Regular Season Game 49: Miami Heat (32-15) at Orlando Magic (21-27) - 7:00pm ET

[j-ragg]

Magic & Heat is like the Clippers & Lakers .. been that way for a while.. team needs to start winning some damn games and keep a star around

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

[Furinkazan]

Another expected loss. This team is trash and you can tell already which games we will win or lose. Gonna end up somewhere between 35-39 wins.

Im already watching games on fast forward cause of that.Previous seasons such things happened for me after we were out of the playoffs run but this season Im losing interest pretty rapidly already.
My morale as a fan is at all time low atm.

[OrlandO]

Fultz has to dribble a lot because the only way for him to score is near the basket where the defense camps... it's much like Dj who has to dribble a lot because he's so small. They both have to be patient until they find a crack in the defense to get a decent shot off. The other problem is they have to work so hard just to make a layup that it negatively impacts their playmaking... lots of missed opportunities. Doesn't help that we don't have very many shooters.

I don't mind gambling a little on Fultz, but he won't last as our starting PG unless he improves his shooting quickly or we acquire a couple really good shooters to offset his own lack of shooting. It's one of the reasons I've been predicting AG will be traded by summer. Fultz and AG won't work... they don't compliment each other at all.

[fishfuego.]

Magic & Heat is like the Clippers & Lakers .. been that way for a while.. team needs to start winning some damn games and keep a star around

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

Well I’ve been following the league since the Pat Riley’s Lakers and IMO the Magic are nowhere considered a joke aka Clippers, when revisiting the Shaq/Penny, the TMac and Howard era. I just think that to be relevant, they have to win a championship somehow to establish some sort of legacy and wider following.

[j-ragg]

Magic & Heat is like the Clippers & Lakers .. been that way for a while.. team needs to start winning some damn games and keep a star around

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

I just think that to be relevant, they have to win a championship somehow to establish some sort of legacy and wider following.

True. Would be nice to get over that hump somewhere in my lifetime.

Semi unrelated but I said it a few times here; Channing Frye said on a pod a few months back when he was coming in to the league 15 ish years ago Orlando was looked at as a spot to play. A cool place to live. But since then they got the rep. that it's pretty much a Disney/tourist attraction and no other reason to really go. Was interesting hearing a player's POV of what this city's reputation is like.

Winning cures everything in the end though, like you alluded to.

[Def Swami]

Magic & Heat is like the Clippers & Lakers .. been that way for a while.. team needs to start winning some damn games and keep a star around

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

When you start to think about it, 2012-2020 is a long 8 year span to be irrelevant when the team down south has made the playoffs 7/10 years, made 4 Finals appearances, 2 championships, and featured star players like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and now Jimmy Butler. They have a culture that their fans can believe in. There's a track record from their front office and coaching that the fans can believe in. The "HEAT Culture" isn't some fake mantra. Their scouting and player development has proven itself. Free agents want to play there. That franchise, as much as many of us may irrationally dislike the Heat, has absolutely earned all the support they've garnered.

Meanwhile, in that 8 year timespan, the Magic made the playoffs only once, traded away Dwight Howard, Victor Oladipo, and Tobias Harris, and are still featuring Evan Fournier and Nikola Vucevic. If you're a kid growing up in Orlando over the last decade, you have no reason to really believe in the Magic as a franchise. Kids in middle and high school, really the formative years of sports fandom, aren't tuning in for Nik Vucevic and Evan Fournier pick n' rolls nightly. There's an entire generation of potential basketball fans in Orlando who will only really know the Magic as an irrelevant sacrificial lamb for opposing teams like the Heat and Lakers and Celtics.

It's different from when a lot of us grew up with the Magic. We always had Shaq & Penny. The Heart and Hustle Year. Then the promise of T-Mac and Grant Hill. And the Dwight Howard and SVG years. That's a really great run of talent and relevance for any franchise, big or small market. But this 8 year stretch has been absolutely brutal, and is honestly how it is for most small market teams around the league.

That playoff run the Magic had was so important to the franchise. They really want to be "relevant." Not really for any basketball reason, but they know it's hard to stay afloat from a business standpoint in a small market when local TV ratings are low, attendance is low, merchandise sales are low, and interest is low. They got the attention of the Orlando market last season with their late playoff push; those late season games mattered and the team played its ass off. They were hoping to build off of lasts season's success. But reality is this team always had a ceiling with Vucevic, Fournier, Augustin, and Ross leading it. Unless Fultz or Isaac or Bamba takes some unexpected leap, this team is what it is.

