2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[ATTL]

It's crazy how much christian wood has blown up this year. I liked him coming out and was happy when he was on our summer league team but he didn't get much of a look.

Has he just improved alot or did he never get a look in the right system?

[bwgood77]

Anyone know how to find this metric? Curious to see where Ayton is. It would be nice to see him climb this list.

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[WeekapaugGroove]

There's a forward who could play for the suns next season who averages more points, blocks, steals, shoots a better 3pt % than both Gordon or Lauri and is about an equal rebounder to both...... His name is Kelly Oubre.

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Yeah, if you expect the trends to continue, but with a lot of our frontcourt players out, it has helped with Oubre's rebounding (and he jumps in front of Ayton for the rebound some), then maybe. I like his energy though.

However, looking at their careers, Gordon has probably been the best player, followed by Lauri, even with their down years, and Kelly's up year http://bkref.com/tiny/l0puu

And if you go back and compare Gordon's 5th year (last year) and Lauri's last year before injury this year, and playing in Boylen's offense he hates, and compare them to Oubre this year, they are both far better rebounders http://bkref.com/tiny/l0puu and the 3 pt % is pretty close though Gordon still the better defender.

But it's all close, and with a lot of smaller ball, it might be the way to go with versatility. But I think it also comes down to how much money Kelly is looking for, and if it's over $20 million, I don't think it's worth it, even if you compare it to other overpaid players making $25 million a year, especially with the cap going down. But Lauri may want a lot of money anyway.

Ultimately, I don't think the Bulls will deal Lauri though, especially if they are making changes in their front office...their coach is surely gone this offseason. So then it would come down to who you would value more between Oubre and Gordon.

I'm not saying I'm out of finding a PF or wouldn't move Kelly but it is interesting when you start comparing numbers. As far as projecting forward I could see Kelly continue to grow and I kind of think the 3pt shooting could rise even more, he's always been a very raw player who was going to take time and he's got a nice looking shot. Rebounding is something I'm really not as worried about because I think Ayton is and will continue to be an elite rebounder.

You're right that contracts will matter. Now I expect Lauri probably wants the mini max or hell test RFA to try and find one.

Gordon's contract isn't too bad because it goes down each year. Not that I believe every trade rumor but I do believe the Magic would have been interested in a Kelly for Gordon swap, that would make a ton of sense for their roster moving forward. So assuming that was available and the suns turned it down that leads me to believe they aren't that worried about paying oubre because if they were then they should have did that deal. Oubre has been better than Gordon this season but their value overall is pretty similar.

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[bwgood77]

There's a forward who could play for the suns next season who averages more points, blocks, steals, shoots a better 3pt % than both Gordon or Lauri and is about an equal rebounder to both...... His name is Kelly Oubre.

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Yeah, if you expect the trends to continue, but with a lot of our frontcourt players out, it has helped with Oubre's rebounding (and he jumps in front of Ayton for the rebound some), then maybe. I like his energy though.

However, looking at their careers, Gordon has probably been the best player, followed by Lauri, even with their down years, and Kelly's up year http://bkref.com/tiny/l0puu

And if you go back and compare Gordon's 5th year (last year) and Lauri's last year before injury this year, and playing in Boylen's offense he hates, and compare them to Oubre this year, they are both far better rebounders http://bkref.com/tiny/l0puu and the 3 pt % is pretty close though Gordon still the better defender.

But it's all close, and with a lot of smaller ball, it might be the way to go with versatility. But I think it also comes down to how much money Kelly is looking for, and if it's over $20 million, I don't think it's worth it, even if you compare it to other overpaid players making $25 million a year, especially with the cap going down. But Lauri may want a lot of money anyway.

Ultimately, I don't think the Bulls will deal Lauri though, especially if they are making changes in their front office...their coach is surely gone this offseason. So then it would come down to who you would value more between Oubre and Gordon.

I'm not saying I'm out of finding a PF or wouldn't move Kelly but it is interesting when you start comparing numbers. As far as projecting forward I could see Kelly continue to grow and I kind of think the 3pt shooting could rise even more, he's always been a very raw player who was going to take time and he's got a nice looking shot. Rebounding is something I'm really not as worried about because I think Ayton is and will continue to be an elite rebounder.

