Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[dckingsfan]

I just realized something... we actually got younger today. A fair amount younger. & better too. A bit better, no doubt.

Addition by subtraction (IT)

Napier is major upgrade over IT, may even be upgrade on Ish...

Robinson is 6 yrs younger than McRae.

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

[gambitx777]

Yeah wall is going to be on load management probably for ever. Having two good point guards to back him up is nice. If we sneak into the play offs, managing Walls minutes will be key.

I just realized something... we actually got younger today. A fair amount younger. & better too. A bit better, no doubt.

Addition by subtraction (IT)

Napier is major upgrade over IT, may even be upgrade on Ish...

Robinson is 6 yrs younger than McRae.

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

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[pcbothwel]

Jerry West and the Clippers front office took SGA and they must've seen something in Robinson to take him as well. Maybe they traded him to the Wizards because they want to see him succeed and we are far away from impacting their record or playoff hopes.

This is my hope. While Robinson has limited ceiling, its hard to imagine his skillset not translating into a quality 6th man... But im sure folks thought the same about John Jenkins and Nik Stauskas as well

[nate33]

I just realized something... we actually got younger today. A fair amount younger. & better too. A bit better, no doubt.

Addition by subtraction (IT)

Napier is major upgrade over IT, may even be upgrade on Ish...

Robinson is 6 yrs younger than McRae.

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

It's far from certain whether Napier will be retained.

We have his Early Bird rights which means we can pay him up to $2.4M. If he costs more, we will have to use a portion of the MLE which we may not want to do for a 3rd string PG. I'm assuming that money is earmarked for a veteran forward or center. Further complicating things is that Napier probably won't want to stay here to be a 3rd string PG when he is good enough to be a 2nd string PG elsewhere. I'm guessing if the offers are comparable, he'll choose the team that gives him more minutes, which won't be us.

So basically, if he only gets offered the vet min by other teams ($1.8M), he might choose to play here for his Early Bird cost of $2.4M. But if someone offers a bit more, he'll probably go elsewhere because I don't think we will raise the ante much. I suppose we might be willing to offer the Bi-Annual Exception of $3.6M, but that's probably the highest we will go.

And by the way, Ish Smith alone should be enough to keep Wall's minutes down. Wall won't be playing 38 minutes on a typical night, he'll play 28-30 with Ish getting 18-20. And we might be drafting a PG or combo guard in the draft.

[dckingsfan]

Addition by subtraction (IT)

Napier is major upgrade over IT, may even be upgrade on Ish...

Robinson is 6 yrs younger than McRae.

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

It's far from certain whether Napier will be retained.

We have his Early Bird rights which means we can pay him up to $2.4M. If he costs more, we will have to use a portion of the MLE which we may not want to do for a 3rd string PG. I'm assuming that money is earmarked for a veteran forward or center. Further complicating things is that Napier probably won't want to stay here to be a 3rd string PG when he is good enough to be a 2nd string PG elsewhere. I'm guessing if the offers are comparable, he'll choose the team that gives him more minutes, which won't be us.

So basically, if he only gets offered the vet min by other teams ($1.8M), he might choose to play here for his Early Bird cost of $2.4M. But if someone offers a bit more, he'll probably go elsewhere because I don't think we will raise the ante much. I suppose we might be willing to offer the Bi-Annual Exception of $3.6M, but that's probably the highest we will go.

And by the way, Ish Smith alone should be enough to keep Wall's minutes down. Wall won't be playing 38 minutes on a typical night, he'll play 28-30 with Ish getting 18-20. And we might be drafting a PG or combo guard in the draft.

That's where I think it is going to end up. And injuries happen...

Of course this draft is also deep in PGs - so that could happen as well.

[nate33]

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

It's far from certain whether Napier will be retained.

We have his Early Bird rights which means we can pay him up to $2.4M. If he costs more, we will have to use a portion of the MLE which we may not want to do for a 3rd string PG. I'm assuming that money is earmarked for a veteran forward or center. Further complicating things is that Napier probably won't want to stay here to be a 3rd string PG when he is good enough to be a 2nd string PG elsewhere. I'm guessing if the offers are comparable, he'll choose the team that gives him more minutes, which won't be us.

