Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[payitforward]

...As I've been saying.. Ted has no intention of a longterm extended rebuild.

Mahinmi and potentially Thomas Bryant will be gone by Thursday, I wish them the best.

1. What Ted intends has no effect on reality. The only kind of "rebuild" that actually exists is a "long-term extended rebuild." Of course, you may still be right (history is on your side). The result will be a complete debacle.

2. If it's Mahinmi alone who's gone, that tells us nothing about the Wizards' intentions (depending on who/what they take back, of course).

3. If Bryant is gone, then we learn a lot. Above all, we learn what we had every reason to fear: much of Ernie's mess was actually created by Ted. We'll soon see another such mess. I'm starting to hope you are right that there's a good chance we land Ujiri. He would tell Ted to butt out (& maybe educate him some as well).

[payitforward]

No chance a Wall, Beal, and Drummond core is remotely close to winning a championship. You need a top 10 player in the league at the absolute minimum to compete for a title (Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi, Harden). Hate to say it but this team really isn't going deep into the playoffs in the near future.

What about a core Wall, Beal, Love, Drummond ?? ... https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7282011

Esshhh... For the life of me I cant understand why some of you'll want to make these trades. Overpaid, overrated, dinosaurs that will cap us out and make us a 5th seed...No thanks.

The plans should be simple. Evaluate the Wall/Beal backcourt next year, develop Brown, Rui, Bryant, etc., hit on a top 10 pick this year...
Thats it.

Assuming all of those things end of in a positive direction, then we will be a 45-50 team and re-evaluate the possible addition of a another mid 20's vet using some combination of picks and young players... But we are at least 1, if not two trade deadlines from that kinda move.

Hallelujah -- someone talking sense!

Let's just hope that our fear that we trade young & future for old & now (which turns out to be "past") is just the ghost of Ernie past. Otherwise... we are cooked.

[gambitx777]

Dolan's gonna spend the GDP of a small nation to get MU I don't think Ted can out spend Dolan.

...As I've been saying.. Ted has no intention of a longterm extended rebuild.

Mahinmi and potentially Thomas Bryant will be gone by Thursday, I wish them the best.

1. What Ted intends has no effect on reality. The only kind of "rebuild" that actually exists is a "long-term extended rebuild." Of course, you may still be right (history is on your side). The result will be a complete debacle.

2. If it's Mahinmi alone who's gone, that tells us nothing about the Wizards' intentions (depending on who/what they take back, of course).

3. If Bryant is gone, then we learn a lot. Above all, we learn what we had every reason to fear: much of Ernie's mess was actually created by Ted. We'll soon see another such mess. I'm starting to hope you are right that there's a good chance we land Ujiri. He would tell Ted to butt out (& maybe educate him some as well).

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[pcbothwel]

...As I've been saying.. Ted has no intention of a longterm extended rebuild.

Mahinmi and potentially Thomas Bryant will be gone by Thursday, I wish them the best.

1. What Ted intends has no effect on reality. The only kind of "rebuild" that actually exists is a "long-term extended rebuild." Of course, you may still be right (history is on your side). The result will be a complete debacle.

2. If it's Mahinmi alone who's gone, that tells us nothing about the Wizards' intentions (depending on who/what they take back, of course).

3. If Bryant is gone, then we learn a lot. Above all, we learn what we had every reason to fear: much of Ernie's mess was actually created by Ted. We'll soon see another such mess. I'm starting to hope you are right that there's a good chance we land Ujiri. He would tell Ted to butt out (& maybe educate him some as well).

I agree with Ill that Ted doesnt want a long (4-5 year) rebuild, but that doesnt equate to being a buyer now.
Last year was NOT a rebuilding year, it just turned out that way near the deadline.
This year was a rebuilding year, obviously.
Next year will begin the ramp up of another 2-3 year run with Wall and Beal.

So thats like 1.5-2 years of rebuilding, not prolonged in any way.
I believe they will let Brooks coach out his last year, gauge the Wall/Beal dynamic, and further develop the young players.

Again, I believe Brown, Bonga, Bertans, Bryant, Rui, and our 2020 pick will far and away be the most dynamic, athletic, talented, and youthful group Wall and Beal have ever been around. Sprinkle in a Full MLE player and a decent Vet min player and we might have a very interesting 8-10 man rotation.

[payitforward]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Ian & a second round pick for Thompson? Why not?

Everyone freaks out about giving up a second round pick, but we already have 5-6 first and second year players to develop with at least one more coming on board with the 2020 draft. Not to mention Sanon stashed away overseas. Plus there's always a good chance you can buy a second round pick.

I'm tired of teams outrebounding the Zards and getting easy buckets at the rim. Thompson would help address that. I'd make that trade, especially if I thought I could resign Tristan at a reasonable salary.

