PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

[eminence]

Just got back from my 2020 caucus, lovely fun as always

[E-Balla]

Just got back from my 2020 caucus, lovely fun as always

Iowa can't even run a damn caucus well... No way the Dems can win the GE no matter who they put up if this level of incompetence is acceptable. I get they're collecting new data but still...

Also can we just get rid of caucuses? Why'd they let Bernie continue them when the new rules were being discussed?

[eminence]

Just got back from my 2020 caucus, lovely fun as always

Iowa can't even run a damn caucus well... No way the Dems can win the GE no matter who they put up if this level of incompetence is acceptable. I get they're collecting new data but still...

Also can we just get rid of caucuses? Why'd they let Bernie continue them when the new rules were being discussed?

I'm not sure anybody can run a caucus well.

I don't particularly like them for the presidency, but actually quite enjoy them for local elections.

[E-Balla]

Just got back from my 2020 caucus, lovely fun as always

Iowa can't even run a damn caucus well... No way the Dems can win the GE no matter who they put up if this level of incompetence is acceptable. I get they're collecting new data but still...

Also can we just get rid of caucuses? Why'd they let Bernie continue them when the new rules were being discussed?

I'm not sure anybody can run a caucus well.

I don't particularly like them for the presidency, but actually quite enjoy them for local elections.

The biggest issue here was the attempt to collect accurate data at something as unorganized as a caucus.

[eminence]

Iowa can't even run a damn caucus well... No way the Dems can win the GE no matter who they put up if this level of incompetence is acceptable. I get they're collecting new data but still...

Also can we just get rid of caucuses? Why'd they let Bernie continue them when the new rules were being discussed?

I'm not sure anybody can run a caucus well.

I don't particularly like them for the presidency, but actually quite enjoy them for local elections.

The biggest issue here was the attempt to collect accurate data at something as unorganized as a caucus.

Quickly is an issue for sure. Not too worried about accuracy (everyone at a precinct knows the results and turns in paper ballots as well).

[E-Balla]

I'm not sure anybody can run a caucus well.

I don't particularly like them for the presidency, but actually quite enjoy them for local elections.

The biggest issue here was the attempt to collect accurate data at something as unorganized as a caucus.

Quickly is an issue for sure. Not too worried about accuracy (everyone at a precinct knows the results and turns in paper ballots as well).

Apparently accuracy was the issue. Everyone didn't tally things correctly I think they're saying. IDK though I worked over night and I'm running on fumes now.

[Odinn21]

Quick poll;
The greatest individual tennis season of all-time?

Federer's 2006 season
92W-5L (94.85%) record
82W-5L (94.25%) record against top 100
19W-4L (82.61%) record against top 10
27W-1L (96.43%) record in Grand Slams
13 sets lost in Grand Slams
66W-4L (94.26%) record in big tournaments (Grand Slam, Tour Finals, Masters)
28.1 average rank of opponents
5.8 average rank of players those won against Federer. 4 loses against rank 2 Nadal & 1 lose against rank 21 Murray.
Reached 16 finals in 17 tournaments played in. 12 titles. 3 Grand Slams, 5 Masters.
59W-2L (96.72%) on hard court / 12W-0L (100.00%) on grass court / 16W-3L (84.21%) on clary court [All those 3 loses on clay happened against Rafael Nadal]

55.6% of total points won (53.6% against top 10, 55.3% against top 100)
61.5% of total games won (56.8% against top 10, 61.4% against top 100)
84.7% of total sets won (73.2% against top 10, 83.5% against top 100)


Djokovic's 2015 season
82W-6L (93.18%) record
76W-6L (92.68%) record against top 100
31W-5L (86.11%) record against top 10
27W-1L (96.43%) record in Grand Slams
14 sets lost in Grand Slams
70W-4L (94.59%) record in big tournaments (Grand Slam, Tour Finals, Masters)
23.2 average rank of opponents
7.8 average rank of players those won against Djokovic
2 loses against rank 3 Federer, 1 lose against rank 2 Federer, 1 lose against rank 3 Murray, 1 lose against rank 9 Wavrinka, 1 lose against rank 27 Karlovic
Reached 15 finals in 16 tournaments played in. 11 titles. 3 Grand Slams, 7 Masters.
59W-5L (92.19%) on hard court / 7W-0L (100.00%) on grass court / 16W-1L (94.12%) on clary court