So basically, if he only gets offered the vet min by other teams ($1.8M), he might choose to play here for his Early Bird cost of $2.4M. But if someone offers a bit more, he'll probably go elsewhere because I don't think we will raise the ante much. I suppose we might be willing to offer the Bi-Annual Exception of $3.6M, but that's probably the highest we will go.

And by the way, Ish Smith alone should be enough to keep Wall's minutes down. Wall won't be playing 38 minutes on a typical night, he'll play 28-30 with Ish getting 18-20. And we might be drafting a PG or combo guard in the draft.

That's where I think it is going to end up. And injuries happen...

Of course this draft is also deep in PGs - so that could happen as well.

Jerome Robinson is another candidate for 3rd string PG. Looking at his highlights, he does have the ability to run some pick and roll.

But if we can keep Napier for just $2.4M, I'm all for it. If nothing else, it makes one of Ish/Napier expendable at the Trade Deadline after we've grown confident in Wall's leg.

[payitforward]

Isn’t it fascinating how the Zards now have three players from the first round of the 2018 draft. It’s as if they traded down and got multiple picks…as many here would have liked to see them do.

There’s the 13th pick (Robinson), who TS and the Zards were apparently high on before the draft; there’s the 15th pick (Brown), who none of us had on our radar screen but is really turning out to be a very nice NBA player; and then there’s the 25th pick (Wagner), who 2-3 people on this board wanted the Zards to draft.

And, of course, there’s Bonga, the 39th pick in that same draft.

That’s four potential rotation players from the same draft. (I know, the keyword is "potential".) The Zards recently-beefed up development team, which has done a good job thus far with Brown, Bryant, Wagner and Bonga, has its hands full, especially when you add in Rui, Robinson, Mathews, and a likely lottery pick this year.

At least they are finally following the PIF formula for success...collect young players and coach'em up. Got to say it's not only different but also kinda exciting and intriguing.

Zards, no! Come on! Had they actually had all those picks, they could have done much better!

Let's see... hmm... ok, I've got it! We would have traded the #13 & 15 (using Pelton's chart) up for the #3 -- giving us Luka Doncic. Then, we would trade the #25 pick for #s 34 & 36 -- to get Jalen Brunson & Mitchell Robinson. For pick #39, the Bonga pick, we would have gotten #s 46 & 54, so that we could pick up DeAnthony Melton & Shake Milton.

Now that is what I call a draft, Zards!

[payitforward]

Addition by subtraction (IT)

Napier is major upgrade over IT, may even be upgrade on Ish...

Robinson is 6 yrs younger than McRae.

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

It's far from certain whether Napier will be retained.

We have his Early Bird rights which means we can pay him up to $2.4M. If he costs more, we will have to use a portion of the MLE which we may not want to do for a 3rd string PG. I'm assuming that money is earmarked for a veteran forward or center. Further complicating things is that Napier probably won't want to stay here to be a 3rd string PG when he is good enough to be a 2nd string PG elsewhere. I'm guessing if the offers are comparable, he'll choose the team that gives him more minutes, which won't be us.

So basically, if he only gets offered the vet min by other teams ($1.8M), he might choose to play here for his Early Bird cost of $2.4M. But if someone offers a bit more, he'll probably go elsewhere because I don't think we will raise the ante much. I suppose we might be willing to offer the Bi-Annual Exception of $3.6M, but that's probably the highest we will go.

And by the way, Ish Smith alone should be enough to keep Wall's minutes down. Wall won't be playing 38 minutes on a typical night, he'll play 28-30 with Ish getting 18-20. And we might be drafting a PG or combo guard in the draft.

If Napier is a plus player at whatever salary he gets (which, after all, isn't going to be a whole lot), keep him. Why would we earmark a back up position for one guy? The more productive player will get the minutes. if Napier wins, well, Ish has still shown he's ok value for his salary, so he'll be tradable. If Ish wins, then trade Napier

Similarly, I wonder whether any money is inflexibly "earmarked" to any position. You have to find a guy who is really worth having. As it is, we have 3 Centers on the roster, & at least 2 of them fit Tommy's picture of a "50 3-point attempts a night" picture of the league.

