Game 55: Los Angeles Clippers (37-17) @ Boston Celtics (37-16) - 8:00 PM ET

[Yogatti]

This is going to be Clippers basketball for the next 5 years. Endless Lou Williams and Trezz pnr because this teams doesn't have any offense besides that. Trezz playing 40 minute straight so no rim protection during the entire game. No adjustments ever made because doc rivers is low IQ and isn't capable of doing that. Still going to play McGarbage because that's his new favorite pet since Avaery Bradley left.

Dark times ahead for us clippers fan

[MartinToVaught]

I'm just praying this franchise finally has the courage to move on from Doc if we get bounced in the first or second round again. He's a mediocre coach at best who will always hold back the team's potential. He's the NBA version of Jason Garrett.

It's absurd that Trez played 30 minutes straight tonight. There's no point in having a deep roster when your coach manages minutes like Thibs. Maybe Kawhi could have gotten back into rhythm down the stretch if Zu was out there for that Kawhi-Zu PnR.

[Yogatti]

doc rivers is basically a glorified tyronn lue. He's the "mark jackson" and Jerry West needs to find the "steve kerr" to elevate this team to another level.

I'm honestly fine if Clippers get bounced in the 1st round because that's the only way the FO can be convinced to get rid of doc rivers

[Akklaim1]

2-game skid. Not 3.

Still stinks though. I was hoping for our first 60-win season. It looks like it's out of the picture now as we have to avoid losing 5 more times the rest of the way.

Team record is 57 wins, which we still might equal. Plus, so what. That was Doc's first year after we flushed Vinnie.

You can't find even one person on this board who gives a ****.

I give a **** because 60 wins pretty much guarantee you a top 2 seed and HCA in the first 2 rounds.

[Clemenza]

Need Pat Bev back asap. He would've tamed the games of Josh Richardson(Philly) and Marcus Smart. Those two ran wild on us these last two games.

Trezz was out of gas in the OT's. Doc should've brought in Zu when the Celtics didn't have a center and run the Kawhi/Zu pick n roll which would've gotten Kawhi some open looks and added some rim protection on the defensive end. At least for a spell. Kawhi was getting smothered on offense.

This PG injury situation is starting to worry me. That training squad better figure out his hamstring status quick!

[esqtvd]

We're f&cken Coachless.

driveby scapegoating is bogus, bro

please do tell us what you would have done instead


coaching is the only reason we were ever in this game starting with pulling Zubac for Trezz [minus-13] after we fell behind by 10 within 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter


Trezz played 44 minutes and finished plus+4 with 24 points and 13 rebounds


what magic trick would you have pulled out of your hat?

tell us, Mr. Wizard


the floor's all yours


me, I think this was one of our best games of the year and I'm not gonna douchebag anybody about it

[MartinRiggs]

Ok,I guess I am giving up on first seed hopes now.

PG left hamstring again. He took a long break and played some games so I thought it is healed but guess not.

I know a soccer player that had 8-9 hamstring injuries in 2.5 years and is now out 6 months after operation. Last thing we need is for injuries to take the championship away after suffering with Blake and CP3.

[Roscoe Sheed]

I guess as a clipper fan you can never be sure of anything- even after obtaining talented players, the injury bug hits them. It also always seems like they get out coached in most major match ups. I know it’s only been a few games, but it looks like the staff doesn’t know how to incorporate Morris- hardly anything run for him

[Yogatti]

I guess as a clipper fan you can never be sure of anything- even after obtaining talented players, the injury bug hits them. It also always seems like they get out coached in most major match ups. I know it’s only been a few games, but it looks like the staff doesn’t know how to incorporate Morris- hardly anything run for him

Did you see how many times Brad Stevens had Shamet switched to guard Jayson Tatum during 4th quarter, 1 & 2 OT? Doc Rivers couldn't make any adjustments during that stretch it was honestly pathetic to watch. It's like he's too dumb to figure out how to stop from getting exploited. We are always going to be at a disadvantage at the coaching aspect. It's up to Kawhi to play out of his mind in the playoffs again in order for the Clippers to have a chance to ring since Paul George just seems to be Playoff P these days

[SlayrODynasties]

There's two subteams on this team. The starters who can play both sides of the floor and the bench who is about trading buckets all day. On paper, Rivers should be able stick good defensive wings with Lou, Shamet and Harrell to stop them from bleeding back points while they go score but it's not working out. All through the season, Rivers has placed any two-man combination of Kawhi, PG, Harkless, Green, Morris and the latest one Coffey with those three and they still can't click as a lineup.