The thing is, I was at those games in the old Amway Arena/TD Waterhouse, and those "let's go Heat" chants weren't as prevalent. And it's because the product the Magic put on the floor was one the locals could get behind and believe in. I think the number of Heat fans at Magic games is a reflection of how good the Heat have been in the last decade, but more so a reflection of how much the Magic have lost their fans in that same timespan.

[fishfuego.]

Magic & Heat is like the Clippers & Lakers .. been that way for a while.. team needs to start winning some damn games and keep a star around

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

When you start to think about it, 2012-2020 is a long 8 year span to be irrelevant when the team down south has made the playoffs 7/10 years, made 4 Finals appearances, 2 championships, and featured star players like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and now Jimmy Butler. They have a culture that their fans can believe in. There's a track record from their front office and coaching that the fans can believe in. The "HEAT Culture" isn't some fake mantra. Their scouting and player development has proven itself. Free agents want to play there. That franchise, as much as many of us may irrationally dislike the Heat, has absolutely earned all the support they've garnered.

Meanwhile, in that 8 year timespan, the Magic made the playoffs only once, traded away Dwight Howard, Victor Oladipo, and Tobias Harris, and are still featuring Evan Fournier and Nikola Vucevic. If you're a kid growing up in Orlando over the last decade, you have no reason to really believe in the Magic as a franchise. Kids in middle and high school, really the formative years of sports fandom, aren't tuning in for Nik Vucevic and Evan Fournier pick n' rolls nightly. There's an entire generation of potential basketball fans in Orlando who will only really know the Magic as an irrelevant sacrificial lamb for opposing teams like the Heat and Lakers and Celtics.

It's different from when a lot of us grew up with the Magic. We always had Shaq & Penny. The Heart and Hustle Year. Then the promise of T-Mac and Grant Hill. And the Dwight Howard and SVG years. That's a really great run of talent and relevance for any franchise, big or small market. But this 8 year stretch has been absolutely brutal, and is honestly how it is for most small market teams around the league.

That playoff run the Magic had was so important to the franchise. They really want to be "relevant." Not really for any basketball reason, but they know it's hard to stay afloat from a business standpoint in a small market when local TV ratings are low, attendance is low, merchandise sales are low, and interest is low. They got the attention of the Orlando market last season with their late playoff push; those late season games mattered and the team played its ass off. They were hoping to build off of lasts season's success. But reality is this team always had a ceiling with Vucevic, Fournier, Augustin, and Ross leading it. Unless Fultz or Isaac or Bamba takes some unexpected leap, this team is what it is.

The thing is, I was at those games in the old Amway Arena/TD Waterhouse, and those "let's go Heat" chants weren't as prevalent. And it's because the product the Magic put on the floor was one the locals could get behind and believe in. I think the number of Heat fans at Magic games is a reflection of how good the Heat have been in the last decade, but more so a reflection of how much the Magic have lost their fans in that same timespan.

Wow excellent post.

[The Real Dalic]

Magic & Heat is like the Clippers & Lakers .. been that way for a while.. team needs to start winning some damn games and keep a star around

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

When you start to think about it, 2012-2020 is a long 8 year span to be irrelevant when the team down south has made the playoffs 7/10 years, made 4 Finals appearances, 2 championships, and featured star players like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and now Jimmy Butler. They have a culture that their fans can believe in. There's a track record from their front office and coaching that the fans can believe in. The "HEAT Culture" isn't some fake mantra. Their scouting and player development has proven itself. Free agents want to play there. That franchise, as much as many of us may irrationally dislike the Heat, has absolutely earned all the support they've garnered.

Meanwhile, in that 8 year timespan, the Magic made the playoffs only once, traded away Dwight Howard, Victor Oladipo, and Tobias Harris, and are still featuring Evan Fournier and Nikola Vucevic. If you're a kid growing up in Orlando over the last decade, you have no reason to really believe in the Magic as a franchise. Kids in middle and high school, really the formative years of sports fandom, aren't tuning in for Nik Vucevic and Evan Fournier pick n' rolls nightly. There's an entire generation of potential basketball fans in Orlando who will only really know the Magic as an irrelevant sacrificial lamb for opposing teams like the Heat and Lakers and Celtics.

