Trade Thread, Part 3: The Fun Continues

[ddb]

Capela isn't coming to Boston unless it's as part of a bigger trade with 3 teams. Very doubtful this occurs. Makes no sense for Boston. It would also mean that Boston has zero plans to keep Hayward long-term.

Agree on first part, strong disagree on the second— a cost controlled C making a little more than the full MLE is a prerequisite to keeping Hayward long term, IMO.

maybe. I haven't ran the numbers. we'd have Kemba on a max. Brown's contract kicks in next season. Hayward can either opt in, or opt out and resign at less annually. either way he's expensive. Tatum is getting a max this summer, his contract would kick in not next season but the year after. Then you have Smart & Capela making double digits millions as well. That's a lot of dough.

[100proof]

Capela isn't coming to Boston unless it's as part of a bigger trade with 3 teams. Very doubtful this occurs. Makes no sense for Boston. It would also mean that Boston has zero plans to keep Hayward long-term.

Agree on first part, strong disagree on the second— a cost controlled C making a little more than the full MLE is a prerequisite to keeping Hayward long term, IMO.

maybe. I haven't ran the numbers. we'd have Kemba on a max. Brown's contract kicks in next season. Hayward can either opt in, or opt out and resign at less annually. either way he's expensive. Tatum is getting a max this summer, his contract would kick in not next season but the year after. Then you have Smart & Capela making double digits millions as well. That's a lot of dough.

I have a hard time seeing ownership keeping hayward past this season regardless of he opts out.

Even at 20 mill per season team payroll would be

Kemba- 32 mill
Brown- 27 mill
Tatum - 29 mill or so
Hayward - 20 mill

Thats over the cap for 4 players. Add draft picks, mle/lle players to round out roster and team is deeeeeep into tax.

[sully00]

Those dudes have shown a hell of a lot more than Romeo.

I believe that Romeo will be a good player one day. I just dont see where he’s going to get the minutes to play and develop here. Theres a very real chance his value only declines from this point onward.

Romeo has played 13 games in the NBA and 7 games in the G League. I mean come on.

Yup, and those guys played in every game and showed more. Cant pretend that not playing isnt a bad sign

I don't agree it is a bad sign it is actually much closer to Ainge's M.O. than starting a guy day one or even the Grant Williams scenario. Robert Williams played in 32 games and 283 mins last year. Langford has played 14 games and 118 mins he seems to be on a similar pace. I don't think Langford was Boston's #1 option on the board but I think they clearly liked him more than some other options that would have filled apparent roster needs. Unless you trade the player at the draft or shortly thereafter you better plan on the long game.

That said the dude has no real trade value at the moment unless you have a GM that really wanted the kid in the draft.

I don't mean this at anyone in particular just an observation. There seems to be a reoccurring thought process on this board that young players who do not deliver immediately are never going to deliver and should be cast away. Kendrick Perkins, Avery Bradley, and Marcus Smart come to mind. Even though history shows you need to be patient and the examples of this franchises lack of patience are glaring, Billups and Joe Johnson being the most high profile. At the same time there seems to be a never ending belief in the potential of another team's young player who has failed to live up to their potential over a 3-4 year period.

What makes Langford a unique talent is that he is considered a legit guard and at 6'4" one of the bigger players at the position in the league. From a an organizational depth perspective his size and versatility can create a role for him in the top 8. It does feel like a renewed commitment to Hayward may stunt his growth a bit.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Romeo has played 13 games in the NBA and 7 games in the G League. I mean come on.

Yup, and those guys played in every game and showed more. Cant pretend that not playing isnt a bad sign

I don't agree it is a bad sign it is actually much closer to Ainge's M.O. than starting a guy day one or even the Grant Williams scenario. Robert Williams played in 32 games and 283 mins last year. Langford has played 14 games and 118 mins he seems to be on a similar pace. I don't think Langford was Boston's #1 option on the board but I think they clearly liked him more than some other options that would have filled apparent roster needs. Unless you trade the player at the draft or shortly thereafter you better plan on the long game.