We're not trying to win anything next year any more than we are this year. Whatever we say about building around Beal/Wall, as we just saw yesterday we are not fooling ourselves about acquiring "win-now" players.

If we get better fast enough that we are contending for the East in 3 seasons (that would be very quick success IMO!), John will still be here. Assuming we're improving along the way so will Brad.

Of course... I could be wrong! We'll see.....

[pcbothwel]

It's far from certain whether Napier will be retained.

We have his Early Bird rights which means we can pay him up to $2.4M. If he costs more, we will have to use a portion of the MLE which we may not want to do for a 3rd string PG. I'm assuming that money is earmarked for a veteran forward or center. Further complicating things is that Napier probably won't want to stay here to be a 3rd string PG when he is good enough to be a 2nd string PG elsewhere. I'm guessing if the offers are comparable, he'll choose the team that gives him more minutes, which won't be us.

So basically, if he only gets offered the vet min by other teams ($1.8M), he might choose to play here for his Early Bird cost of $2.4M. But if someone offers a bit more, he'll probably go elsewhere because I don't think we will raise the ante much. I suppose we might be willing to offer the Bi-Annual Exception of $3.6M, but that's probably the highest we will go.

And by the way, Ish Smith alone should be enough to keep Wall's minutes down. Wall won't be playing 38 minutes on a typical night, he'll play 28-30 with Ish getting 18-20. And we might be drafting a PG or combo guard in the draft.

That's where I think it is going to end up. And injuries happen...

Of course this draft is also deep in PGs - so that could happen as well.

Jerome Robinson is another candidate for 3rd string PG. Looking at his highlights, he does have the ability to run some pick and roll.

But if we can keep Napier for just $2.4M, I'm all for it. If nothing else, it makes one of Ish/Napier expendable at the Trade Deadline after we've grown confident in Wall's leg.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/5/19/17367140/2018-nba-draft-scouting-report-jerome-robinson-boston-college-atlanta-hawks

He produced 101 point on 97 possessions on pick and rolls that resulted in a shot opportunity (94th percentile). On plays that resulted in a shot or a pass to a shooter, he facilitated the production of 191 points on 194 possessions (80th percentile) which is a very nice mark for a player that is also strong off of the ball. In spot up situations he produced 169 points on 152 shooting possessions (84th percentile).

Again, limited ceiling, but I think picking up guys like him, Mathews, Bonga, and Wagner for (relevantly) nothing will be big for us moving forward.
Having young, hungry guys on the bench keeps everyone on their toes and creates for a really strong, competitive culture in practice.
They could also be nice pieces in a consolidation trade moving forward

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I just realized something... we actually got younger today. A fair amount younger. & better too. A bit better, no doubt.

Addition by subtraction (IT)

Napier is major upgrade over IT, may even be upgrade on Ish...

Robinson is 6 yrs younger than McRae.

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

Excellent point

[closg00]

I thought this was interesting from Tommy Sheppard's comments on why the Zards didn't trade Bertans. Particularly interesting is what he says about how many 3pt shots to expect in the future. I suspect Jerome Robinson fits in with this vision.

Another reason why Bertans is still in Washington is that he fits perfectly into the direction they want their roster to go. Bertans has emerged as one of the best 3-point shooters in the NBA, this year shooting 42.9% on 8.4 attempts per game from long range.

Sheppard envisions Bertans running the floor with guards John Wall and Bradley Beal with Rui Hachimura carving up the midrange and their centers running to the rim.

"The shooting is the big aspect that is so exciting for us. That just opens up the floor when John Wall comes back," Sheppard said. "Fifty three-point field goal attempts a night will probably be the norm in the next two years or three years. That's where the game is going."

We need this kind of Center, we haven't had one to fit the bill since JaVale and Bryant doesn't fit the bill either but is fine as a back-up.