It's different from when a lot of us grew up with the Magic. We always had Shaq & Penny. The Heart and Hustle Year. Then the promise of T-Mac and Grant Hill. And the Dwight Howard and SVG years. That's a really great run of talent and relevance for any franchise, big or small market. But this 8 year stretch has been absolutely brutal, and is honestly how it is for most small market teams around the league.

That playoff run the Magic had was so important to the franchise. They really want to be "relevant." Not really for any basketball reason, but they know it's hard to stay afloat from a business standpoint in a small market when local TV ratings are low, attendance is low, merchandise sales are low, and interest is low. They got the attention of the Orlando market last season with their late playoff push; those late season games mattered and the team played its ass off. They were hoping to build off of lasts season's success. But reality is this team always had a ceiling with Vucevic, Fournier, Augustin, and Ross leading it. Unless Fultz or Isaac or Bamba takes some unexpected leap, this team is what it is.

The thing is, I was at those games in the old Amway Arena/TD Waterhouse, and those "let's go Heat" chants weren't as prevalent. And it's because the product the Magic put on the floor was one the locals could get behind and believe in. I think the number of Heat fans at Magic games is a reflection of how good the Heat have been in the last decade, but more so a reflection of how much the Magic have lost their fans in that same timespan.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with the "Heat culture" crap. They're Miami. A lot of young athletes that like drugs, clubs, half naked latina women on beaches are going to go play in Miami. We have a family friendly enviroment here in Orlando and no young guy with money wants that. I'm tired of people acting like Miami isn't on the same tier as New York and L.A. for basketball players.

I agree with the fact that the Magic FO has been ass since Dwight left, but Miami would just be us but down south if it wasn't for the things I just listed above.

[OrlandO]

Another expected loss. This team is trash and you can tell already which games we will win or lose. Gonna end up somewhere between 35-39 wins.

39 wins with injuries would be impressive. That's probably not happening unless we address the historically bad spacing and lack of shooting at the deadline though.

I just don't think it would be impressive at all. We shouldn't be missing Isaac and DJ this much. One is a defensive beast with limited offense and the other is a backup PG.

Those are not insignificant losses for this team. Isaac is our glue guy on both ends... all nba level defense and he fills the much needed low usage hustle role on offense. He can't shoot consistently, but at least you can still justify passing to him when he's open. DJ is our only PG who can shoot and plays 26mpg... he plays a larger role for us than most realize. It's not just that we're missing them either, it's the players who are taking over their roles... MCW/Iwundu don't space the floor and Birch at PF on a team like ours is just silly. These injuries have killed our spacing, fit and rotations and it's not like it was good to begin with.

We'd have to go 18-15 with this gimpy squad to get to 39 wins. It would be ugly, but the result would be impressive because what we're rolling out right now is what teams do when they tank.

[Optimus_Steel]

I just don't know why no attempt was made to bring in cheap, bench 3pt shooters?

[fishfuego.]

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

When you start to think about it, 2012-2020 is a long 8 year span to be irrelevant when the team down south has made the playoffs 7/10 years, made 4 Finals appearances, 2 championships, and featured star players like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and now Jimmy Butler. They have a culture that their fans can believe in. There's a track record from their front office and coaching that the fans can believe in. The "HEAT Culture" isn't some fake mantra. Their scouting and player development has proven itself. Free agents want to play there. That franchise, as much as many of us may irrationally dislike the Heat, has absolutely earned all the support they've garnered.

Meanwhile, in that 8 year timespan, the Magic made the playoffs only once, traded away Dwight Howard, Victor Oladipo, and Tobias Harris, and are still featuring Evan Fournier and Nikola Vucevic. If you're a kid growing up in Orlando over the last decade, you have no reason to really believe in the Magic as a franchise. Kids in middle and high school, really the formative years of sports fandom, aren't tuning in for Nik Vucevic and Evan Fournier pick n' rolls nightly. There's an entire generation of potential basketball fans in Orlando who will only really know the Magic as an irrelevant sacrificial lamb for opposing teams like the Heat and Lakers and Celtics.

It's different from when a lot of us grew up with the Magic. We always had Shaq & Penny. The Heart and Hustle Year. Then the promise of T-Mac and Grant Hill. And the Dwight Howard and SVG years. That's a really great run of talent and relevance for any franchise, big or small market. But this 8 year stretch has been absolutely brutal, and is honestly how it is for most small market teams around the league.

