Regular Season Game 48: Orlando Magic (21-26) at Miami Heat (31-14) - 7:30pm ET

[swarlesbarkley]

Clifford talking like a man who knows something is coming to an end in the postgame presser. Completely trashing the players for having no heart and playing without professionalism.

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Love it. We need some drama to get a fire going under SOMEONE - could be player, coach, or leadership.

[Def Swami]

Clifford is far from perfect. His use of Birch and Vucevic together makes no sense and kills us every night. He's killing driving lanes and making it easy for teams to double Vucevic in the post.

But, the fact that they have to resort to these sort of lineups is more a reflection of the roster construction. Clifford is an okay coach. He's not great, but he's not bad. He's merely average and okay. And with a roster like this, I don't know what else to expect.

I hope they don't use Clifford as a scapegoat. That would wreak of a sad and depressing hopelessness for our fanbase in knowing that our front office actually believes in this roster.

[cedric76]

Orlando bought a soft euro bum for $100,000,000. With one of the oldest tricks in the book which is show out in a contract year he robbed them with no gun or mask.

1 soft euro and many soft North American

[pepe1991]

Fire Clifford his offense sucks

I wrote in depth review of single possession but decided to delite it. In this case picture is enough.

[ChosenSavior]

In SL there are 2 complete no -shooters and one poor one.
Off bench there is literally 1 NBA rotation player playing.

Most of the nights, especially against playoff teams, Magic are outclassed.
This game in particular was funny because even when deep bench went it, Heat still had way better players.
James Johnson and Waiters would be 25 MPG players on Orlando.

You can try to fingerpoint blame to single player, but it's not player's faults that people who constructed roster ignore team needs and just draft, sign and trade for defenders who can't shoot or score.
Also it's not Aminu's or MCW's or even Bamba's fault that they don't excell on offense. Not every player needs to be 30 ppg player, but Magic built roster where nobody can explode on given night but Ross , Gordon,Evan and Vuc and give them 30 points on given night, and there is nobody else who can have , through season - ten +25 points games.

In mean time you have teams like Houston, who's 3rd to 4th offensive option, Eric Gordon, just dropped 50 points.
OKC has Schroder who on regular bases goes for +20.
Heat's Dragić is averaging 16 ppg, 5 apg, 3 rpg. Would easly be second best Magic player.
Blazers Whiteside is averaging 15-14-2,5 (bpg) and is their third to 4th option.

This team is simply outclassed with injuries of Aminu, DJ, Isaac and others being hurt during season.


We all could go in deep lengts of this game ( or any other) talking about Vuc struggles, Evan being only player guraded outside, Fultz shortcommings, Gordon's struggles, Birch not belonging to NBA- starters world but what's the point ? We all know that.
We all know Vuc can't be 1# option, Evan can't be only player capable of shooting off dribble or shoot in general, Gordon can't be truested to deliver 18 ppg .
They all have to play that roles because GM and president of basketball operations don't seem to care about offense in general and have history of creating "comfort -zone " of playoff teams that are not contenders.

You and OrlandO had great posts on the previous page of this thread. 100% agree with you both. I honestly haven't been watching games since that tragic chopper crash that took Kobe, his daughter, the pilot and the family traveling with Kobe as I'm feeling pretty blah about the NBA right now.

I still have been following the threads though and when you sit back and think about it, this roster is just very piss poor. I actually think it is commendable of Steve Clifford that Orlando currently holds a playoff spot (I know how bad the bottom of the Eastern Conference is but still). We had plenty of ball movement in our offense last year and was playing the right way but we got fooled a bit by Vucevic's strong play last year. He has been a big disappointment this year which is showing our warts even more as a team that struggles to score. Fournier is having a good year individually but it isn't really helping the team much in the long run. I actually thought he played more of a team game last season, just struggled to hit shots.

Firing Clifford will not solve anything and will make us look even more inept as a franchise if we quickly react like that IMO. Weltman and Hammond have to either find a way to use assets to fill that void we have at PF and backup PG like OrlandO said to salvage this season and turn it around or we need to blow this thing up and surround the young guys with capable shooters and guys that are going to play with 100% effort every night.

[magicman112]

Clifford can only do so much with this roster. He's done well to get them into playoff contention but that's not too difficult a task with the East being the way it is. Too many guys looking to get theirs and not playing for the team all the time and guys that just up and quit. The second half of last season was an anomaly and even if they do manage to squeak in it's going to be the same result a first round exit. Must have consistent shooters in today's NBA if you want to even come close to contending. It's not the early 2000s anymore can't just get it done with defense like Detroit did.

[OrlandO]

Fire Clifford his offense sucks

I wrote in depth review of single possession but decided to delite it. In this case picture is enough.

The scouting report is out for our injured squad and this kind of stuff happens all game now. If Weltman doesn't find short term replacements for Isaac and DJ I have to assume he wants a lottery pick.

[JKelt613]

Clifford is far from perfect. His use of Birch and Vucevic together makes no sense and kills us every night. He's killing driving lanes and making it easy for teams to double Vucevic in the post.

But, the fact that they have to resort to these sort of lineups is more a reflection of the roster construction. Clifford is an okay coach. He's not great, but he's not bad. He's merely average and okay. And with a roster like this, I don't know what else to expect.

