If LeBron James & KD never became ring chasers, where would they be in all-time list?

[Drygon]

Lebron stole a chip for his hometown that it otherwise had NO business winning. Kyrie and Love are absolute frauds. He's as much a ring maker as he is a ring chaser.

KD? That's hard to say. He has no comparable - he joined a 73 win team, so it's impossible to say if he could have elevated his own team in his prime.

Kyrie an absolute fraud?

The man averaged 27 ppg in the Finals series & saved LeBron's legacy with a spectacular game-winning shot.

Watch on YouTube

Also, GSW lost NBA Finals 2016 due to injuries Bogut/Iggy/Curry dealt.

Which is exactly how Toronto Raptors (your team) won NBA Finals 2019 with exact same circumstances.

LeBron became a ring chaser and people still arguably put him as the GOAT over Jordan. I think his legacy is already very high.

Durant's legacy however has taken a hit even if it's still high. Though it has to do more with his off court shenanigans than his on court.

Eh, LeBron himself has off court shenanigans that's easily worse than anything KD has done.

Watch on YouTube

[Floody100]

I’m a Boston fan who hates LeBron but have him at 3 at the moment behind MJ & Kareem. If he wins one more title he automatically goes to number 2 in my opinion.
I’ve got KD just sneaking into the top 20. If he won at title with OKC I would have him in the 10-15 range.

[Woody Allen]

We've been here before. Brainwashed / star-obsessed fans

1) Make the history up
2) Define the rules of "ring chasing" in ways that favor Lebron. It's completely illogical and arbitrary, but whenever this discussion happens the rules are defined so that anything Lebron has done is ok and acceptable, whereas anything just beyond that is automatically cowardly and ring chasing.

It's disingenuous, but unfortunately that's what media promotes to these people.

[Cavsfansince84]

The Cavs during late 2000s are very underrated due to how people trying to crap on them in order to prop up LeBron.

LeBron had a well-constructed team around him with COTY Mike Brown on the sideline.

They aren't underrated any more than the 07 Mavs or 06 Pistons are. Mike Brown is a guy who owes his career to LeBron. Him winning a coty award means absolute nothing to me and I think the same is true of most Cavs fans who remember his tenure. Those teams were constructed well enough to win a lot of rs games. Not much else. LeBron can take some blame for his play in the 08 and 2010 playoffs but at the end of the day they were asking him to carry too much of a load in the playoffs and most of the other guys were just role players who weren't really showing up in those playoff series which they lost. Brown was a joke. Zero adjustments made in the Orl series while LeBron had probably a top 10 playoff series of all time and they still lose in 6.

[iggymcfrack]

No one in NBA history has ever spent their whole career with a front office as poor as what LeBron had in Cleveland.

That's simply inaccurate. Cleveland had issues, but even when he was on a really good Cleveland team people just pretend it wasn't.

The 66 win Cleveland team is tied for the most wins of any team Lebron every played on! Those 66 wins puts them right up there with the best of the Celtics Larry Bird teams, the Magic Johnson Lakers, the Duncan Spurs, etc..

And... before someone says, yeah well that Cavs team wasn't that great because they didn't win a championship, well neither did the 73 win Warriors team and I had to hear people complain for years about how great they were.

That’s because LeBron had the best individual season in the history of basketball in 2009. He played at a level no one else has ever played at including himself. He took the kind of garbage no one else but KG ever won 55 games with and won 66.

[Dino353]

A Jordan loon created this thread, pretty obvious.

[Lalouie]

not goat material,,,, but yes they would be all timers

[so_bored]

Lebron stans are so pathetic, trying to change the narrative of their cowardly hero. Call it what you want, but doesn't change the fact that Lebron took the easy way out for his rings. He couldn't get over the hurdle know as the Celtics, and had to cry for help to two of his buddies who were not only from the same draft class, but from the same conference. The worst part is he did this during his physical prime. It was an unprecedented move and everyone called him weak, and rightfully so.

