Kobe Bryant Discussion, Part Two

[ratul]

This def feels worse the day after

[Lazy Faizy]

Just woke up. I'm still kind of in shock but reality is starting to set in now. I didn't realize how much Kobe meant to me and my love of basketball until this tragedy happened. I rooted against him on many occasions but I never once denied his greatness. It honestly feels like it's someone who I personally knew that has suddenly passed away. Kobe and his generation of players (Iverson, Duncan, T-Mac, Vince, KG, Shaq, etc) are the main reason why I became such a huge basketball fan in the first place. I'm overcome with sadness right now.

It's nice (don't really know if "nice" is the proper word to use here) to see other sports stars paying homage to Kobe as well, even people who didn't have a close relationship with him or never even met him before. Below is a video from the NFL pro bowl (kind of equivalent to the NFL's version of the All-Star game) where there are several players paying tribute to Kobe and at one point the entire arena was chanting his name. I thought it was a great gesture given the circumstances, especially since the players found out about Kobe's death literally right before they entered the field.

Watch on YouTube

[queridiculo]

I understand that they were flying low for visibility and the pilot was not necessarily relying on instrumentation to determine where he was. The radar shows they rose almost 1000 feet in the final few seconds of the flight suggesting the pilot recognised they were about to hit the mountain and tried to pull up as hard as he could. They hit the hillside at over 160 knots (185mph). Due to the fog I don't think anyone but the pilot knew what was happening until the final few seconds of the flight. Given the impact at such a high velocity I believe everyone aboard died instantly, and were not alive while the aircraft and surrounding bush was burning.

Terrible and to think common sense by the pilot (i.e. not to fly) could have saved their lives.

This is a pretty comprehensive article on what the pilot may have encountered what the weather conditions were close to the crash site.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/kobe-bryants-helicopter-likely-succumbed-to-common-danger.html

Sadly it looks like the pilot erred in judging the conditions which ultimately led to pilot error.

[robbie84]

Absolutely devastating.
The sadness that he had to witness his daughter dying with him is something I hope I never have to experience.
The joy and happiness that this man brought to hundreds of millions of humans around the world is something that only very few humans have done.

The joy he brought me as a basketball fan, as the ultimate competitor and his attitude towards life is something I'll never forget.

As a Celtics fan, it's guys like Kobe that make basketball and the Celtics/Lakers rivalry something we are so lucky to have in our lives.
The 2007 to 2010 rivalry was one of the greatest sporting/fan experiences of my life- both sweet and bitter, and he was like the Terminator that we somehow had to overcome each year there.

Thankyou Kobe, rest in peace legend. Your daughter is hoopin' with you in heaven.

[Ganji]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Art/comments/eug0gr/rest_in_peace_kobe_and_gigi_bosslogic_digital_2020/

[Black Watch]

Why Kobe mattered:

The NBA "is filled with players who grew up watching Bryant as he won five championships with the Lakers and scored 81 points in a single game. Fueled by a seemingly endless reservoir of self-confidence, Bryant was a mammoth figure almost from the moment he arrived, at age 17." —N.Y. Times' Marc Stein

"Kobe Bryant was L.A. — our dreams, our sweat and the drive that unites a far-flung city ... A guy who made us believe that with enough work and desire, winning is more than a distant dream." —L.A. Times' Steve Lopez

"Bryant, who had four daughters with his wife, Vanessa, dedicated himself to boosting women’s sports in recent years, coaching and mentoring basketball players. Gianna, better known as Gigi, was a talented ... player." —Philly Inquirer

The latest: The helicopter carrying Kobe and eight others, which crashed into a rugged hillside outside L.A., was flying in foggy conditions considered dangerous enough that local police agencies grounded their choppers (AP)

[MAQ]

Thank you and rest in peace.

Same to the beautiful daughter and other victims in the crash. Heartbreaking.

[Lost Angel]

this is beyond basketball.

a lot of tears have been shed. LA will not be the same.

it just was not supposed to end like this.

[Coach Carter]

Terrible start to the new year. We've had bushfires in Australia, the china virus and now the passing of one of the greatest sportsmen ever. Damn you grim reaper.