Zards, this is not about Tristan Thompson; it's about how much do you pay for something. Could be a trade-in for a car. Could be anything.

Thompson is expiring. Cleveland is not interested in retaining him. If they give us Thompson for Mahinmi straight up, they get a benefit ($3m) at no cost to them whatever. OTOH, if we trade for Thompson, giving up an extra asset, with the idea of keeping him, we give ourselves trouble. Either he'll be too expensive, & retaining him will handcuff us for any other moves, or if he draws little competitive interest & we want him... he'll be there to sign in the off season. This is not a player at a level where you make absolutely sure you don't miss on him by giving up more than he's worth so you have him now.

As to rebounding, Thompson gets a big 1.5 more rebounds per 36 minutes than Thomas Bryant. & Bryant has big future value, but Thompson has little or none.

You know how much I hate to trade picks. But, I'd trade our R1 pick this year for Mitchell Robinson. Sooner than give up our R2 pick for Thompson.

[Ruzious]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Ian & a second round pick for Thompson? Why not?

Everyone freaks out about giving up a second round pick, but we already have 5-6 first and second year players to develop with at least one more coming on board with the 2020 draft. Not to mention Sanon stashed away overseas. Plus there's always a good chance you can buy a second round pick.

I'm tired of teams outrebounding the Zards and getting easy buckets at the rim. Thompson would help address that. I'd make that trade, especially if I thought I could resign Tristan at a reasonable salary.

Zards, this is not about Tristan Thompson; it's about how much do you pay for something. Could be a trade-in for a car. Could be anything.

Thompson is expiring. Cleveland is not interested in retaining him. If they give us Thompson for Mahinmi straight up, they get a benefit ($3m) at no cost to them whatever. OTOH, if we trade for Thompson, giving up an extra asset, with the idea of keeping him, we give ourselves trouble. Either he'll be too expensive, & retaining him will handcuff us for any other moves, or if he draws little competitive interest & we want him... he'll be there to sign in the off season. This is not a player at a level where you make absolutely sure you don't miss on him by giving up more than he's worth so you have him now.

As to rebounding, Thompson gets a big 1.5 more rebounds per 36 minutes than Thomas Bryant. & Bryant has big future value, but Thompson has little or none.

You know how much I hate to trade picks. But, I'd trade our R1 pick this year for Mitchell Robinson. Sooner than give up our R2 pick for Thompson.

But... we might get 1 or even possibly 2 more wins this season if we trade Ian and a pick for Thompson. Hey, that way we could get a lower pick in the 2020 draft! Gotta wonder why that sounds enticing to some folks. Permamediocrity isn't a good thing. Actually, it's not a thing - I just made it up. It doesn't even have a website. It'd be too average.

[gambitx777]

All of us are clearly still having flash backs to what EG would do. But it's totally possible we have reasonable interest in TT but the Cavs want something unreasonable and we just walk away .

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

"Permamediocrity" -- that's the Ted Leonsis way. Don't you recall what Ted outlined in his original 10 point plan: you should build through the draft in order to contend for a title, & if after 2 years you aren't contending you should immediately trade for whatever veterans any other team will let you have for the useless value of your future.

Otherwise, people will see that you are a bozo who became a billionaire on the back of a business that someone utterly unlike him created & that since that you haven't been successful at any business endeavor that you didn't simply buy with some of that billion.

I know that's unfair. If Ted doesn't force Tommy to do something stupid before the deadline (e.g. give more than Mahinmi alone for Thompson -- not that even that trade qualifies as particularly "smart"), I promise to take it back.

[payitforward]

All of us are clearly still having flash backs to what EG would do. But it's totally possible we have reasonable interest in TT but the Cavs want something unreasonable and we just walk away .

Except that you already suggested an unreasonable trade for TT & called it pretty good. So... no thanks.

If we were able to trade Mahinmi for the # 50 pick in the draft, for example, that would be better than getting the expiring Tristan Thompson for him. Far better. With the #50 pick, you have a chance to get someone like Monte Morris. Or Manu Ginobili. Or E'Twaun Moore. Or the young IT. Or a dozen other useful players.

Giving more than Mahinmi for Thompson would signal that we have 100% returned to the Ernie Grunfeld era -- except that we will no understand that it wasn't Ernie. It was Ted. The man who after going 32-50 after 10 years of his ownership fired his GM, because "we are a culture of accountability."

You're fired, Ted. I'm letting you go. Someone had to do it.

