MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD

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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#341 » by mysticOscar » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:16 pm

freethedevil wrote:
so_bored wrote:This thread is so silly.

Yet you commented. Probably because your idol's been debunked. :(

Lebron is jordan+longetivty and kareem+peak

Jordan is

Russell with half the winning and accolades
Kareem with less winning
and
Lebron without longetivty.


Jordan is the bootleg version of all the other goat candidates. Lebron is the hybrid. One has a compelling case, the other's only works when you act like half of nba history didn't happen.


Sorry to rein on ur parade...but Jordan was even > than combining Lebron dominance individually + having gsw type of of success.

But I understand ur a Lebron fan
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#342 » by KGtabake » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:18 pm

OdomFan wrote:The only thing truly super about those 90s Bulls teams was the Triangle system they played. It's what brought both 3 peat rosters together.

What Helped MJ become a better leader, and it helped Pippen develop into the great number 2 option he became. It's what won them 72 in 96, and 69 a year later along with the championships. Phil Jackson and the coaching staff deserves more credit. The number 1 thing that puts MJ over Lebron for me is the fact that he let his coach do their job and he learned from it.

As good as Lebron was at 18 years old, I still think 2 years of college hoops would have helped him become even better. Same with Kobe, KG, Dwight and all of them that went pro straight out of High School. It was their rightful decision to make, but if you ask me it cost them some development that could have led to even more success. However we will never truly know.



We do know that Luka Doncic time in europe made him more ready to compete at the highest level than any other prospect in the past few years. He was training and playing pro ball at an age that most kids are getting out of High School.
Another example(not of this level ofc) is Malcolm Brogdon. Recently i read on a Pacers related subject that Brogdon stayed in College for 4 years. When i first watched this guy the first thing that stood out was that his game seemed rounded and matured. He was playing like he was 30 years old. I don't think it was an accident after i read his story.
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Re: LeBron Vs. Jordan Debate - Scientific FACTS 

Post#343 » by SecondTake » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:16 pm

freethedevil wrote:
SecondTake wrote:
freethedevil wrote:Russell would have more fmvp's. jordan's still second best. If you want to ignore that because the award didn't exist at the time, we can always just remember that two players have been offically voted as the goat. Jordan wasn't one of them.


Russel was playing in a time when guys were smoking at the half.

Jordan played against weaker talent and in expansion, He too is irrelevant.

:(


Wrong, Jordan played against comparable talent (maybe a bit less) but on the flip side carried one of the worst championship teams ever to 6 championships.
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Re: Reminder: Russell is 11- Kareem is 6-4, MJ's only 6-0. 

Post#344 » by Prokorov » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:56 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
So would Russell, had he played in that fictional universe.

Well, 1 or 2 more championships. :)


he did. in '57 there were 8 teams. 5 of them with losing records. only one team over .550


I was referring to the claim that "most of the talent was concentrated" onto the Celtics.

That said, for the couple of years that Russell and Heinsohn were in the league and Wilt, West, Baylor, Robertson et al. weren't, the Celtics talent was indeed a nicely large minority of the whole.


from '57-'59 you could argue 5 of the top 10 players in the league including the top 2-3 were on the celtics.

I'd rate lebrons 2017 loss to the warriors over russells '57 title
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Re: Reminder: Russell is 11- Kareem is 6-4, MJ's only 6-0. 

Post#345 » by Gooner » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:58 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
he did. in '57 there were 8 teams. 5 of them with losing records. only one team over .550


I was referring to the claim that "most of the talent was concentrated" onto the Celtics.

That said, for the couple of years that Russell and Heinsohn were in the league and Wilt, West, Baylor, Robertson et al. weren't, the Celtics talent was indeed a nicely large minority of the whole.


from '57-'59 you could argue 5 of the top 10 players in the league including the top 2-3 were on the celtics.

I'd rate lebrons 2017 loss to the warriors over russells '57 title


Those Warriors were not unbeatable, Rockets almost breat them. LeBron doesn't get a passs for that loss, and certainly not the extra credit in comparison to other all time greats like Russell.
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Re: Reminder: Russell is 11- Kareem is 6-4, MJ's only 6-0. 

Post#346 » by Prokorov » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:01 pm

Gooner wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
I was referring to the claim that "most of the talent was concentrated" onto the Celtics.

That said, for the couple of years that Russell and Heinsohn were in the league and Wilt, West, Baylor, Robertson et al. weren't, the Celtics talent was indeed a nicely large minority of the whole.


from '57-'59 you could argue 5 of the top 10 players in the league including the top 2-3 were on the celtics.