[kwb]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Watch on YouTube

Top 3 moment in the Lakers that season for me along with all their losses and Kobe legendary final game

Like most, I grew up watching Kobe. My guy is and always will be Dirk. Felt bad for him when I heard the news. Those two had some good battles.

As a father to a daughter. This hurts. As I got older and matured more, I began to find a soft spot for this man. Then I saw the way he was with his family. Amazing! May all the families involved find some peace and comfort during their time of suffering.

[KGtabake]

Read on Twitter

[nikster]

so surreal. reading his Dear Basketball letter really got me, especially this part

And that’s OK.
I’m ready to let you go.
I want you to know now
So we both can savor every moment we have left together.
The good and the bad.
We have given each other
All that we have.

[moderndarwin]

It saddens me that the world simply continues and that we don’t stop to mourn. Modern life.

[alienswon]

I understand that they were flying low for visibility and the pilot was not necessarily relying on instrumentation to determine where he was. The radar shows they rose almost 1000 feet in the final few seconds of the flight suggesting the pilot recognised they were about to hit the mountain and tried to pull up as hard as he could. They hit the hillside at over 160 knots (185mph). Due to the fog I don't think anyone but the pilot knew what was happening until the final few seconds of the flight. Given the impact at such a high velocity I believe everyone aboard died instantly, and were not alive while the aircraft and surrounding bush was burning.

Terrible and to think common sense by the pilot (i.e. not to fly) could have saved their lives.

This is a pretty comprehensive article on what the pilot may have encountered what the weather conditions were close to the crash site.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/kobe-bryants-helicopter-likely-succumbed-to-common-danger.html

Sadly it looks like the pilot erred in judging the conditions which ultimately led to pilot error.

here it is

At takeoff a few minutes after 9 a.m., the weather was marginal, with a solid overcast at 1,300 feet and visibility of about five miles in a thin haze. The pilot was flying according to “Visual Flight Rules,” or VFR, meaning that he was relying on his ability to see the terrain below him, and hence had to stay below the clouds. As an alternative, he could have contacted air traffic controllers and switched to “Instrument Flight Rules,” or IFR, that would have allowed him to climb up through the clouds. Controllers would have given him a series of waypoints to follow that would keep him well clear of terrain, dangerous weather, and other aircraft. Flying IFR, however, is time-consuming and constrains pilots to following the directions of controllers. “Southern California airspace is extremely busy, and they might tell you to wait an hour,” assistant professor of aviation at the City University of New York Paul Cline told me. “You’re just one of many waiting in line, and it doesn’t matter if you’re Kobe Bryant.”

So the helicopter continued under visual flight rules. According to data transmitted continuously by the plane’s transponder, it climbed to an altitude of 800 feet as it headed to the northwest near its top speed of 178 mph. For the next 12 minutes, it sped over the inland sprawl of Orange County, past former citrus groves that had long ago been repurposed as warehouses and strip malls. It left the beach enclave of Huntington Beach to the left, and Disneyland to the right, as it worked its way north and west, drawing ever closer to the east-west range of hills, the Santa Monica Mountains, which define the northern end of Los Angeles proper and shelter the city’s most storied redoubts: Beverly Hills, the Hollywood Hills, Malibu.

As he skirted downtown L.A. — and the stadium where Bryant had spent the entirety of his 20-year career — the pilot picked up Highway 5, one of the state’s main arteries, and followed it north to Glendale, a sort of gateway between L.A. proper and the San Fernando Valley to the north. To the left, the peaks of the Santa Monica Mountains disappeared into the clouds; to the right rose the Verdugo Hills. Low-level aviation in the greater L.A. area is constrained by the mountains and the passes that cut through them. Fortunately for pilots navigating by sight, the major highways also make use of these passes, so in a pinch a disoriented pilot can find his way through by following the traffic. There’s an old joke that “IFR” stands for “I Follow Roads.”

