Man if I'd write what's on my mind you'd probably banned me from this forum forever. Like really? Again? Blame it on Barton? After 20 points on 17 shots (not great, not terrible) 9 rebounds, 5 assists with ONE to, second best +/- of our players? Yeah THAT is the reason we lost. Not like Garry Harris with 1-6 shooting, one assists, two TO, -17. And others who played bad. It was Will Barton, for sure.
I wasn't much of a fan of Barton previous seasons but this year? He playes his ass off! And in games when like two or three guys care about the result he is always amongs them. Then guys pass from open spots, give him ball with three seconds left on shot clock so he has to shoot it and you call it stats chasing? This is ridiculous.
Also some of you call out Barton's defense AND call MPJ good defender. Like this is absurd. MPJ, love him, wish him all the best, dude just scares me everytime he hits the floor because immediately I am like- yeah, there it is. Bad injury. But! I love his attitude. As a scorer he is willing passer if pass is the better option, he hustles for loose balls, everything great. He also EVERY game has I say at least one, but more likely three or more times having trouble defending single screen and he just doesn't know if he should stay or switch and just stays in no-mans land leaving basically two guys open. And then teammates start yelling at him or he make up for this by chasing it with nice block or rebound. He has great physicall tools to be awesome defender. Like the hustle is great, he doesn't give up. But you call him good defender after that AND bashing Barton? He IS where he is supposed to be. If he's asked to guard guy 3 inches bigger and 40 pounds heavier, yeah he will have trouble doing that. But he tries. As did Juancho or Grant when they were send to guard Drummond.
I think my post is too much long and my english getting that much worse that it might be impossible to understand me. So basically- I think Will plays with heart and passion. Like even our stricktly hustle guys as Plums or Craig had games where I felt like they just want to go home. Not with Will this year. As I said, not a big fan of him, but the heart needs to be appreciated.
Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
Moderator: THE J0KER
Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
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Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
"I never played a game sober, unfortunately" - Keon Clark
"I've never drunk alcohol socially. I've never took cocain socially. I've never smoked anything socially. I did all of this... to got **** up!" - Ozzy Osbourne
"I've never drunk alcohol socially. I've never took cocain socially. I've never smoked anything socially. I did all of this... to got **** up!" - Ozzy Osbourne
Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
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Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
Maf wrote:Man if I'd write what's on my mind you'd probably banned me from this forum forever. Like really? Again? Blame it on Barton? After 20 points on 17 shots (not great, not terrible) 9 rebounds, 5 assists with ONE to, second best +/- of our players? Yeah THAT is the reason we lost. Not like Garry Harris with 1-6 shooting, one assists, two TO, -17. And others who played bad. It was Will Barton, for sure.
I wasn't much of a fan of Barton previous seasons but this year? He playes his ass off! And in games when like two or three guys care about the result he is always amongs them. Then guys pass from open spots, give him ball with three seconds left on shot clock so he has to shoot it and you call it stats chasing? This is ridiculous.
Also some of you call out Barton's defense AND call MPJ good defender. Like this is absurd. MPJ, love him, wish him all the best, dude just scares me everytime he hits the floor because immediately I am like- yeah, there it is. Bad injury. But! I love his attitude. As a scorer he is willing passer if pass is the better option, he hustles for loose balls, everything great. He also EVERY game has I say at least one, but more likely three or more times having trouble defending single screen and he just doesn't know if he should stay or switch and just stays in no-mans land leaving basically two guys open. And then teammates start yelling at him or he make up for this by chasing it with nice block or rebound. He has great physicall tools to be awesome defender. Like the hustle is great, he doesn't give up. But you call him good defender after that AND bashing Barton? He IS where he is supposed to be. If he's asked to guard guy 3 inches bigger and 40 pounds heavier, yeah he will have trouble doing that. But he tries. As did Juancho or Grant when they were send to guard Drummond.
I think my post is too much long and my english getting that much worse that it might be impossible to understand me. So basically- I think Will plays with heart and passion. Like even our stricktly hustle guys as Plums or Craig had games where I felt like they just want to go home. Not with Will this year. As I said, not a big fan of him, but the heart needs to be appreciated.
