly, he's a junior. In a normal draft I'd say he looks like a solid mid-first prospect. In this draft, slightly higher. It's just that he looks like a role player, and teams generally don't like to use lotto picks to grab role players.

I actually think Tyler Bey projects as the better player. He just plays the wrong position for us. Despite that, I'd strongly consider drafting him as an alternative to Paul Reed.

What do people think of Precious Achiuwa as another alternative to Reed? I've noticed bw has Nnaji as his profile pic, but haven't heard much about him, either. Of course, we shouldn't be narrowly focused on the 4, since we so badly need a backup 2 and probably a backup 5 as well after Baynes moves on this summer... though I'd be wary of drafting a traditional 5, as they typically take a few years to develop, and the starter spot at that position is obviously locked down for the foreseeable future. I'm not all that enamored with this year's SG prospects, though I could very easily be missing someone as I don't watch a lot of NCAA ball.

Post #103 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:50 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
ATTL wrote:Why isn't paul Reed ranked higher? He looks long, averages 16/11 with 3 blocks and 2 steals. 82 defensive rating.

I get the low ranking relative to his college production. He's light for an NBA PF and it's unclear (to me at least) how the speed of the NBA will affect him. But more importantly, he's a junior. In a normal draft I'd say he looks like a solid mid-first prospect. In this draft, slightly higher. It's just that he looks like a role player, and teams generally don't like to use lotto picks to grab role players.

I actually think Tyler Bey projects as the better player. He just plays the wrong position for us. Despite that, I'd strongly consider drafting him as an alternative to Paul Reed.

What do people think of Precious Achiuwa as another alternative to Reed? I've noticed bw has Nnaji as his profile pic, but haven't heard much about him, either. Of course, we shouldn't be narrowly focused on the 4, since we so badly need a backup 2 and probably a backup 5 as well after Baynes moves on this summer... though I'd be wary of drafting a traditional 5, as they typically take a few years to develop, and the starter spot at that position is obviously locked down for the foreseeable future. I'm not all that enamored with this year's SG prospects, though I could very easily be missing someone as I don't watch a lot of NCAA ball.

Bey didn't do so well going up against Nnaji last night...

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401170670

ESPN also has Nnaji ranked 46 spots ahead of Bey.

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable

They have Precious ranked 11 which could be around our range.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #104 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:24 am

Stark wrote:Zubac is solid but really doesn't fit our team. I would probably hold onto Baynes to not screw the chemistry as long as he doesn't demand a trade. Our biggest need is for this season is a guard who can give us a scoring punch and leadership from the bench. (f. you Tyler) Okobo is volatile and needs confidence he reminds me of trash version of Dragic before his explosion. Jerome is a huge disappointment, like everyone i was so excited about him but he might become our new Tyler Ennis/Kendall Marshall.It's mind boggling why we don't send the dude to G-league. Carter is a good shooter and a defender but he cannot run the offence so he plays with Booker which means point Book which means barf.

Dragic is pretty much what we need actually but i don't know why Heat would trade him to Suns for scraps. I was pretty ok with Schroeder but his value is high right now and i have this feeling that after someone trades for him in the end he will return to become an inefficient chucker who ruins the offence and that's a huge risk but of course it might work out too, you never know. We need a pick up like Jazz did with Clarkson (I had wanted to give him a try last year but someone told me here Canaan is better )

I search for players always and try to find our super 6th man guard who can lead the bench and i always end up with the same dude. Bogdan Bogdanovic. My off-season plan was always spending the money on an upgrade for a power forward but if we can have the Bogdanovic for the same money, i don't know guys. I mean this dude is really good and still an underachiever in NBA. Kings is weird organization and i think they are wasting his full potential. He can run the offence from the bench can play with either Booker or Rubio. He can run the pick and roll, hell of a shooter and super competitive (bonus point: maybe some guys would finally stfu about not having a Euro wonderboy who tears his jersey whenever he loses) Problem is we probably cannot keep him. Can be over our price range, we cannot give him a starting role. However i'm even ok with having him for a rental. How we can get him this season is also an another good question. I wouldn't give a first rounder for a guy who might sign with another team in summer. Oubre might get it done but taking the soul stone of the team can kill the chemistry and also if Bogdanovic leaves in summer giving away Oubre for him would be a disaster and i don't think Booker would be happy about this situation. SO I DON'T KNOW BUT TO SUM UP I THINK BOGDANOVIC SOLVES A LOT OF PROBLEM OF THE ROSTER.

