Political Roundtable Part XXVII

[gtn130]

there's some pretty contentious discussion re: Bernie retweeting Joe Rogan's endorsement on another forum I post at, and wanted a penny for y'alls thoughts (bc, frankly the other forum skews young, and super lib).

the argument is that Bernie retweeting it amounts to implicitly legitimizing/endorsing Rogan, and by extension a lot of his problematic stances re: sexism, transphobia, etc.

the counterargument is that it's still a good thing overall to have Rogan reach out to his millions of listeners bc most of them (generalized to be stoners and roid bros) are politically disengaged, underinformed, and a win for the Dem party to pull them into the Dem coalition. plus, it's a molehill, retweeting is WAY short of legitimizing/endorsing, and it's ok to have ppl in your party who hold different views and values, albeit bad and odious values. also with the caveat that sexism and transphobia are underlying values that have deep roots in American society, and to have them identify as Dems will go a long way towards changing those biases.

(i tried to present the arguments as non-biased as i can, but it's still pretty obvious where i fall huh?)

As a Bernie supporter I think the TGW style purity tests are really obnoxious when it comes to young liberals. Republicans are playing an entirely different game with the McConnell power politics and outright cheating. At some point you have to win elections.

[Ruzious]

there's some pretty contentious discussion re: Bernie retweeting Joe Rogan's endorsement on another forum I post at, and wanted a penny for y'alls thoughts (bc, frankly the other forum skews young, and super lib).

the argument is that Bernie retweeting it amounts to implicitly legitimizing/endorsing Rogan, and by extension a lot of his problematic stances re: sexism, transphobia, etc.

the counterargument is that it's still a good thing overall to have Rogan reach out to his millions of listeners bc most of them (generalized to be stoners and roid bros) are politically disengaged, underinformed, and a win for the Dem party to pull them into the Dem coalition. plus, it's a molehill, retweeting is WAY short of legitimizing/endorsing, and it's ok to have ppl in your party who hold different views and values, albeit bad and odious values. also with the caveat that sexism and transphobia are underlying values that have deep roots in American society, and to have them identify as Dems will go a long way towards changing those biases.

(i tried to present the arguments as non-biased as i can, but it's still pretty obvious where i fall huh?)

Joe Rogan in an MMA cage vs Scott Baio. Loser has to use women's public bathrooms for a month. Or is that for the winner?

[Ruzious]

Do Republican Senators understand that Trump is on trial in the Senate... that generally speaking it's not okay to threaten other jurors by saying “a vote against the president and your head will be on a pike.” ??? Lol, this isn't a vote on tax reform or a budget bill. It's a trial. In the hallowed Senate. With the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court presiding. The inmates have taken over the asylum.

[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

there's some pretty contentious discussion re: Bernie retweeting Joe Rogan's endorsement on another forum I post at, and wanted a penny for y'alls thoughts (bc, frankly the other forum skews young, and super lib).

the argument is that Bernie retweeting it amounts to implicitly legitimizing/endorsing Rogan, and by extension a lot of his problematic stances re: sexism, transphobia, etc.

the counterargument is that it's still a good thing overall to have Rogan reach out to his millions of listeners bc most of them (generalized to be stoners and roid bros) are politically disengaged, underinformed, and a win for the Dem party to pull them into the Dem coalition. plus, it's a molehill, retweeting is WAY short of legitimizing/endorsing, and it's ok to have ppl in your party who hold different views and values, albeit bad and odious values. also with the caveat that sexism and transphobia are underlying values that have deep roots in American society, and to have them identify as Dems will go a long way towards changing those biases.

(i tried to present the arguments as non-biased as i can, but it's still pretty obvious where i fall huh?)

Bernie Sanders has shown poor judgement when it comes to endorsements. He endorsed Cenk Uygher who I like, but Bernie had to walk that back. In the big picture Joe Rohan is a Libertarian meathead so I don’t see how his endorsement is going to make a big difference in the primary. Bernie’s camp could have just not posted anything because yeah reposting Joe Rogan is can be seen as an endorsement of him. This issue points to the bigger problem with Bernie and his supporters. They’ve been ready to tear down people, but are too willing to throw women and people of color under the bus when it suits them.

[bsilver]

And, the next president will be Amy Klobuchar. Why?
Current national polls:
Biden - 29%
Sanders - 23%
Warren - 15%
Bloomberg - 7
Buttigig - 7%

There is absolutely no reason to think anyone will have a majority entering the convention.

