Game 53: Cleveland Cavaliers (13-39) vs. Los Angeles Clippers (36-16) - 7:30 PM ET

[Stillwater]

^ I mean if they really want to stick with these guys development they almost have to acquire some sort of high iq playmaker that can score at a high level with or without the ball in his hands that is not a guard...and yes is a solid fundamentals defensive player.
those are few and far between when picking 18 or 19 yr olds in the high lottery. It is a major gamble so I am inclined to think the next pick barring a pick in the top 3 will have to be a 2nd or 3rd year college prospect that is a proven high floor defender with excellent passing skills and the ability to score on ball and off ball.
Maybe if they can swing a draft day trade to get another late first they will have more options

[JonFromVA]

^ I mean if they really want to stick with these guys development they almost have to acquire some sort of high iq playmaker that can score at a high level with or without the ball in his hands that is not a guard...and yes is a solid fundamentals defensive player.
those are few and far between when picking 18 or 19 yr olds in the high lottery. It is a major gamble so I am inclined to think the next pick barring a pick in the top 3 will have to be a 2nd or 3rd year college prospect that is a proven high floor defender with excellent passing skills and the ability to score on ball and off ball.
Maybe if they can swing a draft day trade to get another late first they will have more options

If they can't teach these guys to defend at least to the level they can score more points then they give up with some kind of a post presence (aka Drummond), then they will have no choice but to break things up.

But step one was to at least try to provide some kind of post-presence.

In theory. we have plenty of guys who can handle the ball and pass the ball and if they can be taught to do so within a system we shouldn't need a high level playmaker.

So, all signs point to us drafting a SF/wing, but we'd have to get pretty lucky to hit on a single player that can cure all our problems. That either has to come from those other players, or we'll need to move players.

Tricky business, though, for Kobe Altman and John Beilein who will be on the streets if Gilbert isn't convinced he's seeing sufficient progress.

[Stillwater]

^ I mean if they really want to stick with these guys development they almost have to acquire some sort of high iq playmaker that can score at a high level with or without the ball in his hands that is not a guard...and yes is a solid fundamentals defensive player.
those are few and far between when picking 18 or 19 yr olds in the high lottery. It is a major gamble so I am inclined to think the next pick barring a pick in the top 3 will have to be a 2nd or 3rd year college prospect that is a proven high floor defender with excellent passing skills and the ability to score on ball and off ball.
Maybe if they can swing a draft day trade to get another late first they will have more options

If they can't teach these guys to defend at least to the level they can score more points then they give up with some kind of a post presence (aka Drummond), then they will have no choice but to break things up.

But step one was to at least try to provide some kind of post-presence.

In theory. we have plenty of guys who can handle the ball and pass the ball and if they can be taught to do so within a system we shouldn't need a high level playmaker.

So, all signs point to us drafting a SF/wing, but we'd have to get pretty lucky to hit on a single player that can cure all our problems. That either has to come from those other players, or we'll need to move players.

Tricky business, though, for Kobe Altman and John Beilein who will be on the streets if Gilbert isn't convinced he's seeing sufficient progress.

the key is they really are barely to 1st base on this rebuild and not even sure if they have hit on anyone yet. theoretically all of them making the long term rebuild roster is very very slim.
The way I look at it, if they just want to fast forward to being a mediocre roster and play the FA market that can maybe push for 7 or 8 seeds yr in and out at best than they can try to go after a more proven playmaker from the forward position this summer in this draft or trade for one rather than picking for high upside like they have in the last 2 sans the high floor Windler.
Or they can take another ball dominant prospect like most high lottery high usage picks that gets buckets but needs to be taught defense and learn to make life easier by scoring without the ball despite being used to always scoring with it.

[JonFromVA]

^ I mean if they really want to stick with these guys development they almost have to acquire some sort of high iq playmaker that can score at a high level with or without the ball in his hands that is not a guard...and yes is a solid fundamentals defensive player.
those are few and far between when picking 18 or 19 yr olds in the high lottery. It is a major gamble so I am inclined to think the next pick barring a pick in the top 3 will have to be a 2nd or 3rd year college prospect that is a proven high floor defender with excellent passing skills and the ability to score on ball and off ball.
Maybe if they can swing a draft day trade to get another late first they will have more options

If they can't teach these guys to defend at least to the level they can score more points then they give up with some kind of a post presence (aka Drummond), then they will have no choice but to break things up.