But before Bryant’s helicopter could enter the San Fernando Valley, it had to wait. Directly ahead lay Burbank Airport, surrounded by an invisible cylinder of airspace 10 nautical miles across that cannot be entered without permission from air traffic control. Here, near Griffith Park, the helicopter slowed and started a series of turns to the left. After 11 minutes, permission to proceed came through, and the helicopter accelerated as it resumed its northward track over the 5.

Five minutes later, the helicopter reached the edge of Burbank’s airspace. As the 5 turned north on its way to the Bay Area, the helicopter kept straight, then followed a long curve to the left that carried it around the northern half of the San Fernando Valley to skirt the busy airspace around Van Nuys Airport.

At 9:42 a.m., the helicopter intercepted the Ventura Freeway near the southwestern corner of the San Fernando Valley. To the left, the rectilinear sprawl gave way to the wooded slopes of the Santa Monica Mountains and Malibu beyond. Straight ahead, the freeway climbed and zigzagged as it negotiated the higher terrain that led to Thousand Oaks. The journey was almost at an end: the Mamba Sports Academy lay just 17 miles to the west.

For the first time, though, the helicopter was no longer flying over the flat expanse of dense urban Los Angeles. Here, at the suburban fringes, the terrain was hilly and climbing. To make matters worse, the canyon that stretched to the south has a tendency to funnel in the maritime fog. That morning, said Calabasas resident Sharon Stepanosky — who lives less than a mile from the crash site and who happens, coincidentally, to be my cousin — a thick fog had lain over the area, with visibility no more than a few hundred feet. “It was completely overcast and visibility was not good,” she said. By 9:45 a.m., rising temperatures had driven away the fog from the majority of the town, but thick low clouds still wrapped around the slopes just a few hundred feet higher.

As the helicopter approached Calabasas, it was less than 500 feet above the ground. Perhaps wanting to put a safety margin between himself and the increasingly hilly terrain, the pilot began a brisk climb, ascending nearly 1,000 feet in 36 seconds. This put it very close to the bottom of the cloud layer reported at that time at nearby Van Nuys Airport.

We may never know for sure if the helicopter had indeed entered the clouds. But if it did, then it had crossed a kind of invisible line. It was now engaged in what air-crash investigators call “continued VFR flight into instrument meteorological conditions.” Basically, a pilot dependent on seeing the ground to stay oriented can no longer see the ground. Amid a sudden whiteout, disorientation can come surprisingly quickly. “When you get in the soup, your senses don’t work,” Cline, the aviation professor, said. “For me, I always feel like I’m falling to the right. Other people might feel like they’re falling to the left, or climbing.”

A trained pilot can stay right-side up by paying attention to the instruments on his panel. But at low altitude over Calabasas, Bryant’s pilot also had another problem. He knew that the ground ahead was rising, and he couldn’t see it. To avoid hitting it, he could keep climbing, and hope that he’d gain altitude faster than the ground underneath him. Or he could slow to a stop and descend vertically until he popped out of the bottom of the cloud.

Instead, it seems likely that the pilot apparently executed a common maneuver: Figuring that the bottom of the cloud must be close at hand, he decided to dive and pull a fast 180 to go back out the way he’d come in.

According to data transmitted by its transponder, at 15 seconds past 9:45 a.m., the helicopter banked to the left, then dove. Eighteen seconds later, it had lost 800 feet and returned to an easterly heading. But what the pilot had failed to reckon with is that the ground rose not only straight ahead, but on the sides as well. The S-76B had impacted a hillside above the Las Virgenes Municipal Water District facility at a speed of 170 mph.

To be clear, this scenario is just one possibility. “I can’t stress enough, we do not know what happened,” said Cline. It’s possible, he acknowledges, that the plane suddenly developed a mechanical problem that forced it down. Still, he can’t help but be haunted by the idea that if Bryant’s pilot had decided to fly IFR, he and his passengers would still be alive.

“A ton of rules come into play, and people don’t always want to fly that way. It takes away their ability to do whatever they want to do,” Cline said. “The trade-off is you get to live.”

[chrismikayla]

Another reason this hurts is Kobe and I are the same age and we grew up together I feel. It also hit home that regardless of why you are mad at a person make it right, no matter who was "right". I was mad at my son for something he did irresponsibly with money we loaned him and hadn't spoken with him for a couple weeks. I called him immediately to clear the air, because you never know when the words you speak to a loved one may be the last ones they hear...

