2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

ardee · Post #21 » by **ardee** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:50 am

PaulieWal wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:

Clyde Frazier wrote:

Could one of you fine gents please sticky this

ardee · Post #22 » by **ardee** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:52 am

limbo wrote:Giannis leads with a sizable gap. Then it's LeBron, Harden, Kawhi, Jokic in that order.

If Kawhi didn't miss a decent chunk of games he'd be competing for the 2nd spot with LeBron. Ditto Harden, this abysmal stretch in the last couple of weeks killed him.

Gobert, Butler, Tatum, Lillard, Luka probably the next five to round out the Top 10...

Where do you guys have Khris Middleton this season? WS/48, RPM, PIPM all have him in the Top 15 firmly. He's been amazing, but how much does playing 29 mpg as the 2nd fiddle on a stacked team count against him? How is his scenario different from a Scottie Pippen?

Tatum over Davis?

Odinn21 · Post #23 » by **Odinn21** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:43 am

Colbinii wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Boy that’s tough. I actually think that was the last time Bron was better in the regular season than the playoffs. It’s close and I could go either way.

I actually love 2013 James the most in terms of RS. He played such a smart and efficient basketball, Heat were scary with healthy Wade. Reminds me a bit of 1967 Wilt with his unreal efficiency stats. I don't think even Giannnis reached that level, but I can be biased.

That 9-game stretch was absurd.
76.7 TS%, 30.1 USG%, 138 individual Ortg, 30.4 PPG on 16.8 shots per game.

In 2012-13 season, LeBron had 2 different 9 game stretches with 25+ ppg and 75.0+ ts%.
Game 44-52; 30.4 ppg on 76.7 ts (+23.2 rts)
Game 68-76; 27.2 ppg on 75.7 ts (+22.2 rts)

Just unreal.

The best of Giannis (as for 9 game stretch); game 21-29 with 32.6 ppg 66.4 ts (+10.1 rts)

70sFan · Post #24 » by **70sFan** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:10 pm

Odinn21 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
70sFan wrote:I actually love 2013 James the most in terms of RS. He played such a smart and efficient basketball, Heat were scary with healthy Wade. Reminds me a bit of 1967 Wilt with his unreal efficiency stats. I don't think even Giannnis reached that level, but I can be biased.

That 9-game stretch was absurd.
76.7 TS%, 30.1 USG%, 138 individual Ortg, 30.4 PPG on 16.8 shots per game.

In 2012-13 season, LeBron had 2 different 9 game stretches with 25+ ppg and 75.0+ ts%.
Game 44-52; 30.4 ppg on 76.7 ts (+23.2 rts)
Game 68-76; 27.2 ppg on 75.7 ts (+22.2 rts)

Just unreal.

The best of Giannis (as for 9 game stretch); game 21-29 with 32.6 ppg 66.4 ts (+10.1 rts)

Yeah, just unreal production from James. Why I compared that to Wilt?

Games 18-26: 28.2 ppg on 76.3% TS (+27.0 rTS%)
Games 60-68: 32.3 ppg on 68.4% TS (+19.1 rTS%)

With decent FT shooting he would approach 30 ppg on 90% TS.

Odinn21 · Post #25 » by **Odinn21** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:43 pm

70sFan wrote:
Odinn21 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
That 9-game stretch was absurd.
76.7 TS%, 30.1 USG%, 138 individual Ortg, 30.4 PPG on 16.8 shots per game.

In 2012-13 season, LeBron had 2 different 9 game stretches with 25+ ppg and 75.0+ ts%.
Game 44-52; 30.4 ppg on 76.7 ts (+23.2 rts)
Game 68-76; 27.2 ppg on 75.7 ts (+22.2 rts)

Just unreal.

The best of Giannis (as for 9 game stretch); game 21-29 with 32.6 ppg 66.4 ts (+10.1 rts)

Yeah, just unreal production from James. Why I compared that to Wilt?

Games 18-26: 28.2 ppg on 76.3% TS (+27.0 rTS%)
Games 60-68: 32.3 ppg on 68.4% TS (+19.1 rTS%)

With decent FT shooting he would approach 30 ppg on 90% TS.

The only other player I can think of with 25+ ppg and 20+ rts is Curry.
In 2017-18 season, games 22-30; 31.6 ppg on 76.4 ts (+20.8 rts)

He also had 4 9 game stretches with 25+ ppg and 15-20 range rts in 2015-16 season alone. Also one other in 2017-18, and another one in 2018-19. And that's the club probably.