But step one was to at least try to provide some kind of post-presence.

In theory. we have plenty of guys who can handle the ball and pass the ball and if they can be taught to do so within a system we shouldn't need a high level playmaker.

So, all signs point to us drafting a SF/wing, but we'd have to get pretty lucky to hit on a single player that can cure all our problems. That either has to come from those other players, or we'll need to move players.

Tricky business, though, for Kobe Altman and John Beilein who will be on the streets if Gilbert isn't convinced he's seeing sufficient progress.

the key is they really are barely to 1st base on this rebuild and not even sure if they have hit on anyone yet. theoretically all of them making the long term rebuild roster is very very slim.
The way I look at it, if they just want to fast forward to being a mediocre roster and play the FA market that can maybe push for 7 or 8 seeds yr in and out at best than they can try to go after a more proven playmaker from the forward position this summer in this draft or trade for one rather than picking for high upside like they have in the last 2 sans the high floor Windler.
Or they can take another ball dominant prospect like most high lottery high usage picks that gets buckets but needs to be taught defense and learn to make life easier by scoring without the ball despite being used to always scoring with it.

Or maybe they're sitting on 3rd after grabbing Drummond and just need a final push from the draft?

That may be what they're hoping, anyway.

I mean, we've added a ton of kids. How much talent we've added is tbd ...

[Stillwater]

If they can't teach these guys to defend at least to the level they can score more points then they give up with some kind of a post presence (aka Drummond), then they will have no choice but to break things up.

But step one was to at least try to provide some kind of post-presence.

In theory. we have plenty of guys who can handle the ball and pass the ball and if they can be taught to do so within a system we shouldn't need a high level playmaker.

So, all signs point to us drafting a SF/wing, but we'd have to get pretty lucky to hit on a single player that can cure all our problems. That either has to come from those other players, or we'll need to move players.

Tricky business, though, for Kobe Altman and John Beilein who will be on the streets if Gilbert isn't convinced he's seeing sufficient progress.

the key is they really are barely to 1st base on this rebuild and not even sure if they have hit on anyone yet. theoretically all of them making the long term rebuild roster is very very slim.
The way I look at it, if they just want to fast forward to being a mediocre roster and play the FA market that can maybe push for 7 or 8 seeds yr in and out at best than they can try to go after a more proven playmaker from the forward position this summer in this draft or trade for one rather than picking for high upside like they have in the last 2 sans the high floor Windler.
Or they can take another ball dominant prospect like most high lottery high usage picks that gets buckets but needs to be taught defense and learn to make life easier by scoring without the ball despite being used to always scoring with it.

Or maybe they're sitting on 3rd after grabbing Drummond and just need a final push from the draft?

That may be what they're hoping, anyway.

I mean, we've added a ton of kids. How much talent we've added is tbd ...

this team as constructed has no legit first option
Short of Edwards or maybe somebody similar one more lottery pick ain't enough by any means to make them good.

[JonFromVA]

the key is they really are barely to 1st base on this rebuild and not even sure if they have hit on anyone yet. theoretically all of them making the long term rebuild roster is very very slim.
The way I look at it, if they just want to fast forward to being a mediocre roster and play the FA market that can maybe push for 7 or 8 seeds yr in and out at best than they can try to go after a more proven playmaker from the forward position this summer in this draft or trade for one rather than picking for high upside like they have in the last 2 sans the high floor Windler.
Or they can take another ball dominant prospect like most high lottery high usage picks that gets buckets but needs to be taught defense and learn to make life easier by scoring without the ball despite being used to always scoring with it.

Or maybe they're sitting on 3rd after grabbing Drummond and just need a final push from the draft?

That may be what they're hoping, anyway.

I mean, we've added a ton of kids. How much talent we've added is tbd ...

this team as constructed has no legit first option
Short of Edwards or maybe somebody similar one more lottery pick ain't enough by any means to make them good.