[alienswon]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[cursedsportsfan]

RIP Kobe, his daughter, and all others who were tragically lost yesterday.

I have a 1week newborn and this is hitting me on a different level. Can't imagine what the families are going through.

I struggle with religion at times. But sending prayers to the families. Please give them strength and the space they need to get over this.

[duppyy]

When I woke up this morning I had hoped yesterday was just a bad dream

[Pharmcat]

I understand that they were flying low for visibility and the pilot was not necessarily relying on instrumentation to determine where he was. The radar shows they rose almost 1000 feet in the final few seconds of the flight suggesting the pilot recognised they were about to hit the mountain and tried to pull up as hard as he could. They hit the hillside at over 160 knots (185mph). Due to the fog I don't think anyone but the pilot knew what was happening until the final few seconds of the flight. Given the impact at such a high velocity I believe everyone aboard died instantly, and were not alive while the aircraft and surrounding bush was burning.

Terrible and to think common sense by the pilot (i.e. not to fly) could have saved their lives.

This is a pretty comprehensive article on what the pilot may have encountered what the weather conditions were close to the crash site.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/kobe-bryants-helicopter-likely-succumbed-to-common-danger.html

Sadly it looks like the pilot erred in judging the conditions which ultimately led to pilot error.

here it is

At takeoff a few minutes after 9 a.m., the weather was marginal, with a solid overcast at 1,300 feet and visibility of about five miles in a thin haze. The pilot was flying according to “Visual Flight Rules,” or VFR, meaning that he was relying on his ability to see the terrain below him, and hence had to stay below the clouds. As an alternative, he could have contacted air traffic controllers and switched to “Instrument Flight Rules,” or IFR, that would have allowed him to climb up through the clouds. Controllers would have given him a series of waypoints to follow that would keep him well clear of terrain, dangerous weather, and other aircraft. Flying IFR, however, is time-consuming and constrains pilots to following the directions of controllers. “Southern California airspace is extremely busy, and they might tell you to wait an hour,” assistant professor of aviation at the City University of New York Paul Cline told me. “You’re just one of many waiting in line, and it doesn’t matter if you’re Kobe Bryant.”

So the helicopter continued under visual flight rules. According to data transmitted continuously by the plane’s transponder, it climbed to an altitude of 800 feet as it headed to the northwest near its top speed of 178 mph. For the next 12 minutes, it sped over the inland sprawl of Orange County, past former citrus groves that had long ago been repurposed as warehouses and strip malls. It left the beach enclave of Huntington Beach to the left, and Disneyland to the right, as it worked its way north and west, drawing ever closer to the east-west range of hills, the Santa Monica Mountains, which define the northern end of Los Angeles proper and shelter the city’s most storied redoubts: Beverly Hills, the Hollywood Hills, Malibu.

As he skirted downtown L.A. — and the stadium where Bryant had spent the entirety of his 20-year career — the pilot picked up Highway 5, one of the state’s main arteries, and followed it north to Glendale, a sort of gateway between L.A. proper and the San Fernando Valley to the north. To the left, the peaks of the Santa Monica Mountains disappeared into the clouds; to the right rose the Verdugo Hills. Low-level aviation in the greater L.A. area is constrained by the mountains and the passes that cut through them. Fortunately for pilots navigating by sight, the major highways also make use of these passes, so in a pinch a disoriented pilot can find his way through by following the traffic. There’s an old joke that “IFR” stands for “I Follow Roads.”

But before Bryant’s helicopter could enter the San Fernando Valley, it had to wait. Directly ahead lay Burbank Airport, surrounded by an invisible cylinder of airspace 10 nautical miles across that cannot be entered without permission from air traffic control. Here, near Griffith Park, the helicopter slowed and started a series of turns to the left. After 11 minutes, permission to proceed came through, and the helicopter accelerated as it resumed its northward track over the 5.