55.8% of total points won (53.9% against top 10, 55.6% against top 100)
62.3% of total games won (59.3% against top 10, 61.8% against top 100)
84.1% of total sets won (75.3% against top 10, 83.4% against top 100)

---

Federer's 19-4 record against top 10 players kind of looks weak compared to Djokovic's numbers but he lost 3 games on clay against the greatest clay player ever before injuries. So, losing 3 games against 20 yo Nadal on clay is better than losing 3 games against 34 yo Federer IMHO. If we exclude those 3 games, Federer's points/games/sets success rates become 56.0% points / 62.3% games / 87.5% sets.
But average rank of opponents and volume of games against top 10 are clearly in Djokovic's favour.

It feels too close and I can't pick one.

[ardee]

Quick poll;
The greatest individual tennis season of all-time?

Federer's 2006 season
92W-5L (94.85%) record
82W-5L (94.25%) record against top 100
19W-4L (82.61%) record against top 10
27W-1L (96.43%) record in Grand Slams
13 sets lost in Grand Slams
66W-4L (94.26%) record in big tournaments (Grand Slam, Tour Finals, Masters)
28.1 average rank of opponents
5.8 average rank of players those won against Federer. 4 loses against rank 2 Nadal & 1 lose against rank 21 Murray.
Reached 16 finals in 17 tournaments played in. 12 titles. 3 Grand Slams, 5 Masters.
59W-2L (96.72%) on hard court / 12W-0L (100.00%) on grass court / 16W-3L (84.21%) on clary court [All those 3 loses on clay happened against Rafael Nadal]

55.6% of total points won (53.6% against top 10, 55.3% against top 100)
61.5% of total games won (56.8% against top 10, 61.4% against top 100)
84.7% of total sets won (73.2% against top 10, 83.5% against top 100)


Djokovic's 2015 season
82W-6L (93.18%) record
76W-6L (92.68%) record against top 100
31W-5L (86.11%) record against top 10
27W-1L (96.43%) record in Grand Slams
14 sets lost in Grand Slams
70W-4L (94.59%) record in big tournaments (Grand Slam, Tour Finals, Masters)
23.2 average rank of opponents
7.8 average rank of players those won against Djokovic
2 loses against rank 3 Federer, 1 lose against rank 2 Federer, 1 lose against rank 3 Murray, 1 lose against rank 9 Wavrinka, 1 lose against rank 27 Karlovic
Reached 15 finals in 16 tournaments played in. 11 titles. 3 Grand Slams, 7 Masters.
59W-5L (92.19%) on hard court / 7W-0L (100.00%) on grass court / 16W-1L (94.12%) on clary court

55.8% of total points won (53.9% against top 10, 55.6% against top 100)
62.3% of total games won (59.3% against top 10, 61.8% against top 100)
84.1% of total sets won (75.3% against top 10, 83.4% against top 100)

---

Federer's 19-4 record against top 10 players kind of looks weak compared to Djokovic's numbers but he lost 3 games on clay against the greatest clay player ever before injuries. So, losing 3 games against 20 yo Nadal on clay is better than losing 3 games against 34 yo Federer IMHO. If we exclude those 3 games, Federer's points/games/sets success rates become 56.0% points / 62.3% games / 87.5% sets.
But average rank of opponents and volume of games against top 10 are clearly in Djokovic's favour.

It feels too close and I can't pick one.

I think Djokovic's best season is 2011. He was 70-6 but he was also 10-1 against Federer and Nadal. 2011 Fed was still closer to his peak than 2015 and 2011 Nadal was peak Nadal pretty much.

I am biased so I still pick 2006 Fed but it's pretty damn close.

Sent from my SM-A505F using RealGM mobile app

[Odinn21]

I think Djokovic's best season is 2011. He was 70-6 but he was also 10-1 against Federer and Nadal. 2011 Fed was still closer to his peak than 2015 and 2011 Nadal was peak Nadal pretty much.

I am biased so I still pick 2006 Fed but it's pretty damn close.

I agree that 2011 Djokovic being his best but from statistical POV, it's 2015. In 2011, his results after US Open weren't there to keep up with Federer's 2006 and his 2015.

It's that classical best =/= greatest type of situation. I've been watching tennis since 2003, Agassi's Aus Open performance is the first Grand Slam I watched. And I can safely say 2011 Djokovic is the best I've ever seen. But not the greatest.

[Dr Positivity]

I think Djokovic's best season is 2011. He was 70-6 but he was also 10-1 against Federer and Nadal. 2011 Fed was still closer to his peak than 2015 and 2011 Nadal was peak Nadal pretty much.

I am biased so I still pick 2006 Fed but it's pretty damn close.

I agree that 2011 Djokovic being his best but from statistical POV, it's 2015. In 2011, his results after US Open weren't there to keep up with Federer's 2006 and his 2015.

It's that classical best =/= greatest type of situation. I've been watching tennis since 2003, Agassi's Aus Open performance is the first Grand Slam I watched. And I can safely say 2011 Djokovic is the best I've ever seen. But not the greatest.

Yea but 2011 was harder competition. So while slightly statistically worse you can say it’s better.

[Odinn21]

I think Djokovic's best season is 2011. He was 70-6 but he was also 10-1 against Federer and Nadal. 2011 Fed was still closer to his peak than 2015 and 2011 Nadal was peak Nadal pretty much.

I am biased so I still pick 2006 Fed but it's pretty damn close.

I agree that 2011 Djokovic being his best but from statistical POV, it's 2015. In 2011, his results after US Open weren't there to keep up with Federer's 2006 and his 2015.

It's that classical best =/= greatest type of situation. I've been watching tennis since 2003, Agassi's Aus Open performance is the first Grand Slam I watched. And I can safely say 2011 Djokovic is the best I've ever seen. But not the greatest.

Yea but 2011 was harder competition. So while slightly statistically worse you can say it’s better.

Statistical gap is bigger than slightly though.

Statistical comparison between Djokovic's 2011 and 2015 seasons;

Year / W-L record / W-L record against top 100 / W-L record against top 10
2011 / 70-6 .921 / 65-6 .915 / 21-4 .840
2015 / 82-6 .932 / 76-6 .927 / 31-5 .861

Grand Slam performances
2011 / 25-1 .962 / 70-13 sets .843 / W-SF-W-W
2015 / 27-1 .964 / 82-14 sets .854 / W-F-W-W

Big tournament performances (Grand Slams+Tour Finals+Masters)
2011 / 59-4 .937 / 21.5 average rank of opponents
2015 / 70-4 .946 / 23.2 average rank of opponents

2011; 15 tournaments, 11 finals, 10 titles (3 Grand Slams, 5 Masters 1000, 1 500 series, 1 250 series)
2015; 16 tournaments, 15 finals, 11 titles (3 Grand Slams, 1 Tour Finals, 6 Masters 1000)

2011; 11.67 is the average rank of players Djokovic lost to.
2015; 7.83 is the average rank of players Djokovic lost to.

2011; 46-5 .902 on hard court / 44-5 .898 on hc against top 100 / 15-3 .833 on hc against top 10
2015; 59-5 .922 on hard court / 54-5 .915 on hc against top 100 / 21-4 .840 on hc against top 10
2011; 7-0 1.000 on grass court / 6-0 1.000 on gc against top 100 / 1-0 1.000 on gc against top 10
2015; 7-0 1.000 on grass court / 7-0 1.000 on gc against top 100 / 2-0 1.000 on gc against top 10
2011; 17-1 .944 on clay court / 15-1 .938 on cc against top 100 / 5-1 .833 on cc against top 10
2015; 16-1 .941 on clay court / 15-1 .938 on cc against top 100 / 8-1 .889 on cc against top 10

2011; won 55.99% of all points / 55.76% against top 100 / 52.99% against top 10
2015; won 55.79% of all points / 55.58% against top 100 / 53.94% against top 10
2011; won 62.94% of all games / 62.43% against top 100 / 56.82% against top 10
2015; won 62.33% of all games / 61.76% against top 100 / 59.32% against top 10
2011; won 81.96% of all sets / 81.42% against top 100 / 69.57% against top 10
2015; won 84.05% of all sets / 83.41% against top 100 / 75.26% against top 10


His 2015 performance is better nearly in every single category. In 2015 he won 11 more games in meaningful competitions while losing just as many times. In 2015 he won the Tour Finals and 1 more Masters 1000 which are more meaningful than a 500 and a 250 series.