We have 3 guys who can create a shot for themselves ... any of them might evolve in to a first option ... or potentially none of them will.

But being good doesn't take all that much .... players who will play hard, improve, do what's asked and have enough talent to fill a role.

Not gonna happen if they've turned out their coach as some in the media claim.

[Stillwater]

Or maybe they're sitting on 3rd after grabbing Drummond and just need a final push from the draft?

That may be what they're hoping, anyway.

I mean, we've added a ton of kids. How much talent we've added is tbd ...

this team as constructed has no legit first option
Short of Edwards or maybe somebody similar one more lottery pick ain't enough by any means to make them good.

We have 3 guys who can create a shot for themselves ... any of them might evolve in to a first option ... or potentially none of them will.

But being good doesn't take all that much .... players who will play hard, improve, do what's asked and have enough talent to fill a role.

Not gonna happen if they've turned out their coach as some in the media claim.

Tuning out any coach is usually veterans at the pro level esp a coach with a history of teaching and coaching young players who need it.
Whenever you go rebuild you usually lose all your really good vets to fa but obviously the Cavs are in a unique situation.
I don't envy Beilein one bit.
He has clearly had to change his coaching style and probably hasn't had a good night's sleep all season.
The 3 being DG, Collin and KPJ are going to be rotation level players somewhere but none of them without the reps continuous improvement to back the reps and burning dedication for the rest of the season are going to become a legit 1st option and even then probably not esp on a roster with now 2 former all star front court players barking orders and demanding touches.
They should give the reigns to DG and see if he can take over as a floor general. I personally think he isn't capable but we need to know going into this next draft otherwise they could theoretically pass on a bpa that's a pg because they have 2 combo guards and they are trying to push for the 8th seed next season or some other cockamamie bs

[JonFromVA]

this team as constructed has no legit first option
Short of Edwards or maybe somebody similar one more lottery pick ain't enough by any means to make them good.

We have 3 guys who can create a shot for themselves ... any of them might evolve in to a first option ... or potentially none of them will.

But being good doesn't take all that much .... players who will play hard, improve, do what's asked and have enough talent to fill a role.

Not gonna happen if they've turned out their coach as some in the media claim.

Tuning out any coach is usually veterans at the pro level esp a coach with a history of teaching and coaching young players who need it.
Whenever you go rebuild you usually lose all your really good vets to fa but obviously the Cavs are in a unique situation.
I don't envy Beilein one bit.
He has clearly had to change his coaching style and probably hasn't had a good night's sleep all season.
The 3 being DG, Collin and KPJ are going to be rotation level players somewhere but none of them without the reps continuous improvement to back the reps and burning dedication for the rest of the season are going to become a legit 1st option and even then probably not esp on a roster with now 2 former all star front court players barking orders and demanding touches.
They should give the reigns to DG and see if he can take over as a floor general. I personally think he isn't capable but we need to know going into this next draft otherwise they could theoretically pass on a bpa that's a pg because they have 2 combo guards and they are trying to push for the 8th seed next season or some other cockamamie bs

Unless Garland catches his second wind at the All-Star break or certain plays just become easier as the team adjusts to Drummond, I don't think we'll know much new going in to the draft.

We haven't even gotten Dean Wade enough reps to know if he has a shot to make it in the league let alone step-in as a viable replacement for Kevin if he still wants to be traded.

But from what we're told, the FO was already sold on DG, they love KPJ too, they've been liking what they've been seeing from Collin lately as well, and can't wait to see Windler.

We'll have to see how things shakeout with our front-court, but I'm still thinking they will prioritize an athletic wing. If Drummond is happy, we probably don't need a big like Wiseman. We could still do it based on how the draft goes, but we've seemingly made drafting a C and perhaps even a PF (if Kevin is happier) a much lower priority.

In NBADraft.net's top 7, there are 3 prospects who are 6'8: and taller (Ball, Toppin, and Avdja) and of course Edwards is 6'5". Ball is a lightweight, though, and he'd likely just get pushed around like our other combo guards if we tried to play all 3. Hopefully we avoid him, but there could be some temptation.