That playoff run the Magic had was so important to the franchise. They really want to be "relevant." Not really for any basketball reason, but they know it's hard to stay afloat from a business standpoint in a small market when local TV ratings are low, attendance is low, merchandise sales are low, and interest is low. They got the attention of the Orlando market last season with their late playoff push; those late season games mattered and the team played its ass off. They were hoping to build off of lasts season's success. But reality is this team always had a ceiling with Vucevic, Fournier, Augustin, and Ross leading it. Unless Fultz or Isaac or Bamba takes some unexpected leap, this team is what it is.

The thing is, I was at those games in the old Amway Arena/TD Waterhouse, and those "let's go Heat" chants weren't as prevalent. And it's because the product the Magic put on the floor was one the locals could get behind and believe in. I think the number of Heat fans at Magic games is a reflection of how good the Heat have been in the last decade, but more so a reflection of how much the Magic have lost their fans in that same timespan.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with the "Heat culture" crap. They're Miami. A lot of young athletes that like drugs, clubs, half naked latina women on beaches are going to go play in Miami. We have a family friendly enviroment here in Orlando and no young guy with money wants that. I'm tired of people acting like Miami isn't on the same tier as New York and L.A. for basketball players.

I agree with the fact that the Magic FO has been ass since Dwight left, but Miami would just be us but down south if it wasn't for the things I just listed above.

Heat culture is real thing basketball wise. Riley has a short leash on the players regardless of status. You are either with the program or not. That’s real. See Dion and JJ? Or Lebron not able to control Riley?

Now the city of Miami is a whole different topic but here in O-land is not much different when it comes to things I won’t mention.
I’m just going to say I knew someone friend with Dominic Wilson and what goes on in Vegas, goes on in Orlando. Just so you know.

Don’t think Disney has a way to cover up what goes on in Vegas err Orlando.

Family thing is overrated here and trust me I know. It is not much different than down South. Central FL at one point had one of the highest crime rate in the country.

[Def Swami]

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

When you start to think about it, 2012-2020 is a long 8 year span to be irrelevant when the team down south has made the playoffs 7/10 years, made 4 Finals appearances, 2 championships, and featured star players like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and now Jimmy Butler. They have a culture that their fans can believe in. There's a track record from their front office and coaching that the fans can believe in. The "HEAT Culture" isn't some fake mantra. Their scouting and player development has proven itself. Free agents want to play there. That franchise, as much as many of us may irrationally dislike the Heat, has absolutely earned all the support they've garnered.

Meanwhile, in that 8 year timespan, the Magic made the playoffs only once, traded away Dwight Howard, Victor Oladipo, and Tobias Harris, and are still featuring Evan Fournier and Nikola Vucevic. If you're a kid growing up in Orlando over the last decade, you have no reason to really believe in the Magic as a franchise. Kids in middle and high school, really the formative years of sports fandom, aren't tuning in for Nik Vucevic and Evan Fournier pick n' rolls nightly. There's an entire generation of potential basketball fans in Orlando who will only really know the Magic as an irrelevant sacrificial lamb for opposing teams like the Heat and Lakers and Celtics.

It's different from when a lot of us grew up with the Magic. We always had Shaq & Penny. The Heart and Hustle Year. Then the promise of T-Mac and Grant Hill. And the Dwight Howard and SVG years. That's a really great run of talent and relevance for any franchise, big or small market. But this 8 year stretch has been absolutely brutal, and is honestly how it is for most small market teams around the league.

That playoff run the Magic had was so important to the franchise. They really want to be "relevant." Not really for any basketball reason, but they know it's hard to stay afloat from a business standpoint in a small market when local TV ratings are low, attendance is low, merchandise sales are low, and interest is low. They got the attention of the Orlando market last season with their late playoff push; those late season games mattered and the team played its ass off. They were hoping to build off of lasts season's success. But reality is this team always had a ceiling with Vucevic, Fournier, Augustin, and Ross leading it. Unless Fultz or Isaac or Bamba takes some unexpected leap, this team is what it is.

The thing is, I was at those games in the old Amway Arena/TD Waterhouse, and those "let's go Heat" chants weren't as prevalent. And it's because the product the Magic put on the floor was one the locals could get behind and believe in. I think the number of Heat fans at Magic games is a reflection of how good the Heat have been in the last decade, but more so a reflection of how much the Magic have lost their fans in that same timespan.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with the "Heat culture" crap. They're Miami. A lot of young athletes that like drugs, clubs, half naked latina women on beaches are going to go play in Miami. We have a family friendly enviroment here in Orlando and no young guy with money wants that. I'm tired of people acting like Miami isn't on the same tier as New York and L.A. for basketball players.