You'd have to set a threshold by saying 'from start of the season to end of the US Open' for 2011 because the rest of the season was ruined for Djokovic by back pains.

[Dr Positivity]

I agree that 2011 Djokovic being his best but from statistical POV, it's 2015. In 2011, his results after US Open weren't there to keep up with Federer's 2006 and his 2015.

It's that classical best =/= greatest type of situation. I've been watching tennis since 2003, Agassi's Aus Open performance is the first Grand Slam I watched. And I can safely say 2011 Djokovic is the best I've ever seen. But not the greatest.

Yea but 2011 was harder competition. So while slightly statistically worse you can say it’s better.

Statistical gap is bigger than slightly though.

Statistical comparison between Djokovic's 2011 and 2015 seasons;

Year / W-L record / W-L record against top 100 / W-L record against top 10
2011 / 70-6 .921 / 65-6 .915 / 21-4 .840
2015 / 82-6 .932 / 76-6 .927 / 31-5 .861

Grand Slam performances
2011 / 25-1 .962 / 70-13 sets .843 / W-SF-W-W
2015 / 27-1 .964 / 82-14 sets .854 / W-F-W-W

Big tournament performances (Grand Slams+Tour Finals+Masters)
2011 / 59-4 .937 / 21.5 average rank of opponents
2015 / 70-4 .946 / 23.2 average rank of opponents

2011; 15 tournaments, 11 finals, 10 titles (3 Grand Slams, 5 Masters 1000, 1 500 series, 1 250 series)
2015; 16 tournaments, 15 finals, 11 titles (3 Grand Slams, 1 Tour Finals, 6 Masters 1000)

2011; 11.67 is the average rank of players Djokovic lost to.
2015; 7.83 is the average rank of players Djokovic lost to.

2011; 46-5 .902 on hard court / 44-5 .898 on hc against top 100 / 15-3 .833 on hc against top 10
2015; 59-5 .922 on hard court / 54-5 .915 on hc against top 100 / 21-4 .840 on hc against top 10
2011; 7-0 1.000 on grass court / 6-0 1.000 on gc against top 100 / 1-0 1.000 on gc against top 10
2015; 7-0 1.000 on grass court / 7-0 1.000 on gc against top 100 / 2-0 1.000 on gc against top 10
2011; 17-1 .944 on clay court / 15-1 .938 on cc against top 100 / 5-1 .833 on cc against top 10
2015; 16-1 .941 on clay court / 15-1 .938 on cc against top 100 / 8-1 .889 on cc against top 10

2011; won 55.99% of all points / 55.76% against top 100 / 52.99% against top 10
2015; won 55.79% of all points / 55.58% against top 100 / 53.94% against top 10
2011; won 62.94% of all games / 62.43% against top 100 / 56.82% against top 10
2015; won 62.33% of all games / 61.76% against top 100 / 59.32% against top 10
2011; won 81.96% of all sets / 81.42% against top 100 / 69.57% against top 10
2015; won 84.05% of all sets / 83.41% against top 100 / 75.26% against top 10


His 2015 performance is better nearly in every single category. In 2015 he won 11 more games in meaningful competitions while losing just as many times. In 2015 he won the Tour Finals and 1 more Masters 1000 which are more meaningful than a 500 and a 250 series.


You'd have to set a threshold by saying 'from start of the season to end of the US Open' for 2011 because the rest of the season was ruined for Djokovic by back pains.

Fair enough, but 2011 through the US Open is definitely better than 2015 through the US Open. He loses 5 times before the US Open in 2015 to 2 in 2011, and 2011 is harder comp in my opinion. It’s putting of lot of weight in the post US Open part of each year when he had already won 3 majors and guaranteed one of the best seasons ever in each case. I just think 2011 was the more impressive season due to higher peak when he was healthy.