Shamet does his best staying in front of his man but he's still a second year player with a finesse shooter's body and no natural defensive instinct, like swiping the ball at just the right moment to counter bigger forwards bulldozing through him. He'll just be liable to foul if he forces a swipe. Any 4 of Beverley, Kawhi, PG, Morris and Zu on the starting lineup can cover for him but playing with the bench easily turns the game into a bucket-for-bucket proposition.

I'm just going to put it out there. When Lou and Harrell do well, which will statistically happen when they enjoy major closing minutes, nobody else does well and it's a lot harder to win, especially against .600 teams. And nobody else seems to do well playing with them from covering up in the defensive end.

Remember easy rules-of-thumb any fan of a playoff team knows about their opponent's stars like if Westbrook shoots 20-25 jumpers, the other team will likely win, or if you're playing against the Warriors you want to invite Harrison Barnes, Draymond or Iguodala to shoot? I'm starting to think opposing coaches and scouts have figured out they want the ball in the hands of Lou and Harrell (who can't trade 3balls) the majority of the closing minutes of a game. Rivers can't see it from pure loyalty, from being too close with his guys.

[TheNewEra]

There's two subteams on this team. The starters who can play both sides of the floor and the bench who is about trading buckets all day. On paper, Rivers should be able stick good defensive wings with Lou, Shamet and Harrell to stop them from bleeding back points while they go score but it's not working out. All through the season, Rivers has placed any two-man combination of Kawhi, PG, Harkless, Green, Morris and the latest one Coffey with those three and they still can't click as a lineup.

Shamet does his best staying in front of his man but he's still a second year player with a finesse shooter's body and no natural defensive instinct, like swiping the ball at just the right moment to counter bigger forwards bulldozing through him. He'll just be liable to foul if he forces a swipe. Any 4 of Beverley, Kawhi, PG, Morris and Zu on the starting lineup can cover for him but playing with the bench easily turns the game into a bucket-for-bucket proposition.

I'm just going to put it out there. When Lou and Harrell do well, which will statistically happen when they enjoy major closing minutes, nobody else does well and it's a lot harder to win, especially against .600 teams. And nobody else seems to do well playing with them from covering up in the defensive end.

Remember easy rules-of-thumb any fan of a playoff team knows about their opponent's stars like if Westbrook shoots 20-25 jumpers, the other team will likely win, or if you're playing against the Warriors you want to invite Harrison Barnes, Draymond or Iguodala to shoot? I'm starting to think opposing coaches and scouts have figured out they want the ball in the hands of Lou and Harrell (who can't trade 3balls) the majority of the closing minutes of a game. Rivers can't see it from pure loyalty, from being too close with his guys.

Great post

[TheNewEra]

Need Pat Bev back asap. He would've tamed the games of Josh Richardson(Philly) and Marcus Smart. Those two ran wild on us these last two games.

Trezz was out of gas in the OT's. Doc should've brought in Zu when the Celtics didn't have a center and run the Kawhi/Zu pick n roll which would've gotten Kawhi some open looks and added some rim protection on the defensive end. At least for a spell. Kawhi was getting smothered on offense.

This PG injury situation is starting to worry me. That training squad better figure out his hamstring status quick!

What’s worse no one was coming to the ball during the doubles to help. We have been beating double teams all season with strong screen pass off or short rolls. What happen last night was dribbling and taking turns

[esqtvd]

There's two subteams on this team. The starters who can play both sides of the floor and the bench who is about trading buckets all day. On paper, Rivers should be able stick good defensive wings with Lou, Shamet and Harrell to stop them from bleeding back points while they go score but it's not working out. All through the season, Rivers has placed any two-man combination of Kawhi, PG, Harkless, Green, Morris and the latest one Coffey with those three and they still can't click as a lineup.

Shamet does his best staying in front of his man but he's still a second year player with a finesse shooter's body and no natural defensive instinct, like swiping the ball at just the right moment to counter bigger forwards bulldozing through him. He'll just be liable to foul if he forces a swipe. Any 4 of Beverley, Kawhi, PG, Morris and Zu on the starting lineup can cover for him but playing with the bench easily turns the game into a bucket-for-bucket proposition.