I agree with the fact that the Magic FO has been ass since Dwight left, but Miami would just be us but down south if it wasn't for the things I just listed above.

I mean we just got out ass kicked last night by a team of 2 mid-lottery picks (Tyler Herro and Bam Adebayo) and 2 guys from the G League (Kendrick Nunn and Duncan Robinson), and Meyers Leonard; none of who really had much choice in way of ending up in Miami. They're competing for a 2 seed in the East with this roster.

When I think of Heat Culture, I think of a franchise-wide expectation of excellence. That includes scouting, drafting, trading, free agency signings, coaching, development, and training. They hold their players to higher standards than most other franchises. Players go there and get in "world class shape" as multiple players have mentioned in the past. They're finding talent and getting the most out of it by development and coaching. This isn't some team that is solely selling "South Beach life" to free agents. It's definitely appealing, but you can't really argue that this iteration of the Heat are here for the lifestyle. That culture thing isn't really unique to just the Heat. I think teams like the Raptors, Spurs, Celtics, Jazz have found it too. They just hold themselves to a high standard from top to bottom, and have a track record to back it up.

I don't really watch the Magic for the expectation of championships. But I do wish the team had a front office and culture that fans could believe in. That all starts from the top. I know that's the goal for Weltman and Hammond; that's why they love Isaac so much. Isaac represents so much of what they want this team to be about. Players that play hard and selfless. That's why they picked Chuma Okeke. I just think their approach has been pretty lackluster in the 2.5 seasons other than that one draft pick. They're getting lapped by their competition in their short tenure. They talk the talk, but fail to walk the walk.

[3ddman23]

I read that around 2010 or 2011 we had the 4th highest winning % since coming into the league. We weren't always a joke, unlike the Clips. But it feels like that now.

This 2012-present streak just needs to end.

I just think that to be relevant, they have to win a championship somehow to establish some sort of legacy and wider following.

True. Would be nice to get over that hump somewhere in my lifetime.

Semi unrelated but I said it a few times here; Channing Frye said on a pod a few months back when he was coming in to the league 15 ish years ago Orlando was looked at as a spot to play. A cool place to live. But since then they got the rep. that it's pretty much a Disney/tourist attraction and no other reason to really go. Was interesting hearing a player's POV of what this city's reputation is like.

Winning cures everything in the end though, like you alluded to.

Before this whole rebuild in 2012(and even a couple years after) I was able to defend this team and organization against anyone who tried to challange me when they said we where a trash franchise because we hadn't won any championship. This organization for having not won a championship where one of the most competitive and put some of the better product on the floor for nearly its first 20 years of existence. Nobody could tell me nothing because we where essentially the best small market team in the league outside of san Antonio.

But now it's so hard to defend this organization because of how far down the rabbit hole we have gotten with being a poor performing team. Making poor decisions, not drafting a star, never truly tanking and missing out on a top prize pick, 4-5 different head coaches in 7-8 years. The list goes on. It's a shame how far off the totem pole we have fallen. We truly are or have already become the Sacramento kings of the east.

[The Real Dalic]

When you start to think about it, 2012-2020 is a long 8 year span to be irrelevant when the team down south has made the playoffs 7/10 years, made 4 Finals appearances, 2 championships, and featured star players like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and now Jimmy Butler. They have a culture that their fans can believe in. There's a track record from their front office and coaching that the fans can believe in. The "HEAT Culture" isn't some fake mantra. Their scouting and player development has proven itself. Free agents want to play there. That franchise, as much as many of us may irrationally dislike the Heat, has absolutely earned all the support they've garnered.

Meanwhile, in that 8 year timespan, the Magic made the playoffs only once, traded away Dwight Howard, Victor Oladipo, and Tobias Harris, and are still featuring Evan Fournier and Nikola Vucevic. If you're a kid growing up in Orlando over the last decade, you have no reason to really believe in the Magic as a franchise. Kids in middle and high school, really the formative years of sports fandom, aren't tuning in for Nik Vucevic and Evan Fournier pick n' rolls nightly. There's an entire generation of potential basketball fans in Orlando who will only really know the Magic as an irrelevant sacrificial lamb for opposing teams like the Heat and Lakers and Celtics.