I'd rate lebrons 2017 loss to the warriors over russells '57 title


Those Warriors were not unbeatable, Rockets almost breat them. LeBron doesn't get a passs for that loss, and certainly not the extra credit in comparison to other all time greats like Russell.


If the warriors were "beatable" as 2 time champs with Curry/klay/dray/durant than what exactly does that make the St. Louis hawks?

I'm sorry, but it took russell 7 games to get past a 34-38 losing team in the finals.
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Re: LeBron Vs. Jordan Debate - Scientific FACTS 

Post#347 » by OdomFan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:41 pm

SecondTake wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
SecondTake wrote:
Russel was playing in a time when guys were smoking at the half.

Jordan played against weaker talent and in expansion, He too is irrelevant.

:(


Wrong, Jordan played against comparable talent (maybe a bit less) but on the flip side carried one of the worst championship teams ever to 6 championships.

I don't consider them a Super Team at all, but they're also Far Far from one of the Worst teams to win championships. Those Bulls were a Good team at the least. With great leadership and coaching. All the Role players gave it their all night in and night out. They all deserve respect.
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Re: Reminder: Russell is 11- Kareem is 6-4, MJ's only 6-0. 

Post#348 » by Quattro » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:43 pm

:roll:
freethedevil wrote:
Quattro wrote:Jordan didn't have sustained excellence? Really?

Me being a Knicks fan doesn't change that you seem to struggle with counting. Russell and Kareem have won much more, hence "sustained excellent", Lebron has stayed at his peak prime level much longer, hence "sustained excellence." Jordan lacks sustained excellence when compared to goats, hence he isn't the goat. :(


Jordan was in his prime for his entire career other than the 2 years he played after his second retirement. I don’t struggle with math. You struggle with reality.
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Re: Reminder: Russell is 11- Kareem is 6-4, MJ's only 6-0. 

Post#349 » by 70sFan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:06 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
he did. in '57 there were 8 teams. 5 of them with losing records. only one team over .550


I was referring to the claim that "most of the talent was concentrated" onto the Celtics.

That said, for the couple of years that Russell and Heinsohn were in the league and Wilt, West, Baylor, Robertson et al. weren't, the Celtics talent was indeed a nicely large minority of the whole.


from '57-'59 you could argue 5 of the top 10 players in the league including the top 2-3 were on the celtics.

I'd rate lebrons 2017 loss to the warriors over russells '57 title

Name me these top 10s from 1957, 1958 and 1959.
Keep in mind that being top 10 in smaller league is not the same as being top 10 today.
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Re: Reminder: Russell is 11- Kareem is 6-4, MJ's only 6-0. 

Post#350 » by 70sFan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:10 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
from '57-'59 you could argue 5 of the top 10 players in the league including the top 2-3 were on the celtics.

I'd rate lebrons 2017 loss to the warriors over russells '57 title


Those Warriors were not unbeatable, Rockets almost breat them. LeBron doesn't get a passs for that loss, and certainly not the extra credit in comparison to other all time greats like Russell.


If the warriors were "beatable" as 2 time champs with Curry/klay/dray/durant than what exactly does that make the St. Louis hawks?

I'm sorry, but it took russell 7 games to get past a 34-38 losing team in the finals.

You compare record from 8 teams league to record from 30 teams league. Being below 50% didn't mean that you were a bad team back then, league was far more balanced.
This terrible Hawks team had also quite a few HoFers but people only mention Russell's teammates.

Also, why do you not count Russell's work in 1960s in stronger and deeper league without ATG supporting cast?
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#351 » by 70sFan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:12 pm

Oh, also - Pippen was better than any Russell teammate in 1957-59 period.
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#352 » by Lepramaniac » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:14 pm

Dude, Jordan dominated the league in ways Lebron can only dream of. Yes you can knock on MJ's early years in his career for not achieving much, but once he clicked on all cylinders, he was unstoppable. The only point you can make in favor of Lebron against MJ is longevity. but if we talk about peak and domination, then Jordan is way, way ahead of Lebron: he dominated the league for almost a decade straight, won 3 championship straight TWICE and could have won 8 straight if he hadn't retired for 2 years to play baseball. Not only that, when you watched his play you KNEW that somehow he was always going to come out on top, he had a special aura and the strongest will to win ever seen in a basketball player.
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#353 » by 70sFan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:18 pm

so_bored wrote:This thread is so silly. Just blind teenage lebron worshipers dying to prop their idols. The fact is it doesn't matter how much these blind kids yap about their favorite idol on here. Jordan is the consensus goat by a wide margin and it won't change anytime soon. As a matter of fact lebron isn't even cemented as the #2 goat by majority. Many casual fans even have Kobe above lebron. We even have many former and current peers of both Kobe and lebron claiming Kobe to be better. It's not even a worthy of a discussion at this point. The fact is majority of basketball fans have seen lebron fail way too many times despite his attempts to stack the deck in his favor multiple times. His legacy is already set. These blind kids are just wasting their time.