[gambitx777]

I really don't believe that trading Ian for TT is a terrible trade and I also don't think that adding in admiral is a bad idea either if. We infact feel we have seen enough of him and are ready to move on. We would still have our second this year to replace him and an open spot to being in and look at another guy .I understand your frustrations . But trading Ian and admiral or ian and a second. Isn't like trading a first for Morris or Mike Miller. Also what if we then turn around and flip McRae for a second in the same year we give up? I need to see the big picture first before we make that call that nothing has changed .

All of us are clearly still having flash backs to what EG would do. But it's totally possible we have reasonable interest in TT but the Cavs want something unreasonable and we just walk away .

Except that you already suggested an unreasonable trade for TT & called it pretty good. So... no thanks.

If we were able to trade Mahinmi for the # 50 pick in the draft, for example, that would be better than getting the expiring Tristan Thompson for him. Far better. With the #50 pick, you have a chance to get someone like Monte Morris. Or Manu Ginobili. Or E'Twaun Moore. Or the young IT. Or a dozen other useful players.

Giving more than Mahinmi for Thompson would signal that we have 100% returned to the Ernie Grunfeld era -- except that we will no understand that it wasn't Ernie. It was Ted. The man who after going 32-50 after 10 years of his ownership fired his GM, because "we are a culture of accountability."

You're fired, Ted. I'm letting you go. Someone had to do it.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[DCZards]

Trading for Tristan is not about wins this season. I wouldn’t consider trading for him if I didn’t think he’d resign at a reasonable salary.

The Zards desperately need to get tougher and more physical and become a better rebounding team. Thompson gives you that. There may be other and better options than TT for improving in those areas...but it ain’t Wagner, Bryant or any of the others bigs currently on the roster.

[gambitx777]

I also feel in my heart of hearts that rui is gonna play some 3 and mo is gonna play a lot of 4 and if you think of it that way we do in another center .

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

I really don't believe that trading Ian for TT is a terrible trade and I also don't think that adding in admiral is a bad idea either if. We infact feel we have seen enough of him and are ready to move on. We would still have our second this year to replace him and an open spot to being in and look at another guy .I understand your frustrations . But trading Ian and admiral or ian and a second. Isn't like trading a first for Morris or Mike Miller. Also what if we then turn around and flip McRae for a second in the same year we give up? I need to see the big picture first before we make that call that nothing has changed .

All of us are clearly still having flash backs to what EG would do. But it's totally possible we have reasonable interest in TT but the Cavs want something unreasonable and we just walk away .

Except that you already suggested an unreasonable trade for TT & called it pretty good. So... no thanks.

If we were able to trade Mahinmi for the # 50 pick in the draft, for example, that would be better than getting the expiring Tristan Thompson for him. Far better. With the #50 pick, you have a chance to get someone like Monte Morris. Or Manu Ginobili. Or E'Twaun Moore. Or the young IT. Or a dozen other useful players.

Giving more than Mahinmi for Thompson would signal that we have 100% returned to the Ernie Grunfeld era -- except that we will no understand that it wasn't Ernie. It was Ted. The man who after going 32-50 after 10 years of his ownership fired his GM, because "we are a culture of accountability."

You're fired, Ted. I'm letting you go. Someone had to do it.

First off, I think we can agree that I am over-reacting. So, my apologies for losing my cool -- nothing has even happened yet! 2 decades plus of sh*t will do that to you.

Your points are nonetheless empty ones. For starters, if Admiral has no value, then he doesn't help you make a trade. If he helps you make a trade, then he has value & can help you make a different trade. If he has no value, then he is of no more interest to Cleveland than he is to us.

No, trading Ian & a pick for Thompson is not as bad as trading a lottery pick for Kieff. So what? A fender bender is not as bad as catching a serious disease. Does that mean I should go get into a fender bender?

Whether we can trade McRae or not has no bearing on whether any other trade is a good one or a bad one.

[payitforward]

Since, this is the case:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257060/Tristan-Thompson-Seeking-Trade-From-Cavaliers-By-Deadline

there is no need to give anything for Thompson but Mahinmi. In fact, we might be able to get a pick from them -- for taking him off their hands.

Alternatively, EG + Mahinmi for Thompson would make the deal altogether different & very palatable.

[JAR69]

Mahinmi vs. TT comparison is interesting - closer than you would think. http://bkref.com/tiny/sBBQA

Bringing back Ian at the minimum would probably be a better move than paying TT what he will want. Seriously.

[gambitx777]

Since, this is the case:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257060/Tristan-Thompson-Seeking-Trade-From-Cavaliers-By-Deadline

there is no need to give anything for Thompson but Mahinmi. In fact, we might be able to get a pick from them -- for taking him off their hands.

Alternatively, EG + Mahinmi for Thompson would make the deal altogether different & very palatable.

Fair points piff so would you see this as fair.

