MJ VS LEBRON VS WHOEVER THREAD

jwood255 · Post #381 » by **jwood255** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:44 pm

Michael Jordan........... with Lebron as a DISTANT second.

Here are MY reasons why Lebron is 2nd (you don't have to agree, but this is why MJ is #1 to me):

1) I only count 1 real ring (2016). The Heatles rings are like Durant's GSW rings. Heavy asterisks. Lebron couldn't get it done so he formed an all star team to win. GOAT? Nah. And even that team lost twice. They batted .500. If Lebron wins again this year, it'll have another asterisk. Run to the Lakers and get friggin Anthony Davis to join you? Bruh...he missed the playoffs last year.

2) Stats don't tell the whole story. Lebron's stats are very impressive. I think he's the 2nd best player of all time. However, ever since he joined the league, it was clear that Jordan (and to an extent, Kobe) were doing what they were doing based on SKILL. Lebron was mainly bulldozing over people. He couldn't shoot yet. But he was putting up impressive numbers. Watching the games, I always thought, well if Jordan had Lebron's body, he'd destroy even harder cuz of the skill. For nearly the first decade of Lebron's career, I wasn't impressed cuz he was just a bulldozer. Now I give him lots of respect cuz his skill started to match the hype.

3) 6 for 6 will always beat 3 for 9. Once Michael had a team good enough to go to the Finals, he got it done. Lebron had teams good enough to go to the Finals but has failed twice as much as he's won. And in my eyes, he's either 1 for 5 or 1+2* for 9. That's not better than Michael.

4) The Eastern conference Lebron had was weak sauce. He was playing on easy mode for most of his career. Which is probably why his Finals record sucks. Never should have made the Finals that often. In the Western Conference, he wouldn't have that many appearances.

When it's all said and done, Lebron will have some very impressive STATS. He might be a STAT goat in certain areas. But he's not the real GOAT.

That's Michael Jordan.

....and Lebron is #2 (still pretty damn good)

Marty McFly · Post #382 » by **Marty McFly** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:45 pm

pwrshft99 · Post #383 » by **pwrshft99** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:49 pm

#FireGarPax

Salieri · Post #384 » by **Salieri** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:50 pm

Kareem for me, and I know not many people will agree with me but that's fine as my criteria is different than the usual.

Badbobby · Post #385 » by **Badbobby** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:56 pm

1993Playoffs wrote:LeBron is the best player I’ve seen. MJ in a close second

I feel LeBron is just more versatile on both ends. And has a higher ceiling (leading every player in every category while being by far the best defender vs a 73 win team. ). It’s things like that.

This explanation

70sFan · Post #386 » by **70sFan** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:07 pm

I don't treat any GOAT debate without Bill Russell seriously...

70sFan · Post #387 » by **70sFan** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:07 pm

Salieri wrote:Kareem for me, and I know not many people will agree with me but that's fine as my criteria is different than the usual.

You have me on your side here

Pennebaker · Post #388 » by **Pennebaker** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:08 pm

These voters are behind the curve. They're still living in the year 2000.

LeBron is smarter, stronger, bigger, faster, better shooter, better passer, better leader, better winner, better coach, better GM, more clutch, more versatile with more heart and more love of the game.

LeBron can do everything Jordan can do, but Jordan cannot do everything LeBron can do.

LeBron can be a hall of famer at 5 positions. Jordan only 2.

LeBron can win in any city with various teammates and random coaches. Jordan only in Chicago with Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen.

LeBron James is also a better person than Michael Jordan. Bonus points.

As of right now, LeBron is objectively the greatest basketball player of all time.

Packbuckman · Post #389 » by **Packbuckman** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:08 pm

70sFan wrote:
Salieri wrote:Kareem for me, and I know not many people will agree with me but that's fine as my criteria is different than the usual.

You have me on your side here

Me too

70sFan · Post #390 » by **70sFan** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:11 pm

Pennebaker wrote:As of right now, LeBron is objectively the greatest basketball player of all time.

There is no thingas "objectively the greatest basketball player of all time". There are at least 4 players who have case as the number one and some consider others too.

Sgt Major · Post #391 » by **Sgt Major** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:11 pm

Optms · Post #392 » by **Optms** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:11 pm

70sFan wrote:I don't treat any GOAT debate without Bill Russell seriously...

Kareem was better. No debate.

Marty McFly · Post #393 » by **Marty McFly** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:14 pm

Kareem has gaudy stats, a **** ton of hardware, won on every level, longevity etc. both Michael and Kareem have twice as many titles as LeBron. Kareem had been more durable then both. Michael could have put this argument to rest if he didn't decide to retire young twice. Kareem is a compromise choice to me.

xdrta+ · Post #394 » by **xdrta+** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:16 pm

Pennebaker wrote:As of right now, LeBron is objectively the greatest basketball player of all time.

There is no such thing, obviously. Opinions do not "objective" make.

OdomFan · Post #395 » by **OdomFan** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:19 pm

Pennebaker wrote:These voters are behind the curve. They're still living in the year 2000.