Barton gets bashed but multiple regular posters have acknowledge his positive contributions this year.
I totally agree that Barton is playing guys much bigger than him and have consistently said I prefer him at SG, especially off the bench. Watching Hernenagomez & Grant trying to stop Drummond was rather ridiculous. And your analogy is right on when making that comparison.
I've given Barton credit, along with Millsap, for holding this team together early in the year. I still don't like his defense or his tendency to do hero ball (which sometimes works out well).
I've also said Porter's defense is still developing - the difference on defense between Barton & Porter is that Porter's defense is developing and Barton's defense is what it has always been. (Reminds me of Faried's scoring, or lack thereof. He just never improved but still made contributions.)
As long as the language stays clean and the hostility isn't too extreme, you'll always be welcome here. You've never shown a tendency towards unacceptable postings and I like the way you think, even when we disagree. I get your support for Barton.
Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
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Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
To be honest I wasn't sure how clean language would stay. Played a lot of RDR2 and drank a lot of whiskey to feel more cowboy-e while doing it. So when I started writing that It wasn't like I had prepared what I am going to express but more like- let's see where it'll take me. Seeing it today it's not as bad as I thought it could end up.
I am glad you're the first reacting because you always make discussion clean and calm. And I have huge respect for your love and loyalty to Denver Nuggets. There are some things I don't understand and some I don't agree. So, what exactly do you mean by playing hero ball? Like ok, against Detroit Barton had like three or shots I didn't like much. Like that midrange pull out in transition. But! Lot of our players are very passive on offense. And when three guys pass of position for pulling a shot someone has to take it. Unless you want to end up posetion with 24s violation. Also Will is I believe our best and most willing driver to basket (I think second most "willing" is Plumlee and don't know about you but when he drives I am like "no no no no... ok, good, you scored. Please don't do that ever again"). Jokič passing to cutting Craig is much more effective, sure, but you can't play this whole game. So it might be that Barton's sometimes wild drives are what Malone wants him to do. Or you might think something else then please explain what you mean by that.
What I diagree with is Barton's coming from bench and as a SG. It is because how our team is structured. Playing SG means even less minutes for Beasley. While I am afraid we won't see Malik next season cause new contract negotiation went south- so obviously he wants more then was offered and he is good enough to be paid elsewhere, I'd still hate to see him being glued on bench. And what with SF minutes? Well more minutes for Porter, sure. But I am not sure most of the users complaining about MPJ minutes (not directing this to you) realize kid hadn't play basketball for two years. So it is not good idea to throw 2000+ minutes season at him yet. And I don't believe giving Barton's SF minutes to Craig, Juancho or Grant would make Denver better. Well maybe you could sell me on Grant. Maybe. But if he started as SF he'd have to go to bench very early so he could sub as PF for Millsap later and... It is a lot of "ifs" and "hows" for me.
The thing is, my purpose wasn't to discuss if Will would be better at SG, coming of the bench, what he does and what he does not on defense. It is fun, sure, we can go on. Reason I started was because it is really annoying from some users that after every loss it's only Will's fault. We lost? Damn Barton. Like we would be 82-0 just if we bought him out. Or trade him for virtually anybody.
As I said, most hated players here since Anthony Carter. Even Willson Chandler didn't get that much hate and he literally didn't give a F his last year in Denver.
I am glad you're the first reacting because you always make discussion clean and calm. And I have huge respect for your love and loyalty to Denver Nuggets. There are some things I don't understand and some I don't agree. So, what exactly do you mean by playing hero ball? Like ok, against Detroit Barton had like three or shots I didn't like much. Like that midrange pull out in transition. But! Lot of our players are very passive on offense. And when three guys pass of position for pulling a shot someone has to take it. Unless you want to end up posetion with 24s violation. Also Will is I believe our best and most willing driver to basket (I think second most "willing" is Plumlee and don't know about you but when he drives I am like "no no no no... ok, good, you scored. Please don't do that ever again"). Jokič passing to cutting Craig is much more effective, sure, but you can't play this whole game. So it might be that Barton's sometimes wild drives are what Malone wants him to do. Or you might think something else then please explain what you mean by that.
