Regular Season Game 46: Boston Celtics (29-14) at Orlando Magic (21-24) - 7pm ET

[SOUL]

Gordon is Magic problem. Been painted as something that he is not for over half of decade. He is best suited for >20% usage, garbage points and Thad Youngs role. Get offensive rebound ,take 3 threes a game and play defense on 8 FGA. That's his real value. Magic sad attemps to promote him into something he has no skills to play year after year made him demaged good.

Not here to debate this really but posting it just because I've seen something on it recently.

Read on Twitter

Take that for what it's worth.. obviously stuff like that isn't heavily reliable because players that aren't stars will get higher usage when they're playing/shooting better and lower usage when they're not.. but not sure that applies to AG since people complain he has the ball too much as well.

[Xatticus]

And as bad as Gordon has been from the 3-point line, it has still a much better shot for our offense than a Vucevic post up.

this is factually incorrect and you know it so i don't know why you even bring it up .
Gordon shooting anything but layups nowdays gives you pathetic returning value. 49,9% TS despite shooting 70,6% inside 3 feet paints perfect picture of a player who should be nothing but putback -garbage points player.
Being the worst starter by efficiency on team that is 29th in efficiency and trying to blame it on team's best player is just sad.

Gordon is Magic problem. Been painted as something that he is not for over half of decade. He is best suited for >20% usage, garbage points and Thad Youngs role. Get offensive rebound ,take 3 threes a game and play defense on 8 FGA. That's his real value. Magic sad attemps to promote him into something he has no skills to play year after year made him demaged good.

Gordon's 5/18 from that corner equates to a .417 eFG%.

Vucevic on post ups has a .351 eFG%. We run that four times per game.

[pepe1991]

Gordon is Magic problem. Been painted as something that he is not for over half of decade. He is best suited for >20% usage, garbage points and Thad Youngs role. Get offensive rebound ,take 3 threes a game and play defense on 8 FGA. That's his real value. Magic sad attemps to promote him into something he has no skills to play year after year made him demaged good.

Not here to debate this really but posting it just because I've seen something on it recently.

Read on Twitter

Take that for what it's worth.. obviously stuff like that isn't heavily reliable because players that aren't stars will get higher usage when they're playing/shooting better and lower usage when they're not.. but not sure that applies to AG since people complain he has the ball too much as well.

Going by just highest FGA in single games:

vs Dallas ( 10-17) L
vs Blazers 4-17 - L
vs Washington 5-16 W
vs Philly 7-16 W
vs Kings 8-16 W
Vs Denver 9- 15 L
vs Spurs 4-16 W
Wizards 7-15 W
vs Suns 13-15 W
vs Rockets 9-15 L
Nuggets 4-14 L

[zaymon]

People really wonder why Vucevic shoots more 3s and struggles this year ? We replaced one of the best 3 point shooters in Dj with one of the worst in Fultz, Gordon regressed to the point he is doing more harm than good and non shooter Birch or below shooter Iwundu replace Isaac. If Vucevic didnt struggle he would be all nba first or second team.

[pepe1991]

And as bad as Gordon has been from the 3-point line, it has still a much better shot for our offense than a Vucevic post up.

this is factually incorrect and you know it so i don't know why you even bring it up .
Gordon shooting anything but layups nowdays gives you pathetic returning value. 49,9% TS despite shooting 70,6% inside 3 feet paints perfect picture of a player who should be nothing but putback -garbage points player.
Being the worst starter by efficiency on team that is 29th in efficiency and trying to blame it on team's best player is just sad.

Gordon is Magic problem. Been painted as something that he is not for over half of decade. He is best suited for >20% usage, garbage points and Thad Youngs role. Get offensive rebound ,take 3 threes a game and play defense on 8 FGA. That's his real value. Magic sad attemps to promote him into something he has no skills to play year after year made him demaged good.

Gordon's 5/18 from that corner equates to a .417 eFG%.

Vucevic on post ups has a .351 eFG%. We run that four times per game.

3-12 for 3 since this picture was updated so actual restults are even worst

His catch and shoots have 41% eFG and give 0% chance for assist from it. Vuc post ups at least create some open looks for others and result in some assists.
I don't know how can somebody watch Orlando this year on regular bases and not come to conclusion that Gordon is terrible. Guy is least effective starter on team. Fultz shoots 25% for 3 and has higher efficiency numbers.
On top of all that he also can't shoot free throws at NBA level ( 67% whole season).