That said the dude has no real trade value at the moment unless you have a GM that really wanted the kid in the draft.

I don't mean this at anyone in particular just an observation. There seems to be a reoccurring thought process on this board that young players who do not deliver immediately are never going to deliver and should be cast away. Kendrick Perkins, Avery Bradley, and Marcus Smart come to mind. Even though history shows you need to be patient and the examples of this franchises lack of patience are glaring, Billups and Joe Johnson being the most high profile. At the same time there seems to be a never ending belief in the potential of another team's young player who has failed to live up to their potential over a 3-4 year period.

What makes Langford a unique talent is that he is considered a legit guard and at 6'4" one of the bigger players at the position in the league. From a an organizational depth perspective his size and versatility can create a role for him in the top 8. It does feel like a renewed commitment to Hayward may stunt his growth a bit.

To me, its about being practical— for every Perkins or AB, theres an offsetting RJ Hunter or James Young. I dont see what Langfords path to minutes is here. With Smart, Brown, Tatum and Hayward above him firmly, I feel that he is more likely to lose value than become a player here.

I actually like Langford and think he’ll be good if he gets to the right environment. I just dont see that as here.

[ddb]

Romeo has played 13 games in the NBA and 7 games in the G League. I mean come on.

Yup, and those guys played in every game and showed more. Cant pretend that not playing isnt a bad sign

I don't agree it is a bad sign it is actually much closer to Ainge's M.O. than starting a guy day one or even the Grant Williams scenario. Robert Williams played in 32 games and 283 mins last year. Langford has played 14 games and 118 mins he seems to be on a similar pace. I don't think Langford was Boston's #1 option on the board but I think they clearly liked him more than some other options that would have filled apparent roster needs. Unless you trade the player at the draft or shortly thereafter you better plan on the long game.

That said the dude has no real trade value at the moment unless you have a GM that really wanted the kid in the draft.

I don't mean this at anyone in particular just an observation. There seems to be a reoccurring thought process on this board that young players who do not deliver immediately are never going to deliver and should be cast away. Kendrick Perkins, Avery Bradley, and Marcus Smart come to mind. Even though history shows you need to be patient and the examples of this franchises lack of patience are glaring, Billups and Joe Johnson being the most high profile. At the same time there seems to be a never ending belief in the potential of another team's young player who has failed to live up to their potential over a 3-4 year period.

What makes Langford a unique talent is that he is considered a legit guard and at 6'4" one of the bigger players at the position in the league. From a an organizational depth perspective his size and versatility can create a role for him in the top 8. It does feel like a renewed commitment to Hayward may stunt his growth a bit.

in the very small sample size that we have of Romeo Langford, I like what I see. Granted it's been primarily garbage time, but the kid shows a natural calm pace to his game that really stands out. He lets the game come to him whereas most young players, and even veterans have a difficult time slowing down. This may come as a strange comp, but he reminds me a little bit of Kyle Anderson aka Slo-Mo.

[zoyathedestroya]

Agree on first part, strong disagree on the second— a cost controlled C making a little more than the full MLE is a prerequisite to keeping Hayward long term, IMO.

maybe. I haven't ran the numbers. we'd have Kemba on a max. Brown's contract kicks in next season. Hayward can either opt in, or opt out and resign at less annually. either way he's expensive. Tatum is getting a max this summer, his contract would kick in not next season but the year after. Then you have Smart & Capela making double digits millions as well. That's a lot of dough.

I have a hard time seeing ownership keeping hayward past this season regardless of he opts out.

Even at 20 mill per season team payroll would be

Kemba- 32 mill
Brown- 27 mill
Tatum - 29 mill or so
Hayward - 20 mill

Thats over the cap for 4 players. Add draft picks, mle/lle players to round out roster and team is deeeeeep into tax.