As long as we have Rubio/Ayton we need shooters, as much as we can get. Tall shooters, small shooters, tweener shooters. shooting coaches and more shooting generally but especially big shooters who can stretch the floor. I really don't get how Dallas snatched Kleber with that contract, he is such a steal. Can play 4-5 good shooter, good rim protection and even a sneaky athlete as a roller and lob threat but enough with the salivating about the assets Dallas have we had done that a lot past two years. Let's move on. Last week i checked a lot of draft prospects and free agensts and there are a lot of bigs we can get and that's why i want to spend the money on Bogdanovic and find a cheaper solution for the bigs. In the draft there are not many good stretch bigs but still a lot of good prospects like Okongwu,Tyler Bey,Isaiah Stewart, Paul Reed. In free agency Meyers Leonard, Olynyk, Jamychal Green, Bertans could be our targets.If Jeriant Grant wants too much money try to re-sign Saric. His potential is still 14-7-3 with good shooting and solid all around game with good basketball iq and the way he is playing with us we can get him for cheap. In the draft try to get a big who can switch on smaller guards on defence but if there is an another player with higher potential just get him without thinking about fit to team.

Finally i don't exactly recall if i had said that but GET MORE SHOOTERS. Ayton demands so much attention in the paint it creates so much chance for shooters. Other than his surprising defensive improvement, best thing about him is gravity effect in the paint. We should try to build a team like the Magic team with Howard. Howard's bad free throw percentage and his limit on the offensive end at the end of the games really limited that Magic team but with Ayton and Booker i believe we don't have those issues.

Great post, And really solid points man. :wink:

By the way, In the draft, a couple really good scorers/ shooters to check out that could help boost our bench scoring are:

- Aaron Nesmith-
http://www.tankathon.com/players/aaron-nesmith . Make sure to check out his 3pt% as well as his advanced stats, and Win shares. This kid is very solid. He's like a 6'6 TJ Warren scorer, But with better 3 point shooting. Think perhaps a Warren/ Allan Houston mix?

- Devin Vassell-
https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/devin-vassell-scouting-report/ . He's really a very gifted scorer/shooter , He'svery athletic, Also a solid defender too. Maybe he could be our next great Devin??? Then Devin ( Vassell) could back up Devin ( Booker). :lol:

- Jordan Nwora-
a very good scorer and a solid defender as well. He's also got great size at 6'8 and good skill and poise to offset his somewhat pedestrian athleticism. He has the potential to be a go to guy, and a plus defender as well.
http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/jordan-nwora.html?m=1.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/jordan-nwora

Lastly, a player that I really like and is basically a rich man's version of Saric, As he can really shoot the 3, is a crafty scorer and passer with a high basketball IQ, And has size at 6'10, Yet is actually athletic and has speed to his game is:

Killian Tillie of Gonzaga:
http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/killian-tillie.html?m=1 .
http://www.tankathon.com/players/killian-tillie . He's pretty much Saric, But with more speed, more bounce, and would be on a rookie contract. He'd be a 2nd round steal for backup 4 at that price honestly. :nod:

As for free agency, I of course really like Joe Harris, Doug McDermott, JJ Reddick, and Bogdan Bogdanovic. Now my preference would be to scoop him up in 2020 free agency. Or to sign( 1) Doug McDermott, Or Reddick ( 2) in 2021 free agency.

And for defense, my first choice would be to sign Jerami Grant at around 12-15 million tops in( free agency) , or 2nd choice would be Ibaka to around 14-15 million in ( free agency), and Daniel Theiss to around 5 million ( exception) as a 3rd string backup 4/5?

Post #105 » by **ATTL** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:11 am

Haliburton is my favorite player in the draft I think. Him and Okongwu are close for me.

Don't like ball, or Cole. Not sold on Edward's. Wiseman's kinda redundant here with ayton playing like he is.

Post #106 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:22 am

Yeah, I like Haliburton too. Not a typical overall #1 pick type of prospect, but that's the way this draft is, and since it is, this will be the year we barely miss the playoffs and have super luck to leap to the #1 pick in the lottery even without good odds.