It's different from when a lot of us grew up with the Magic. We always had Shaq & Penny. The Heart and Hustle Year. Then the promise of T-Mac and Grant Hill. And the Dwight Howard and SVG years. That's a really great run of talent and relevance for any franchise, big or small market. But this 8 year stretch has been absolutely brutal, and is honestly how it is for most small market teams around the league.

That playoff run the Magic had was so important to the franchise. They really want to be "relevant." Not really for any basketball reason, but they know it's hard to stay afloat from a business standpoint in a small market when local TV ratings are low, attendance is low, merchandise sales are low, and interest is low. They got the attention of the Orlando market last season with their late playoff push; those late season games mattered and the team played its ass off. They were hoping to build off of lasts season's success. But reality is this team always had a ceiling with Vucevic, Fournier, Augustin, and Ross leading it. Unless Fultz or Isaac or Bamba takes some unexpected leap, this team is what it is.

The thing is, I was at those games in the old Amway Arena/TD Waterhouse, and those "let's go Heat" chants weren't as prevalent. And it's because the product the Magic put on the floor was one the locals could get behind and believe in. I think the number of Heat fans at Magic games is a reflection of how good the Heat have been in the last decade, but more so a reflection of how much the Magic have lost their fans in that same timespan.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with the "Heat culture" crap. They're Miami. A lot of young athletes that like drugs, clubs, half naked latina women on beaches are going to go play in Miami. We have a family friendly enviroment here in Orlando and no young guy with money wants that. I'm tired of people acting like Miami isn't on the same tier as New York and L.A. for basketball players.

I agree with the fact that the Magic FO has been ass since Dwight left, but Miami would just be us but down south if it wasn't for the things I just listed above.

I mean we just got out ass kicked last night by a team of 2 mid-lottery picks (Tyler Herro and Bam Adebayo) and 2 guys from the G League (Kendrick Nunn and Duncan Robinson), and Meyers Leonard; none of who really had much choice in way of ending up in Miami. They're competing for a 2 seed in the East with this roster.

When I think of Heat Culture, I think of a franchise-wide expectation of excellence. That includes scouting, drafting, trading, free agency signings, coaching, development, and training. They hold their players to higher standards than most other franchises. Players go there and get in "world class shape" as multiple players have mentioned in the past. They're finding talent and getting the most out of it by development and coaching. This isn't some team that is solely selling "South Beach life" to free agents. It's definitely appealing, but you can't really argue that this iteration of the Heat are here for the lifestyle. That culture thing isn't really unique to just the Heat. I think teams like the Raptors, Spurs, Celtics, Jazz have found it too. They just hold themselves to a high standard from top to bottom, and have a track record to back it up.

I don't really watch the Magic for the expectation of championships. But I do wish the team had a front office and culture that fans could believe in. That all starts from the top. I know that's the goal for Weltman and Hammond; that's why they love Isaac so much. Isaac represents so much of what they want this team to be about. Players that play hard and selfless. That's why they picked Chuma Okeke. I just think their approach has been pretty lackluster in the 2.5 seasons other than that one draft pick. They're getting lapped by their competition in their short tenure. They talk the talk, but fail to walk the walk.

The Heat are also the only team of "excellence" that is able to retain their talent and not lose them in free agency. There's a reason for that. We all know that most young people with money on this planet would choose LA, NY, or Miami. These are just facts.

It's easier to demand excellence from your players when you're one of the only teams that players actually want to come to. They don't have to baby players because they know they can replace superstars with other superstars. They all line up to go play there.

In Orlando, we lose a player like Shaq because Miami overpaid for Mourning and Shaq demanded more money even though he already agreed to a price, and TMac because we made the right draft choice in Dwight even though he wanted Okafor. Meanwhile, even good people and great players like Isaac said he wishes he got drafted by NY on his interview right after being picked by us.

[The Real Dalic]

When you start to think about it, 2012-2020 is a long 8 year span to be irrelevant when the team down south has made the playoffs 7/10 years, made 4 Finals appearances, 2 championships, and featured star players like Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and now Jimmy Butler. They have a culture that their fans can believe in. There's a track record from their front office and coaching that the fans can believe in. The "HEAT Culture" isn't some fake mantra. Their scouting and player development has proven itself. Free agents want to play there. That franchise, as much as many of us may irrationally dislike the Heat, has absolutely earned all the support they've garnered.

