Patrick McCaw is not a NBA caliber player

[Randle McMurphy]

His stats show that he is a slightly above average defender in the NBA. Which answers the question is he a NBA caliber player - he is.

Even if he is a slightly above average defender in the NBA (which I don't believe a look at all of those stats even fully concludes but let's go with that), that in combination with his brutal offensive game still makes him a negative value player. I suppose you could argue the league is full of negative value guys (who will soon be on their way out of the league themselves) and that makes him "NBA caliber" in the strictest sense of the term, but that doesn't mean this deep team should be playing one.

He's also 10th man on a loaded championship team who was forced to play more minutes due to injury. When we had our full team back for 2-3 games his playing time dipped. Like it should.

I've heard this narrative all season, but he's actually been played as the 8th man all season when everyone is healthy (averaging 24 minutes a game which is 8th on the team). He has consistently played more minutes than RHJ (19 min), Davis (17 min), Boucher (13 min), and Thomas (11 min), all guys who have shown themselves to be vastly superior players than him because of what they can either do defensively (RHJ, Boucher), offensively (Thomas) or both (Davis). The issue here is that McCaw is really more of a 11th-12th man on a NBA roster (especially THIS NBA roster) and yet he's been played by Nurse like a rotation player for no reason that anybody can see.

[J-Roc]

Why is this thread still open? The guy is an NBA caliber player. /thread

From last week:

Patrick McCaw this season has a 0.079 WS/48, a -1.0 BPM, a 0.2 VORP, a -2.24 PIPM (431st out of 495 eligible players in the NBA), a -2.07 RPM (417th out of 474 eligible players in the NBA), and a -3.8 RAPTOR rating (14th on the Raptors and 26th worst in NBA among players with more than 600 minutes played).

Calling that "NBA caliber" seems more than a bit generous. He'll be out of the league in a few years (and more likely than not after the ill-conceived contract the Raptors gave him runs out).

Then just fix the title of the thread to say he's not very good. Looking at that list of RAPTOR and WAR for 600min played, there are a bunch of guys who you would say are not NBA caliber, but in fact are in the NBA, and perhaps won't be in a few years, but they are as of today. Garland, Barrett, Melo, Paschall.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/

[ratul]

His stats show that he is a slightly above average defender in the NBA. Which answers the question is he a NBA caliber player - he is.

Even if he is a slightly above average defender in the NBA (which I don't believe a look at all of those stats even fully concludes but let's go with that), that in combination with his brutal offensive game still makes him a negative value player. I suppose you could argue the league is full of negative value guys (who will soon be on their way out of the league themselves) and that makes him "NBA caliber" in the strictest sense of the term, but that doesn't mean this deep team should be playing one.

He's also 10th man on a loaded championship team who was forced to play more minutes due to injury. When we had our full team back for 2-3 games his playing time dipped. Like it should.

I've heard this narrative all season, but he's actually been played as the 8th man all season when everyone is healthy (averaging 24 minutes a game which is 8th on the team). He has consistently played more minutes than RHJ (19 min), Davis (17 min), Boucher (13 min), and Thomas (11 min), all guys who have shown themselves to be vastly superior players than him because of what they can either do defensively (RHJ, Boucher), offensively (Thomas) or both (Davis). The issue here is that McCaw is really more of a 11th-12th man on a NBA roster (especially THIS NBA roster) and yet he's been played by Nurse like a rotation player for no reason that anybody can see.

Nonsense

He a positive net rating and shoots 38% from three. For his spot, he is better than Thomas because Thomas can’t guard a pylon, as much as he is trying to get better.

Defense wins and he brings a lot of defensive energy to the game.

[Kevin Willis]

His stats show that he is a slightly above average defender in the NBA. Which answers the question is he a NBA caliber player - he is.

Even if he is a slightly above average defender in the NBA (which I don't believe a look at all of those stats even fully concludes but let's go with that), that in combination with his brutal offensive game still makes him a negative value player. I suppose you could argue the league is full of negative value guys (who will soon be on their way out of the league themselves) and that makes him "NBA caliber" in the strictest sense of the term, but that doesn't mean this deep team should be playing one.

He's also 10th man on a loaded championship team who was forced to play more minutes due to injury. When we had our full team back for 2-3 games his playing time dipped. Like it should.

I've heard this narrative all season, but he's actually been played as the 8th man all season when everyone is healthy (averaging 24 minutes a game which is 8th on the team). He has consistently played more minutes than RHJ (19 min), Davis (17 min), Boucher (13 min), and Thomas (11 min), all guys who have shown themselves to be vastly superior players than him because of what they can either do defensively (RHJ, Boucher), offensively (Thomas) or both (Davis). The issue here is that McCaw is really more of a 11th-12th man on a NBA roster (especially THIS NBA roster) and yet he's been played by Nurse like a rotation player for no reason that anybody can see.

His minutes are skewed because he was playing starter minutes with the injuries. If you look at his minutes with a fairly full roster they are lower. I do get your point though, he plays more than RHJ, Boucher and Thomas. Lately Davis has been playing more. So yeah he's playing 8th man minutes. It is still comparable to 8-9th men on other teams.

Well you can argue that the league is full of guys with their foot out the door. The average NBA career is only a few years so that would play to that norm. It's being picky with words but he's "NBA caliber" right now even if he's out the league in a couple of years.