[gambitx777]

Bryant is an excellent back up. No is more of a of imo and I'll hold to that. We should probably draft a tall bouncy rebounder in the second round. Or trade back


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[payitforward]

Addition by subtraction (IT)

Napier is major upgrade over IT, may even be upgrade on Ish...

Robinson is 6 yrs younger than McRae.

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

Excellent point

I don't know about excellent, but both Smith & Napier are pretty good points....

[Ruzious]

I thought this was interesting from Tommy Sheppard's comments on why the Zards didn't trade Bertans. Particularly interesting is what he says about how many 3pt shots to expect in the future. I suspect Jerome Robinson fits in with this vision.

Another reason why Bertans is still in Washington is that he fits perfectly into the direction they want their roster to go. Bertans has emerged as one of the best 3-point shooters in the NBA, this year shooting 42.9% on 8.4 attempts per game from long range.

Sheppard envisions Bertans running the floor with guards John Wall and Bradley Beal with Rui Hachimura carving up the midrange and their centers running to the rim.

"The shooting is the big aspect that is so exciting for us. That just opens up the floor when John Wall comes back," Sheppard said. "Fifty three-point field goal attempts a night will probably be the norm in the next two years or three years. That's where the game is going."

We need this kind of Center, we haven't had one to fit the bill since JaVale and Bryant doesn't fit the bill either but is fine as a back-up.

But that's maybe Bryant's biggest strength - running to the rim and finishing pnr's - particularly with Beal. Offensively, he's excellent. It's his D that's the problem.

[Ruzious]

Let me add another thing... Wall is coming back - do you want him to play on back to backs and 38min/gm. No, I didn't think so...

Having BOTH Ish Smith and Napier is cheap insurance.

Excellent point

I don't know about excellent, but both Smith & Napier are pretty good points....

Points... I get it. But maybe I've been overly negative - or overly ambivalent really - about the deals. What Tommy's done over and over already is get something for nothing that he was going to use. We got these 2 players for 2 players that they probably weren't going to keep - so effectively more than half the roster was gotten without giving up anything. That's a good thing. Works those nooks and crannies; EG worked the crooks and grannies.

Btw, I hear Napier actually has a good defensive rep. Going from IT to him should be a refreshing change.

[pcbothwel]

I thought this was interesting from Tommy Sheppard's comments on why the Zards didn't trade Bertans. Particularly interesting is what he says about how many 3pt shots to expect in the future. I suspect Jerome Robinson fits in with this vision.

Another reason why Bertans is still in Washington is that he fits perfectly into the direction they want their roster to go. Bertans has emerged as one of the best 3-point shooters in the NBA, this year shooting 42.9% on 8.4 attempts per game from long range.

Sheppard envisions Bertans running the floor with guards John Wall and Bradley Beal with Rui Hachimura carving up the midrange and their centers running to the rim.

"The shooting is the big aspect that is so exciting for us. That just opens up the floor when John Wall comes back," Sheppard said. "Fifty three-point field goal attempts a night will probably be the norm in the next two years or three years. That's where the game is going."

We need this kind of Center, we haven't had one to fit the bill since JaVale and Bryant doesn't fit the bill either but is fine as a back-up.

I've mentioned it a number of times, but Nerlens Noel is #1 on my FA board for our Bi-Annual, or Full MLE if needed.
He is a PERFECT fit for this team and Bryant.
Noel has quick hands and feet. Hyper athletic that can cause havoc defensively, switch on perimeter players, and catch lobs.
But he has a small frame, injury history, and limited skill set offensively...

He is the opposite of Bryant and why I think he would be great here. Bryant would be the starter, but Noel gets 20 MPG and either can be utilized depending on the match up.