Mos_Heat · Post #26 » by **Mos_Heat** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:43 am

1. Giannis
2. Lebron
3. Jokic
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
6. Doncic
7. Lillard
8. Gobert
9. Davis
10. Butler

Colbinii · Post #27 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:54 pm

Mos_Heat wrote:1. Giannis
2. Lebron
3. Jokic
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
6. Doncic
7. Lillard
8. Gobert
9. Davis
10. Butler

At this point what is Luka's argument over Lillard?

E-Balla · Post #28 » by **E-Balla** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:31 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:1. Giannis
2. Lebron
3. Jokic
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
6. Doncic
7. Lillard
8. Gobert
9. Davis
10. Butler

At this point what is Luka's argument over Lillard?

Or Davis' over Butler?

E-Balla · Post #29 » by **E-Balla** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:40 pm

If I were to do a top 10 I got:

1. Giannis
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi
4. Lillard
5. Jimmy
6. Harden
7. Tatum
8. Siakam
9. Jokic
10. Paul

70sFan · Post #30 » by **70sFan** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:47 pm

E-Balla wrote:If I were to do a top 10 I got:

1. Giannis
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi
4. Lillard
5. Jimmy
6. Harden
7. Tatum
8. Siakam
9. Jokic
10. Paul

I don't agree with your Siakam placement. He's very good and nice to watch, he's also good defender which is a big plus, but what makes him better than Jokic? Or Davis? Or Gobert? I just don't see that.

70sFan · Post #31 » by **70sFan** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:49 pm

Also, I was the first to say to not overreact with Doncic hype but he's definitely in top 10 this year (at least at this moment). His team is extremely underrated, but that doesn't make him worse. Tatum and Siakam don't have worse teammates at all.

E-Balla · Post #32 » by **E-Balla** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:21 pm

70sFan wrote:
E-Balla wrote:If I were to do a top 10 I got:

1. Giannis
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi
4. Lillard
5. Jimmy
6. Harden
7. Tatum
8. Siakam
9. Jokic
10. Paul

I don't agree with your Siakam placement. He's very good and nice to watch, he's also good defender which is a big plus, but what makes him better than Jokic? Or Davis? Or Gobert? I just don't see that.

Jokic? Well he wasn't out of shape the first 2 months of the season so that makes a huge difference.

Davis? He's been clearly worse defensively and offensively this year I want to know what the argument for him over Pascal would even be. His playmaking has been mediocre at best, his jumper is failing him, and he's not crashing the boards well. His bully ball game is effective at getting him points but it drains time and he's not at all playing with his usual fast pace. Pascal on the other hand might look worse statistically but he runs the floor extremely well, is killing it in isolation situations with the ball in his hand, and constantly applies pressure on opposing defenses.

Gobert... Well he's a defensive star having an off year compared to his usual and offensively he's just a finisher which is good, but not carrying a team vs top defenses while Siakam is a 2 way impact player. Spicy P is getting to the rim at will while being the 2nd best defender to Marc Gasol on the 2nd best defense in the league. Gobert was my first player out though.

E-Balla · Post #33 » by **E-Balla** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:46 pm

70sFan wrote:Also, I was the first to say to not overreact with Doncic hype but he's definitely in top 10 this year (at least at this moment). His team is extremely underrated, but that doesn't make him worse. Tatum and Siakam don't have worse teammates at all.

Tatum and Siakam aren't on 32-22 teams either so sure they don't have worse teammates, they also don't have worse teams.

There's no way Doncic makes the impact on both ends of the court those two make, they're the best 2 way players in the league outside of LeBron, Kawhi, and Giannis.

freethedevil · Post #34 » by **freethedevil** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:16 am

E-Balla wrote:
70sFan wrote:Also, I was the first to say to not overreact with Doncic hype but he's definitely in top 10 this year (at least at this moment). His team is extremely underrated, but that doesn't make him worse. Tatum and Siakam don't have worse teammates at all.

Tatum and Siakam aren't on 32-22 teams either so sure they don't have worse teammates, they also don't have worse teams.

There's no way Doncic makes the impact on both ends of the court those two make, they're the best 2 way players in the league outside of LeBron, Kawhi, and Giannis.[/b]

LMAO WHAT!