[j-ragg]

People really wonder why Vucevic shoots more 3s and struggles this year ? We replaced one of the best 3 point shooters in Dj with one of the worst in Fultz, Gordon regressed to the point he is doing more harm than good and non shooter Birch or below shooter Iwundu replace Isaac. If Vucevic didnt struggle he would be all nba first or second team.

Is there any part of Vucevic or Fournier's deficiencies that could be their own fault? I await the answer.

[j_n]

People really wonder why Vucevic shoots more 3s and struggles this year ? We replaced one of the best 3 point shooters in Dj with one of the worst in Fultz, Gordon regressed to the point he is doing more harm than good and non shooter Birch or below shooter Iwundu replace Isaac. If Vucevic didnt struggle he would be all nba first or second team.

Is there any part of Vucevic or Fournier's deficiencies that could be their own fault? I await the answer.

Obviously, no player is perfect but Evan and Vuc are the only above average starters on the team and they start next to two bottom 5 players on their positions (Fultz and Birch/Wes) and a below average starter for his position in Gordon.

Let's try to surround Evan and Vuc with average starters for the first time since they got here before putting all the blame on them.

[zaymon]

People really wonder why Vucevic shoots more 3s and struggles this year ? We replaced one of the best 3 point shooters in Dj with one of the worst in Fultz, Gordon regressed to the point he is doing more harm than good and non shooter Birch or below shooter Iwundu replace Isaac. If Vucevic didnt struggle he would be all nba first or second team.

Is there any part of Vucevic or Fournier's deficiencies that could be their own fault? I await the answer.

Of course, there are many, but as i said Vucevic is not all nba player, and this board expects such play from him and for 25 M a season which is unrealistic.
Vucevic lacks the fire of a true number one option, skills wise he is very close but his mental aproach hurts his performance. He is not physical enough.
Fournier lacks athletecism to be elite offensive and defensive player, his vision and passing while good are not good enough to be a number one option.
BUT WE ARE TALKING NUMBER ONE OR TWO OPTION PERFORMANCE
while
Gordon is bad even for a reserve
Fultz would maybe get limited minutes from the bench on a contender.
Iwundu, Birch, MCW are fringe rotation players
Bamba is not nba player yet
Clarke is fighting for his nba live.
Ross is good
THAT IS OUR FCKING ROTATION. BLAME CLIFFORD WE ARE IN A PLAYOFF SPOT.

[j-ragg]

People really wonder why Vucevic shoots more 3s and struggles this year ? We replaced one of the best 3 point shooters in Dj with one of the worst in Fultz, Gordon regressed to the point he is doing more harm than good and non shooter Birch or below shooter Iwundu replace Isaac. If Vucevic didnt struggle he would be all nba first or second team.

Is there any part of Vucevic or Fournier's deficiencies that could be their own fault? I await the answer.

Obviously, no player is perfect but Evan and Vuc are the only above average starters on the team and they start next to two bottom 5 players on their positions (Fultz and Birch/Wes) and a below average starter for his position in Gordon.

Let's try to surround Evan and Vuc with average starters for the first time since they got here before putting all the blame on them.

A) I'm not putting "all the blame on them". This team sucks and Fournier has had a career year. Can we stop the straw man.
B) I responded because I feel like teams give Vuc wide open jumper after wide open jumper. Which I feel should be his own fault if he isn't hitting them (because it sure is everyone else's fault when they miss) he often plays lethargic too. A couple things that are within his own abilities to control. Same with he should get credit for getting his 3P% up the way he has, when almost everyone on the team's has stayed down.
C) To say we haven't had average players around them, when we have had them tenured almost longer than any other play to a team in the entire league, is crazy.

[pepe1991]

In whole league only 5 players take at least 3 threes a game on >30% and over 11FGA a game.

Gordon among them is last in efficiency.

Butler and Westbrook are superior in everything else to the point where their 3 ball isn't that much of an issue as their biggest strenghts are slashing, getting at rim, drawing fouls and passing.

Gordon is also only player from a list who does not draw 5 FTA a game ( nowhere near really , 3 a game).

Dinwiddie is career backup and Randle is empty stat padder.

Evan is having career year and that's one of things that keeps this roster afloat.
He does not have talent to make this team great, obviously , but reasons of team playing worst than last year should be looked elsewhere.