[Stillwater]

Toppin is an interesting option to replace KLove long-term if sitting at 7,8,9,10. Don't see him as bpa any sooner though as that's relative to his inflated stats in the conference much in the same way Bennett had inflated stats in the mountain west not a gamble worth taking in top 6.He's sort of the versatile strong safety kyle dugger of the NBA draft that could persuade them though.
I agree a 3/4 defender that can pass and is above avg athlete makes sense to fill a need but your talking Achiuwa or the disappointing Jaden Mcdaniels and neither are worth more than maybe 9 or 10th and it's a failed draft at that point. I would draft 2nd yr prospects Vassell or Agbaji at 9 or 10 as solid 2/3 wings are decent off ball and on ball defenders and high level above the rim athletes that can shoot 3s before I took Achiuwa for example

[jbk1234]

this team as constructed has no legit first option
Short of Edwards or maybe somebody similar one more lottery pick ain't enough by any means to make them good.

We have 3 guys who can create a shot for themselves ... any of them might evolve in to a first option ... or potentially none of them will.

But being good doesn't take all that much .... players who will play hard, improve, do what's asked and have enough talent to fill a role.

Not gonna happen if they've turned out their coach as some in the media claim.

Tuning out any coach is usually veterans at the pro level esp a coach with a history of teaching and coaching young players who need it.
Whenever you go rebuild you usually lose all your really good vets to fa but obviously the Cavs are in a unique situation.
I don't envy Beilein one bit.
He has clearly had to change his coaching style and probably hasn't had a good night's sleep all season.
The 3 being DG, Collin and KPJ are going to be rotation level players somewhere but none of them without the reps continuous improvement to back the reps and burning dedication for the rest of the season are going to become a legit 1st option and even then probably not esp on a roster with now 2 former all star front court players barking orders and demanding touches.
They should give the reigns to DG and see if he can take over as a floor general. I personally think he isn't capable but we need to know going into this next draft otherwise they could theoretically pass on a bpa that's a pg because they have 2 combo guards and they are trying to push for the 8th seed next season or some other cockamamie bs

I think an enough-of-this-nonsense coach might be at least part of the answer tbh.

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[JonFromVA]

We have 3 guys who can create a shot for themselves ... any of them might evolve in to a first option ... or potentially none of them will.

But being good doesn't take all that much .... players who will play hard, improve, do what's asked and have enough talent to fill a role.

Not gonna happen if they've turned out their coach as some in the media claim.

Tuning out any coach is usually veterans at the pro level esp a coach with a history of teaching and coaching young players who need it.
Whenever you go rebuild you usually lose all your really good vets to fa but obviously the Cavs are in a unique situation.
I don't envy Beilein one bit.
He has clearly had to change his coaching style and probably hasn't had a good night's sleep all season.
The 3 being DG, Collin and KPJ are going to be rotation level players somewhere but none of them without the reps continuous improvement to back the reps and burning dedication for the rest of the season are going to become a legit 1st option and even then probably not esp on a roster with now 2 former all star front court players barking orders and demanding touches.
They should give the reigns to DG and see if he can take over as a floor general. I personally think he isn't capable but we need to know going into this next draft otherwise they could theoretically pass on a bpa that's a pg because they have 2 combo guards and they are trying to push for the 8th seed next season or some other cockamamie bs

I think an enough-of-this-nonsense coach might be at least part of the answer tbh.

The play the kids mandate tends to limit what a coach can do.

Chicago has a strict coach, now in his second season, and he's got their team defense up to 14th in the league this season; but Coby White hasn't started a single game for them this season.

Kris Dunn who has one NBA level skill (defense) is getting the start at PG for them over the 7th pick in the draft.