The progressive votes maxes out at 38% (23+15), but not all Warren supporters are progressives. Many just want to support a woman. I'd put the progressive vote at about 33%. The rest of D's are moderate and/or put winning as top priority so won't switch to Sanders or Warren. Neither Sanders or Warren have a chance at the nomination.
and
Buttigig is a shooting star and will flame out after Iowa. His votes going to other moderates. Also, many just want to win don't see a gay small city mayor as a viable candidate against Trump.

Bloomberg and Steyer are basically buying votes with their massive advertising. Most don't want to be seen as a billionaire buying the D nomination. Their voters will go to another moderate.

I like Yang but he has 0% chance. Maybe he'd be a good VP candidate. His votes go to av moderate.

That leaves Biden and Klobuchar. Biden is hated by the progressives. Very few switch to Biden.
There's a good reason many moderate alternatives are getting support. Many want an alternative to Biden. His negatives are many.

As a compromise Klobuchar gets the nomination. There's too much negative emotions/reason against Biden or a progressive to think they'll win the nomination so there has to be an alternative.

[Kanyewest]

there's some pretty contentious discussion re: Bernie retweeting Joe Rogan's endorsement on another forum I post at, and wanted a penny for y'alls thoughts (bc, frankly the other forum skews young, and super lib).

the argument is that Bernie retweeting it amounts to implicitly legitimizing/endorsing Rogan, and by extension a lot of his problematic stances re: sexism, transphobia, etc.

the counterargument is that it's still a good thing overall to have Rogan reach out to his millions of listeners bc most of them (generalized to be stoners and roid bros) are politically disengaged, underinformed, and a win for the Dem party to pull them into the Dem coalition. plus, it's a molehill, retweeting is WAY short of legitimizing/endorsing, and it's ok to have ppl in your party who hold different views and values, albeit bad and odious values. also with the caveat that sexism and transphobia are underlying values that have deep roots in American society, and to have them identify as Dems will go a long way towards changing those biases.

(i tried to present the arguments as non-biased as i can, but it's still pretty obvious where i fall huh?)

I'm guessing Bernie Sanders may apologize for retweeting the endorsement. One would think he doesn't know about Rogan's transphobic stances (even I'm unfamiliar as the most I've seen Rogan is he suggested on my youtube feed with interviews with Sanders, Warren, and Andrew Yang)

I tend to think this should have not much of an affect on Bernie Sanders negatively, although perhaps there are people who like Bernie Sanders are turned off, but I suspect people who criticizing Bernie Sanders already do not like him. This has been pretty standard for those criticizing the toxicity of the Bernie brothers online. Still, it does appear a lot of Sanders supporters are largely women and non-white in the latest CNN poll- perhaps toxic behavior is just more pronounced online since people already tend to be sarcastic and insulting since they do not have to face consequences not to mention that there are trolls.

All in all, Rogan's endorsement probably helps Sanders given that anyone who listens to Rogan is probably not very politically engaged- as his podcast apparently nets 180 millions (although not unique) downloads a month. If it is significant at all remains to be seen.

At the end of the day though, Sanders and whoever wins the nomination is likely going to have to increase their base by attracting voters who may problematic beliefs (ie the 6-8 million people who voted for Trump that voted for Obama in the prior election).

[Wizardspride]

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[montestewart]

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A vast left-wing conspiracy! Never have so many been so mean to one so good. Other than the hanging dead from a tree part, this is just like a lynching. Jesus had what, twelve days, forty days? They've been crucifying our great dad for years. Not that Jesus didn't have it rough, and say, I hear he's (abortion ban) been doing some great things.

What a wuss. Must be suffering teething pain from chewing on his silver spoon. I'll bet he makes these tweets to get a bump in his allowance.

[Zonkerbl]

what a bunch of pathetic whiners Republicans are

[doclinkin]

there's some pretty contentious discussion re: Bernie retweeting Joe Rogan's endorsement on another forum I post at, and wanted a penny for y'alls thoughts (bc, frankly the other forum skews young, and super lib).

the argument is that Bernie retweeting it amounts to implicitly legitimizing/endorsing Rogan, and by extension a lot of his problematic stances re: sexism, transphobia, etc.

the counterargument is that it's still a good thing overall to have Rogan reach out to his millions of listeners bc most of them (generalized to be stoners and roid bros) are politically disengaged, underinformed, and a win for the Dem party to pull them into the Dem coalition. plus, it's a molehill, retweeting is WAY short of legitimizing/endorsing, and it's ok to have ppl in your party who hold different views and values, albeit bad and odious values. also with the caveat that sexism and transphobia are underlying values that have deep roots in American society, and to have them identify as Dems will go a long way towards changing those biases.