Perimiter defenders are auto disqualified from being anything more than complimentary pieces defensively. You should feel bad for listing them as two way players.

Also bud, 1 year rapm is useless, and even if it wasn't, using PER MINUITE stats doesn't change Luka has far more volume here. Luka is 4th in wins added this year. Tatum is 13th. Marginal effiency improvement over vastly less volume isn't worth ****. One player is a superstar playing superstar minuites, The other is a role player.

Go look at Lebron's three year rpm and tell me how thr **** you decided he's one of the best two way players in the league.

Never ever ask anyone "have you seeen x play" again.

E-Balla · Post #35 » by **E-Balla** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:19 am

freethedevil wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
70sFan wrote:Also, I was the first to say to not overreact with Doncic hype but he's definitely in top 10 this year (at least at this moment). His team is extremely underrated, but that doesn't make him worse. Tatum and Siakam don't have worse teammates at all.

Tatum and Siakam aren't on 32-22 teams either so sure they don't have worse teammates, they also don't have worse teams.

There's no way Doncic makes the impact on both ends of the court those two make, they're the best 2 way players in the league outside of LeBron, Kawhi, and Giannis.[/b]

LMAO WHAT!

Perimiter defenders are auto disqualified from being anything more than complimentary pieces defensively.

Not even engaging with this...

Post #36 » by **bondom34** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:28 am

I missed this last year, but thinking so far I'm in the loose top 10 of:

1. Giannis

2-6 in some order: Jokic, Lebron, Kawhi, Harden, Lillard

7-9: Doncic, Butler, Siakam

Guys in the running for 10: Simmons, Davis, Gobert

Colbinii · Post #37 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:45 am

bondom34 wrote:I missed this last year, but thinking so far I'm in the loose top 10 of:

1. Giannis

2-6 in some order: Jokic, Lebron, Kawhi, Harden, Lillard

7-9: Doncic, Butler, Siakam

Guys in the running for 10: Simmons, Davis, Gobert

I think the tiers right now are...

1: Giannis
2-4: Harden, LeBron and Kawhi
5-6: Jokic, Lillard
7-16: Doncic, Butler, Siakam, Simmons, Gobert, Tatum, Paul, Lowry, Embiid, Davis
16-20: Middleton, Graham, Westbrook, Sabonis

I have a small gap between the 2nd and 3rd tier.

Post #38 » by **bondom34** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:53 am

Colbinii wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I missed this last year, but thinking so far I'm in the loose top 10 of:

1. Giannis

2-6 in some order: Jokic, Lebron, Kawhi, Harden, Lillard

7-9: Doncic, Butler, Siakam

Guys in the running for 10: Simmons, Davis, Gobert

I think the tiers right now are...

1: Giannis
2-4: Harden, LeBron and Kawhi
5-6: Jokic, Lillard
7-15: Doncic, Butler, Siakam, Simmons, Gobert, Tatum, Paul, Lowry, Embiid
16-20: Middleton, Graham, Westbrook, Sabonis, Bogdanovic

I have a small gap between the 2nd and 3rd tier.

I'm admittedly higher on Joker (might consider him 2nd right now which is wild, but I'll admit recency bias probably plays in), and expect Dame to drop due to team record and I'm thinking they miss the playoffs if he's out at all.

I'm also a bit lower on Tatum, and considered CP3 but there's a few teams (OKC, Boston, Indiana) I struggle putting anyone there at the moment until I can figure it out. Considered Sabonis too, and Middleton's been awesome. Think the only guy I'm probably notably lower on is Graham.

But honestly at this point the only really strong argument I would have with anyone is if Giannis isn't just far and away number one, it's mostly just feeling it out until about March.

eminence · Post #39 » by **eminence** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:05 am

I'd have Giannis/LeBron clearly the 1/2. 3-8 would be Kawhi, Butler, Gobert, Jokic, Harden, Lillard in some order.

freethedevil · Post #40 » by **freethedevil** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:51 am

E-Balla wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Tatum and Siakam aren't on 32-22 teams either so sure they don't have worse teammates, they also don't have worse teams.

There's no way Doncic makes the impact on both ends of the court those two make, they're the best 2 way players in the league outside of LeBron, Kawhi, and Giannis.[/b]

LMAO WHAT!

Perimiter defenders are auto disqualified from being anything more than complimentary pieces defensively.

Not even engaging with this...

Then why did you quote me?

:roll: