Gordon Hayward Thread

[Parliament10]

I haven't looked into it, but SWC brought up a good point the other night, Tatum has a real chance to be all nba next year, would him being eligible for the early supermax throw a wrench into it?

I thought only players with at least eight years of service (or is it 7) are eligible for supermax. Maybe it's called differently for players coming off a rookie contract. No idea.

I know about as much about the cap as Smart knows about playing halfassed.

Explained: What is an NBA supermax contract and how does it work?
By Keely Diven | May 22, 2019 5:06 PM

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/explained-what-nba-supermax-contract-and-how-does-it-work

What is a supermax contract?

Officially known as the "Designated Veteran Player Extension," this rule allows teams to re-sign qualified players to maximum five-year contracts worth up to 35 percent of the salary cap with eight percent escalation in each subsequent year.

The length of the supermax deal depends on the player's years of NBA experience and years remaining on his current contract.

* A qualified player who has completed seven or eight years of service and has two years left on his contract is eligible for a four-year supermax (keeping the player with the same team for a total of six seasons)

* A qualified player who has completed seven or eight years of service and has one year left on his contract is eligible for a five-year supermax (keeping the player with the same team for a total of six seasons)

* A qualified free agent who has completed eight or nine years of service is eligible for a five-year supermax

Furthermore, teams cannot trade a supermax player for the first year after he signs the contract.

[OBisHalJordan]

Why does Hayward almost never sit on the bench when he is out injured? Am I the only who thinks this is weird?

[zoyathedestroya]

Why does Hayward almost never sit on the bench when he is out injured? Am I the only who thinks this is weird?

He and Brown were on the bench watching the game. Or maybe just one half?

[OBisHalJordan]

Why does Hayward almost never sit on the bench when he is out injured? Am I the only who thinks this is weird?

He and Brown were on the bench watching the game. Or maybe just one half?

I saw Brown but not Hayward. Maybe I missed it. In any case, it seems that he's not on the bench a lot of the time when he's out. I am a wrong? Is this not thing?

[K For Three]

Why does Hayward almost never sit on the bench when he is out injured? Am I the only who thinks this is weird?

He and Brown were on the bench watching the game. Or maybe just one half?

Saw Hayward before the game started high fiving Tatum.

As for what happened during the game who knows, sometimes guys get treatments etc.

[zoyathedestroya]

Why does Hayward almost never sit on the bench when he is out injured? Am I the only who thinks this is weird?

He and Brown were on the bench watching the game. Or maybe just one half?

I saw Brown but not Hayward. Maybe I missed it. In any case, it seems that he's not on the bench a lot of the time when he's out. I am a wrong? Is this not thing?

Two seasons ago, he was usually not with the team while doing rehab.

Not a thing this season.

[CWitch]

I was wondering if you guys think Gordon is just a ordinary player in the league now? Also is he a bench player on this team for the rest of his contract?

[Romeiro Celtic]

There's a thread for Gordon Hayward's discussions already. Please, post there.

[Slax]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html

[zoyathedestroya]

Gordon's so ordinary that the 17+ ppg, 6+ rpg, 4+ apg on 60+% TS% he's putting up has only been done twice in Celtics history -- both by some dude named Larry Bird.

[100proof]

Gordon's so ordinary that the 17+ ppg, 6+ rpg, 4+ apg on 60+% TS% he's putting up has only been done twice in Celtics history -- both by some dude named Larry Bird.

I dont think anyone who is a celtics fan will say that Gordon is a bad player.

Redundant, yes
Cap hindering, yes

Bad player, no

[zoyathedestroya]

Gordon's so ordinary that the 17+ ppg, 6+ rpg, 4+ apg on 60+% TS% he's putting up has only been done twice in Celtics history -- both by some dude named Larry Bird.

I dont think anyone who is a celtics fan will say that Gordon is a bad player.

Redundant, yes
Cap hindering, yes

Bad player, no

Redundant right now? No. He's our only efficient scorer and playmaker from the wing position, any position really. How is someone that's making the team better whenever he's on the floor redundant?

Cap hindering right now? Maybe. Depends on whatever else the Cs + Kanter plan to do. Cs can still avoid the tax next season even if he stays unless he demands something like 40M a year.

[sam_I_am]

Gordon's so ordinary that the 17+ ppg, 6+ rpg, 4+ apg on 60+% TS% he's putting up has only been done twice in Celtics history -- both by some dude named Larry Bird.

That sound like the rationalization for Al Horford. No really....13/6 is elite and worth a max.

[zoyathedestroya]

Gordon's so ordinary that the 17+ ppg, 6+ rpg, 4+ apg on 60+% TS% he's putting up has only been done twice in Celtics history -- both by some dude named Larry Bird.

That sound like the rationalization for Al Horford. No really....13/6 is elite and worth a max.

2nd or 3rd best player on the team is worth the max yes. And we've been through this usage/role/stats discussion before. At this point, people are just being blind and stubborn.

[5InOfLouisville]

Gordo and Kemba sacrifice counting stats to empower JT/JB to get theirs and grow, which ultimately makes us a better team. You can also watch Hayward play, and he isnt explosive and flashy, but the results speak for themselves.

[Dave_From_NB]

Why does Hayward almost never sit on the bench when he is out injured? Am I the only who thinks this is weird?

I'm pretty sure Hayward was sitting between Theis and Brown in the first half.

