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Trade Thread

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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#261 » by d-train » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:55 pm

Roy The Natural wrote:
d-train wrote:It's funny how many people here have advocated for acquiring Gallo or Harris to be our team's SF, but don't believe Melo is a SF. Heck, Harkless was our SF for 3 years and he has no SF skills. Harkless has the offensive skills of a PF. Melo has a complete SF skillset.


Melo has zero chance to guard decent opposing 3's. He's going to give up a ton of points guarding the 3 spot.

Actually, Melo defends 3's very well. He isn't great at 'on-the-ball' defending, but that's not really a problem since there are few 3's that are their team's playmaker. Ariza is the only Blazer that is good at defending the ball and he happens to be a 3, but defending the ball isn't a prerequisite for defending 3's.

You can say we need an 'on-the-ball' defender in our starting lineup. This isn't a bad point except nobody complained when Hood was a starter. CJ and Lillard are better 'on-the-ball' defenders than Hood is. The only reason you would put Hood on the ballhandler, is because it's better to preserve Lillard's and CJ's energy for offense. When we don't have a ballhawking defender in our lineup (which has to happen when we have only 1 on the team), it means CJ has to play the Hood role as our mediocre on-ball defender.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#262 » by Roy The Natural » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

d-train wrote:
Roy The Natural wrote:
d-train wrote:It's funny how many people here have advocated for acquiring Gallo or Harris to be our team's SF, but don't believe Melo is a SF. Heck, Harkless was our SF for 3 years and he has no SF skills. Harkless has the offensive skills of a PF. Melo has a complete SF skillset.


Melo has zero chance to guard decent opposing 3's. He's going to give up a ton of points guarding the 3 spot.

Actually, Melo defends 3's very well. He isn't great at 'on-the-ball' defending, but that's not really a problem since there are few 3's that are their team's playmaker. Ariza is the only Blazer that is good at defending the ball and he happens to be a 3, but defending the ball isn't a prerequisite for defending 3's.

You can say we need an 'on-the-ball' defender in our starting lineup. This isn't a bad point except nobody complained when Hood was a starter. CJ and Lillard are better 'on-the-ball' defenders than Hood is. The only reason you would put Hood on the ballhandler, is because it's better to preserve Lillard's and CJ's energy for offense. When we don't have a ballhawking defender in our lineup (which has to happen when we have only 1 on the team), it means CJ has to play the Hood role as our mediocre on-ball defender.


Except in the Western Conference playoffs....... Where the Lakers, Clippers, Jazz, Rockets, and Mavs all have the capability to get Melo switched onto a perimeter wing and take advantage of him, or at a bare minimum take advantage of the fact that Melo is completely useless as a help defender.

Yes, Melo is more than capable of standing there on a guy standing in a corner. But anything else and he's completely screwed. Relying on Melo to guard wings is a death sentence.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#263 » by d-train » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:38 pm

Your assessment of Melo's defense is just wrong. I watch his defense closely. His help defense and rotations are very good.

And, we would be lucky if opponents tried to switch Melo onto there playmaker rather than Whiteside.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#264 » by Roy The Natural » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:33 am

d-train wrote:Your assessment of Melo's defense is just wrong. I watch his defense closely. His help defense and rotations are very good.

And, we would be lucky if opponents tried to switch Melo onto there playmaker rather than Whiteside.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Haven't laughed that hard in a while.... Thanks man.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#265 » by Goldbum » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:16 pm

Melo has been an absolutely great addition to the team. We are going to make the playoffs and I would bet a big part of that is not just his play but his superstar mentorship of Dame. Lillard's pursuit of dominance has been a revelation and I can't believe that it's just a coincidence that it occurred with Melo on the roster. When you have a guy on your team whose been a part of the king James, D Wade NBA hierarchy and he's telling you not to let up, I think it carries weight.
Now obviously the above is conjecture, but it's a narrative that make sense.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#266 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:08 pm

I don't really know where this Melo at SF talk has come from. He has not been used at that position his entire tenure in Portland. The FO clearly sees him as a PF.

He may be a good locker room guy, but its clear from advanced metrics that he is not able to shoulder the load of a 32mpg player at this point. He is average of below average at just about everything. The real test will be to see his fit as a offensive bench compliment to Zach for 20-22mpg. I think he can excel in that role. But his WS, BPM, VORP all indicate a player that shouldn't be getting heavy minutes. He is the best option right now to be force fed starters minutes at PF, but he needs to be on the bench if he comes back.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#267 » by Norm2953 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:22 pm

Melo at this point in his career is not a SF but he knows how to play but isn't the player he was five
years ago. It will be interesting this summer what Portland does with Whiteside, Melo and Ariza. I
doubt Portland would like to retain all 3 even if they all want to come back for those Dame/CJ
extensions have to loom large in how they build their team.

There is a lot of talk of Trent Jr on the general board. He's coming along fine and any other GM might
think hard of moving CJ this summer but like Wes before him, he's got a limited handle, which means the
SF on the roster needs to be able to handle the ball. His best position will be SG who can play some SF.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#268 » by DusterBuster » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:09 pm

DaVoiceMaster wrote:What is Cleveland up to? Drummond, Love, and Thompson up front. Is someone else leaving that we haven't heard about yet?