(i tried to present the arguments as non-biased as i can, but it's still pretty obvious where i fall huh?)

I'll own up to hypocrisy on this issue. I'll kill a Republican who doesn't disavow an endorsement from various Nazis and bad actors, but don't really care if a comedian/shock podcaster/ MMA ringside personality promotes Bernie as his guy. I guess that may be the distinction though, he's a Howard Stern type, he says things to draw attention. he's not actively working to suppress trans rights etc. he's just being an ass. If the average Joey Fisticuffs who listens to his show thinks his opinion is a reason to vote progressive in the same sort of 'raised middle finger' kinda vote that Trump was,then alright. Who cares. Bernie is trying to be president for all americans, even doods who crack stupid jokes that hurt peoples feelings. Nobody in america will pass every purity test.

[gtn130]

I mean Republicans are pretty happy to implement the Nazi agenda so it’s reasonable to shriek over that. Bernie is not transphobic and his agenda has zero to do with anything like that. It’s absurd to think Bernie is transphobic because of Joe Rogan or he hates women because of something Warren said he said

[queridiculo]

I mean Republicans are pretty happy to implement the Nazi agenda so it’s reasonable to shriek over that. Bernie is not transphobic and his agenda has zero to do with anything like that. It’s absurd to think Bernie is transphobic because of Joe Rogan or he hates women because of something Warren said he said

I follow Joe Rogan, and I can't reconcile the idea that he's transphobic or racist with what I've heard from him over the years.

He is fairly outspoken against the idea of transgender athletes and I do count myself among those that thinks the idea of inclusiveness is problematic in certain edge cases.

Even if you listen to the podcast about planet of the apes he is sharing some insights from a white perspective that resonated with me as a black man and brings up some points about lack of diversity in Hollywood and the effects it must have on black communities.

This is entirely agenda driven bull.

Decontextualized sound bites from Rogan to discredit Bernie Sanders is straight from the neocon **** throwing playbook.

[Pointgod]

And, the next president will be Amy Klobuchar. Why?
Current national polls:
Biden - 29%
Sanders - 23%
Warren - 15%
Bloomberg - 7
Buttigig - 7%

There is absolutely no reason to think anyone will have a majority entering the convention.

The progressive votes maxes out at 38% (23+15), but not all Warren supporters are progressives. Many just want to support a woman. I'd put the progressive vote at about 33%. The rest of D's are moderate and/or put winning as top priority so won't switch to Sanders or Warren. Neither Sanders or Warren have a chance at the nomination.
and
Buttigig is a shooting star and will flame out after Iowa. His votes going to other moderates. Also, many just want to win don't see a gay small city mayor as a viable candidate against Trump.

Bloomberg and Steyer are basically buying votes with their massive advertising. Most don't want to be seen as a billionaire buying the D nomination. Their voters will go to another moderate.

I like Yang but he has 0% chance. Maybe he'd be a good VP candidate. His votes go to av moderate.

That leaves Biden and Klobuchar. Biden is hated by the progressives. Very few switch to Biden.
There's a good reason many moderate alternatives are getting support. Many want an alternative to Biden. His negatives are many.

As a compromise Klobuchar gets the nomination. There's too much negative emotions/reason against Biden or a progressive to think they'll win the nomination so there has to be an alternative.

National polls are almost meaningless because of the way the primaries are setup. Not everyone votes at the same time. For example if Bernie wins New Hampshire and Iowa he’s certain to have momentum for South Carolina and other states. Same thing goes for other candidates where you could have different candidates win in the first four states.

[Pointgod]

I mean Republicans are pretty happy to implement the Nazi agenda so it’s reasonable to shriek over that. Bernie is not transphobic and his agenda has zero to do with anything like that. It’s absurd to think Bernie is transphobic because of Joe Rogan or he hates women because of something Warren said he said

I follow Joe Rogan, and I can't reconcile the idea that he's transphobic or racist with what I've heard from him over the years.

He is fairly outspoken against the idea of transgender athletes and I do count myself among those that thinks the idea of inclusiveness is problematic in certain edge cases.

Even if you listen to the podcast about planet of the apes he is sharing some insights from a white perspective that resonated with me as a black man and brings up some points about lack of diversity in Hollywood and the effects it must have on black communities.