I'm just going to put it out there. When Lou and Harrell do well, which will statistically happen when they enjoy major closing minutes, nobody else does well and it's a lot harder to win, especially against .600 teams. And nobody else seems to do well playing with them from covering up in the defensive end.

Remember easy rules-of-thumb any fan of a playoff team knows about their opponent's stars like if Westbrook shoots 20-25 jumpers, the other team will likely win, or if you're playing against the Warriors you want to invite Harrison Barnes, Draymond or Iguodala to shoot? I'm starting to think opposing coaches and scouts have figured out they want the ball in the hands of Lou and Harrell (who can't trade 3balls) the majority of the closing minutes of a game. Rivers can't see it from pure loyalty, from being too close with his guys.

We were virtually a brand-new team with virtually no training camp and still have suffered a continuing string of injuries. Lou and Trezz play as much as they do trying to make up for them. We're 37-18. Go ahead and blame Lou, Trezz and Doc for the losses. I'll blame them for the wins.

[Dynamix]

We should all agree to blame McGruder for not being better.

[Roach Clip]

A screen can also draw more attention to the open man if teams doubled. It was a terrible decision to have him just dribble and no one even close for him to pass it to for a easier look

Well it's not a terrible decision, this is what coaches all around the league are doing. They might screen in order to get a switch and get a better defensive matchup, but there's nothing terrible about isolation at the top in that situation.

A screen is better than a double without a screen most times, but if you think they might double, then a screen is just bringing a second defender and possibly getting the ball out of the hands of the guy who you want to shoot. Kawhi's read was not the best, he didn't want to give it up, he had the angle to do so if he really wanted to, but he wanted to shoot, it is what it is.

Well, thanks for some actual basketball discussion on our game thread, OG. Nobody cares.

I'm out. Doc sucks. Planet Zubac wins again--as if more Zubac would have made any difference, LOL.

We need to see you and the other moderators in the game threads while the game is on. Or else it just turns into mob rule, as you can see. We need intelligent and positive discussion and influence or else the bad drives out the good, and then poisons all the neutral people too. I hope you'll discuss this with your fellow moderators. "Moderating" needs an active role.



Helluva game. No Pat Bev and then missing our 'other' superstar for the rest. 2 OTs on the home floor of one of the best teams in the NBA.

Clipper players and Clipper fans can walk away from this one with heads held high. I enjoyed it. Hope other people did too.

Mob rule. That's funny. You must hate life. Go Clippers!

[og15]

There's two subteams on this team. The starters who can play both sides of the floor and the bench who is about trading buckets all day. On paper, Rivers should be able stick good defensive wings with Lou, Shamet and Harrell to stop them from bleeding back points while they go score but it's not working out. All through the season, Rivers has placed any two-man combination of Kawhi, PG, Harkless, Green, Morris and the latest one Coffey with those three and they still can't click as a lineup.

Shamet does his best staying in front of his man but he's still a second year player with a finesse shooter's body and no natural defensive instinct, like swiping the ball at just the right moment to counter bigger forwards bulldozing through him. He'll just be liable to foul if he forces a swipe. Any 4 of Beverley, Kawhi, PG, Morris and Zu on the starting lineup can cover for him but playing with the bench easily turns the game into a bucket-for-bucket proposition.

I'm just going to put it out there. When Lou and Harrell do well, which will statistically happen when they enjoy major closing minutes, nobody else does well and it's a lot harder to win, especially against .600 teams. And nobody else seems to do well playing with them from covering up in the defensive end.

Remember easy rules-of-thumb any fan of a playoff team knows about their opponent's stars like if Westbrook shoots 20-25 jumpers, the other team will likely win, or if you're playing against the Warriors you want to invite Harrison Barnes, Draymond or Iguodala to shoot? I'm starting to think opposing coaches and scouts have figured out they want the ball in the hands of Lou and Harrell (who can't trade 3balls) the majority of the closing minutes of a game. Rivers can't see it from pure loyalty, from being too close with his guys.

Interesting points about the Lou/Shamet/Harrell combination and defense. Making up for three players on defense is too much though. Ideally you only want to be making up for one guy, and at most two. If there are more players on the floor to make up for than there are guys anchoring the defense, then it's very unlikely those lineups will consistently perform well on defense.