The term, "throwing ish against the wall to see what sticks" comes to mind. Pretty much been that teams FO anytime they didn't have LeBron.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#269 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:20 pm

Cleveland saw that Detroit was moving away from the overpriced not-quite-treadmill-even team prototype and decided it was their god given duty to take that spot.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#270 » by Goldbum » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:01 am

I think an offseason trade of CJ for Aaron Gordon and Bamba makes sense for both teams. Frees Portland up to draft a Guard who will most likely be BPA
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#271 » by red_power » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:49 am

I think there was a lot of time to realize that CJ's trade is completely off the table as long as Olshey runs this team. Unless Derozan-for-Kawhi swap opportunity comes along.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#272 » by d-train » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:01 am

Goldbum wrote:I think an offseason trade of CJ for Aaron Gordon and Bamba makes sense for both teams. Frees Portland up to draft a Guard who will most likely be BPA

Blazers are already free to draft a guard if they want to. They aren't going to be drafting a player they expect to help immediately.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#273 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:37 pm

I think there was a lot of time to realize that CJ's trade is completely off the table as long as Olshey runs this team. Unless Derozan-for-Kawhi swap opportunity comes along.


I so badly want to see how this team operates with CJ taking more catch / shoot 3PT shots. He hits them at a 47% rate (Has the best catch / shoot EFG% in the league), yet is 76th in the league at attempts. Below such 3PT stalwarts as Aaron Baynes, Andrew Wiggins, Dario Saric, Marcus Smart, etc.

I understand that we need CJ to ISO because this team is short on scoring talent overall. But he should at least be taking 5 of these shots per game rather than 3.4, and arguably even more than 5.

Finding another scoring talent to take pressure off CJ and allow him to get more open looks is much more important, IMO, than finding that 2 way, 3/D wing everyone wants that doesn't really exist on the market. Its why I honestly don't think DeMar DeRozan would be a bad fit on this team. But that ship has sailed with the trade deadline passing.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#274 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:11 pm

If we renounce all out cap holds, waive Ariza and Mario decides to return to Europe our cap space would be around 18M (Taking into account 5 cap holds).

Assuming that DeRozan has a tepid market since few teams have cap space and want a SG/SF that is 30 and cant shoot the 3, I don't think its insane to think we could sign him at a deal starting around 17-18M per. Adding a shot creator who is also a faciliatory and would allow CJ to play off ball and spotup would be tremendous. He isn't an elite defender, but nowhere near as bad as many make him seem. His age aligns with our win now core, he doesn't cost assets outside opporuntity cost to sign other guys and would most likely be the best option on the market.

We would still have three trade exceptions, Room MLE (4.5M), BAE (3.5M) and #14 pick in the draft to round out the team.

Kent Exception for Ed Davis, who has fallen out of favor in Utah.
Room MLE to resign Carmelo Anthony.
Vet Min to sign Matt Dellavedova.
Draft F/C Obi Toppin #14, G Ochai Agbaji at #45

G - Damian Lillard (32) / Anferne Simons (16)
G - CJ McCollum (32) / Gary Trent Jr (16)
F - DeMar DeRozan (30) / Rodney Hood (18)
F - Zach Collins (22) / Carmelo Anthony (26)
C - Jusuf Nurkic (28) / Ed Davis (12) / Zach Collins (8)

Deep Bench - PG Matt Dellavedova / G Ochai Agbaji / F Nassir Little / F Weynen Gabriel / FC Obi Toppin
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#275 » by DaVoiceMaster » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:53 pm

I don't see Melo back with the team next year. It's been great having him on the team, but he is really declining and another year will only get worse. I also don't want Whiteside back next year if Nurk and/or Collins is healthy. He would be an expensive backup and I think the Blazers can do better finding a backup PF that would allow Collins to pick up the backup C minutes. I dunno that Ed Davis is the answer either BB. I liked Ed while he was here and he was very productive, but maybe his time has come and gone, as well. I really wish the Blazers had kept Skal and utilized him as the backup big for both the PF/C positions. Is there any way we can swap CJ for Jrue?

The Blazers really need to find their SF of the future. They should target someone and do whatever they can to get him. Can the Blazers just sign Sabrina Ionescu as the backup PG? DOH!
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#276 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:31 pm

I don't see Melo back with the team next year. It's been great having him on the team, but he is really declining and another year will only get worse.


I would accept him back as a backup bench scorer. But he shouldn't sniff 30mpg.

One thing that is attractive about him is his possible cost. If he really does enjoy it here we could renounce his cap hold, which is small, but every penny will count if we try to make the 17-18M cap space happen. He then could sit around until we have signed our guy(s) and return for the BAE. We wont find a better player IMO for that cost, at least on one side of the floor.

would be an expensive backup and I think the Blazers can do better finding a backup PF that would allow Collins to pick up the backup C minutes.