Five minutes later, the helicopter reached the edge of Burbank’s airspace. As the 5 turned north on its way to the Bay Area, the helicopter kept straight, then followed a long curve to the left that carried it around the northern half of the San Fernando Valley to skirt the busy airspace around Van Nuys Airport.

At 9:42 a.m., the helicopter intercepted the Ventura Freeway near the southwestern corner of the San Fernando Valley. To the left, the rectilinear sprawl gave way to the wooded slopes of the Santa Monica Mountains and Malibu beyond. Straight ahead, the freeway climbed and zigzagged as it negotiated the higher terrain that led to Thousand Oaks. The journey was almost at an end: the Mamba Sports Academy lay just 17 miles to the west.

For the first time, though, the helicopter was no longer flying over the flat expanse of dense urban Los Angeles. Here, at the suburban fringes, the terrain was hilly and climbing. To make matters worse, the canyon that stretched to the south has a tendency to funnel in the maritime fog. That morning, said Calabasas resident Sharon Stepanosky — who lives less than a mile from the crash site and who happens, coincidentally, to be my cousin — a thick fog had lain over the area, with visibility no more than a few hundred feet. “It was completely overcast and visibility was not good,” she said. By 9:45 a.m., rising temperatures had driven away the fog from the majority of the town, but thick low clouds still wrapped around the slopes just a few hundred feet higher.

As the helicopter approached Calabasas, it was less than 500 feet above the ground. Perhaps wanting to put a safety margin between himself and the increasingly hilly terrain, the pilot began a brisk climb, ascending nearly 1,000 feet in 36 seconds. This put it very close to the bottom of the cloud layer reported at that time at nearby Van Nuys Airport.

We may never know for sure if the helicopter had indeed entered the clouds. But if it did, then it had crossed a kind of invisible line. It was now engaged in what air-crash investigators call “continued VFR flight into instrument meteorological conditions.” Basically, a pilot dependent on seeing the ground to stay oriented can no longer see the ground. Amid a sudden whiteout, disorientation can come surprisingly quickly. “When you get in the soup, your senses don’t work,” Cline, the aviation professor, said. “For me, I always feel like I’m falling to the right. Other people might feel like they’re falling to the left, or climbing.”

A trained pilot can stay right-side up by paying attention to the instruments on his panel. But at low altitude over Calabasas, Bryant’s pilot also had another problem. He knew that the ground ahead was rising, and he couldn’t see it. To avoid hitting it, he could keep climbing, and hope that he’d gain altitude faster than the ground underneath him. Or he could slow to a stop and descend vertically until he popped out of the bottom of the cloud.

Instead, it seems likely that the pilot apparently executed a common maneuver: Figuring that the bottom of the cloud must be close at hand, he decided to dive and pull a fast 180 to go back out the way he’d come in.

According to data transmitted by its transponder, at 15 seconds past 9:45 a.m., the helicopter banked to the left, then dove. Eighteen seconds later, it had lost 800 feet and returned to an easterly heading. But what the pilot had failed to reckon with is that the ground rose not only straight ahead, but on the sides as well. The S-76B had impacted a hillside above the Las Virgenes Municipal Water District facility at a speed of 170 mph.

To be clear, this scenario is just one possibility. “I can’t stress enough, we do not know what happened,” said Cline. It’s possible, he acknowledges, that the plane suddenly developed a mechanical problem that forced it down. Still, he can’t help but be haunted by the idea that if Bryant’s pilot had decided to fly IFR, he and his passengers would still be alive.

“A ton of rules come into play, and people don’t always want to fly that way. It takes away their ability to do whatever they want to do,” Cline said. “The trade-off is you get to live.”

the pilot should never have taken off...if the LAPD helicopter is grounded, then no other pilot should take off their copter

[Pharmcat]

Another reason this hurts is Kobe and I are the same age and we grew up together I feel. It also hit home that regardless of why you are mad at a person make it right, no matter who was "right". I was mad at my son for something he did irresponsibly with money we loaned him and hadn't spoken with him for a couple weeks. I called him immediately to clear the air, because you never know when the words you speak to a loved one may be the last ones they hear...

great post, I hope others do the same