You're right that contracts will matter. Now I expect Lauri probably wants the mini max or hell test RFA to try and find one.

Gordon's contract isn't too bad because it goes down each year. Not that I believe every trade rumor but I do believe the Magic would have been interested in a Kelly for Gordon swap, that would make a ton of sense for their roster moving forward. So assuming that was available and the suns turned it down that leads me to believe they aren't that worried about paying oubre because if they were then they should have did that deal. Oubre has been better than Gordon this season but their value overall is pretty similar.

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It might be one they would revisit in the summer. Ultimately they know what Oubre wanted this past summer and it's safe to assume he will want more on the next contract. I don't think I'd pay him more than Booker. If he just had some court vision and better team defense awareness, he would be good player, but he obviously doesn't see the whole floor on either side of the ball, whereas someone like Gordon does. I've seen Gordon play with a similar amount of energy too while at AZ...haven't watched him a ton as of late but have a feeling in a new situation where he was utilized better would be good.

I am mostly discussing this because everyone else discusses him and Lauri, as I was never huge on going for Gordon, even last year when he was playing well, but if the price was low I might take a look at it.

[Revived]

Anyone know how to find this metric? Curious to see where Ayton is. It would be nice to see him climb this list.

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Wow Jokic is a better defensive player than people give him credit for!

[ATTL]

Anyone know how to find this metric? Curious to see where Ayton is. It would be nice to see him climb this list.

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Wow Jokic is a better defensive player than people give him credit for!

Hes a big guy.
When he stands around the paint he stands around the paint.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[WeekapaugGroove]

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That's a rough signing for the Spurs, yikes

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[Kerrsed]

Yeah, if you expect the trends to continue, but with a lot of our frontcourt players out, it has helped with Oubre's rebounding (and he jumps in front of Ayton for the rebound some), then maybe. I like his energy though.

However, looking at their careers, Gordon has probably been the best player, followed by Lauri, even with their down years, and Kelly's up year http://bkref.com/tiny/l0puu

And if you go back and compare Gordon's 5th year (last year) and Lauri's last year before injury this year, and playing in Boylen's offense he hates, and compare them to Oubre this year, they are both far better rebounders http://bkref.com/tiny/l0puu and the 3 pt % is pretty close though Gordon still the better defender.

But it's all close, and with a lot of smaller ball, it might be the way to go with versatility. But I think it also comes down to how much money Kelly is looking for, and if it's over $20 million, I don't think it's worth it, even if you compare it to other overpaid players making $25 million a year, especially with the cap going down. But Lauri may want a lot of money anyway.

Ultimately, I don't think the Bulls will deal Lauri though, especially if they are making changes in their front office...their coach is surely gone this offseason. So then it would come down to who you would value more between Oubre and Gordon.

I'm not saying I'm out of finding a PF or wouldn't move Kelly but it is interesting when you start comparing numbers. As far as projecting forward I could see Kelly continue to grow and I kind of think the 3pt shooting could rise even more, he's always been a very raw player who was going to take time and he's got a nice looking shot. Rebounding is something I'm really not as worried about because I think Ayton is and will continue to be an elite rebounder.

You're right that contracts will matter. Now I expect Lauri probably wants the mini max or hell test RFA to try and find one.

Gordon's contract isn't too bad because it goes down each year. Not that I believe every trade rumor but I do believe the Magic would have been interested in a Kelly for Gordon swap, that would make a ton of sense for their roster moving forward. So assuming that was available and the suns turned it down that leads me to believe they aren't that worried about paying oubre because if they were then they should have did that deal. Oubre has been better than Gordon this season but their value overall is pretty similar.

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It might be one they would revisit in the summer. Ultimately they know what Oubre wanted this past summer and it's safe to assume he will want more on the next contract. I don't think I'd pay him more than Booker. If he just had some court vision and better team defense awareness, he would be a really good player, but he obviously doesn't see the whole floor on either side of the ball, whereas someone like Gordon does. I've seen Gordon play with a similar amount of energy too while at AZ...haven't watched him a ton as of late but have a feeling in a new situation where he was utilized better would be good.

