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Trade Thread

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d-train
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#241 » by d-train » Sat Feb 8, 2020 7:35 am

In a healthy Blazers lineup, not only would Nurkic and Whiteside not play at the same time, they might not get 48 minutes to split. I can see Collins stealing some of those minutes. Collins can defend the basket with range to show hard on pick-n-roll screens.

However, I see no problem with Blazers having both Nurkic and Whiteside. I think it would be a great benefit to the team.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#242 » by Norm2953 » Sat Feb 8, 2020 8:01 am

One would think what Portland does this summer will be run by Dame before the team breaks up
for the summer.

Portland's core is Dame/CJ, Simons, Little, Collins and Nurk. The team will know in June about
the health next season with Nurk/Collins but if either player is still a problem health wise, the
team will bring back Hassan. This will be an interesting summer for Portland for if they let
Ariza go and stretch Hood (as some on the trade board have speculated), they could have some
cap space to pursue a better player than Ariza (if that player wants to come) if they also let
Hassan walk. It then would come down to whether Seattle allows NO to operate to improve the
team this summer for the Dame/CJ extensions have got to have team ownership concerned about
future FA decisions with Zach and Nurk. Zach has missed a lot of development time with this lost
season is going to be a RFA in 2021 with Nurk an UFA in 2022. This would be a good time to test
out the market for CJ with a mediocre FA market.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#243 » by BlazersBroncos » Sat Feb 8, 2020 8:11 pm

Calling Little and especially Simons part of our core but leaving Gary Trent out of the discussion is placing value on where a player was picked and now whether the player looks good on the court. Gary is of similar age and much better than either. That we keep seeing Little and Simons as the next Gerald Wallace and Lou Williams is about as outrageous as seeing Gary as nothing but fodder.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#244 » by Roy The Natural » Sat Feb 8, 2020 9:15 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:Calling Little and especially Simons part of our core but leaving Gary Trent out of the discussion is placing value on where a player was picked and now whether the player looks good on the court. Gary is of similar age and much better than either. That we keep seeing Little and Simons as the next Gerald Wallace and Lou Williams is about as outrageous as seeing Gary as nothing but fodder.


I think there is some backing to those still holding on to upside for Little and Simons though.

Simons didn't come in with an NBA ready body, much like Collins we all knew it would take some time for the guy to get stronger enough to be an effective NBA player. He's still not there yet.

Little is a rookie, and extremely raw. Despite that, he's looked better in his rookie year than Trent did and is a good.deal.more athletic.

I'm really starting to like Trent. He's probably the best of the Crabbe/Layman/Connaughton bunch, though the sample size of good play is still pretty small for him.

I don't blame fans for not viewing him as a core piece given the way Portland is constantly developing these guys as decent rotation pieces and then letting them walk.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#245 » by BlazersBroncos » Sat Feb 8, 2020 10:00 pm

Don't get me wrong, I think Simons and Little have lots of upside. I just don't think either have much more, if any, than Trent. It just feels like we act as though he was a 4 year starter at Duke with little upside. He isn't. He was drafted after his rookie season, is nearly 6'6 with a near 6'9 wingspan, 40 inch vert, 33inch standing vert. Dude has all the tools to be considered as good a prospect as both Simons and Little. Time we start treating him as such. We would be anointing Little or Simons the next GOAT if they strung together a month like Jr has.

Simons worries me because he doesn't score in the motion of our offense like Trent. If he is a guy that needs to have high usage to score, he needs to get better as scoring and quickly. His efficiency isn't anywhere close to justifying allowing him to pound the rock and ISO. He also just doesn't seem that engaged out there, like a lack of urgency. Everyone is different and Leonard basically sleepwalks, but its just something I noticed.