This is entirely agenda driven bull.

Decontextualized sound bites from Rogan to discredit Bernie Sanders is straight from the neocon **** throwing playbook.

Joe Rogan’s been pointed out as problematic way before the Bernie endorsement. It’s been pointed out that he gives a platform to white supremacists, misogynists, conspiracy theorists, which is independent of the stuff that he’s said. It may not matter to you, but it’s dismissive to say that there aren’t legitimate concerns with Rogan. A lot of people that have taken issue with Rogan are the core of the Democratic Party. It’s not wrong to think that Bernie touting his endorsement is igniring concerns of people in his own party

[TGW]

And, the next president will be Amy Klobuchar. Why?
Current national polls:
Biden - 29%
Sanders - 23%
Warren - 15%
Bloomberg - 7
Buttigig - 7%

There is absolutely no reason to think anyone will have a majority entering the convention.

The progressive votes maxes out at 38% (23+15), but not all Warren supporters are progressives. Many just want to support a woman. I'd put the progressive vote at about 33%. The rest of D's are moderate and/or put winning as top priority so won't switch to Sanders or Warren. Neither Sanders or Warren have a chance at the nomination.
and
Buttigig is a shooting star and will flame out after Iowa. His votes going to other moderates. Also, many just want to win don't see a gay small city mayor as a viable candidate against Trump.

Bloomberg and Steyer are basically buying votes with their massive advertising. Most don't want to be seen as a billionaire buying the D nomination. Their voters will go to another moderate.

I like Yang but he has 0% chance. Maybe he'd be a good VP candidate. His votes go to av moderate.

That leaves Biden and Klobuchar. Biden is hated by the progressives. Very few switch to Biden.
There's a good reason many moderate alternatives are getting support. Many want an alternative to Biden. His negatives are many.

As a compromise Klobuchar gets the nomination. There's too much negative emotions/reason against Biden or a progressive to think they'll win the nomination so there has to be an alternative.

[TGW]

I mean Republicans are pretty happy to implement the Nazi agenda so it’s reasonable to shriek over that. Bernie is not transphobic and his agenda has zero to do with anything like that. It’s absurd to think Bernie is transphobic because of Joe Rogan or he hates women because of something Warren said he said

I follow Joe Rogan, and I can't reconcile the idea that he's transphobic or racist with what I've heard from him over the years.

He is fairly outspoken against the idea of transgender athletes and I do count myself among those that thinks the idea of inclusiveness is problematic in certain edge cases.

Even if you listen to the podcast about planet of the apes he is sharing some insights from a white perspective that resonated with me as a black man and brings up some points about lack of diversity in Hollywood and the effects it must have on black communities.

This is entirely agenda driven bull.

Decontextualized sound bites from Rogan to discredit Bernie Sanders is straight from the neocon **** throwing playbook.

It's a manufactured controversy by centrist media. These are the same people who celebrated Clinton going on Howard Stern, who's a borderline sexist/racist and long time friend of Trump.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Joe Rogan’s been pointed out as problematic way before the Bernie endorsement. It’s been pointed out that he gives a platform to white supremacists, misogynists, conspiracy theorists, which is independent of the stuff that he’s said. It may not matter to you, but it’s dismissive to say that there aren’t legitimate concerns with Rogan. A lot of people that have taken issue with Rogan are the core of the Democratic Party. It’s not wrong to think that Bernie touting his endorsement is igniring concerns of people in his own party

Where I find this most interesting (not really, but at least more than anywhere else) is the hilarious double-standard it exposes. My experience with Bernie supporters involved a lot of them trying to discredit Andrew Yang because he was drawing so much support from meathead Joe Rogan fans after going on one of his podcasts and that they didn't trust his policies given where his support was coming from. Fast-forward to present day and they've collectively completely changed their tune and forgotten about every having a problem with it.

I'm not sure what difference this will really make, to be honest. The idea of trying to move forward while ignoring a large section of voters is a rather difficult one, though. I'm not sure how many people will change their mind because of what Rogan specifically says. He hasn't exactly been a movement starter in that respect, just a megaphone for all sorts of ideas, many of them terrible ideas. Can he start a movement for Bernie in sections of the population that hadn't moved that direction thus far? We will see, I suppose.

[Wizardspride]

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[Ruzious]

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I expect there will be threats made from the Republican mafia inside the Senate to their members if they decide to make it public that they want Bolton to testify.