What I diagree with is Barton's coming from bench and as a SG. It is because how our team is structured. Playing SG means even less minutes for Beasley. While I am afraid we won't see Malik next season cause new contract negotiation went south- so obviously he wants more then was offered and he is good enough to be paid elsewhere, I'd still hate to see him being glued on bench. And what with SF minutes? Well more minutes for Porter, sure. But I am not sure most of the users complaining about MPJ minutes (not directing this to you) realize kid hadn't play basketball for two years. So it is not good idea to throw 2000+ minutes season at him yet. And I don't believe giving Barton's SF minutes to Craig, Juancho or Grant would make Denver better. Well maybe you could sell me on Grant. Maybe. But if he started as SF he'd have to go to bench very early so he could sub as PF for Millsap later and... It is a lot of "ifs" and "hows" for me.
The thing is, my purpose wasn't to discuss if Will would be better at SG, coming of the bench, what he does and what he does not on defense. It is fun, sure, we can go on. Reason I started was because it is really annoying from some users that after every loss it's only Will's fault. We lost? Damn Barton. Like we would be 82-0 just if we bought him out. Or trade him for virtually anybody.
As I said, most hated players here since Anthony Carter. Even Willson Chandler didn't get that much hate and he literally didn't give a F his last year in Denver.
"I never played a game sober, unfortunately" - Keon Clark
"I've never drunk alcohol socially. I've never took cocain socially. I've never smoked anything socially. I did all of this... to got **** up!" - Ozzy Osbourne
"I've never drunk alcohol socially. I've never took cocain socially. I've never smoked anything socially. I did all of this... to got **** up!" - Ozzy Osbourne
Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
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Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
Maf wrote:To be honest I wasn't sure how clean language would stay. Played a lot of RDR2 and drank a lot of whiskey to feel more cowboy-e while doing it. So when I started writing that It wasn't like I had prepared what I am going to express but more like- let's see where it'll take me. Seeing it today it's not as bad as I thought it could end up.
When I respond to posts, I seldom think things out much and I tend to write too much.

Maf wrote:I am glad you're the first reacting because you always make discussion clean and calm. And I have huge respect for your love and loyalty to Denver Nuggets. There are some things I don't understand and some I don't agree. So, what exactly do you mean by playing hero ball? Like ok, against Detroit Barton had like three or shots I didn't like much. Like that midrange pull out in transition. But! Lot of our players are very passive on offense. And when three guys pass of position for pulling a shot someone has to take it. Unless you want to end up posetion with 24s violation. Also Will is I believe our best and most willing driver to basket (I think second most "willing" is Plumlee and don't know about you but when he drives I am like "no no no no... ok, good, you scored. Please don't do that ever again"). Jokič passing to cutting Craig is much more effective, sure, but you can't play this whole game. So it might be that Barton's sometimes wild drives are what Malone wants him to do. Or you might think something else then please explain what you mean by that.
Thanks for the kind words. No doubt we all agree on many things, even about the Nuggets. The Rebel, The Joker, Skywalker33 all post often and we all disagree on various topics. That's what makes discussion nice. If we all agreed on everything, this whole thing would be boring.
"Hero ball" is something others have used for many years. It is what happens when one guy decides to win the game all by himself - that's the extreme. When I use it regarding Barton is when he decides to take a very deep three (he's good at threes, but not deep ones) or when he decides to drive to the hoop and try to score with three guys waiting for him. Teammates are open but his eyes are on the hoop and you can tell he's not even considering passing the ball.
I agree with you that some of our guys just aren't aggressive enough and that just might leave Barton feeling like he has to do something.
I believe our best offense is when Jokic has the ball at the top of the key and the other four players are running the baseline and cutting to the basket and screening for each other. I think that game works all game, every game. All it takes is a small opening and Jokic gets them the ball in a spot where they can score. If one of the screeners is left open, Jokic can toss them the ball for an open shot.