I would like to kick the tires on Dragan Bender. He played well in preseason and everyone knows NO loves former high draft picks.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#246 » by Norm2953 » Sun Feb 9, 2020 12:15 am

Trent Jr is still one year ahead of Simons however for one year in college under an elite coach in coach K
as opposed to Simons who basically worked out on the sidelines. Simons and Little did have a lot of
exposure on the AAU circuits for they were considered to be elite talents as opposed to Trent jr who did
have that year at Duke and presumably had in that one year, time in Duke's weight room to get stronger.
I tend to feel Simons upside is going to be higher in the long run for if he gets stronger and perhaps grows
into his body, he'll play both guard spots as opposed to Trent Jr who mostly is a SG.

Portland's young core also needs to include Jaylen Hoard who likely would be getting minutes if he were
not a 2 way player near his service limits. Portland has the option of converting his contract into a
standard contract with their open roster spot. I don't know if converting Hoard into a standard contract
player allows Portland to keep his rights as a RFA as opposed to a two way player.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#247 » by d-train » Sun Feb 9, 2020 2:43 am

Norm2953 wrote:I don't know if converting Hoard into a standard contract player allows Portland to keep his rights as a RFA as opposed to a two way player.

He is restricted as long as Blazers don't decline to offer him a QO. Basically, there has to be no demand for his services before he can become an UFA as long as he has less than 3 years of NBA experience.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#248 » by DaVoiceMaster » Sun Feb 9, 2020 3:03 am

d-train wrote:In a healthy Blazers lineup, not only would Nurkic and Whiteside not play at the same time, they might not get 48 minutes to split. I can see Collins stealing some of those minutes. Collins can defend the basket with range to show hard on pick-n-roll screens.

However, I see no problem with Blazers having both Nurkic and Whiteside. I think it would be a great benefit to the team.


I agree with most of this. I cannot imagine Nurk and Whiteside playing together. Whiteside will not leave the paint and Nurkic shouldnt leave the paint cuz neither can chase a player outside the arc. They'll split 48 minutes, which isnt bad, but will either be happy with 24 minutes.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#249 » by d-train » Sun Feb 9, 2020 3:49 am

DaVoiceMaster wrote:
d-train wrote:In a healthy Blazers lineup, not only would Nurkic and Whiteside not play at the same time, they might not get 48 minutes to split. I can see Collins stealing some of those minutes. Collins can defend the basket with range to show hard on pick-n-roll screens.

However, I see no problem with Blazers having both Nurkic and Whiteside. I think it would be a great benefit to the team.


I agree with most of this. I cannot imagine Nurk and Whiteside playing together. Whiteside will not leave the paint and Nurkic shouldnt leave the paint cuz neither can chase a player outside the arc. They'll split 48 minutes, which isnt bad, but will either be happy with 24 minutes.

Success is fun. Success on a team is even more fun. It all depends on roles being clearly defined. Every player wants to play but experienced veterans know why they are playing and why they aren't playing. They want to make their contribution to a successful team.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#250 » by Epicurus » Sun Feb 9, 2020 4:24 am

DaVoiceMaster wrote:
d-train wrote:In a healthy Blazers lineup, not only would Nurkic and Whiteside not play at the same time, they might not get 48 minutes to split. I can see Collins stealing some of those minutes. Collins can defend the basket with range to show hard on pick-n-roll screens.

However, I see no problem with Blazers having both Nurkic and Whiteside. I think it would be a great benefit to the team.


I agree with most of this. I cannot imagine Nurk and Whiteside playing together. Whiteside will not leave the paint and Nurkic shouldnt leave the paint cuz neither can chase a player outside the arc. They'll split 48 minutes, which isnt bad, but will either be happy with 24 minutes.
As opposed to the 27 minutes Nurk averages in Portland?
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#251 » by Norm2953 » Sun Feb 9, 2020 4:53 am

Hassan's reputation as a loafer is going to follow him this summer in free agency but he's going to
be 31 this summer and wonder if he's ready to settle down next to Dame if Portland offers him
the MLE. Best to offer him a 2 year deal with a team option for a third if Nurk is going to be a
problem signing a new deal. Portland could load manage both players and sit one of them down
on b2b nights.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#252 » by Matt800 » Sun Feb 9, 2020 5:14 am

DaVoiceMaster wrote:
d-train wrote:In a healthy Blazers lineup, not only would Nurkic and Whiteside not play at the same time, they might not get 48 minutes to split. I can see Collins stealing some of those minutes. Collins can defend the basket with range to show hard on pick-n-roll screens.