Only thing KD did was to follow Lebron's footsteps to easy rings, only he did it much better than Lebron. Yet, Lebron fans are calling for his head like he he committed some kind of murder, calling him soft, cupcake, snake and what not, but forget it was their hero who set the precedence.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

LeBron never became a ring chaser. He desired to control his own destiny. And left a poorly run franchise.

A ring chaser is inevitably a role player on a team of more capable players. LeBron was the league's best player before and after his Miami tenure.

No, the best player in the league can be a ring chaser too. Lebron did it not once, but twice. He left Cleveland, to join two other top players. Then he left Miami to join Love and Kyrie.

[nurseryc]

No one in NBA history has ever spent their whole career with a front office as poor as what LeBron had in Cleveland. Oscar, KG, T-Mac, every one of them got out eventually. Hell Kobe started requesting a trade after 3 years with those kind of teammates. It’s ridiculous to describe LeBron leaving that sinkhole as “ring chasing”. It’s nothing like KD leaving a team that was up 3-1 on the conference finals to join a team that won 73 games.

As for where they’d be ranked, I feel like LeBron would still be the GOAT but I had him #2 before he even went to Miami based largely on his all-time dominant playoffs in 2009, so i judge a little differently than most. KD I have top-30 right now. If he won a ring in OKC, he’d probably be in the 20-25 range. If he didn’t win one there I feel like he’d be the same.

The GOAT?? Not sure if serious?

[nurseryc]

I’m a Boston fan who hates LeBron but have him at 3 at the moment behind MJ & Kareem. If he wins one more title he automatically goes to number 2 in my opinion.
I’ve got KD just sneaking into the top 20. If he won at title with OKC I would have him in the 10-15 range.

Based on what? Why does he automatically go to number 2? Because he linked up with a top 2-3 player in the world joining the Lakers and if he gets a title there that propels him to number 2?

[KrAzY3]

He took the kind of garbage

Only LeBron stans would claim All-Stars=garbage. Must be fun being LeBron's teammates.

Kyrie an absolute fraud?

The man averaged 27 ppg in the Finals series & saved LeBron's legacy with a spectacular game-winning shot.

You know the rules. Everyone who ever played with LeBron is garbage. No one, no team, no matter how great will ever get the credit they deserve because they at some point let his highness down by not gifting him more rings.

[AussieCeltic]

They’re both ring chasers. I can’t believe the revisionist history in relation to Lebron. When he went to Miami, everyone believed them when they said not 1, not 2, not 3...

He joined Wade and Bosh who were both top 10 players at the time.

Think about it, that’s like Giannis joining up with Davis and Lillard right now. Then adding one of the best shooters of all time in Ray Allen and plenty of perfect role players.

Then goes back to Cleveland with a #1 pick in Irving coming into his own plus Love who at the time was a top 15 player.

Then don’t get me started on playing with AD and the Lakers.

You might say management screwed up his early years but that happens to most young superstars because they get drafted to bad teams. It’s just the way it is. Lebron has played with some of the best players in NBA history but all we hear is he had no help. Give me a fricken break

[iggymcfrack]

He took the kind of garbage

Only LeBron stans would claim All-Stars=garbage. Must be fun being LeBron's teammates.

Kyrie an absolute fraud?

The man averaged 27 ppg in the Finals series & saved LeBron's legacy with a spectacular game-winning shot.

You know the rules. Everyone who ever played with LeBron is garbage. No one, no team, no matter how great will ever get the credit they deserve because they at some point let his highness down by not gifting him more rings.

Wade was really good Bron’s first few years in Miami. And he’s got a hell of a good supporting cast in LA now. But he never really had much in Cleveland. The numbers don’t lie. Even the Love/Kyrie Cavs were consistently putrid whenever the King didn’t suit up and they were way better than any of LeBron’s early teams.

[KrAzY3]

The numbers don’t lie.

Except those 66 wins, those were a big lie, eh?