Now, then some would say give it up for trade, but then later there would be some super stud rookie that in hindsight was the obvious #1 pick and people would talk about how we blew it....though if we keep it we will not choose that person.

TheLogician · Post #107 » by **TheLogician** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:22 am

So I’m watching USC vs. Oregon and Onyeka Okongwu looks like a C to me. I would stay away. I do really like Payton Pritchard and would love him as our backup PG. His moxie and leadership reminds me of TJ McConnell but he’s also a clutch scorer and way better shooter. Fred VanVleet is a good comp. Sign me up.

TheLogician · Post #108 » by **TheLogician** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:20 am

Read on Twitter

Post #109 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:59 pm

If we jump top 4 who do you want? Who would be your top 5 in order?

Edit: Going through the prospects, ESPN and Tankathon have Halliburton 4th and 5th. If I got #1, I might trade down, get an asset (young player), or future first, and get Halliburton. LaMelo scares me a bit and Edwards #s are bad.

Someone will want Wiseman....man, I was comparing him to Ayton on http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=james-wiseman--deandre-ayton

I imagine some would love that pairing...move Ayton to PF. He'd have to shoot the 3 though. I will say it would be tempting.

The only problem with him is some of the stuff I read in Givony's analysis...

Strengths
- Incredible frame standing over 7 feet in shoes, 250 pounds with a 7-5 wingspan and gigantic standing reach. Exceptional athlete for his size in terms of his ability to get up and down the floor, cover ground and elevate around the rim quickly with explosiveness and power.
- Has a good skill framework. Agile in the post and as a pick-and-roll finisher with impressive body control. Capable of handling and creating for himself. Shows some creativity with his footwork. Has soft touch around the rim and even extending out to 3.
- Impactful as a rim protector when locked in and operating at maximum intensity thanks to his reach, timing and quickness. Also capable of switching on the perimeter with excellent mobility.

Improvement areas
- Feel for the game is a work in progress on both ends. Game moves a little quickly for him at times. Average passer who shows questionable instincts and awareness defensively, especially guarding pick-and-rolls. Can be foul-prone.
- Doesn't always know his best role offensively. Has been intent on proving his skill on the perimeter rather than using his incredible frame to his advantage inside the paint. Elongated release, side spin and questionable percentages from the free throw line raise doubts about his shooting ability.
- Has left scouts wanting more at times in terms of his offensive efficiency, rebounding and defensive impact. Has stretches where he floats, goes through the motions and looks like he's in cruise control. Not always as tough and physical as you might hope boxing out opponents and operating through contact. Very quiet on the floor.

Projected role: Franchise center

--Jonathan Givony

The last bullet point about offensive efficiency, rebounds and defensive impact seem odd, though I think this was written pre draft. He has a much better DRTG than Ayton did in college, and is a monster on the boards and blocks. Ayton was a great rebounder and this guy is way ahead.

If the Warriors get this guy to play with Steph, Klay and Draymond...

Spoiler:

Ayton's pre-draft write up from them...

Spoiler:

I'll have to still look closely at the highest rated PFs (Jaden McDaniels, Precious Achiuwa, Obi Toppin). I know they can all hit 3s which I think is important for our PF, but Jaden shoots almost 4 attempts per game, Obi almost 3 and Precious less than 1. ESPN's Givony/Schmitz have McDaniels as their highest rated PF and 10th overall, with Precious 11th and Toppin 12th, so they are all close for them.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #110 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:35 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
ATTL wrote:Why isn't paul Reed ranked higher? He looks long, averages 16/11 with 3 blocks and 2 steals. 82 defensive rating.

I get the low ranking relative to his college production. He's light for an NBA PF and it's unclear (to me at least) how the speed of the NBA will affect him. But more importantly, he's a junior. In a normal draft I'd say he looks like a solid mid-first prospect. In this draft, slightly higher. It's just that he looks like a role player, and teams generally don't like to use lotto picks to grab role players.

I actually think Tyler Bey projects as the better player. He just plays the wrong position for us. Despite that, I'd strongly consider drafting him as an alternative to Paul Reed.