However, I see no problem with Blazers having both Nurkic and Whiteside. I think it would be a great benefit to the team.


I agree with most of this. I cannot imagine Nurk and Whiteside playing together. Whiteside will not leave the paint and Nurkic shouldnt leave the paint cuz neither can chase a player outside the arc. They'll split 48 minutes, which isnt bad, but will either be happy with 24 minutes.


I dont think it is realistic. Whiteside has commented about enjoying playing more minutes this season than last season.

Also it wouldnt be splitting 48 min because portland doesnt always play a 7 footer, and they also have collins. To start the year collins had about 30mpg, whiteside 25 and skal 10. So Nurkic and Whiteside would probably get about 20mpg or less with collins near 30. Maybe all 3 guys play 25 min but that would probably require Nurkic being more mobile to be able to be a pf on defense and run around more. If Carmelo comes back that further complicates it.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#253 » by GEE » Sun Feb 9, 2020 5:19 am

I can picture a High-Low offense, with Nurkic up top and Whiteside down low. It would be a defensive nightmare for opposing coaches. Of course you could also have them both setting huuuge wall screens at the top for Dame as well. Why wouldn't it work, these two together?

People should remember Olshey took a huge swing at Whiteside, BEFORE, we struck gold in Nurkic. Now that he's here, why do people want to get rid of him. Pretty sure Olshey never had plans to. When he's motivated like he's been, he's exactly what this team needs. We should be kissing his ass a little IMO, because we'd have about a dozen wins right now, without his services. Honestly look at the numbers, and it might show he's a A/S snub, performing better than Golbert. If we can get him on a contract similar to Nurkic, we will be stoked.

LOAD MANAGEMENT says: Nurkic & Whiteside at 24-28 minutes on your average night should extend the life of both players. Add Collins to the rotation for about 30 per, that leaves around 16 minutes for maybe Melo next year. This sounds pretty dominant to me for a PF/C rotation. Also, last time I saw Nurkic clips, he looked remarkably slimmer to me. It may be just wishful thinking, but I do hope it's a trend by the training staff to get all 3 of our bigs as light and lean as possible.

Overall I agree with most about the roster for next year... Looks pretty stacked to me, and people are forgetting about Hood. Kinda weak cause HE IS A BALLER! Wild guessing he's back around this time, or after next year's ASG. Get well soon Dukie!

Dame / Simon
CJ / Trent / Little
Ariza / Hood(IR) / Gabriel
Collins / Melo / Hoard / FRP
Nurkic / Whiteside / Moses

I'll go to war with that! :rock:
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#254 » by Norm2953 » Sun Feb 9, 2020 7:17 am

I really would love to see Portland to add a legit young SF to the roster. I don't know if Hoard,
Little or perhaps Trent jr will be the answer but Portland like a lot of teams needs that 3/D
player at SF with size who can handle the ball, shoot and play defense. Portland could use
a PG but if they could find that SF to play Batum's old role, they probably could live with
Trent jr and Simons as their reserve guards.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#255 » by d-train » Sun Feb 9, 2020 8:12 am

Norm2953 wrote:I really would love to see Portland to add a legit young SF to the roster. I don't know if Hoard,
Little or perhaps Trent jr will be the answer but Portland like a lot of teams needs that 3/D
player at SF with size who can handle the ball, shoot and play defense. Portland could use
a PG but if they could find that SF to play Batum's old role, they probably could live with
Trent jr and Simons as their reserve guards.