I hope they don't use Clifford as a scapegoat. That would wreak of a sad and depressing hopelessness for our fanbase in knowing that our front office actually believes in this roster.

I'ts hard to judge Clifford without both Isaac and Aminu (even though he has been absolutely horrible this year). Even Okeke is a guy that could man that spot in theory if he was able to play. Agree that this isn't his fault.

[407Junkie]

Orlando bought a soft euro bum for $100,000,000. With one of the oldest tricks in the book which is show out in a contract year he robbed them with no gun or mask.

1 soft euro and many soft North American

They’re a reflection of their coach and “best” player.

[TheGlyde]

In SL there are 2 complete no -shooters and one poor one.
Off bench there is literally 1 NBA rotation player playing.

Most of the nights, especially against playoff teams, Magic are outclassed.
This game in particular was funny because even when deep bench went it, Heat still had way better players.
James Johnson and Waiters would be 25 MPG players on Orlando.

You can try to fingerpoint blame to single player, but it's not player's faults that people who constructed roster ignore team needs and just draft, sign and trade for defenders who can't shoot or score.
Also it's not Aminu's or MCW's or even Bamba's fault that they don't excell on offense. Not every player needs to be 30 ppg player, but Magic built roster where nobody can explode on given night but Ross , Gordon,Evan and Vuc and give them 30 points on given night, and there is nobody else who can have , through season - ten +25 points games.

In mean time you have teams like Houston, who's 3rd to 4th offensive option, Eric Gordon, just dropped 50 points.
OKC has Schroder who on regular bases goes for +20.
Heat's Dragić is averaging 16 ppg, 5 apg, 3 rpg. Would easly be second best Magic player.
Blazers Whiteside is averaging 15-14-2,5 (bpg) and is their third to 4th option.

This team is simply outclassed with injuries of Aminu, DJ, Isaac and others being hurt during season.


We all could go in deep lengts of this game ( or any other) talking about Vuc struggles, Evan being only player guraded outside, Fultz shortcommings, Gordon's struggles, Birch not belonging to NBA- starters world but what's the point ? We all know that.
We all know Vuc can't be 1# option, Evan can't be only player capable of shooting off dribble or shoot in general, Gordon can't be truested to deliver 18 ppg .
They all have to play that roles because GM and president of basketball operations don't seem to care about offense in general and have history of creating "comfort -zone " of playoff teams that are not contenders.

You and OrlandO had great posts on the previous page of this thread. 100% agree with you both. I honestly haven't been watching games since that tragic chopper crash that took Kobe, his daughter, the pilot and the family traveling with Kobe as I'm feeling pretty blah about the NBA right now.

I still have been following the threads though and when you sit back and think about it, this roster is just very piss poor. I actually think it is commendable of Steve Clifford that Orlando currently holds a playoff spot (I know how bad the bottom of the Eastern Conference is but still). We had plenty of ball movement in our offense last year and was playing the right way but we got fooled a bit by Vucevic's strong play last year. He has been a big disappointment this year which is showing our warts even more as a team that struggles to score. Fournier is having a good year individually but it isn't really helping the team much in the long run. I actually thought he played more of a team game last season, just struggled to hit shots.

Firing Clifford will not solve anything and will make us look even more inept as a franchise if we quickly react like that IMO. Weltman and Hammond have to either find a way to use assets to fill that void we have at PF and backup PG like OrlandO said to salvage this season and turn it around or we need to blow this thing up and surround the young guys with capable shooters and guys that are going to play with 100% effort every night.

I actually think most of the board has started to come around to this realisation, and theres less infighting here and just more head shaking toward management and the team in general, as many of the 'roadblocks' people thought were holding back player development have been removed with injuries, and after a little string of surprising play, reality has hit us now.

Everyone screaming that DJ was holding Fultz back, well he's has the run of the floor and the last 2 games MCW has basically outplayed him (I acknowledge the splint on Fultz' left hand).

Most of the board had already given up on Gordon, but anyone who had any kind of hope that he would step up and shoulder more load with Isaac out of the lineup was very mistaken.

Fournier is still dominating the ball but really who is he taking play away from now that deserves it? Ross and his ice cold chucking ? Wes Iwundu? (Who has actually been solid of late but is not starter quality)...

I guess the one thing left for people to hang a hat on is to say Vucevic is stifling Bamba's progression, and, it is true, but, the odds that Bamab's ceiling will be higher than Vucevic are slim. Yes hes a good shot blocker against bench players, but he doesn't have the hands or passing skills of Vuc, and while he has shooting range he is streaky at best.

For this team to improve on last year, they needed everyone to stay healthy (like last year), and have Isaac and Fultz improve. Fultz is a long term project and long term, he should be solid. Isaac assuming he recovers fully will be great. Vuc and Fournier are nice complimentary offensive pieces... Gordon is an athletic defender who for what he contributes is overpaid.

The whole thing is a mess now, Theres been very little player movement for years and a lot of dependence on improvement from within and capitalising on the weakness of the East... Problem is I think the team just thinks the players were exhausted from the busy schedule and the few days off here is just what they needed to right the ship...

I'm Magic till I die, but even I could stand to see some personnel changes at this point.