Or if you do have to make up for more than two guys on defense, one of those guys probably shouldn't be your big.

All that said, I don't ever feel it is fair to evaluate with perception and no data. I've been eyeing Harrell's on/off Drtg all season to see how the team performs on defense with him on the court (while of course understanding that he's not the only factor).

As of this moment:
Harrell on: 108.2 Drtg
Harrell off: 107.2 Drtg

Defense is a little bit better when he's off, but not significant, and who else he's playing with factors in.

What was evident before and is no longer evident is the offensive boost with him vs without.

At this moment:
Harrell on: 113.5 Ortg
Harrell off: 113.0 Ortg

This means that as of now, Harrell net on/off is -0.5, this does not mean he is bad or negative or anything like that. What it does mean is that the team so far is performing just as well (0.5 is such a small difference) with him on the court than without.

Zubac is obviously the big question when it comes to who should be playing instead.

Zubac on: 107.1 Drtg
Zubac off: 108.2 Drtg

Zubac on: 113.4 Ortg
Zubac off: 113.2 Drtg

His NetRtg is, +1.3. Small differences, there's some noise there, but at the least we can theorize that it's pretty much a wash as to which on is on the court at this moment. This gives great support to those who are calling for a greater use of Zubac, especially in moments where Harrell is playing long extended minutes and maybe starts to look winded or unable to give second and third efforts.

There's nothing in his play or the numbers suggesting that the team would start bleeding points if Zubac played more and more consistently, especially to give Harrell a breather. Now of course on/off data is just one piece, it's not taking into account teammates. Zubac plays more (most) of his minutes with better defenders than Harrell does, but then Harrell plays more minutes against bench lineups than Zubac does and those lineups are more often inferior on offense though maybe not on defense to their starter counterparts.

[esqtvd]

There's two subteams on this team. The starters who can play both sides of the floor and the bench who is about trading buckets all day. On paper, Rivers should be able stick good defensive wings with Lou, Shamet and Harrell to stop them from bleeding back points while they go score but it's not working out. All through the season, Rivers has placed any two-man combination of Kawhi, PG, Harkless, Green, Morris and the latest one Coffey with those three and they still can't click as a lineup.

Shamet does his best staying in front of his man but he's still a second year player with a finesse shooter's body and no natural defensive instinct, like swiping the ball at just the right moment to counter bigger forwards bulldozing through him. He'll just be liable to foul if he forces a swipe. Any 4 of Beverley, Kawhi, PG, Morris and Zu on the starting lineup can cover for him but playing with the bench easily turns the game into a bucket-for-bucket proposition.

I'm just going to put it out there. When Lou and Harrell do well, which will statistically happen when they enjoy major closing minutes, nobody else does well and it's a lot harder to win, especially against .600 teams. And nobody else seems to do well playing with them from covering up in the defensive end.

Remember easy rules-of-thumb any fan of a playoff team knows about their opponent's stars like if Westbrook shoots 20-25 jumpers, the other team will likely win, or if you're playing against the Warriors you want to invite Harrison Barnes, Draymond or Iguodala to shoot? I'm starting to think opposing coaches and scouts have figured out they want the ball in the hands of Lou and Harrell (who can't trade 3balls) the majority of the closing minutes of a game. Rivers can't see it from pure loyalty, from being too close with his guys.

Interesting points about the Lou/Shamet/Harrell combination and defense. Making up for three players on defense is too much though. Ideally you only want to be making up for one guy, and at most two. If there are more players on the floor to make up for than there are guys anchoring the defense, then it's very unlikely those lineups will consistently perform well on defense.

Or if you do have to make up for more than two guys on defense, one of those guys probably shouldn't be your big.

All that said, I don't ever feel it is fair to evaluate with perception and no data. I've been eyeing Harrell's on/off Drtg all season to see how the team performs on defense with him on the court (while of course understanding that he's not the only factor).

As of this moment:
Harrell on: 108.2 Drtg
Harrell off: 107.2 Drtg

Defense is a little bit better when he's off, but not significant, and who else he's playing with factors in.

What was evident before and is no longer evident is the offensive boost with him vs without.

