Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I]

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Who are your top 3 bets for ROTY if Zion sits out season? (RESET)

Brandon Clarke
30
7%
PJ Washington
12
3%
Kendrick Nunn
68
17%
Ja Morant
161
40%
Darius Garland
3
1%
Coby White
11
3%
Rui Hachimura
13
3%
RJ Barrett
40
10%
De’Andre Hunter
8
2%
Tyler Herro
59
15%
 
Total votes: 405

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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2161 » by NO-KG-AI » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:04 am

MemphisX wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:I’m ok with rewarding consistent play and the toughness of leading a team all season long as a rookie. Props to Ja, he’d be a deserving ROTY

But Zion is a substantially more dominant player.


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Not really


Ya really.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2162 » by Whole Truth » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:45 am

MemphisX wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:I’m ok with rewarding consistent play and the toughness of leading a team all season long as a rookie. Props to Ja, he’d be a deserving ROTY

But Zion is a substantially more dominant player.


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Not really


Seen & unseen.

Zion like Young has a 30% usage rate to Morants 25%, both do "look" more dominant. It's more than likely if Morant had a higher usage rate he'd look more dominant too but it would most likely work against his team game & winning. Reason Memphis have the 8th seed in the West with a roster expected to finish last & Young, not so much in the East.

Isaiah Thomas said it on the jump, I believe it was. He said, In todays NBA, if he were to take 30 shots a night, his game would be more dominant too but it was his job to get his teammates engaged & involved. Morant's control over the game & leadership. is a dominance, unseen. Where Zion is a clear physical force to anyone watching. How someone would weight the 2, IDK. What I can make claim to, is that Morant seems to be doing more with less, as I mentioned recently. He's a drive first PG, with less than ideal spacing around him, 160lbs soaking wet that has a team expected to finish last, sitting 8th seed.

Hawk fans making claim that his teammates are better than Youngs, is a testament to that unseen dominance.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2163 » by kan_t » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:54 am

Young gun 6 wrote:
kan_t wrote:If the Pelicans are in the playoff, I don't see how Zion doesn't win it. You could say he doesn't play enough games but it would not matter especially it means that the Pelicans pull the Grizzlies out of the playoff.


Why? Zion has more support on his roster than Ja does and Pels have the easiest schedule in the league remaining...

Of the 45 games that Zion missed Pels played 28 teams over .500 By absolute far the hardest schedule in the league, so it wouldn't be some miracle if they make playoffs from here.

If Zion plays the maximum of 37 games at the current stage, only 13/37 would be against teams with .500 or better records.

They had the hardest schedule in the league before Zion played and the easiest in the league for the remainder of the season since he returned, along with still having the easiest schedule of any team to come.

Not really fair Zion misses the hardest 40 games and then is rewarded for "taking them" to playoffs when they have the easiest schedule in the league left..

If the team makes playoffs it's a combination of having Zion, having the easiest schedule remaining of every team and the efforts of a very very solid roster of Zion, Ingram, Jrue, Favors, Ball, Redick, Hart, Hayes etc.

They really should make playoffs from here looking at their remaining schedule compared to Portland and Memphis.

If Ja can actually keep Memphis in the #8 seed, i think it should be a unanimous ROTY campaign having the toughest schedule in the league from here.

Why? Because no one says it's a fair race. You see the hype Zion gets and he's in fact also being excellent. You honestly think that he wouldn't get all the credits if the Pelicans get into the playoff?

Ja should win and we don't need to overthink all the strength of schedule or leadership, etc. The game played difference is significant enough to make the case closed. But he should win doesn't mean that he would win. If the Pelicans get in the playoff over Grizzlies, Zion would win.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2164 » by Dacost » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:23 pm

I just can't believe people still want to give Zion the award even when JA has been playing at an all star lvl.

This is probably the same people who voted for taco Fall and Caruso in the All star game.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2165 » by paulbball » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:07 pm

Dacost wrote:I just can't believe people still want to give Zion the award even when JA has been playing at an all star lvl.

This is probably the same people who voted for taco Fall and Caruso in the All star game.


Let's not equate the distance between Zion and Morant with the distance between Caruso and a real all-star.

There is no argument that Zion is playing at a higher level than Morant. Morant's only case right now is based on 40 more games.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2166 » by The_Brecht » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:05 pm

People really claiming Zion could or even should win ROTY?
Are they really going to ignore a guy who's been playing at an all star level?
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2167 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:20 pm

If Zion keeps up this pace, I don't see how anyone can make the argument that he hasn't been the best rookie, hell if he keeps this up he has the case for one of the best rookie seasons ever for a teenager.

But to me the standard has been set with Brogdon over Embiid. Embiid was dominant and lost to an average season by Brogdon. Zion will end up with similar amount of games as Embiid had. Then you factor in Ja is having an even better season than Brogdon had, I don't see any way Zion wins.

But yes it's pretty clear Zion in his small amount of games has been the best rookie.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2168 » by Chanel Bomber » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:05 pm

The_Brecht wrote:People really claiming Zion could or even should win ROTY?
Are they really going to ignore a guy who's been playing at an all star level?

Zion is too, and at a higher level.

No one is questioning how good Morant's been, the question is really how much better than Ja does Zion need to be to make up for the 40 missed games.

Closing a debate before having all the information (eg the 82 games) for me is a sign of narrow-mindedness. There's no reason to be attached to any sort of certainty at this stage.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2169 » by clyde21 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:42 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:If Zion keeps up this pace, I don't see how anyone can make the argument that he hasn't been the best rookie, hell if he keeps this up he has the case for one of the best rookie seasons ever for a teenager.