LeBron is smarter, stronger, bigger, faster, better shooter, better passer, better leader, better winner, more clutch, more versatile with more heart and more love of the game.

LeBron can do everything Jordan can do, but Jordan cannot do everything LeBron can do.

LeBron can be a hall of famer at 5 positions. Jordan only 2.

LeBron can win in any city with various teammates and random coaches. Jordan only in Chicago with Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen.

LeBron James is also a better person than Michael Jordan. Bonus points.

As of right now, LeBron is objectively the greatest basketball player of all time.

I disagree with all that I put in Bold, and removed the unnecessary silliness, but hey, to each their own. MJ may not have been a playmaker like Lebron but he was a great passer in his own right, played the point guard role great in the one season that he was placed in it, but most importantly he went on to dominate the game far more than Lebron as a shooting guard which was his position at a time that each position actually meant something rather than the whole team being out there trying to be guards jacking up 3 after 3. You can have that boring "modern era".

1993Playoffs · Post #396 » by **1993Playoffs** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:23 pm

Optms wrote:
70sFan wrote:I don't treat any GOAT debate without Bill Russell seriously...

Kareem was better. No debate.

Russell was far better defensively

NoDopeOnSundays · Post #397 » by **NoDopeOnSundays** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:24 pm

Watch on YouTube

There isn't a player in the league today at that height nearly as quick or explosive. He is the GOAT.

70sFan · Post #398 » by **70sFan** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:26 pm

Optms wrote:
70sFan wrote:I don't treat any GOAT debate without Bill Russell seriously...

Kareem was better. No debate.

It's not that simple, it all depends on your criteria. I have Kareem on my AT list higher than Russell, but that doesn't mean there is no debate between them.

If anything, Bill Russell has the purest and simplest case for GOAT - he dominated his era more than anyone else, he was more consistent impact and effort-wise, ultimately he won rivaly against another top 10 player ever (something none of the rest candidates did), he won more than any basketball player in history of sport and he won two titles as a player coach. I don't have him as my GOAT because I value longevity heavily, but prime-wise nobody is as impressive as Russell. Winning 11 of 13 seasons (one lost because of injures) is surreal, people don't understand how unbelievable accomplishement it is.

Slim Charless · Post #399 » by **Slim Charless** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:35 pm

jwood255 wrote:Michael Jordan........... with Lebron as a DISTANT second.

Here are MY reasons why Lebron is 2nd (you don't have to agree, but this is why MJ is #1 to me):

1) I only count 1 real ring (2016). The Heatles rings are like Durant's GSW rings. Heavy asterisks. Lebron couldn't get it done so he formed an all star team to win. GOAT? Nah. And even that team lost twice. They batted .500. If Lebron wins again this year, it'll have another asterisk. Run to the Lakers and get friggin Anthony Davis to join you? Bruh...he missed the playoffs last year.

2) Stats don't tell the whole story. Lebron's stats are very impressive. I think he's the 2nd best player of all time. However, ever since he joined the league, it was clear that Jordan (and to an extent, Kobe) were doing what they were doing based on SKILL. Lebron was mainly bulldozing over people. He couldn't shoot yet. But he was putting up impressive numbers. Watching the games, I always thought, well if Jordan had Lebron's body, he'd destroy even harder cuz of the skill. For nearly the first decade of Lebron's career, I wasn't impressed cuz he was just a bulldozer. Now I give him lots of respect cuz his skill started to match the hype.

3) 6 for 6 will always beat 3 for 9. Once Michael had a team good enough to go to the Finals, he got it done. Lebron had teams good enough to go to the Finals but has failed twice as much as he's won. And in my eyes, he's either 1 for 5 or 1+2* for 9. That's not better than Michael.

4) The Eastern conference Lebron had was weak sauce. He was playing on easy mode for most of his career. Which is probably why his Finals record sucks. Never should have made the Finals that often. In the Western Conference, he wouldn't have that many appearances.

When it's all said and done, Lebron will have some very impressive STATS. He might be a STAT goat in certain areas. But he's not the real GOAT.

That's Michael Jordan.

....and Lebron is #2 (still pretty damn good)

These conversations about GOATs never include Scottie Pippen when discussing Mike. Pippen was easily one of the top 3 SFs ever and debatably the best defensive player in the history of the game. He almost always took the hardest assignment on the other team which allowed Mike (who was no slouch defensively himself) to take the lesser target and save energy for scoring. People need to take that into context when talking about these things.

You want to talk about how Lebron had it easy with the Heat teams but no mention of Scottie for Jordan. Mike wouldn't have had more then 3 chips w/o Pippen and this doesnt even bring up Rodman who was the best rebounder in the last 40 years and another monster defensive player. U cant **** on Bron grabbing AD and then just skip over the bulls getting Rodman. Mike was great obviously but w/o Pippen and Rodman he loses to PHX (for Scottie) and at least 1 of those Utah series.

themoneyteam2 · Post #400 » by **themoneyteam2** » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:38 pm

RIP Kobe wrote:where's the all of the above option?

This isn't a participation trophy like this cupcake generation is accustomed to.