[Odinn21]

Fair enough, but 2011 through the US Open is definitely better than 2015 through the US Open. He loses 5 times before the US Open in 2015 to 2 in 2011, and 2011 is harder comp in my opinion. It’s putting of lot of weight in the post US Open part of each year when he had already won 3 majors and guaranteed one of the best seasons ever in each case. I just think 2011 was the more impressive season due to higher peak when he was healthy.

I already said that 2011 Djokovic is the best I've ever seen. If we limit timeline by end of US Open, here's the results for 2011;

64-2 overall W-L record (.970) / 59-2 against top 100 (.967) / 20-2 against top 10 (.909)
56-2 W-L record in big tournaments (.966) / 22.1 average rank
12 tournaments, 11 finals, 10 titles (3 Grand Slams, 5 Masters 1000, 1 500 series, 1 250 series)
(That's 83.3% tournament wins right there...)
3.50 is the average rank of players Djokovic lost to.

40-1 .976 on hard court / 38-1 .974 on hc against top 100 / 14-1 .933 on hc against top 10
7-0 1.000 on grass court / 6-0 1.000 on gc against top 100 / 1-0 1.000 on gc against top 10
17-1 .944 on clay court / 15-1 .938 on cc against top 100 / 5-1 .833 on cc against top 10
(Talk about an all-around master)

won 56.53% of all points / 56.30% against top 100 / 53.58% against top 10
won 64.51% of all games / 64.02% against top 100 / 58.60% against top 10
won 85.80% of all sets / 85.44% against top 100 / 73.77% against top 10

Just unreal. Just, his 2015 has his 2011 beat due to the weak finish in 2011.

[Dr Positivity]

Fair enough, but 2011 through the US Open is definitely better than 2015 through the US Open. He loses 5 times before the US Open in 2015 to 2 in 2011, and 2011 is harder comp in my opinion. It’s putting of lot of weight in the post US Open part of each year when he had already won 3 majors and guaranteed one of the best seasons ever in each case. I just think 2011 was the more impressive season due to higher peak when he was healthy.

I already said that 2011 Djokovic is the best I've ever seen. If we limit timeline by end of US Open, here's the results for 2011;

64-2 overall W-L record (.970) / 59-2 against top 100 (.967) / 20-2 against top 10 (.909)
56-2 W-L record in big tournaments (.966) / 22.1 average rank
12 tournaments, 11 finals, 10 titles (3 Grand Slams, 5 Masters 1000, 1 500 series, 1 250 series)
(That's 83.3% tournament wins right there...)
3.50 is the average rank of players Djokovic lost to.

40-1 .976 on hard court / 38-1 .974 on hc against top 100 / 14-1 .933 on hc against top 10
7-0 1.000 on grass court / 6-0 1.000 on gc against top 100 / 1-0 1.000 on gc against top 10
17-1 .944 on clay court / 15-1 .938 on cc against top 100 / 5-1 .833 on cc against top 10
(Talk about an all-around master)

won 56.53% of all points / 56.30% against top 100 / 53.58% against top 10
won 64.51% of all games / 64.02% against top 100 / 58.60% against top 10
won 85.80% of all sets / 85.44% against top 100 / 73.77% against top 10

Just unreal. Just, his 2015 has his 2011 beat due to the weak finish in 2011.

The 17-1 claycourt record is ridiculous if you consider Nadal was in his prime at that point. Djokovic winning 2 claycourt titles that year are possibly his highest difficulty wins ever (since Nadal on claycourt is the most overpowered player ever), and they were both straight sets. Whereas in 2015 Nadal didn’t win a single clay court title to show his form at the time. That’s why I think the context behind the stats are key cause 2015 is only a little bit better statistically than 2011 and it could be affected by context like not having to go through the single surface GOAT in his prime. 2015 is the more complete season though.