When Tatum's salary kicks in (2021-2022), projected tax line is at $151M. Even if we signed Hayward to about 25 per year, signed our own 1st round picks in 2020 and 2021, then maxed Tatum, Cs salary would be around $149M+ for 10 players (Kemba, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Smart, GWill, Langford, Edwards, 2020 BOS 1st, 2021 BOS 1st). Not deep into tax.

[sully00]

Feel like you can infer from some of the Scal comments that Ainge still likes Romeo and he has barely played so he's super unlikely to be moved since his value will be low around the league. Think we'd only move him in a blockbuster or if he's showing a James Young work ethic behind the scenes. I kind of doubt that based on how his body looks.

Thought a line from Bulpett a couple weeks ago saying that Vinnie P was pretty good in practice was fairly interesting and implied that he may be a bit better than his garbage time appearances.

Tend to think Drummond is better than he's given credit for around here. I don't like his Embiid history, but I like Theis's even less.

I tend to disbelieve pretty much everything Scal say with respect to how our front office feels. Ainge isnt going to give him anything other than positive reviews. Also, if we keep Smart and our wing trio next season, I cant imagine Langford’s value going up.

I also dont believe any of that regarding Poirier— our team is starved for big men depth with Kanter out and Poirier has barely played in non-garbage time. That pretty much says it all.

I disagree immensely on Drummond, too. He’s just not very good, IMO.

Scal also during the draft when we had 1st pick said danny loves Fultz, Fultz is the guy- he’s a superstar in the making, Boston loves him etc so he either is playing dumb and hiding everything or while having a close relationship and being friendly with management is true, they don’t give him real in depth info into their thought process (and they shouldn’t )

I don't think this is accurate at all. Ainge manipulates the media just like any good front office should. Ainge uses Scal, Gorman and Bulpett and some others to put out the spin he wants out there. It isn't about whether it is true or not that is relevant what is important is that this is the way Ainge is trying to spin the story.

That perceived commitment to Fultz is what caused PHI to trade up. Specifically to do it before the draft not after the pieces fell into place.

The perceived unwillingness to include Al Jefferson in the deal for KG helped Boston to hold on to Rondo and Perkins. Gorman was the man banging that drum.

Gorman was the guy putting it out there that the Nets picks were all in for Anthony Davis. He was also the first to say that Boston wouldn't be doing that type of deal anymore with Tatum and Brown already delivering.

Scal and Mike essentially employees of the team. While Bulpett still has a job at the Herald my guess he would move to Comcast if and when that came to an end. Their job is to help strengthen Ainge's hand not give away details that would be disadvantageous for the team.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

My only rules leading up to the trade deadline:

1) DO NOT TRADE MARCUS SMART
2) SEE RULE #1

That is all.

[ddb]

My only rules leading up to the trade deadline:

1) DO NOT TRADE MARCUS SMART
2) SEE RULE #1

That is all.

Don't worry. They won't. If they haven't traded him yet (in years past) then they aren't going to. Sure seems like Marcus Smart has cemented his place in the foundation of this team.

[Banks2Pierce]

Wings that can play are not hard to find minutes for. Langford had no summer and just hit 20 years old. Similar age/profile guys we've had are Bradley and James Young so it's 100% about his work ethic behind the scenes because his market value will not be close to even what a 1st is worth right now. There are just tons of non-lottery wings out there that don't get minutes their age 20 season. I would agree that roster spots and $ are a concern so you do get off of him if he has major character red flags.

[CelticsLV]

maybe. I haven't ran the numbers. we'd have Kemba on a max. Brown's contract kicks in next season. Hayward can either opt in, or opt out and resign at less annually. either way he's expensive. Tatum is getting a max this summer, his contract would kick in not next season but the year after. Then you have Smart & Capela making double digits millions as well. That's a lot of dough.

I have a hard time seeing ownership keeping hayward past this season regardless of he opts out.