Blazers have already decided Simons and Trent are their backup guards without a ballhandler/playmaker SF. The Bazemore for Ariza trade is evidence. NO would have kept Bazemore if he wasn't satisfied that Simons could handle running the team without Lillard or CJ.

Blazers are loaded at SF. Melo will be the starter and Ariza will probably be his backup if Blazers resign him after they decline his option for next year. If we don't have Ariza next year, I'm not worried. The league is loaded with wings that defend and shoot.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#256 » by d-train » Sun Feb 9, 2020 8:34 am

It's funny how many people here have advocated for acquiring Gallo or Harris to be our team's SF, but don't believe Melo is a SF. Heck, Harkless was our SF for 3 years and he has no SF skills. Harkless has the offensive skills of a PF. Melo has a complete SF skillset.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#257 » by Roy The Natural » Sun Feb 9, 2020 10:47 am

d-train wrote:It's funny how many people here have advocated for acquiring Gallo or Harris to be our team's SF, but don't believe Melo is a SF. Heck, Harkless was our SF for 3 years and he has no SF skills. Harkless has the offensive skills of a PF. Melo has a complete SF skillset.


Melo has zero chance to guard decent opposing 3's. He's going to give up a ton of points guarding the 3 spot.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#258 » by Wizenheimer » Sun Feb 9, 2020 4:36 pm

Roy The Natural wrote:
d-train wrote:It's funny how many people here have advocated for acquiring Gallo or Harris to be our team's SF, but don't believe Melo is a SF. Heck, Harkless was our SF for 3 years and he has no SF skills. Harkless has the offensive skills of a PF. Melo has a complete SF skillset.


Melo has zero chance to guard decent opposing 3's. He's going to give up a ton of points guarding the 3 spot.


you are what you can defend and Melo can't guard most SF's in the league. He's also had trouble with quick PF's like Giannis and Siakam

not only that, his offense has been poor as well. He has about the same bad efficiency as Turner last year, but has a much higher usage rate, and less than a third of the assists. As a team Portland averages over 1.24 points/shot; Melo averages 1.10. He's 11th on the team is TS%. His turnover rate is 48% higher than his assist rate; and his assist/turnover ration is under 1.0. And as much as Melo plays bully-ball, his FG% at the rim is putrid; 13th on the team. Even his FT rate is poor. Those are all bad numbers for a player who uses as many possessions as Melo does.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#259 » by Norm2953 » Sun Feb 9, 2020 7:57 pm

It's a bit much to think Melo and Ariza at 35 make the Blazers really loaded at SF.

Nobody really knows if Hoard, Gabriel, Little, etc are the long term answer and its probably
Portland's best move this off-season to prioritize SF in both the draft and free agency.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#260 » by DaVoiceMaster » Sun Feb 9, 2020 9:22 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
Roy The Natural wrote:
d-train wrote:It's funny how many people here have advocated for acquiring Gallo or Harris to be our team's SF, but don't believe Melo is a SF. Heck, Harkless was our SF for 3 years and he has no SF skills. Harkless has the offensive skills of a PF. Melo has a complete SF skillset.


Melo has zero chance to guard decent opposing 3's. He's going to give up a ton of points guarding the 3 spot.


you are what you can defend and Melo can't guard most SF's in the league. He's also had trouble with quick PF's like Giannis and Siakam

not only that, his offense has been poor as well. He has about the same bad efficiency as Turner last year, but has a much higher usage rate, and less than a third of the assists. As a team Portland averages over 1.24 points/shot; Melo averages 1.10. He's 11th on the team is TS%. His turnover rate is 48% higher than his assist rate; and his assist/turnover ration is under 1.0. And as much as Melo plays bully-ball, his FG% at the rim is putrid; 13th on the team. Even his FT rate is poor. Those are all bad numbers for a player who uses as many possessions as Melo does.


It's been great having Melo on the team this season, but the longer the season lasts, the more obvious it becomes that Melo is not an answer for the future of this team. I'm not sure Ariza is either, but it's still early for him. They definitely need to find some answers this summer.
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