I don't necessarily love the idea of resigning Hassan, but we have his bird rights so we can sign him w/o using the MLE/BAE. If we let him walk to target a backup PF, and also let Melo walk, we need to use the MLE/BAE on that backup spot. Mind you that guys like Ersan Illysova make 7-9M in this league. The UFA backup PF crop in the MLE range is Markieff Morris, Marvin Williams, Jae Crowder, Hollins-Jefferson. Are any of those guys really worth paying over Melo, who may take a 1 year BAE? We are not getting Christian Wood or Bertans or anyone truly interesting for the MLE, those guys will demand more. So the end game is a marginal player, on a longer deal.

I dunno that Ed Davis is the answer either BB. I liked Ed while he was here and he was very productive, but maybe his time has come and gone, as well.


The attraction w/ Ed Davis is he fits in the Bazemore TPE. We don't need to use our MLE or BAE to get him here. He is also a great locker room guy who wont complain about minutes as Zach would get most at backup C. The TPE's these days don't command good players usually, so aiming low and assuming Utah wants to save some money is a realistic proposal IMO. I only like this option if we renounce Hassan to create that 17-18M cap space. We then still can use the Room MLE, BAE and finally TPE's to improve the roster.

The Blazers really need to find their SF of the future. They should target someone and do whatever they can to get him.


The ideal SF that many fans keep talking about just isn't available. OG Anunoby isn't walking through that door anytime soon, and even then he likely doesn't score enough to be our ideal SF. We need to make concessions, a reason that making cap space to sign DeRozan or even Fournier may be the only move. Hayward would be ideal, but he will command much more than we can offer.

I think the market for DeRozan could be so tepid that we could sign him for the cap space we have, and I think its a gamble easily worth taking. He fits our win now Dame-timeline and is an excellent if archaic talent. I think he fills the need at SF for that playmaker we have lacked since Batum, and his ability to draw fouls would help a ton. We just need to get creative at this point and I would like to announce that this guy is firmly on the sign DeRozan train. Realistically which team offers him more than 17-18M this summer? We may even be able to get him for 15M IMO. The team needs high level talent right now to maximize Dame's years and making cap space for this type of move is the best avenue to improvement.

Moving CJ for someone like Aaron Gordon and a prospect to start Gary Trent Jr or Simons is absolutely not bringing the Damian years any closer to a chip, it would bring them closer to a close.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#277 » by zzaj » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:45 pm

According to the WT the Gordon was getting shopped hard at the deadline. I have no idea where that means his value is at...just thought it was interesting.

I'm in the 'trade CJ for a mild shakeup' camp...just like I was 3-4 years ago.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#278 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:59 pm

According to the WT the Gordon was getting shopped hard at the deadline. I have no idea where that means his value is at...just thought it was interesting.

I'm in the 'trade CJ for a mild shakeup' camp...just like I was 3-4 years ago.


The issue with Gordon is that he just isn't that good. He has been in the league for 7 years. He is a medium-high level role player whos athletic profile leaves people to overrate his defense. He is also much better at PF and SF.

We could almost certainly get him for Ariza and our FRP. I am not sure that's a deal we should take. He cant shoot the 3, he is only a decent passer because of his usage, his defense is overrated and you would think he could get to the line using his frame and athleticism but only averages like 2.2 FT per game.
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#279 » by Myth » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:02 pm

zzaj wrote:According to the WT the Gordon was getting shopped hard at the deadline. I have no idea where that means his value is at...just thought it was interesting.

I'm in the 'trade CJ for a mild shakeup' camp...just like I was 3-4 years ago.

Lillard just lobbied for Booker for all-star. Now use that good cred to package CJ+assets for Booker :D

(A guy can dream)
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Re: Trade Thread 

Post#280 » by zzaj » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:50 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
According to the WT the Gordon was getting shopped hard at the deadline. I have no idea where that means his value is at...just thought it was interesting.

I'm in the 'trade CJ for a mild shakeup' camp...just like I was 3-4 years ago.


The issue with Gordon is that he just isn't that good. He has been in the league for 7 years. He is a medium-high level role player whos athletic profile leaves people to overrate his defense. He is also much better at PF and SF.

We could almost certainly get him for Ariza and our FRP. I am not sure that's a deal we should take. He cant shoot the 3, he is only a decent passer because of his usage, his defense is overrated and you would think he could get to the line using his frame and athleticism but only averages like 2.2 FT per game.


To be clear, I'm not suggesting a CJ for Gordon swap...just that Gordon was likely available at the deadline.

As for Gordon on the Blazers, he'd be an instant upgrade over both Melo and (yes) Collins. Collins is the more efficient scorer, but Gordon is better at just about everything else, including defense and rebounding.

Is Gordon's production worth his downgrading 19.8M-16.4M? That's not for me to say. But the kid is still only 2 years older than Collins at 24, and sometimes a change of scenery can do wonders...especially from a team like the Magic. Will Collins be a better player than Gordon in 2 years? I sure hope so...

What worries me most about Gordon is that injury history. He's missed significant time in 3 of his 6 years in the NBA.

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