[Randle McMurphy]

It's being picky with words but he's "NBA caliber" right now even if he's out the league in a couple of years.

Perhaps he's a "NBA caliber" player in the same way that guys like Chris Jeffries and Luke Jackson were for this organization, but the real point of this thread was always that McCaw shouldn't have been playing minutes for this team when far superior options were on the bench behind him. That hasn't changed.

[Ramed Nazored]

Randle McMurphy’s McCaw fetish should be the subject of intense psychoanalytic exploration.

It’s fascinating stuff.

[Randle McMurphy]

Randle McMurphy’s McCaw fetish should be the subject of intense psychoanalytic exploration.

It’s fascinating stuff.

It's not too complicated. Terence Davis needs to play to maximize both his short/long-term value and the team's overall trajectory and Nurse's obsession with McCaw has prevented that.

[mieshpal]

Can't believe the hate for McCaw. The guy understands his role and keeps the ball moving. Solid defensive player with great length.

[mieshpal]

Its because he isnt putting up numbers so people think he doesnt do anything

I think McCaw has played pretty well since he came back from that broken nose. He's been more aggressive with his shot, looked to attack the defence more off the dribble, and kept the ball moving when it's come to him. I liked what he did off the bench last night.
Before we went on that 2nd Q run I counted at least 3 open looks he generated for other players where they missed, and then they started making those shots.

It's funny how every time the team goes on a run when he's on the floor it's never about him, but if the team struggles when he's on the floor it's always about him.

[Randle McMurphy]

Its because he isnt putting up numbers so people think he doesnt do anything

No, it's because he actually doesn't do anything.

[Grew]

Its because he isnt putting up numbers so people think he doesnt do anything

No, it's because he actually doesn't do anything.

You need to chill, you're coming off like a guy who doesn't watch the games and only looks at the box score. I hope this level of ignorance isn't displayed in all 20,000 of your posts..

[kassian]

Its because he isnt putting up numbers so people think he doesnt do anything

No, it's because he actually doesn't do anything.

You need to chill, you're coming off like a guy who doesn't watch the games and only looks at the box score. I hope this level of ignorance isn't displayed in all 20,000 of your posts..

He's kind of right tho LOL. McCaw doesn't bring much to the table offensively or defensively (where he's not as good as make it out to be btw). Matt Thomas displayed more in the last game alone than McCaw has the entire season

[Double Bubble]

Randle McMurphy’s McCaw fetish should be the subject of intense psychoanalytic exploration.

It’s fascinating stuff.

It's not too complicated. Terence Davis needs to play to maximize both his short/long-term value and the team's overall trajectory and Nurse's obsession with McCaw has prevented that.

Yeah. We get it

[Grew]

No, it's because he actually doesn't do anything.

You need to chill, you're coming off like a guy who doesn't watch the games and only looks at the box score. I hope this level of ignorance isn't displayed in all 20,000 of your posts..

He's kind of right tho LOL. McCaw doesn't bring much to the table offensively or defensively (where he's not as good as make it out to be btw). Matt Thomas displayed more in the last game alone than McCaw has the entire season

Matt Thomas is a shooter, he's playing better defense than anyone expected, and I like his game a lot. But the reason McCaw plays over him is because we don't need another scorer when the team is healthy. This is why TD got the start last game, we had no norm and no kyle, so we need the scoring from TD and Matt. We just don't need those guys playing minutes over Kyle, fred and Norm. They are champions and Nick Nurse trusts them to be our offense from that position. When we are healthy there just aren't that many shots for TD or Matt Thomas. Pat McCaw is taller, longer, can play more positions, makes less defensive mistakes and he doesn't take shots away from the guys Nick wants getting the bulk of our shots. I love TD but he puts up a 3 in someone's face almost every time he touches the ball, Matt Thomas is great but he makes some defensive mistakes, and although he tries, he has trouble with bigger or quicker players. If you can't understand why McCaw is playing at this point, you need to use your brain a little bit more. 14 game win streak and our offense hasn't really struggled all season even with McCaw playing, this hate he is receiving is coming from a place of ignorance at this point.

[Grew]

Just saying "pat does nothing" is an ignorant statement...

[RapsFanInVA]

We need 100+ pages on McCaw by season's end to return to vintage Raptors RealGM. He's a flawed, approximately replacement level backup guard who won't be in the playoff rotation unless there are injuries.

[Ramed Nazored]

We need 100+ pages on McCaw by season's end to return to vintage Raptors RealGM. He's a flawed, approximately replacement level backup guard who won't be in the playoff rotation unless there are injuries.

Don't worry, Ken Kessey's brainchild's got you covered.

[2019nbachamps]

We need 100+ pages on McCaw by season's end to return to vintage Raptors RealGM. He's a flawed, approximately replacement level backup guard who won't be in the playoff rotation unless there are injuries.

Yes he will be in the playoff rotation. Nurse is that obsessed with him. RHJ, Thomas, Boucher won't play much. My huge fear is TD won't play much either.

[alienchild]

Randle McMurphy’s McCaw fetish should be the subject of intense psychoanalytic exploration.

It’s fascinating stuff.

Do psychoanalyst's offer group rates?

[Ramed Nazored]

Randle McMurphy’s McCaw fetish should be the subject of intense psychoanalytic exploration.

It’s fascinating stuff.

Do psychoanalyst's offer group rates?

I’m sure we could find one willing to accommodate a crowd.