Even at 20 mill per season team payroll would be

Kemba- 32 mill
Brown- 27 mill
Tatum - 29 mill or so
Hayward - 20 mill

Thats over the cap for 4 players. Add draft picks, mle/lle players to round out roster and team is deeeeeep into tax.

When Tatum's salary kicks in (2021-2022), projected tax line is at $151M. Even if we signed Hayward to about 25 per year, signed our own 1st round picks in 2020 and 2021, then maxed Tatum, Cs salary would be around $149M+ for 10 players (Kemba, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Smart, GWill, Langford, Edwards, 2020 BOS 1st, 2021 BOS 1st). Not deep into tax.

You forgot the MEM and MIL picks which will be another 4-5M.

Those are the pre-China debacle numbers. Tax line won't be close to that after next season. The new projections for the next season were released just recently by the NBA and cap will be 1 million lower than this season - $115M. Tax line will be at $139M. Obviously if there will be jump after next season, it will be much lower than predicted, if at all. Even at $25M per year for Hayward we will be **** tax wise. With 14-15 player roster Celtics will be in $160M territory for salaries alone.

[zoyathedestroya]

So I fake-traded a bunch of our guys and picks for Capela. Here's what our 2021-2022 salary would look like if we signed Tatum to his max and re-upped Hayward to a team-friendly deal. Some Guy is tax MLE player.



Replace Theis and Wanamaker with Tacko and Tremont, tax bill would be around $26M-30M for a full roster. Tacko alone would generate that amount for the franchise lol.

EDIT: Don't really have strong opinions about acquiring Capela. Was just bored and wanted to see what the numbers would look like. Cs will also have enough salary to consolidate for Cave's kill shot.

[zoyathedestroya]

Ctrl+F "Celtics"/"Boston" yields zero results.

Read on Twitter

[cloverleaf]

When Danny does make moves at the deadline and they work (which means not that disastrous Perk year), he tends to clean up his roster such that some marginal player or players who had been showcased from the bench go and there is more playing time for deserving guys still here.

It feels like a year for some moves. DRose is perhaps an obvious one, but if, say, Drummond comes in, what center loses minutes via trade or benching in response? I was glad to hear Brad sound positive about Rob's situation this week and I think he's getting checked out by the doctors today. Best case, he's ready to ramp up practice and return to the lineup after the AS break. But if he's healthy, he really needs 15-20 minutes a game. Yet Kanter and Theis have been delivering in their minutes. I can see the appeal in a strong bench player who can deliver a two-fer of instant bench offense and big-man D, but at what cost?

[Celts17Pride]

So I fake-traded a bunch of our guys and picks for Capela. Here's what our 2021-2022 salary would look like if we signed Tatum to his max and re-upped Hayward to a team-friendly deal. Some Guy is tax MLE player.



Replace Theis and Wanamaker with Tacko and Tremont, tax bill would be around $26M-30M for a full roster. Tacko alone would generate that amount for the franchise lol.

EDIT: Don't really have strong opinions about acquiring Capela. Was just bored and wanted to see what the numbers would look like. Cs will also have enough salary to consolidate for Cave's kill shot.

I hear that "some guy" is really, really good. All-star potential.

[zoyathedestroya]

From Lowe's article... "The Pistons should be able to move Markieff Morris for a second-round pick, sources say." Deal. Call it a day.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Lowe’s article and Woj’s most recent podcast dont even mention Boston. Makes me think were up to something.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[SmartWentCrazy]

Will we get to a trade thread part 6 come Thursday?

Sources are telling me yes.

[jeremym480]

I would still rather build on what we have and just add a shooter(or two) instead of Capela and even more so Drummond (since that would mean losing Hayward or maybe Smart). Someone like Bjencia would cost way less and I still believe that the Theis/Kanter duo will be fine at the 5, especially when Rob comes back. I also still like Grant at the small ball 5 in spurts.

If John Collins is available I'd give up whatever it takes prospects/picks wise to get him but I'm sure a lot of other teams would, as well.