[100proof]

Gordon's so ordinary that the 17+ ppg, 6+ rpg, 4+ apg on 60+% TS% he's putting up has only been done twice in Celtics history -- both by some dude named Larry Bird.

That sound like the rationalization for Al Horford. No really....13/6 is elite and worth a max.

2nd or 3rd best player on the team is worth the max yes. And we've been through this usage/role/stats discussion before. At this point, people are just being blind and stubborn.

he is, at best, 4th best player on the team/for future.

Kemba - better
tatum - better more important for future
Brown - better more important for future
smart - not as good, more important for future

And Hayward is not the teams best playmaker. Kemba, Wanamaker and Marcus all have a higher assist%, and Tatum is not far behind, and in the summer on Team USA Jaylen showed the ability to play that role as well (Brad just has him doing other things)

in the hockey assist, gordon is 3rd on the team at 0.4 per game, tied with Smart and behind Kemba (0.8) Tatum, Brown, Wanamaker, Theis are all at 0.3. Not a drop off at all.

Gordon is 3rd in potential assists ( behind Kemba and Smart and and a couple ahead of Tatum, Brown and Wannamaker )

AS a pick and role ball handler Hayward sports a .9 Point per possession (65th percentile)
Brown is .88
Tatum is a 1
Smart is a 1.1
Kemba is a 1.2

Hayward as a playmaker is overblown, he is statistically the 3rd highest producer on the team at this, and imo, replaceable with more of the opportunity going to the Jays to pick up that slack.

8.6% of possessions are on handoffs, at which he is in the 58th percentile finishing at .96 points per possession

He is used 6.5% of possessions on cuts, at which he is in the 77th percentile in finishing at 1.44 points per possession.

Hayward is the best on the team in isolations, (he can score from the wing against power forwards) but only 6.6% of possessions are that...so underused perhaps?

His shot is excellent though, But Hayward is no longer top 4 player on the team. Luckily, cause the Jays have improved so much. Not to take away from Hayward any either.

[MagicBagley18]

Hey guys , I was curious if anyone could provide some stats for me showing just how well Hayward is playing now compared to his best days in Utah. I tried looking and I’ve found some but I know some of you here are just better getting stats than me.

Having a friendly argument with a co-worker whose telling me how Gordon hasn’t been good this year for the Celtics and I said actually when he’s played for the most part and what we’ve asked of him he’s been great. We both admit he will never be the athletic Gordon he was in Utah but said he’s been incredibly important for us but his biggest flaws have been health and him not being aggressive enough.

Just looking for some comparisons or stats that back up how well he’s been playing lately and for the most part when he’s been healthy

[SmartWentCrazy]

Gordon's so ordinary that the 17+ ppg, 6+ rpg, 4+ apg on 60+% TS% he's putting up has only been done twice in Celtics history -- both by some dude named Larry Bird.

I dont think anyone who is a celtics fan will say that Gordon is a bad player.

Redundant, yes
Cap hindering, yes

Bad player, no

Redundant right now? No. He's our only efficient scorer and playmaker from the wing position, any position really. How is someone that's making the team better whenever he's on the floor redundant?

Cap hindering right now? Maybe. Depends on whatever else the Cs + Kanter plan to do. Cs can still avoid the tax next season even if he stays unless he demands something like 40M a year.

He’s not even close to redundant. I’m glad he’s on the team. We are worse without him. So long as his monetary demands are reasonable, I look forward to re-signing him.

But his TS% is virtually identical to Jaylen’s and both are super efficient scorers for wings in general. Kemba has also been very efficient in general, even moreso when relative to other guards.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Hey guys , I was curious if anyone could provide some stats for me showing just how well Hayward is playing now compared to his best days in Utah. I tried looking and I’ve found some but I know some of you here are just better getting stats than me.

Having a friendly argument with a co-worker whose telling me how Gordon hasn’t been good this year for the Celtics and I said actually when he’s played for the most part and what we’ve asked of him he’s been great. We both admit he will never be the athletic Gordon he was in Utah but said he’s been incredibly important for us but his biggest flaws have been health and him not being aggressive enough.

Just looking for some comparisons or stats that back up how well he’s been playing lately and for the most part when he’s been healthy

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html

Will use 16-17 as comparison point.

Utah: 21.9/5.4/3.5 on 47.1/39.8/84.4 shooting splits [59.5 TS in a league where average TS was below current levels]. 9.0% rebound rate and 18.2% assist rate. 33.4/8.2/5.3 per 100 possessions, which is important because pace in general has increased today

Boston: 17.2/6.6/4.1 on 51.4/39.3/87.2 shooting splits [ 60.5 TS which is likely slightly less impressive relative to average in today’s game]. 10.8% rebound rate and 19.2% assist rate. 25.3/9.7/6.0 per 100.

His scoring is worse. Part of this is due to role [first option in Utah, 4th option here], part of it is due to aggressiveness declining [.371 FTr vs .182 now].

His plus/minus stats have decreased from then to now, suggesting he’s gone from a top 20 to top 50 player. Part of this is again due to role, but part is also due to scoring decline.

He’s a more skilled player today than he was in Utah— his shooting splits are up in each zone save 3’s, his rebounding is better, his handle is better and his vision is better. However, his athleticism and aggression have unquestionably declined as well. Would say he’s less versatile defensively today as well, and probably a worse defender overall accordingly.

I would peg the decrease in athleticism as slightly more significant than the addition in skill and would say he’s a less impactful player today than he was at his peak in Utah.