But to me the standard has been set with Brogdon over Embiid. Embiid was dominant and lost to an average season by Brogdon. Zion will end up with similar amount of games as Embiid had. Then you factor in Ja is having an even better season than Brogdon had, I don't see any way Zion wins.

But yes it's pretty clear Zion in his small amount of games has been the best rookie.


just because a bad precedent was set doesn't mean we have to repeat it

again, we're not talking about MVP here where amount of games actually matters because it's overall value to a team, it's more of a who's more impressive award

again not a dig against Ja, he would be the ROTY most years, but it's we're talking about a special player here. if he keeps posting these #s across 30+ games it should be his.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2170 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:45 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:If Zion keeps up this pace, I don't see how anyone can make the argument that he hasn't been the best rookie, hell if he keeps this up he has the case for one of the best rookie seasons ever for a teenager.

But to me the standard has been set with Brogdon over Embiid. Embiid was dominant and lost to an average season by Brogdon. Zion will end up with similar amount of games as Embiid had. Then you factor in Ja is having an even better season than Brogdon had, I don't see any way Zion wins.

But yes it's pretty clear Zion in his small amount of games has been the best rookie.


just because a bad precedent was set doesn't mean we have to repeat it

again, we're not talking about MVP here where amount of games actually matters because it's overall value to a team, it's more of a who's more impressive award

again not a dig against Ja, he would be the ROTY most years, but it's we're talking about a special player here. if he keeps posting these #s across 30+ games it should be his.


I think it all comes down to if the Pels make the playoffs or not. If the Pels and Zion make the playoffs and knock out Ja and Memphis, then I think Zion wins.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2171 » by J___Av » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:56 pm

Dacost wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
PockyCandy wrote:
So let's play a hypothetical game.

Rudy Gobert plays 30 games, and is Bill Russell-level dominant in those 30 games.

On the other hand, Draymond Green isn't quite as earth-shatteringly good, but he plays 75 games.

By your logic, you would go with Rudy Gobert as your defensive player of the year? Since you don't seem to value sample size as much as I do, I want to see if you're at least consistent with your criteria.


yes, this isn't the MVP where # of games matters, this is the most impressive at X...as long as I have a sufficient sample size (unless Zion gets hurt again we will) and he's the best rook on the court imma give it him...we're not talking about a normal rook here.

Even if this is the case JA has looked better than Zion.



This is just flat out wrong. Ja has been amazing this year, but there is no question Zion has been better. Zion shouldn't win ROY, but he is the clear cut best rookie this year.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2172 » by clyde21 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:09 pm

Rui last night: 20/4/3/2/2

Coby: 14/5/7/4
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2173 » by zimpy27 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:16 am

clyde21 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:If Zion keeps up this pace, I don't see how anyone can make the argument that he hasn't been the best rookie, hell if he keeps this up he has the case for one of the best rookie seasons ever for a teenager.

But to me the standard has been set with Brogdon over Embiid. Embiid was dominant and lost to an average season by Brogdon. Zion will end up with similar amount of games as Embiid had. Then you factor in Ja is having an even better season than Brogdon had, I don't see any way Zion wins.

But yes it's pretty clear Zion in his small amount of games has been the best rookie.


just because a bad precedent was set doesn't mean we have to repeat it

again, we're not talking about MVP here where amount of games actually matters because it's overall value to a team, it's more of a who's more impressive award

again not a dig against Ja, he would be the ROTY most years, but it's we're talking about a special player here. if he keeps posting these #s across 30+ games it should be his.


It's an interesting concept in terms of its implications on players that are injured in their rookie year coming back to play earlier (eg Simmons).
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2174 » by NO-KG-AI » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:57 am

ROY is one of the worst, least predictive, and most meaningless awards, it was straight cringeworthy with how much emphasis some people put on it, like when Donovan Mitchell was wearing the shirts for it and stuff.

Like I said, Ja is fantastic, going to be a great player for a long time, he's just not the type of prospect that Zion is, I dunno why that makes people so angry.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2175 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:22 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:Like I said, Ja is fantastic, going to be a great player for a long time, he's just not the type of prospect that Zion is, I dunno why that makes people so angry.


yeah I don't get the angst either. Hawks fans couldn't even enjoy Trae last year because they got so hung up in him winning over Luka.

I'm of the opinion that unless he's spectacular over the closing stretch and only misses a handful of games that I would give it to Ja who has been great as well and for much longer.

But I won't be mad if it goes to Zion. Voters get to decide for themselves what criteria they deem important.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2176 » by KingDavid » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:30 am

Voters are going to give it to ja no matter what Zion does. He's missed tooany games. He would need an unreal stretch of basketball to close the season, I don't see that happening and in the grand scheme, it doesn't matter. We all know Zion is the better prospect and would have easily won had he not gotten hurt.

Nothing against ja of course, he's fkn brutal.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2177 » by NO-KG-AI » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:37 am

I think it's different for Embiid because if I recall, he missed the end of the season as opposed to the beginning, right? Voters have an out of sight, out of mind attitude, and if Zion is this dominant all the way through the rest of the year, and we snag a playoff spot, he's probably going to steal it, whether we agree or not.

I'd give it to Ja, like I said though. I think in a league of resting, load management, etc, there is osmething to be said for guys that are there for their team every night, and Zion wasn't this year.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2178 » by clyde21 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:53 am

Cam: 16/4/2/1

Kevin Porter: 18/4/3/1
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2179 » by Young gun 6 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:21 am

Ja 20/5/9/1

Clarke 27/6/1/2/1

In a big win against Portland
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#2180 » by Jurassic_Park » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:26 am

Ja with another win... 20/5/9. lock this ROY trophy up... start engraving Ja's name.

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