What do people think of Precious Achiuwa as another alternative to Reed? I've noticed bw has Nnaji as his profile pic, but haven't heard much about him, either. Of course, we shouldn't be narrowly focused on the 4, since we so badly need a backup 2 and probably a backup 5 as well after Baynes moves on this summer... though I'd be wary of drafting a traditional 5, as they typically take a few years to develop, and the starter spot at that position is obviously locked down for the foreseeable future. I'm not all that enamored with this year's SG prospects, though I could very easily be missing someone as I don't watch a lot of NCAA ball.

Paul Reed does need to put on weight and prove himself against tougher competition to quash any potential concerns regarding his potential. Having said that, Outside of Okungwu, I'd be quite content with walking out of the draft with him. Also, I do agree with you emphatically on Tyler Bey. He's simply an ELITE rebounder and very good defender. Likely the closest prospect that we'll find in comparison to Shawn Marion. Now I maybe wouldn't consider him with a top 10 lottery pick, However, I would absolutely engineer a small, low key trade with a team slotted to be in his range of the draft. Mid to late first. Maybe Baynes to one of: Atlanta *( nets pick), Oklahoma City 3 team trade with Phoenix/ Dallas/ OKC ???, Or maybe Oubre to Houston, for some players and a pick? Maybe to Dallas for Brunson and a pick? or maybe to the Clippers perhaps?

But again, We absolutely to find a way to get him to make up for whiffing on Brandon Clarke badly. Also, Bey can provide insurance behind Oubre too. Allowing us to possibly trade Oubre ( * IF needed) for something of value before he's possibly commanding 20+ million in free agency, And eating up a ton of our cap space. Then we can start Bridges, and have Bey at backup small forward. And his stats indicate the potential to be even better than Oubre.

Now with respect to other potential options besides Okungwu or Reed for our power forward needs:

Spoiler:

Really, There's a lot of good young prospects, IF the Suns can actually do their job and scout well.

Post #111 » by **ATTL** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:30 pm

I agree with BW, if we somehow got the first pick I would trade down for haliburton+

In the late lotto I take Reed

Mid lotto I trade up for haliburton if needed.

Someone always rises and falls from tournament so there's a lot of time left.

Post #112 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:36 pm

It will be interesting to see where Reed ends up in mocks, and if he passes up McDaniels, Achiuwa and Toppin, among others. I know he is high on tankathon, and I'm not sure if Givony and Schmitz' opinions on player rankings have changed but they had the 3 I just mentioned as the top 3 PFs and ranked 10th-12th overall, and have Reed as the 6th ranked PF and 33rd overall.

As I mentioned above, I like how the 3 I mentioned all shoot 3s, and McDaniels on a lot of attempts. I think we need a 3 pt shooting one to play with Ayton. Reed shoots over 2 a game, but also has by far the lowest %, under 29%.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #113 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:49 pm

bwgood77 wrote:If we jump top 4 who do you want? Who would be your top 5 in order?

Hmmm....That's hard, As I'd have to see wherein we'd land exactly, And who would fall to us. But I guess, If we somehow lucked our way into the top 4 of the draft, My top 5 with respect to our needs would probably be:

1- Oneyka Okungwu.
He can play the 4 or 5 as far as I'm concerned. But we really need a dominant defensive big. And he's definitely that. Also, I just think that it's easier to find a backup guard in free agency than a quality productive defensive power forward.

2- Tyreese Haliburton.
He's perfect for our backup guard needs.

3- Anthony Edwards.
He could develop into a strong scorer and shot creator off the bench for us. Maybe like a mini Derozan perhaps.

4- James Wiseman. ** ( trade back with a team for additional assets). A team that needs, covets a center. Maybe get a veteran or two and some picks back? ................Maybe something good from one of : Dallas/ Chicago/ Boston/ Atlanta/ Charlotte/ Sacramento/ Golden state or Detroit?

5- Cole Anthony or Nico Mannion to learn from Rubio and lead our bench.

