Honest question about Tatum

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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#81 » by claycarver » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:00 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:...What matters is performance on the big stage. Anyone can drop 30 on a bad team in a rout. There are plenty of empty stats in the NBA. It''s when you drop 30 against good defenders and make game winning plays when the season is on the line-- that's the way to become top 10. Kawhi has done that, Tatum hasn't. But Tatum is 21, so give him time.


How much time? 3 days from Curm's post.

Freaking Nostradamus over here. Spooky.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#82 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:08 am

Scalabrine wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:In terms of rough numbers 25/8/4 on good efficiency gets him into the convo. More so if he is leading the Celtics to a top 3 record in the conference and playing good defense.


Is he definitely their best player though?


I think so.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#83 » by Curmudgeon » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:48 am

claycarver wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:...What matters is performance on the big stage. Anyone can drop 30 on a bad team in a rout. There are plenty of empty stats in the NBA. It''s when you drop 30 against good defenders and make game winning plays when the season is on the line-- that's the way to become top 10. Kawhi has done that, Tatum hasn't. But Tatum is 21, so give him time.


How much time? 3 days from Curm's post.

Freaking Nostradamus over here. Spooky.


Nah. National television isn't the big stage. Conference and NBA finals are the big stage. Having said that, Tatum played a great game against the Clippers. On top of the box score stats, Tatum lost at least five assists when Hayward and Smart bricked shots after receiving passes from him.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#84 » by sportfan6197 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:57 pm

HoopsterJones wrote::wink:
BillTheGOAT wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:He would need to get his PER above 20 for starters (PER above 24 is top 10 territory).

Let’s see if he can keep up his production against better teams too.
Enes Kanter has a PER of 23.8 so thanks for confirming Kanter is a top 10 player.


25 PER is top 10, look it up. Kanter doesn’t qualify also because of only averaging 18.9 MPG.

Tatum is sitting at 19.5 PER. That’s not top 10.

imagine thinking PER is a stat to judge top 10 players off of lol

PER is a counting stat
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#85 » by SecondTake » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:37 pm

BillTheGOAT wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:He would need to get his PER above 20 for starters (PER above 24 is top 10 territory).

Let’s see if he can keep up his production against better teams too.
Enes Kanter has a PER of 23.8 so thanks for confirming Kanter is a top 10 player.


He clearly said 24 or over, 23.8 is way under 24 last time I checked.

24 PER is pretty much a prerequisite for top 10 status. If you hit 24 then you look at other factors to weed out the chaff.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#86 » by Gooner » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:45 pm

I always said he had the potential to be a top 10 player, probably top 5 in the future, and I was against the idea of trading him for AD, but he is still not top 10 at the moment. There is room to improve at the age of 21-22.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#87 » by HoopsterJones » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:29 pm

sportfan6197 wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote::wink:
BillTheGOAT wrote:Enes Kanter has a PER of 23.8 so thanks for confirming Kanter is a top 10 player.


25 PER is top 10, look it up. Kanter doesn’t qualify also because of only averaging 18.9 MPG.

Tatum is sitting at 19.5 PER. That’s not top 10.

imagine thinking PER is a stat to judge top 10 players off of lol

PER is a counting stat


It’s not the sole criteria for judging top 10 players. However, the consensus top 10 players all have a PER above 24-25. Not one had a PER below that. Has been that way for the past 5+ seasons. Seriously, look it up.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#88 » by VanWest82 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:40 pm

Thought this thread might be about the sorry state of his beard. That thing is truly awful.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#89 » by jfs1000d » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:41 pm

HoopsterJones wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Leaving out Tatum for these lists:

Top 10 could be Giannis, LeBron, Kawhi, Davis, Embiid, Doncic, Jokic, Harden, KAT, Lillard

Then in next 15 could be Butler, Trae, Gobert, PG13, Siakam, Simmons, CP3, Middleton, Kemba, Middleton, Jrue, Lowry, Beal, Durant (healthy), Nurkic (healthy)

Who do you have Tatum above from this list of 25?


Doncic not top 10. KAT isn’t either, but I won’t put Tatum In Group 1.

As far as 10-25, that’s where Tatum is,

I put him above trae, Gobert. Siakim, cp3, kemba, Middleton. Jrue, Lowry, Beal.

As far as his stats, he had a rough start to the year finishing At the rim. He has made a big change in driving to the rim in the last 6 weeks. He is shooting better at the rim.

Tatum is also 21. Siakim 26.

And I love trae young’s raw basketball ability, but he is putting up huge numbers on an awful team. I think his game and stats don’t matter. Beal at least he played in playoffs, but his stats are empty too.