Meanwhile, in that 8 year timespan, the Magic made the playoffs only once, traded away Dwight Howard, Victor Oladipo, and Tobias Harris, and are still featuring Evan Fournier and Nikola Vucevic. If you're a kid growing up in Orlando over the last decade, you have no reason to really believe in the Magic as a franchise. Kids in middle and high school, really the formative years of sports fandom, aren't tuning in for Nik Vucevic and Evan Fournier pick n' rolls nightly. There's an entire generation of potential basketball fans in Orlando who will only really know the Magic as an irrelevant sacrificial lamb for opposing teams like the Heat and Lakers and Celtics.

It's different from when a lot of us grew up with the Magic. We always had Shaq & Penny. The Heart and Hustle Year. Then the promise of T-Mac and Grant Hill. And the Dwight Howard and SVG years. That's a really great run of talent and relevance for any franchise, big or small market. But this 8 year stretch has been absolutely brutal, and is honestly how it is for most small market teams around the league.

That playoff run the Magic had was so important to the franchise. They really want to be "relevant." Not really for any basketball reason, but they know it's hard to stay afloat from a business standpoint in a small market when local TV ratings are low, attendance is low, merchandise sales are low, and interest is low. They got the attention of the Orlando market last season with their late playoff push; those late season games mattered and the team played its ass off. They were hoping to build off of lasts season's success. But reality is this team always had a ceiling with Vucevic, Fournier, Augustin, and Ross leading it. Unless Fultz or Isaac or Bamba takes some unexpected leap, this team is what it is.

The thing is, I was at those games in the old Amway Arena/TD Waterhouse, and those "let's go Heat" chants weren't as prevalent. And it's because the product the Magic put on the floor was one the locals could get behind and believe in. I think the number of Heat fans at Magic games is a reflection of how good the Heat have been in the last decade, but more so a reflection of how much the Magic have lost their fans in that same timespan.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with the "Heat culture" crap. They're Miami. A lot of young athletes that like drugs, clubs, half naked latina women on beaches are going to go play in Miami. We have a family friendly enviroment here in Orlando and no young guy with money wants that. I'm tired of people acting like Miami isn't on the same tier as New York and L.A. for basketball players.

I agree with the fact that the Magic FO has been ass since Dwight left, but Miami would just be us but down south if it wasn't for the things I just listed above.

Heat culture is real thing basketball wise. Riley has a short leash on the players regardless of status. You are either with the program or not. That’s real. See Dion and JJ? Or Lebron not able to control Riley?

Now the city of Miami is a whole different topic but here in O-land is not much different when it comes to things I won’t mention.
I’m just going to say I knew someone friend with Dominic Wilson and what goes on in Vegas, goes on in Orlando. Just so you know.

Don’t think Disney has a way to cover up what goes on in Vegas err Orlando.

Family thing is overrated here and trust me I know. It is not much different than down South. Central FL at one point had one of the highest crime rate in the country.

Orlando is nowhere near the level of Vegas. Not even close. Besides, not sure why you're talking about crime rate. I mentioned guys that love drugs, beaches with half naked women, and the club lifestyle, Miami has the perception that you can get all 3 down there. Something that most young guys with money want. Having a certain culture is insanely easy when players are lining up to sign with you. No one though Jimmy Butler was signing with you guys for example. He left a much better and much more championship ready team just to live that Miami lifestyle. Before he joined the Heat, the Magic easily had the better talent. The Heat only had Dragic and Adebayo. But Butler never even considered us.

[fishfuego.]

I'm sorry, I don't agree with the "Heat culture" crap. They're Miami. A lot of young athletes that like drugs, clubs, half naked latina women on beaches are going to go play in Miami. We have a family friendly enviroment here in Orlando and no young guy with money wants that. I'm tired of people acting like Miami isn't on the same tier as New York and L.A. for basketball players.

I agree with the fact that the Magic FO has been ass since Dwight left, but Miami would just be us but down south if it wasn't for the things I just listed above.

Heat culture is real thing basketball wise. Riley has a short leash on the players regardless of status. You are either with the program or not. That’s real. See Dion and JJ? Or Lebron not able to control Riley?