Ian and 3 mill in cash for TT and the Wiz 2022 second the Cavs own, they have 4 seconds 3 or 4 that year by my count. And giving a team their own pick back seem like a low level enough asset. This saved them 3 mill and the wiz match and bassically buy the pick back making the total savings about 6+ mill.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Since, this is the case:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257060/Tristan-Thompson-Seeking-Trade-From-Cavaliers-By-Deadline

there is no need to give anything for Thompson but Mahinmi. In fact, we might be able to get a pick from them -- for taking him off their hands.

Alternatively, EG + Mahinmi for Thompson would make the deal altogether different & very palatable.

Fair points piff so would you see this as fair.

Ian and 3 mill in cash for TT and the Wiz 2022 second the Cavs own, they have 4 seconds 3 or 4 that year by my count. And giving a team their own pick back seem like a low level enough asset. This saved them 3 mill and the wiz match and bassically buy the pick back making the total savings about 6+ mill.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

So trading for TT raises numerous questions . First for me would be is this an indication they're losing faith in Bryant? So, I'm not opposed to sprinkling in a few vets in the roster, especially one who defends and rebounds. So the benefit to trading for TT now is We get his bird rights. Without a deal like this, we will be very hard pressed to find the cap space to sign any free agents, so this puts us in position with Bird rights on TT and Bertans to exceed the cap to essentially sign two free agents.

So generally speaking, we would be swapping out Mahinmi for TT, which most would agree is an upgrade. I like Admiral, but he seems to be odd man out as far as getting much opportunity here behind Bonga and TBJ , plus if we draft another SF like Okoro. Now the issue becomes what about Bryant, and Wagner? Well having too much big man depth is a nice problem to have with fouls and injuries to overcome. Having a guy like TT that Bryant and Wagner and Hachimura can learn from May not be a bad idea also. Plus there is some versatility as some of these guys can play multiple postions.

Mahinmi/Admiral for TT would be reasonable trade IMO.

TT, Bryant, AP
Bertans, Hachimura, Wagner
Bonga, TBJ
Beal, McRae, Matthews
Wall, Ish

Plus our 2 draft picks....

[payitforward]

Since, this is the case:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257060/Tristan-Thompson-Seeking-Trade-From-Cavaliers-By-Deadline

there is no need to give anything for Thompson but Mahinmi. In fact, we might be able to get a pick from them -- for taking him off their hands.

Alternatively, EG + Mahinmi for Thompson would make the deal altogether different & very palatable.

Fair points piff so would you see this as fair.

Ian and 3 mill in cash for TT and the Wiz 2022 second the Cavs own, they have 4 seconds 3 or 4 that year by my count. And giving a team their own pick back seem like a low level enough asset. This saved them 3 mill and the wiz match and bassically buy the pick back making the total savings about 6+ mill.

Well, if Ian for Thompson straight up is fine in my book, then the question is just whether buying that 2022 R2 pick for $3m is reasonable, right?

Keep in mind the concept of "present value of money." If you give me a dollar today that's worth more to me than a dollar you're going to give me a year from now. Simple concept.

Let's assume that the price of a pick in the top, say, 12 picks of R2 this year is somewhere around $3m. That seems to be about what GMs will pay. So, if $3m will buy me a pick this year, why would I spend it for a pick in 2 years? IOW, in that sense, no, that's not a reasonable deal.

Now... I'm not recalling, but is 2022 the first draft in which high school grads will be eligible? If so, there will be more than the usual talent available that year -- all those who would be available w/o the rule change plus the extra guys who are suddenly draft-eligible. In that draft, IOW, the #40 player picked will be a guy who would have earlier the previous year. That might easily make the difference, make it worth while to pay more for a R2 pick that year -- more, that is, in the sense of paying for it now.

So... is 2022 the first year high school graduates will be draftable again?

[payitforward]

...Mahinmi/Admiral for TT would be reasonable trade IMO....

Why? Why should we give them more than Mahinmi on his own? Please explain.

Thompson wants out. They have no intention (& would have no ability) to retain him next season. They aren't going anywhere this season, so it doesn't matter to them if Thompson is "better" than Mahinmi. & a straight swap saves them $3m.

Why would we give them another asset of any kind? To be nice? To...? Why?

[payitforward]

Since, this is the case:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/257060/Tristan-Thompson-Seeking-Trade-From-Cavaliers-By-Deadline

there is no need to give anything for Thompson but Mahinmi. In fact, we might be able to get a pick from them -- for taking him off their hands.

Alternatively, EG + Mahinmi for Thompson would make the deal altogether different & very palatable.

Can't believe I wrote "EG" -- make that...

IT + Mahinmi for Thompson -- that's a deal I could like.