You want to make this team dynamic, young, and dangerous...
- Draft best PG prospect with pick
- Resign Bertans
- Sign Noel and defensive specialist (RHJ or Jeremi Grant) with Exceptions

Wall
Beal
Brown
Rui
Bryant

Bench: Haliburton, Robinson, Grant, Bertans, Noel

That 10 man group is full of long, athletic, young, and skilled players.
We might lead the league in STOCKS next year with that group
Play fast and vicious

[wall_glizzy]

I've quite liked Napier for a while - don't think he's really up to starting full-time (nor does he have a lot of runway left for further development, imo), but he's just about everything I'd want from a backup. (So is Ish, for that matter). I imagine the rest of the season will be something of a tryout, and it'll be easy enough to bring just one or the other back for next year.

[nate33]

I've mentioned it a number of times, but Nerlens Noel is #1 on my FA board for our Bi-Annual, or Full MLE if needed.
He is a PERFECT fit for this team and Bryant.
Noel has quick hands and feet. Hyper athletic that can cause havoc defensively, switch on perimeter players, and catch lobs.
But he has a small frame, injury history, and limited skill set offensively...

He is the opposite of Bryant and why I think he would be great here. Bryant would be the starter, but Noel gets 20 MPG and either can be utilized depending on the match up.

You want to make this team dynamic, young, and dangerous...
- Draft best PG prospect with pick
- Resign Bertans
- Sign Noel and defensive specialist (RHJ or Jeremi Grant) with Exceptions

Wall
Beal
Brown
Rui
Bryant

Bench: Haliburton, Robinson, Grant, Bertans, Noel

That 10 man group is full of long, athletic, young, and skilled players.
We might lead the league in STOCKS next year with that group
Play fast and vicious

I like the idea of getting Noel. Only problem is that it leaves no room for Wagner. And is RHJ or Grant really any better than what Bonga will be next year?

The real problem here is that we have a bunch of rotation-caliber players or potential rotation-caliber players, but only Beal and Wall as genuine starting-caliber players. Brown might be there by next year, but Hachimura and Bryant have a long way to go defensively before they're true starting-caliber guys.

[wall_glizzy]

I like the idea of getting Noel. Only problem is that it leaves no room for Wagner. And is RHJ or Grant really any better than what Bonga will be next year?

The real problem here is that we have a bunch of rotation-caliber players or potential rotation-caliber players, but only Beal and Wall as genuine starting-caliber players. Brown might be there by next year, but Hachimura and Bryant have a long way to go defensively before they're true starting-caliber guys.

I'm a huge fan of Jerami Grant; I see the comparison, but it's far from a sure thing that Bonga will match his three-point shooting, rim protection, or slashing ability next year (or ever). That said, I believe he's an RFA this season and would be absolutely shocked if the Nuggets let him go. They gave up a first to get him last year and the fit with Jokic and an aging Millsap is just too good. (Edit: I looked and it's actually a player option, but I maintain that if necessary, the Nuggets will offer more than we have the ability to).

Absolutely agree on our roster being a pile of nickels and very few quarters right now - we'll soon face the classic fantasy basketball problem of consolidating multiple known quantities into individual, high-impact contributors.

[nate33]

FWIW, ever since the NY game on December 28th, Bonga has been consistently getting 20 minutes a night, give or take. Since then, here are his per 36 minute averages:

11.0 points
7.1 rebounds
1.6 assists
1.2 steals
0.9 blocks
1.4 turnovers
.677 2P% (on 4.8 attempts
.500 3P% (on 1.8 attempts)
.800 FT% (on 2.7 attempts)
.711 TS%
4.6 PFs

Compare that to Grant's per 36 numbers on the season:

15.7 points
5.0 rebounds
1.6 assists
0.9 steals
1.2 blocks
1.1 turnovers
.465 2P% (on 7.2 attempts)
.400 3P% (on 4.8 attempts)
.723 FT% (on 3.7 attempts)
.578 TS%
2.9 PFs


They're even in stocks. Bonga is a better rebounder and passer, and a significantly more efficient scorer, albeit on lower usage. Basically, if Bonga ups his FG and 3P attempts, even if the extra shots come at a fairly low percentage, he can match Grant in the scoring categories while being better at everything else (except fouls).

When you factor that Bonga is 20 and Grant is 26, I think I'd rather just stick with Bonga.

Sorry for going all PIF on you.