But again, IF we took a guard with our pick, Then I'd look to address power forward by trading some asset or two Or trade back with a team for a veteran, pick swap, or future first, And a 2nd to deepen our bench with a low cost unguaranteed player. But again, it all depends upon exactly where we land, And who is available whenst we pick? :dontknow:

Post #114 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:02 pm

This mock has us taking Achuwa

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2020/01/15/2020-nba-mock-draft-big-board-picks-for-every-team/

Cammo has us taking Toppin.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1859283&start=20#p81073560

Post #115 » by **ATTL** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:01 am

bwgood77 wrote:This mock has us taking Achuwa

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2020/01/15/2020-nba-mock-draft-big-board-picks-for-every-team/

Cammo has us taking Toppin.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1859283&start=20#p81073560

Camo has us passing on okongwu and nico. I don't think you can pass on either for obi

Post #116 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:11 am

ATTL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:This mock has us taking Achuwa

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2020/01/15/2020-nba-mock-draft-big-board-picks-for-every-team/

Cammo has us taking Toppin.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1859283&start=20#p81073560

Camo has us passing on okongwu and nico. I don't think you can pass on either for obi

Toppin is super versatile though. Shoots 34% already from 3 on almost 3 attempts per game and also still has an overall FG% of 62.3% which gives him a TS% of 67.2%. Great defender, gets assists, blocks and steals. A little Shawn Marion-ish...not quite the rebounder but kind of reminds me of a better shooting, worse rebounding Marion. We desperately need a 3&D PF in my opinion and shot blocking may not be as important IF Ayton can protect the rim, and alter shots.

247sports has him ranked 5th in the class

An extreme late-bloomer whose recruitment didn’t really begin until a year of prep school which preceded an academic redshirt year at Dayton, Toppin’s emergence into a potential top 5 pick wasn’t exactly easy to see coming. Toppin is a versatile and skilled post with a high feel who checks almost every box you’re looking for out of the position. He has a clean stroke with legitimate range to the perimeter, has soft touch in the post, is a tremendous passer for the position, plays hard, rebounds in and outside of his area and has the physical tools to be a multi-positional defender and potentially a small ball five in the NBA. Toppin’s long list of ways he impacts the game combined with his size, athleticism and trajectory all help make him one of this draft’s top prospects.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/NBA-Draft-2020-top-players-140299920/#140299920_5

Bogyo · Post #117 » by **Bogyo** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:20 pm

I actually kinda like this draft for our likely purposes. Not too top heavy, I could convince myself that a pick at 13 is "as good" as a pick at 3. I don't really see any clear cut superstars (maybe Wiseman), but I can see about 10-12 solid starters with one or two all stars sprinkled in there at whatever lottery pick. Do your homework (get a bit lucky) and you can do well for your future. Even if you don't do it you can have a very solid bench guy (6th man type) if you development is OK. With our chips in for Book and Ayton and actually having a floor general in Ricky we should be able to pick up somebody useful.

sunsbg · Post #118 » by **sunsbg** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:56 pm

Toppin looks intriguing. There is something Amare-ish in his play. Nr 1 on his jersey too.

If the Suns pick 9th, don't miss on drafting him. A mix of Amare and Marion with our lucky pick, I'll take that. With other pick he probably ends the normal Suns bad pick though. :lol:

Watch on YouTube

Ghost of Kleine · Post #119 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:27 am

sunsbg wrote:Toppin looks intriguing. There is something Amare-ish in his play. Nr 1 on his jersey too. If the Suns pick 9th, don't miss on drafting him. A mix of Amare and Marion with our lucky pick, I'll take that. With other pick he probably ends the normal Suns bad pick though.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah, I do really like his energy, confidence, tenacity and agression that he plays with. It's also kind of nice to see an athletic big man actually dunk as opposed to rising up for a power finger roll or finesse move. I'd be quite content walking out of the draft with either Reed or Toppin, If we miss out on Okungwu honestly.

Still think that we need to trade for a 2nd pick though to address our bench scoring needs. Whether it be a late first or a early to mid 2nd round pick. And again, the two scoring players that are top of my list are:

1- Aaron Nesmith. Alghough 6'6 to Warren's 6'8, I just see so much of TJ Warren in his shot creation, and scoring ability. He's got incredible shooting percentages and stats too. But check him out, and you guys be the judge.

Watch on YouTube

2- Devin Vassell. 6' guard, Who is like a hybrid of Michael Redd/ Devin Booker. But he also plays great defense too. I'd love either of these guys to come off of our bench to backup Booker and scorch the other team with their shooting/ Offense.

Watch on YouTube

Post #120 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:01 am

Obi Toppin with 24, 12, 4 blocks and 3 assists today, including a 3.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401170257

Who do you prefer of the following prospects?