As far as Middleton. He is a product of Giannis. Middleton is a a great shooter, but he isnt a No. 1. Neither is Lowry, Gilbert, jrue.


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Doncic is having a top 10 season.
28.8 PPG 9.5 RPG 8.7 APG.

Tatum is 21 and Siakam is 25. Tatum turns 22 before Siakam turns 26.

Middleton is having an excellent shooting season. Far better than Tatum is having. Defensively Tatum is superior.


Doncic is terrific. But we are in an inflated era of basketball stats.

The Celtics have a top 5 defense and are allowing 105 ppg. 15 years ago, teams were holding people to 89 ppg.

We have had an explosion in triple double players and Westbrook averages it for an entire season.

Doncic should be third team, all nba, don’t get me wrong, but his stats have to be taken into account as a product of inflation too.




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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#90 » by LipSkinMatter » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:52 pm

BillTheGOAT wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:He would need to get his PER above 20 for starters (PER above 24 is top 10 territory).

Let’s see if he can keep up his production against better teams too.
Enes Kanter has a PER of 23.8 so thanks for confirming Kanter is a top 10 player.


Terrible counter argument, pls be better
facothomas22 wrote:How am I disrespecting the Lakers? There's several of reasons to believe that the Lakers may not even be a fringe playoff team,let alone a actual playoff team.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#91 » by HoopsterJones » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:58 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
Doncic not top 10. KAT isn’t either, but I won’t put Tatum In Group 1.

As far as 10-25, that’s where Tatum is,

I put him above trae, Gobert. Siakim, cp3, kemba, Middleton. Jrue, Lowry, Beal.

As far as his stats, he had a rough start to the year finishing At the rim. He has made a big change in driving to the rim in the last 6 weeks. He is shooting better at the rim.

Tatum is also 21. Siakim 26.

And I love trae young’s raw basketball ability, but he is putting up huge numbers on an awful team. I think his game and stats don’t matter. Beal at least he played in playoffs, but his stats are empty too.

As far as Middleton. He is a product of Giannis. Middleton is a a great shooter, but he isnt a No. 1. Neither is Lowry, Gilbert, jrue.


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Doncic is having a top 10 season.
28.8 PPG 9.5 RPG 8.7 APG.

Tatum is 21 and Siakam is 25. Tatum turns 22 before Siakam turns 26.

Middleton is having an excellent shooting season. Far better than Tatum is having. Defensively Tatum is superior.


Doncic is terrific. But we are in an inflated era of basketball stats.

The Celtics have a top 5 defense and are allowing 105 ppg. 15 years ago, teams were holding people to 89 ppg.

We have had an explosion in triple double players and Westbrook averages it for an entire season.

Doncic should be third team, all nba, don’t get me wrong, but his stats have to be taken into account as a product of inflation too.




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I agree the stats are a bit more inflated because of the emphasis on pace of play, the shot clock reset to 14, 2 for 1 end of quarter play, etc.

Comparing PPG from 15 years ago can be explained by the rule changes, the increase in FT rates, and enormous increase in 3 PT shot attempts.

Doncic is not 3rd team. He should be 1st team or 2nd team and be in the top 5 in MVP votes if he stays healthy. Name me the 4 guards you have ahead of him that drops him to 3rd team.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#92 » by Zenzibar » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:04 pm

HoopsterJones wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:
Doncic is having a top 10 season.
28.8 PPG 9.5 RPG 8.7 APG.

Tatum is 21 and Siakam is 25. Tatum turns 22 before Siakam turns 26.

Middleton is having an excellent shooting season. Far better than Tatum is having. Defensively Tatum is superior.


Doncic is terrific. But we are in an inflated era of basketball stats.

The Celtics have a top 5 defense and are allowing 105 ppg. 15 years ago, teams were holding people to 89 ppg.

We have had an explosion in triple double players and Westbrook averages it for an entire season.

Doncic should be third team, all nba, don’t get me wrong, but his stats have to be taken into account as a product of inflation too.




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I agree the stats are a bit more inflated because of the emphasis on pace of play, the shot clock reset to 14, 2 for 1 end of quarter play, etc.

Comparing PPG from 15 years ago can be explained by the rule changes, the increase in FT rates, and enormous increase in 3 PT shot attempts.

Doncic is not 3rd team. He should be 1st team or 2nd team and be in the top 5 in MVP votes if he stays healthy. Name me the 4 guards you have ahead of him that drops him to 3rd team.


The crazy thing is that Doncic is a forward. Given that that position is lead by Kwahii, Lebron, I have to agree that Doncic would be 2nd team IMO.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#93 » by trending » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:21 pm

consistency. with kemba and haywood on the court.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#94 » by HoopsterJones » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:25 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
Doncic is terrific. But we are in an inflated era of basketball stats.