[ardee]

Fair enough, but 2011 through the US Open is definitely better than 2015 through the US Open. He loses 5 times before the US Open in 2015 to 2 in 2011, and 2011 is harder comp in my opinion. It’s putting of lot of weight in the post US Open part of each year when he had already won 3 majors and guaranteed one of the best seasons ever in each case. I just think 2011 was the more impressive season due to higher peak when he was healthy.

I already said that 2011 Djokovic is the best I've ever seen. If we limit timeline by end of US Open, here's the results for 2011;

64-2 overall W-L record (.970) / 59-2 against top 100 (.967) / 20-2 against top 10 (.909)
56-2 W-L record in big tournaments (.966) / 22.1 average rank
12 tournaments, 11 finals, 10 titles (3 Grand Slams, 5 Masters 1000, 1 500 series, 1 250 series)
(That's 83.3% tournament wins right there...)
3.50 is the average rank of players Djokovic lost to.

40-1 .976 on hard court / 38-1 .974 on hc against top 100 / 14-1 .933 on hc against top 10
7-0 1.000 on grass court / 6-0 1.000 on gc against top 100 / 1-0 1.000 on gc against top 10
17-1 .944 on clay court / 15-1 .938 on cc against top 100 / 5-1 .833 on cc against top 10
(Talk about an all-around master)

won 56.53% of all points / 56.30% against top 100 / 53.58% against top 10
won 64.51% of all games / 64.02% against top 100 / 58.60% against top 10
won 85.80% of all sets / 85.44% against top 100 / 73.77% against top 10

Just unreal. Just, his 2015 has his 2011 beat due to the weak finish in 2011.

But the question is does that weak finish really matter? The competition was a good bit better in 2011. It's like blaming a top seeded team for relaxing a bit after they clinch the 1 seed before the Playoffs.

[Odinn21]

The 17-1 claycourt record is ridiculous if you consider Nadal was in his prime at that point. Djokovic winning 2 claycourt titles that year are possibly his highest difficulty wins ever (since Nadal on claycourt is the most overpowered player ever), and they were both straight sets. Whereas in 2015 Nadal didn’t win a single clay court title to show his form at the time. That’s why I think the context behind the stats are key cause 2015 is only a little bit better statistically than 2011 and it could be affected by context like not having to go through the single surface GOAT in his prime. 2015 is the more complete season though.

You're underselling the difference IMO.
The percentages look close because he lost only 6 games in both years but in 2015 he won 11 more games, won more tournaments and better tournaments, he did considerably better against top 10 ranked players.
.937 and .946 are indeed close but the difference between 59-4 and 70-4 is bigger than 'only a little bit better'.

[ardee]

Fair enough, but 2011 through the US Open is definitely better than 2015 through the US Open. He loses 5 times before the US Open in 2015 to 2 in 2011, and 2011 is harder comp in my opinion. It’s putting of lot of weight in the post US Open part of each year when he had already won 3 majors and guaranteed one of the best seasons ever in each case. I just think 2011 was the more impressive season due to higher peak when he was healthy.

I already said that 2011 Djokovic is the best I've ever seen. If we limit timeline by end of US Open, here's the results for 2011;

64-2 overall W-L record (.970) / 59-2 against top 100 (.967) / 20-2 against top 10 (.909)
56-2 W-L record in big tournaments (.966) / 22.1 average rank
12 tournaments, 11 finals, 10 titles (3 Grand Slams, 5 Masters 1000, 1 500 series, 1 250 series)
(That's 83.3% tournament wins right there...)
3.50 is the average rank of players Djokovic lost to.

40-1 .976 on hard court / 38-1 .974 on hc against top 100 / 14-1 .933 on hc against top 10
7-0 1.000 on grass court / 6-0 1.000 on gc against top 100 / 1-0 1.000 on gc against top 10
17-1 .944 on clay court / 15-1 .938 on cc against top 100 / 5-1 .833 on cc against top 10
(Talk about an all-around master)

won 56.53% of all points / 56.30% against top 100 / 53.58% against top 10
won 64.51% of all games / 64.02% against top 100 / 58.60% against top 10
won 85.80% of all sets / 85.44% against top 100 / 73.77% against top 10

Just unreal. Just, his 2015 has his 2011 beat due to the weak finish in 2011.

