Dr Spaceman wrote:MrBigShot wrote:Jimmy Butler isn't on the same level as Kobe, Vince and T-Mac at their athletic peaks. Butler is a very good athlete but not really an elite one; I think the strength component is getting vastly overrated here. Virtually any player can acquire strength, but you can't simply go from a meh athlete to a top tier one in terms of speed and explosiveness. It's the rare combination of strength to go along with top shelf speed and explosiveness that is really special. You don't see many athletes with the combination of strength & other athletic characteristics that Zion and LeBron have. And if we are talking about body control, Kobe/Vince/T-Mac have managed to complete some of the most ridiculously silly layups and dunks that you have to see with your own eyes to believe.
Kobe imo was very much an elite athlete at his athletic peak, but not on par with the really transcendent athletes like MJ and LeBron as others have mentioned.
Is there any scientific basis at all for what you’re saying here? You seriously don’t think there is a strong genetic component to strength and the ability to put on muscle? I can point to dozens of studies that say the opposite.
One major study, for example, showed that muscle gain can differ between individuals but as much as 58% with the exact same diet and training regimen for complete beginners. The overall genetic component for strength reading is believed to be around 50% heritable. Hair color is 61% heritable and eye color is 80% heritable, for reference.
There is absolutely a genetic basis for it, but you're extrapolating what I said and vastly misrepresenting my point. Any player being able to acquire strength and strength/muscle having genetic components are not mutually exclusive things. We are discussing professional athletes with access to the absolute best equipment, trainers, and dietitians. Athletes that are required to do A LOT of running and start stop + change of direction movements that will cause wear and tear over time, so there is a pretty stark disparity between how much muscle they put on relative to how much they could potentially put on.
Give a relatively young average man access to the same resources an NBA player has and they would put on a significant muscle and become pretty strong relative to others with their physical profile. The genetic component will influence how fast they can do so and what their max potential is naturally, but the point remains. Strength & muscle are a matter of progressively overloading muscles and diet. On the other hand kind of explosion, speed, quickness and leaping ability that the absolute best nba players have...an average joe just wont be able to get close to that with or without professional resources. This is why we see excellent athletes who put on muscle and become stronger, but not really strong average athletes who become excellent athletes. Stanley Johnson is a great example of that; immensely strong player that nobody would consider to be a great athlete.