Now the city of Miami is a whole different topic but here in O-land is not much different when it comes to things I won’t mention.
I’m just going to say I knew someone friend with Dominic Wilson and what goes on in Vegas, goes on in Orlando. Just so you know.

Don’t think Disney has a way to cover up what goes on in Vegas err Orlando.

Family thing is overrated here and trust me I know. It is not much different than down South. Central FL at one point had one of the highest crime rate in the country.

Orlando is nowhere near the level of Vegas. Not even close. Besides, not sure why you're talking about crime rate. I mentioned guys that love drugs, beaches with half naked women, and the club lifestyle, Miami has the perception that you can get all 3 down there. Something that most young guys with money want. Having a certain culture is insanely easy when players are lining up to sign with you. No one though Jimmy Butler was signing with you guys for example. He left a much better and much more championship ready team just to live that Miami lifestyle. Before he joined the Heat, the Magic easily had the better talent. The Heat only had Dragic and Adebayo. But Butler never even considered us.

The Vegas comparison was just a mere example that Orlando is not so family innocent as you would like to portray. As far as drugs, half naked women (yes even latinas in Orlando) and beaches (Cocoa beach, Melbourne, Daytona, Clearwater, San Pete etc), Orlando has it all, or near all. There’s a reason why it’s the fastest growing city in the US. Just because you don’t hear it (it is not promoted as such thanks to Disney) it doesn’t mean is not there.

Players go visit Miami all the time and players come visit Orlando all the time. It is about 2 1/2 hours in car and about 30 minutes in plane.
Miami Beach ( South Beach ) is just a section of Miami. You have to travel just the same distance from Kendall to Miami Beach than from Orlando to Cocoa beach.

Miami failed to get many top FAs prior to Butler and the only reason Butler went down south was because he did not get the 5th year contract in Philly and because DWade( his best friend) was in his ear. So they arranged a trade for JRich who Philly estimated was a lesser but similar player to Butler. So the city myth is just that.

[The Real Dalic]

Heat culture is real thing basketball wise. Riley has a short leash on the players regardless of status. You are either with the program or not. That’s real. See Dion and JJ? Or Lebron not able to control Riley?

Now the city of Miami is a whole different topic but here in O-land is not much different when it comes to things I won’t mention.
I’m just going to say I knew someone friend with Dominic Wilson and what goes on in Vegas, goes on in Orlando. Just so you know.

Don’t think Disney has a way to cover up what goes on in Vegas err Orlando.

Family thing is overrated here and trust me I know. It is not much different than down South. Central FL at one point had one of the highest crime rate in the country.

Orlando is nowhere near the level of Vegas. Not even close. Besides, not sure why you're talking about crime rate. I mentioned guys that love drugs, beaches with half naked women, and the club lifestyle, Miami has the perception that you can get all 3 down there. Something that most young guys with money want. Having a certain culture is insanely easy when players are lining up to sign with you. No one though Jimmy Butler was signing with you guys for example. He left a much better and much more championship ready team just to live that Miami lifestyle. Before he joined the Heat, the Magic easily had the better talent. The Heat only had Dragic and Adebayo. But Butler never even considered us.

The Vegas comparison was just a mere example that Orlando is not so family innocent as you would like to portray. As far as drugs, half naked women (yes even latinas in Orlando) and beaches (Cocoa beach, Melbourne, Daytona, Clearwater, San Pete etc), Orlando has it all, or near all. There’s a reason why it’s the fastest growing city in the US. Just because you don’t hear it (it is not promoted as such thanks to Disney) it doesn’t mean is not there.

Players go visit Miami all the time and players come visit Orlando all the time. It is about 2 1/2 hours in car and about 30 minutes in plane.
Miami Beach ( South Beach ) is just a section of Miami. You have to travel just the same distance from Kendall to Miami Beach than from Orlando to Cocoa beach.

Miami failed to get many top FAs prior to Butler and the only reason Butler went down south was because he did not get the 5th year contract in Philly and because DWade( his best friend) was in his ear. So they arranged a trade for JRich who Philly estimated was a lesser but similar player to Butler. So the city myth is just that.

You're talking about what's actually here and there. I'm talking about perception. People percieve Miami to be a great place for a young guy with money to spend it on and is considered a "cool" place to live. We're just Disney and old people. That's literally what everyone thinks we are. Let's not pretend otherwise. I still remember when the Heatles formed all of ESPN celebrated saying "I can't wait to spend the Finals in Miami!" Namely, SAS.