[jbk1234]

Tuning out any coach is usually veterans at the pro level esp a coach with a history of teaching and coaching young players who need it.
Whenever you go rebuild you usually lose all your really good vets to fa but obviously the Cavs are in a unique situation.
I don't envy Beilein one bit.
He has clearly had to change his coaching style and probably hasn't had a good night's sleep all season.
The 3 being DG, Collin and KPJ are going to be rotation level players somewhere but none of them without the reps continuous improvement to back the reps and burning dedication for the rest of the season are going to become a legit 1st option and even then probably not esp on a roster with now 2 former all star front court players barking orders and demanding touches.
They should give the reigns to DG and see if he can take over as a floor general. I personally think he isn't capable but we need to know going into this next draft otherwise they could theoretically pass on a bpa that's a pg because they have 2 combo guards and they are trying to push for the 8th seed next season or some other cockamamie bs

I think an enough-of-this-nonsense coach might be at least part of the answer tbh.

The play the kids mandate tends to limit what a coach can do.

Chicago has a strict coach, now in his second season, and he's got their team defense up to 14th in the league this season; but Coby White hasn't started a single game for them this season.

Kris Dunn who has one NBA level skill (defense) is getting the start at PG for them over the 7th pick in the draft.

Coby White isn't that good. If he was, he'd be starting over Dunn. Part of the problem is the Cavs don't have a clearly better option behind either Garland or Sexton. Delly is a fringe NBA player. Clarkson and Knight both sucked defensively and are gone now. I'd like to sign a Nwaba type and maybe a journeyman who is at least a competent PG and passable defender.

[JonFromVA]

I think an enough-of-this-nonsense coach might be at least part of the answer tbh.

The play the kids mandate tends to limit what a coach can do.

Chicago has a strict coach, now in his second season, and he's got their team defense up to 14th in the league this season; but Coby White hasn't started a single game for them this season.

Kris Dunn who has one NBA level skill (defense) is getting the start at PG for them over the 7th pick in the draft.

Coby White isn't that good. If he was, he'd be starting over Dunn. Part of the problem is the Cavs don't have a clearly better option behind either Garland or Sexton. Delly is a fringe NBA player. Clarkson and Knight both sucked defensively and are gone now. I'd like to sign a Nwaba type and maybe a journeyman who is at least a competent PG and passable defender.

Oh, I think that's intentional. The FO wants those minutes invested in the kids, and the last HC who wouldn't listen was fired after 6 games.

[jbk1234]

The play the kids mandate tends to limit what a coach can do.

Chicago has a strict coach, now in his second season, and he's got their team defense up to 14th in the league this season; but Coby White hasn't started a single game for them this season.

Kris Dunn who has one NBA level skill (defense) is getting the start at PG for them over the 7th pick in the draft.

Coby White isn't that good. If he was, he'd be starting over Dunn. Part of the problem is the Cavs don't have a clearly better option behind either Garland or Sexton. Delly is a fringe NBA player. Clarkson and Knight both sucked defensively and are gone now. I'd like to sign a Nwaba type and maybe a journeyman who is at least a competent PG and passable defender.

Oh, I think that's intentional. The FO wants those minutes invested in the kids, and the last HC who wouldn't listen was fired after 6 games.

I mean those were six straight losses and Sexton was really the only young guy on the roster. I also think there was an issue with guys like JR and G. Hill going from playing on a contending team to an awful one that quickly. It would be nice if we could bring in a couple of replacement level guys who were decent defenders so that a coach who felt he needed to sit folks down could without having things go even worse.

[JonFromVA]

Coby White isn't that good. If he was, he'd be starting over Dunn. Part of the problem is the Cavs don't have a clearly better option behind either Garland or Sexton. Delly is a fringe NBA player. Clarkson and Knight both sucked defensively and are gone now. I'd like to sign a Nwaba type and maybe a journeyman who is at least a competent PG and passable defender.

Oh, I think that's intentional. The FO wants those minutes invested in the kids, and the last HC who wouldn't listen was fired after 6 games.

I mean those were six straight losses and Sexton was really the only young guy on the roster. I also think there was an issue with guys like JR and G. Hill going from playing on a contending team to an awful one that quickly. It would be nice if we could bring in a couple of replacement level guys who were decent defenders so that a coach who felt he needed to sit folks down could without having things go even worse.

In theory Exum and Delly should have been those guys.

Exum, Knight, Clarkson, and Delly have started a combined ONE game this season.

The starting lineup is locked in stone by design ...only an injury or another rest game for Garland will seemingly change anything.