The Celtics have a top 5 defense and are allowing 105 ppg. 15 years ago, teams were holding people to 89 ppg.

We have had an explosion in triple double players and Westbrook averages it for an entire season.

Doncic should be third team, all nba, don’t get me wrong, but his stats have to be taken into account as a product of inflation too.




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I agree the stats are a bit more inflated because of the emphasis on pace of play, the shot clock reset to 14, 2 for 1 end of quarter play, etc.

Comparing PPG from 15 years ago can be explained by the rule changes, the increase in FT rates, and enormous increase in 3 PT shot attempts.

Doncic is not 3rd team. He should be 1st team or 2nd team and be in the top 5 in MVP votes if he stays healthy. Name me the 4 guards you have ahead of him that drops him to 3rd team.


The crazy thing is that Doncic is a forward. Given that that position is lead by Kwahii, Lebron, I have to agree that Doncic would be 2nd team IMO.


He was voted in as a Guard to the All Star game. It would be odd that he would be considered a Forward for All NBA considerations.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#95 » by ShotCreator » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:27 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:
jfs1000d wrote:
Doncic not top 10. KAT isn’t either, but I won’t put Tatum In Group 1.

As far as 10-25, that’s where Tatum is,

I put him above trae, Gobert. Siakim, cp3, kemba, Middleton. Jrue, Lowry, Beal.

As far as his stats, he had a rough start to the year finishing At the rim. He has made a big change in driving to the rim in the last 6 weeks. He is shooting better at the rim.

Tatum is also 21. Siakim 26.

And I love trae young’s raw basketball ability, but he is putting up huge numbers on an awful team. I think his game and stats don’t matter. Beal at least he played in playoffs, but his stats are empty too.

As far as Middleton. He is a product of Giannis. Middleton is a a great shooter, but he isnt a No. 1. Neither is Lowry, Gilbert, jrue.


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Doncic is having a top 10 season.
28.8 PPG 9.5 RPG 8.7 APG.

Tatum is 21 and Siakam is 25. Tatum turns 22 before Siakam turns 26.

Middleton is having an excellent shooting season. Far better than Tatum is having. Defensively Tatum is superior.


Doncic is terrific. But we are in an inflated era of basketball stats.

The Celtics have a top 5 defense and are allowing 105 ppg. 15 years ago, teams were holding people to 89 ppg.

We have had an explosion in triple double players and Westbrook averages it for an entire season.

Doncic should be third team, all nba, don’t get me wrong, but his stats have to be taken into account as a product of inflation too.




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Other players are not playing 15 years ago. They play in the same era.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#96 » by Marvin Martian » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:35 pm

Tatum plays on a stacked team. The gap between him, Kemba, Hayward, and Brown isn't that big. Before his recent outburst, it felt like Tatum, Brown and Hayward were all playing at a similar level
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#97 » by Lalouie » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:37 pm

jdm_dc_fan wrote:Tatum was named player of the week in the east. His numbers were 30/7/4 50%FG 54% 3PT with amazing defense. With Tatums defense taken into account also his offensive output and versatility blossoming and a true 6’8” wing; What numbers would Tatum need to put up on a playoff team to be considered a top ten player? Boston being a top 2-3 team in the east with impact of winning not inflated stats on a losing team.

What do you need Tatum to do to be in the top 10?


he'd have to lead bos to a ring. that would 1UP luka, simmons, embiid, giannis, ad, harden, westbrook, cp3, pg, jokic, and anyone i missed with no ring
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#98 » by Jurry » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:48 pm

VanWest82 wrote:Thought this thread might be about the sorry state of his beard. That thing is truly awful.


Its looking better now than it used to, he's growing into it. But yeah it's still gnarly. I like to think of it as a throwback tribute to Pierce.
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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#99 » by bisme37 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:15 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
claycarver wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:...What matters is performance on the big stage. Anyone can drop 30 on a bad team in a rout. There are plenty of empty stats in the NBA. It''s when you drop 30 against good defenders and make game winning plays when the season is on the line-- that's the way to become top 10. Kawhi has done that, Tatum hasn't. But Tatum is 21, so give him time.


How much time? 3 days from Curm's post.

Freaking Nostradamus over here. Spooky.


Nah. National television isn't the big stage. Conference and NBA finals are the big stage. Having said that, Tatum played a great game against the Clippers. On top of the box score stats, Tatum lost at least five assists when Hayward and Smart bricked shots after receiving passes from him.


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Re: Honest question about Tatum 

Post#100 » by bisme37 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:17 pm

Tatum best player on the floor in both games against the Clippers this year.

RealGM: If he keeps improving maybe one day he can be a poor man's Paul George. If not, Rudy Gay.

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