Thing is when the Warriors won a ton all I ever heard was how stacked that team was, not that it was all just Curry and a bunch of overrated garbage. But when the Cavs won a bunch of games, it was all just one guy apparently.

[SweetTouch]

Probably 0 same number rings any player wins without good players in their team

[BigDocta898]

No one in NBA history has ever spent their whole career with a front office as poor as what LeBron had in Cleveland.

That's simply inaccurate. Cleveland had issues, but even when he was on a really good Cleveland team people just pretend it wasn't.

The 66 win Cleveland team is tied for the most wins of any team Lebron every played on! Those 66 wins puts them right up there with the best of the Celtics Larry Bird teams, the Magic Johnson Lakers, the Duncan Spurs, etc..

And... before someone says, yeah well that Cavs team wasn't that great because they didn't win a championship, well neither did the 73 win Warriors team and I had to hear people complain for years about how great they were.

How many game would they of won without Lebron thay team wasn't great they just had a young prime lebron who could play hard 40 min a night.

That lebron could of made any team great

[BigDocta898]

Lebron stole a chip for his hometown that it otherwise had NO business winning. Kyrie and Love are absolute frauds. He's as much a ring maker as he is a ring chaser.

KD? That's hard to say. He has no comparable - he joined a 73 win team, so it's impossible to say if he could have elevated his own team in his prime.

Kyrie an absolute fraud?

The man averaged 27 ppg in the Finals series & saved LeBron's legacy with a spectacular game-winning shot.

Watch on YouTube

Also, GSW lost NBA Finals 2016 due to injuries Bogut/Iggy/Curry dealt.

Which is exactly how Toronto Raptors (your team) won NBA Finals 2019 with exact same circumstances.

LeBron became a ring chaser and people still arguably put him as the GOAT over Jordan. I think his legacy is already very high.

Durant's legacy however has taken a hit even if it's still high. Though it has to do more with his off court shenanigans than his on court.

Eh, LeBron himself has off court shenanigans that's easily worse than anything KD has done.

Watch on YouTube

And the warriors won in 2015 because of injuries too Love and Irving the warriors are the luckiest team ever.

[BigDocta898]

Lebron was not a ring chaser. He certainly left for a better situation, but you aren't a ring chaser if you are the best player in the nba, win the MVP, the finals mvp and lead your team in 4/5 of the major statistical categories and carry that team to a championship. Remember game 6 of the ECF in 2012 when the Heat were down 3-2 and Lebron went off for a 30 point first half carrying the Heat in a must win game on the road to force a game 7 that they won too? Were you watching that legendary performance and saying "look at this guy ring chasing?" Lol, it is ridiculous.

Calling Lebron a ring chaser just means you are a hater. An example of ring chasing would be Karl Malone with the Lakers at the end of his career. Not that I blame him, but Malone was not the go to guy on the Lakers nor was he the leader. He latched onto a team as a piece hoping it would get him a championship. If Malone went to the Lakers and was the leading scorer and the leader of the team it would not be ring chasing just because he changed teams.

It's semantics at this point but KG, LeBron and KD all started this trend of 1st team All-NBA players not attracting other players but leaving established situations in their prime for an easier chance at winning.

Each did it increasingly worse and LBJ even FAILED at accomplishing the goal(heck being down 3-2 to a worse version of the Celtics should be an even worse indictment against LeBron), yet he's the GOAT in some eyes.

How has Cleveland done without Lebron?

[BigDocta898]

LeBron never became a ring chaser. He desired to control his own destiny. And left a poorly run franchise.

A ring chaser is inevitably a role player on a team of more capable players. LeBron was the league's best player before and after his Miami tenure.

No, the best player in the league can be a ring chaser too. Lebron did it not once, but twice. He left Cleveland, to join two other top players. Then he left Miami to join Love and Kyrie.

Yeah ring chasing to join that juggernaut Cavs team that was just dominating when Lebron left. Morons like you would of said he was ring chasing if he went to Charlotte. "Omg hes joining kemba"