Maf wrote:What I diagree with is Barton's coming from bench and as a SG. It is because how our team is structured. Playing SG means even less minutes for Beasley. While I am afraid we won't see Malik next season cause new contract negotiation went south- so obviously he wants more then was offered and he is good enough to be paid elsewhere, I'd still hate to see him being glued on bench. And what with SF minutes? Well more minutes for Porter, sure. But I am not sure most of the users complaining about MPJ minutes (not directing this to you) realize kid hadn't play basketball for two years. So it is not good idea to throw 2000+ minutes season at him yet. And I don't believe giving Barton's SF minutes to Craig, Juancho or Grant would make Denver better. Well maybe you could sell me on Grant. Maybe. But if he started as SF he'd have to go to bench very early so he could sub as PF for Millsap later and... It is a lot of "ifs" and "hows" for me.
Totally agree about Beasley's minutes but we have at least 10 guys that could get 25+ mpg on most teams in the NBA. That's just tough. Malone would never go for it, but if he gave players games off, it would spread the minutes around. As you say, there are lots of "ifs" and "hows". I said at the beginning of the year that the rotation and spreading out the minutes was going to be Malone's biggest problem.
My approach would be to look at the future and give the most minutes to the players most likely to be on a championship contender next year and after: Jokic, Grant, Porter, Barton, Beasley, Murray - with maybe Bol, Vanderbilt, Morris and wondering about Harris. That's six primary players on our current roster plus four question marks on our current roster. Players like Cancar, Craig, Hernangomez and maybe those four questions are just role players that fill in when we have injuries and take some minutes in some games.
Maf wrote:The thing is, my purpose wasn't to discuss if Will would be better at SG, coming of the bench, what he does and what he does not on defense. It is fun, sure, we can go on. Reason I started was because it is really annoying from some users that after every loss it's only Will's fault. We lost? Damn Barton. Like we would be 82-0 just if we bought him out. Or trade him for virtually anybody.
As I said, most hated players here since Anthony Carter. Even Willson Chandler didn't get that much hate and he literally didn't give a F his last year in Denver.
I just don't believe Barton fits on the Nuggets team. He's a good one-on-one player and a good shooter/scorer. I actually like the guy but I believe if he were on a team like Minnesota or Philadelphia or several others, that he might average 20+ per game. The Nuggets and Jazz are two examples where the offense is very team-ball oriented. Every team likes to say to they are team oriented, but that are levels of that.
When I saw the end of the Detroit game, I knew people would blame Barton but we lost that game based on our defense - Barton's shooting helped keep us in the game and while I would have rather had Jokic take that last shot, it was not a terrible shot for Barton. Although I'd have rather seen him take a pull up jumper about two steps earlier - he's much better at jump shots than floaters.
I surely do appreciate your view.
Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
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Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
The Rebel wrote:I have to say that even with Barton being on his best behavior this team is never going to be a contender as long as he is our scorer in the starting lineup. I am really **** tired of watching these guys build leads and than watching Barton start chasing his stats and ignoring the offense and not playing defense, it happens every time we build a lead. It happens every time we are down around 10 when he comes back in during the 4th quarter. I may be the only one that remembers how often he does it, but he has cost us several games this year, and today was just icing on the cake. I don't know where the media and reddit circle jerk started with this guy, but it is a joke, he flat out is not a winning player and should be out the door asap.
Juancho and Harris both shot like **** today, I do not know why both lost their confidence but it is hurting the team which does not seem to be helping with their confidence.
Jokic had a great game, but he cannot do it alone.
I said at the end of last season that the veterans especially Barton and to a lessor extent Plumlee need to be moved and I still believe that. We will never hit our potential when we have an idiot more worried about his stats than winning and a Center that cannot cover the perimeter or shoot off the bench.
Oh, I remember the days.
Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
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Re: Game 50: Denver Nuggets (34-15) @ Detroit Pistons (17-33) - 12:30 PM ET
NuggetsWY wrote:
I have never ever thought Barton's defense was any better than a 380 lb playground man that stands 10' or more from the basket. Sure, he makes an occasional block and looks great doing it. But his help defense is not good and his man defense is worse. His judgement is poor, especially on defense. When he's covering someone from outside, he usually ends up standing still watching their back as they head to the basket. He's often caught out of position, as he tries to find a way to make a steal or block. He leaves a great shooter open too often when he does that. Watch him throughout a game and you can see that he is not exerting great effort on defense - except on rare occasions.
Music to my ears. This is exactly how I feel about him lol