At this moment:
Harrell on: 113.5 Ortg
Harrell off: 113.0 Ortg

This means that as of now, Harrell net on/off is -0.5, this does not mean he is bad or negative or anything like that. What it does mean is that the team so far is performing just as well (0.5 is such a small difference) with him on the court than without.

Zubac is obviously the big question when it comes to who should be playing instead.

Zubac on: 107.1 Drtg
Zubac off: 108.2 Drtg

Zubac on: 113.4 Ortg
Zubac off: 113.2 Drtg

His NetRtg is, +1.3. Small differences, there's some noise there, but at the least we can theorize that it's pretty much a wash as to which on is on the court at this moment. This gives great support to those who are calling for a greater use of Zubac, especially in moments where Harrell is playing long extended minutes and maybe starts to look winded or unable to give second and third efforts.

There's nothing in his play or the numbers suggesting that the team would start bleeding points if Zubac played more and more consistently, especially to give Harrell a breather. Now of course on/off data is just one piece, it's not taking into account teammates. Zubac plays more (most) of his minutes with better defenders than Harrell does, but then Harrell plays more minutes against bench lineups than Zubac does and those lineups are more often inferior on offense though maybe not on defense to their starter counterparts.

Good analysis, rather than opinions and rancid emotions, LOL. But put Zubac out there with the second team instead of the first and you'll see everything including his numbers go to hell.

His numbers are good with the first team because most of those minutes are with Kawhi, who makes everybody look good. And as you saw in a typical case like in Boston when he's having a bad game, we started getting killed at the beginning of the 3rd quarter and Doc gave him the hook. This not only helped preserve Zu's shiny stats [although he was still a team-worst minus-13 for the game] but also it stopped the bleeding on the court.

Trezz was the only reason we were still in that game, that and Lou's 35 points. And yet the game thread turns into bashing them. Unreal.

[Roscoe Sheed]

I guess as a clipper fan you can never be sure of anything- even after obtaining talented players, the injury bug hits them. It also always seems like they get out coached in most major match ups. I know it’s only been a few games, but it looks like the staff doesn’t know how to incorporate Morris- hardly anything run for him

Did you see how many times Brad Stevens had Shamet switched to guard Jayson Tatum during 4th quarter, 1 & 2 OT? Doc Rivers couldn't make any adjustments during that stretch it was honestly pathetic to watch. It's like he's too dumb to figure out how to stop from getting exploited. We are always going to be at a disadvantage at the coaching aspect. It's up to Kawhi to play out of his mind in the playoffs again in order for the Clippers to have a chance to ring since Paul George just seems to be Playoff P these days

in fairness to pg he just can’t seem to stay healthy for long enough to get any type of rhythm

[og15]

Spoiler:

There's two subteams on this team. The starters who can play both sides of the floor and the bench who is about trading buckets all day. On paper, Rivers should be able stick good defensive wings with Lou, Shamet and Harrell to stop them from bleeding back points while they go score but it's not working out. All through the season, Rivers has placed any two-man combination of Kawhi, PG, Harkless, Green, Morris and the latest one Coffey with those three and they still can't click as a lineup.

Shamet does his best staying in front of his man but he's still a second year player with a finesse shooter's body and no natural defensive instinct, like swiping the ball at just the right moment to counter bigger forwards bulldozing through him. He'll just be liable to foul if he forces a swipe. Any 4 of Beverley, Kawhi, PG, Morris and Zu on the starting lineup can cover for him but playing with the bench easily turns the game into a bucket-for-bucket proposition.

I'm just going to put it out there. When Lou and Harrell do well, which will statistically happen when they enjoy major closing minutes, nobody else does well and it's a lot harder to win, especially against .600 teams. And nobody else seems to do well playing with them from covering up in the defensive end.

Remember easy rules-of-thumb any fan of a playoff team knows about their opponent's stars like if Westbrook shoots 20-25 jumpers, the other team will likely win, or if you're playing against the Warriors you want to invite Harrison Barnes, Draymond or Iguodala to shoot? I'm starting to think opposing coaches and scouts have figured out they want the ball in the hands of Lou and Harrell (who can't trade 3balls) the majority of the closing minutes of a game. Rivers can't see it from pure loyalty, from being too close with his guys.