The 17-1 claycourt record is ridiculous if you consider Nadal was in his prime at that point. Djokovic winning 2 claycourt titles that year are possibly his highest difficulty wins ever (since Nadal on claycourt is the most overpowered player ever), and they were both straight sets. Whereas in 2015 Nadal didn’t win a single clay court title to show his form at the time. That’s why I think the context behind the stats are key cause 2015 is only a little bit better statistically than 2011 and it could be affected by context like not having to go through the single surface GOAT in his prime. 2015 is the more complete season though.

2015 he beat Nadal at RG in straight sets.... that was something too. I know he was out of form, but still, to almost bagel the GOAT clay court player at his favorite venue..

[Odinn21]

But the question is does that weak finish really matter? The competition was a good bit better in 2011. It's like blaming a top seeded team for relaxing a bit after they clinch the 1 seed before the Playoffs.

Sure it matters. Why wouldn't it. The finish has the 5th most important tournament of the season with the Tour Finals after Grand Slams and he couldn't make it against Berdych, Ferrer and Tipsarevic and lost in group stages. He was 17-7 against those 3 going into the tournament and he lost to Ferrer and Tipsarevic.

He finished the season weak because he had issues on his back BTW. It wasn't a choice. He didn't underperform because he was relaxing.

[ardee]

I am not even going to lie I really don't like Djokovic. I've been a big Federer fan for 11 years now, and while those Rafa losses were painful (particularly 2009 Wimbledon and 2009 Oz), I could live with it and honestly respect him now. At least Rafa beat peak Federer.... Djokovic, while he beat peak Nadal and slightly post-prime Federer in 2011, then went on to win only 3 Slams in the next 3 years, and then from 2015-2020 has been beating up on a fairly weak circuit, especially 2015-2016 when Nadal and Federer seemed done. Then Federer/Nadal have their revival and in 2017 and Djokovic is shut out for the next eighteen months.

A lot of Djokovic's mid-decade wins don't feel earned. He beat a 34 and 35 year old Federer to the 2014 and 2015 Wimbledon and 2015 US Open. Easy to beat up on an old man, beating 2004-2009 Federer is a different ballgame. People act as if he faced 2011 competition every year....

I think 2011 Djokovic was in contention for the GOAT peak but he'll never be the overall GOAT no matter what the numbers say IMO.

[Odinn21]

I am not even going to lie I really don't like Djokovic. I've been a big Federer fan for 11 years now, and while those Rafa losses were painful (particularly 2009 Wimbledon and 2009 Oz), I could live with it and honestly respect him now. At least Rafa beat peak Federer.... Djokovic, while he beat peak Nadal and slightly post-prime Federer in 2011, then went on to win only 3 Slams in the next 3 years, and then from 2015-2020 has been beating up on a fairly weak circuit, especially 2015-2016 when Nadal and Federer seemed done. Then Federer/Nadal have their revival and in 2017 and Djokovic is shut out for the next eighteen months.

A lot of Djokovic's mid-decade wins don't feel earned. He beat a 34 and 35 year old Federer to the 2014 and 2015 Wimbledon and 2015 US Open. Easy to beat up on an old man, beating 2004-2009 Federer is a different ballgame. People act as if he faced 2011 competition every year....

I think 2011 Djokovic was in contention for the GOAT peak but he'll never be the overall GOAT no matter what the numbers say IMO.

I find Djokovic quite antipathetic but I've grown to respect how good he is.

Though people tend to overrate him by tiptoeing around how Federer played against a weaker competition. Those lads are not aware of that Federer is not the only one they are disrespecting. They talk about Hewitt as if Hewitt was a bad player. He was better than Thiem or del Potro or even Wavrinka. Roddick and Davydenko were better than Tsonga and Berdych.

In tennis, it's very rare to have historically good multiple players in their prime together. I wish we had a time machine and we had the chance to see the ultimate showdown between the trio (2006 or 2007 Federer, 2010 Nadal, 2011 or 2015 Djokovic).
Statistically 2010 Nadal is the worst of the lot and I'm a Federer fan myself, but I like his chances. At least his chance would be better than what his stats would suggest, that's what I mean.