For start injuries, for second decline of DJ, Gordon's fall from cliff, Vuc playing worst than last year.
And also no growth in Bamba's game, Isaac's latheral improvments on offense ( 10 ppg to 12 ppg, and another injury) and Fultz being average at best ,replacing DJ who was also average at best but helped mask Magic shooting issues last year.

If Evan shoots like he did last year, this team would probably sit on 15-31 record.

I really don't mind moving Evan, but it will be just like Harris trade.
Also what i hate is hypocrisy. "Vuc and Evan are old"... "let get JJ Redick, Derozan , McCullum," Bro JJ is 36, Derozan is older than Vučević , McCullum is 2 years older than Evan. Trading for any of them and moving Vuc is pointless. it's just another, different name, in Vučević situation where he will be fall guy for all the shortcommings of supporting cast.

Magic right now start 3 players who shoot below 28% for 3. Even freaking Greg Popovich on team with no shooters can't make chicken soup from chicken poop and their non shooters- Aldrige and Derozan are freaking nba allstars.

What this team REALLY needs is wing player that can hit open shots and playmaker who can come off screen and make open 3s and draw 5 fouls a game to get to 20 ppg.
That's what every team needs to be competitive and have 50 wins season. Magic are far away from both players.

[zaymon]

In whole league only 5 players take at least 3 threes a game on >30% and over 11FGA a game.

Gordon among them is last in efficiency.

Butler and Westbrook are superior in everything else to the point where their 3 ball isn't that much of an issue as their biggest strenghts are slashing, getting at rim, drawing fouls and passing.

Gordon is also only player from a list who does not draw 5 FTA a game ( nowhere near really , 3 a game).

Dinwiddie is career backup and Randle is empty stat padder.

I just dont understand why we didnt trade him last offseason. Wasnt there any gm stupid enough to trade for him ? Now more people see what some of us told since 2-3 years and we are stuck with Isaac, Aminu, Okeke and Gordon. I believe Weltman resigned him becouse he is big, athletic defender and those are valueable but as he is playing right now we will have to be very creative to get some value for him.

[j-ragg]

I wish our great players had trade value and not just the crap players that no one wants.

[Skybox]

In whole league only 5 players take at least 3 threes a game on >30% and over 11FGA a game.

Gordon among them is last in efficiency.

Butler and Westbrook are superior in everything else to the point where their 3 ball isn't that much of an issue as their biggest strenghts are slashing, getting at rim, drawing fouls and passing.

Gordon is also only player from a list who does not draw 5 FTA a game ( nowhere near really , 3 a game).

Dinwiddie is career backup and Randle is empty stat padder.

Evan is having career year and that's one of things that keeps this roster afloat.
He does not have talent to make this team great, obviously , but reasons of team playing worst than last year should be looked elsewhere.

For start injuries, for second decline of DJ, Gordon's fall from cliff, Vuc playing worst than last year.
And also no growth in Bamba's game, Isaac's latheral improvments on offense ( 10 ppg to 12 ppg, and another injury) and Fultz being average at best ,replacing DJ who was also average at best but helped mask Magic shooting issues last year.

If Evan shoots like he did last year, this team would probably sit on 15-31 record.

I really don't mind moving Evan, but it will be just like Harris trade.
Also what i hate is hypocrisy. "Vuc and Evan are old"... "let get JJ Redick, Derozan , McCullum," Bro JJ is 36, Derozan is older than Vučević , McCullum is 2 years older than Evan. Trading for any of them and moving Vuc is pointless. it's just another, different name, in Vučević situation where he will be fall guy for all the shortcommings of supporting cast.

Magic right now start 3 players who shoot below 28% for 3. Even freaking Greg Popovich on team with no shooters can't make chicken soup from chicken poop and their non shooters- Aldrige and Derozan are freaking nba allstars.

What this team REALLY needs is wing player that can hit open shots and playmaker who can come off screen and make open 3s and draw 5 fouls a game to get to 20 ppg.
That's what every team needs to be competitive and have 50 wins season. Magic are far away from both players.

This is perhaps the most realistic shot for trade deadline...a trade that appears to be no big deal but gets us one or two 35%+ role players...looking at IND's bench, they have a bunch-I'd be curious to see what a deadeye, one trick pony could do to open things up for Fultz, AG, Vuc to look like new men around the rim.