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So people who believe that Kareem or Russell were better are blind teenager worshipers?
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#354 » by 70sFan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:22 pm

Lepramaniac wrote:Dude, Jordan dominated the league in ways Lebron can only dream of. Yes you can knock on MJ's early years in his career for not achieving much, but once he clicked on all cylinders, he was unstoppable. The only point you can make in favor of Lebron against MJ is longevity. but if we talk about peak and domination, then Jordan is way, way ahead of Lebron: he dominated the league for almost a decade straight, won 3 championship straight TWICE and could have won 8 straight if he hadn't retired for 2 years to play baseball. Not only that, when you watched his play you KNEW that somehow he was always going to come out on top, he had a special aura and the strongest will to win ever seen in a basketball player.

Stronger will to win than Bill Russell? He had to be worse basketball player then...
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#355 » by BayWarrior » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:36 pm

Threads like this simply need a poll. GOAT MJ, Lebron or other (comment). Popular opinion is probably right on this one.
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Re: Reminder: Russell is 11- Kareem is 6-4, MJ's only 6-0. 

Post#356 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:39 pm

Prokorov wrote:I'm sorry, but it took russell 7 games to get past a 34-38 losing team in the finals.


In a league he'd been playing in for less than one full season, on a team with another rookie starter.

Anyhow, if your team is the best in the league, why does it matter how even or skewed the other teams are vs. each other?
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#357 » by Repeat 3-peat » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:50 pm

BayWarrior wrote:Threads like this simply need a poll. GOAT MJ, Lebron or other (comment). Popular opinion is probably right on this one.

It's not RealGM but MJ is still viewed as the GOAT by the majority.

Most Americans think Michael Jordan is the 'GOAT' over LeBron James, and it's not even close
https://www.businessinsider.com/jordan-lebron-goat-debate-americans-jordan-2019-3

Spoiler:
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Anonymous poll of NBA players has LeBron far behind Jordan in GOAT debate
https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2019/04/08/anonymous-poll-of-nba-players-has-lebron-far-behind-jordan-in-goat-debate/
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#358 » by 70sFan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:15 pm

Yeah, because majority is always right :nonono:
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Re: MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD 

Post#359 » by Lalouie » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:31 pm

The4thHorseman wrote:
Lalouie wrote:
The4thHorseman wrote:That OKC team that had 3 All-NBA players? KD who was the reigning 3x scoring champion, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka who led the league in blocks and was runner-up for DPOY?? Then throw in 6MOTY James Harden also.

That's the really, really young OKC team that steamrolled their way to the Finals with a 12-3 record? That's who you're referring to?


you can't be serious. the nba rings do not go to youth - IT SIMPLY DOESN'T. just look at it's history. there was only one team with okc's youth and that was walton's team. young teams act young.

So Vegas didn't do their homework? They didn't know that youth don't win titles in the NBA?

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2012-nba-finals-thunder-favored-by-vegas-oddsmakers/


okc lost 4-1. what do you think!!

LMAO. 4-1 is practically a sweep in the finals,,,,THE FINALS. you know mj's bulls had only one 4-1 series. so yeah, they didn't do their homework
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Re: Reminder: Russell is 11- Kareem is 6-4, MJ's only 6-0. 

Post#360 » by Picasso » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:43 pm

marcush wrote:
Picasso wrote:
marcush wrote:Duncan and Kobe have 5. You can slot them in above Lebron also.


And Rober hurry has more than both of them while hitting clutch shots and multiple game winners to win those championships. Hurry was so great he won a championship for Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, and Hakeem. Robert Horry, the G.O.AT.

You rate Horry as GOAT. Good for you going against the usual nominations.

I personally wouldn’t rate a low usage role player like Horry in the same level as Duncan, Kobe etc but these ratings are obviously subjective. Each to their own.


Well according to the logic used when using your own argument about rings, yes he is. You mention Kobe and Duncan however without Horry and his clutch play and goat ring level, they wouldnt have their rings. Right. Thata how this is done right. Rings is what matters above stats and horry has more than both. So that means hes better right? By your logic atleast.
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