Interesting points about the Lou/Shamet/Harrell combination and defense. Making up for three players on defense is too much though. Ideally you only want to be making up for one guy, and at most two. If there are more players on the floor to make up for than there are guys anchoring the defense, then it's very unlikely those lineups will consistently perform well on defense.

Or if you do have to make up for more than two guys on defense, one of those guys probably shouldn't be your big.

All that said, I don't ever feel it is fair to evaluate with perception and no data. I've been eyeing Harrell's on/off Drtg all season to see how the team performs on defense with him on the court (while of course understanding that he's not the only factor).

As of this moment:
Harrell on: 108.2 Drtg
Harrell off: 107.2 Drtg

Defense is a little bit better when he's off, but not significant, and who else he's playing with factors in.

What was evident before and is no longer evident is the offensive boost with him vs without.

At this moment:
Harrell on: 113.5 Ortg
Harrell off: 113.0 Ortg

This means that as of now, Harrell net on/off is -0.5, this does not mean he is bad or negative or anything like that. What it does mean is that the team so far is performing just as well (0.5 is such a small difference) with him on the court than without.

Zubac is obviously the big question when it comes to who should be playing instead.

Zubac on: 107.1 Drtg
Zubac off: 108.2 Drtg

Zubac on: 113.4 Ortg
Zubac off: 113.2 Drtg

His NetRtg is, +1.3. Small differences, there's some noise there, but at the least we can theorize that it's pretty much a wash as to which on is on the court at this moment. This gives great support to those who are calling for a greater use of Zubac, especially in moments where Harrell is playing long extended minutes and maybe starts to look winded or unable to give second and third efforts.

There's nothing in his play or the numbers suggesting that the team would start bleeding points if Zubac played more and more consistently, especially to give Harrell a breather. Now of course on/off data is just one piece, it's not taking into account teammates. Zubac plays more (most) of his minutes with better defenders than Harrell does, but then Harrell plays more minutes against bench lineups than Zubac does and those lineups are more often inferior on offense though maybe not on defense to their starter counterparts.

Good analysis, rather than opinions and rancid emotions, LOL. But put Zubac out there with the second team instead of the first and you'll see everything including his numbers go to hell.

His numbers are good with the first team because most of those minutes are with Kawhi, who makes everybody look good. And as you saw in a typical case like in Boston when he's having a bad game, we started getting killed at the beginning of the 3rd quarter and Doc gave him the hook. This not only preserved Zu's stats [although he was still a team-worst minus-13 for the game] but also it stopped the bleeding on the court.

Trezz was the only reason we were still in that game, that and Lou's 35 points. And yet this game thread turns into bashing them. Unreal.

That’s of course the second question, and maybe a harder one to figure out, or maybe not. One way we can attempt to hypothesize is look at two and three man lineups such as Kawhi/Zubac vs Kawhi/Harrell and Lou/Zubac vs Lou/Harrell and Kawhi/George/Zubac vs Kawhi/George/Harrell and try and get a feel for what’s happening there. Of course sample sizes might not be sufficient to make conclusions. Here’s some of that.

With Leonard:
Zubac: 698 mins, 112.5 Ortg, 105.3 Drtg, +7.2 NetRtg
Harrell: 635 mins, 116.8 Ortg, 100.4 Drtg, +16.5 NetRtg

With Williams:
Zubac: 299 mins, 103.1 Ortg, 107.2 Drtg, -4.2 NetRtg
Harrell: 1222 mins, 110.9 Ortg, 106.5 Drtg, +4.4 NetRtg

With Leonard and George:
Zubac: 355 mins, 114.7 Ortg, 104.9 Drtg, +9.8 NetRtg
Harrell: 199 mins, 109.7 Ortg, 97.4 Drtg, +12.3 NetRtg

So the first thing to notice is that when they are on the floor with Kawhi, a combination that has good and similar sample sizes for both, the units with Harrell is really moping the floor with the units that have Zubac. This is certainly a good argument for the coaching staffs use of Harrell. That unit is also 5 points/100 better on defense.

Second is that when you isolate each with Williams, we see that Harrell is actually still winning on both ends, but also that Zubac does not provide enough offensive help and there’s a drastic drop off offensively. Overall there’s a 8.2 point/100 difference in team production, and again, defensively, you’re still getting a better result with Harrell. Large discrepancy in sample size here though.

Now we look at with both George and Leonard, and we see something different offensively, we get a drop there, and maybe surprising to some, but defensively again, the lineups with Harrell win by a large margin, this time 7.5 pts/100 better on defense, and still having a better NetRtg despite being inferior on offense.

That’s a lot of data pointing in one direction and should certainly be analyzed and taken into account.

The Bench Lineups
In terms of the bench struggling defensively, SlayrofDynasties mentioning of the 3 man combination of Williams/Shamet/Harrell is telling, and obviously it makes sense. Two smaller guards like that can be trouble on defense depending on who the players are. With Williams, Shamet will get forced to guard less favourable matchups for him, reducing his defensive effectiveness, and Williams is just not a good defender either way.

Williams/Harrell/Shamet: 460 mins, 110.0 Ortg, 110.9 Drtg, -1.0 NetRtg

BUT, If we add Leonard to the Williams/Shamet combo:
Williams/Leonard/Shamet: 249 mins, 112.9 Ortg, 107.5 Drtg, +5.3 NetRtg

So Kawhi is able to balance out that combination when he plays with them.

Okay, what about having Leonard on with Williams and Harrell?
Leonard/Williams/Harrell: 464 mins, 114.8 Ortg, 98.8 Drtg, +16.0 NetRtg

The lineups with Leonard/Williams/Harrell is actually one of the strongest 3 man combinations on the team. So Kawhi has been a balancing force for the Williams/Harrell combo in a whole season sense, they are elite both on offense and defense for their 464 minutes. If we look at 3 man lineups with 150+ mins, out of the top 15 in Drtg, Harrell is part of 7 of them. In the top 20, he’s part of 10 of the 20. Zubac on the other hand is part of just 1 of the top 15, and that is 12th, and just two in the top 20. Harrell is part of the best 3 man unit with 150+ minutes, Beverley/Leonard/Harrell (246 mins, 122.5 Ortg, 91.1 Drtg, +31.4 NetRtg).


Since January
Piggy backing off the other thread about Williams and Harrell in the New Year, since January:

With Leonard:
Zubac: 293 mins, 115.9 Ortg, 110.5 Drtg, +5.5 NetRtg
Harrell: 225 mins, 120.5 Ortg, 108.8 Drtg, +11.8 NetRtg

With Williams:
Zubac: 121 mins, 103.0 Ortg, 109.3 Drtg, -6.3 NetRtg
Harrell: 456 mins, 110.2 Ortg, 111.7 Drtg, -1.5 NetRtg

With George and Leonard:
Zubac: 83 mins, 114.0 Ortg, 110.7 Drtg, +3.3 NetRtg
Harrell: 32 mins, 113.6 Ortg, 102.9 Drtg, +10.7 NetRtg

Williams/Leonard/Harrell: 171 mins, 118.4 Ortg, 107.6 Drtg, +10.8 NetRtg

I’ll have to say that I did not necessarily expect the numbers to look like this, but if we’re using lineup data and normalizing to an extent for who is on the court with the bigs (Zubac vs Harrell), lineups with Harrell are winning by a landslide when it comes to defense and overall net per possession production. This is both for the season as a whole and since the start of the new year.

So even in that sample size since January, you’re still getting a better result both offensive and defensively when you pair Kawhi and Harrell vs pairing Kawhi and Zubac. Playing either with Williams suggest that you are still getting a better overall result with Harrell, and then combined with the w/Leonard and w/George+Leonard data suggests that Harrell on his own is not giving an inferior defensive result to Zubac, but it is the pieces around them making the difference. The data is actually leaning towards Harrell giving a superior defensive contribution altogether, though it is not comprehensive and complete data to make a definitive statement like that. We also see that the Williams/Leonard/Harrell lineup even in January has been performing very well.

[50CalClips]

We're f&cken Coachless.

driveby scapegoating is bogus, bro

please do tell us what you would have done instead

coaching is the only reason we were ever in this game starting with pulling Zubac for Trezz [minus-13] after we fell behind by 10 within 3 minutes of the 3rd quarter

Trezz played 44 minutes and finished plus+4 with 24 points and 13 rebounds

what magic trick would you have pulled out of your hat?

tell us, Mr. Wizard


the floor's all yours

me, I think this was one of our best games of the year and I'm not gonna douchebag anybody about it

Just an honest assessment.