I am mostly discussing this because everyone else discusses him and Lauri, as I was never huge on going for Gordon, even last year when he was playing well, but if the price was low I might take a look at it.

Ive spoke at length how i was not a fan of Gordon and didnt think it was a wise idea to go after him (Good teams dont actively look to trade away good players and Gordons been on the block for years now), but saying that, if the price is right than the price is right. Some guys just need that change of scenery. They need a new coach and a new system to unlock that potential, and that very well could be the case for Gordon. I mean Fultz has been an Uber-bust, but looks like he has finally turned things around a bit in Orlando.

At least this season Gordon has been working on more range. His first few seasons around 45% of his shot attempts came within 3 feet of the rim where now its only about 30% of his attempts. His 3PT attempts have also dipped as well during this time, showing that his mid-range has increased. So i look at that as a positive. His BPM is all over the place though, One season its way down, next it jumps up to +2.0, then the following season drops back down to -0.7 but then goes up the next season before it falls back down and goes back up. Its like every other year he is a positive in that aspect. I think the thing that scares me the most is his +/- Per 100 possessions. His OnCourt has been a negative every season except for last year. Thats not a good sign. But yeah, id still take a shot on him at the right price in hopes that our system, coach, and having better teammates in Booker/Ayton leads to better play and more open looks on the offensive end turns him around.

[Kerrsed]

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Of course the Rockets are favorites to land a 6"6 power-forward.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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Of course the Rockets are favorites to land a 6"6 power-forward.

6'6 C for the Rox

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[bwgood77]

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Of course the Rockets are favorites to land a 6"6 power-forward.

6'6 C for the Rox

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During the all star game Harden was guarding Embiid and had to give him a hard foul to avoid the easy dunk and the commentators were saying "Harden's gotta play a lot of C these days".

[lilfishi22]

There's a forward who could play for the suns next season who averages more points, blocks, steals, shoots a better 3pt % than both Gordon or Lauri and is about an equal rebounder to both...... His name is Kelly Oubre.

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Call me crazy but I don't feel like PF is our biggest need, I think once again it's PG, we can somehow flip Rubio a draft pick and some change for Chris Paul, and sign a decent backup big and PG this is a playoff team next year for sure. Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Paul, Booker, that's a hell of a starting 5 could compete with anyone ...

Have to disagree. As flawed as Rubio is as a player, there's no one that can play the PF nearly as well as he plays PG.

[lilfishi22]

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Virtually every player on that list is/was an all-star level player (minus Whiteside)

Show just how deserving Booker was for an all-star berth. On the other hand, where Ingram and Westbrook at ?

[Mr Puddles]

Anyone know how to find this metric? Curious to see where Ayton is. It would be nice to see him climb this list.

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Wow Jokic is a better defensive player than people give him credit for!

Hes a big guy.
When he stands around the paint he stands around the paint.

This was my though exactly when I first saw the description of this stat. Shots taken around the rim doesn't necessarily mean good defense. In today's pick and roll heavy NBA it might just mean that the big is not able to switch well allowing for easier (3 point) jump shot opportunities (due to the big sagging).

Ayton has a been good at switching onto other players, that's a much more valuable skill to have in today's NBA.

[Kerrsed]

On the other hand, where Ingram and Westbrook at ?

Well he did it for every team, so here is the Rockets and Pelicans:

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[Qwigglez]

I could see us trading for Aaron Gordon on draft night maybe, but I don't see us trading Kelly Oubre for him unless we are worried about KO's free agency the following summer.

Here's AG in the clutch from earlier this year. Start at 8:36 mark.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

A couple of decent ones.

Spoiler:

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Some Kelly Oubre clutch highlights

Spoiler:

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Check this one out, against the Blazers. Suns lost.

Spoiler:

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This one, this time in Portland. Same shot, same results, but a Suns win.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

[jredsaz]

Aaron Gordon and Lauri Markkanen arent that good. AG is a good defender but doesnt create turnovers or block shots and cannot stretch the floor. And well Lauri is known to be good shooter/scorer stretch four with questionable defensive capabilities he really isnt a very good shooter/scorer.

Larry Nance Jr. is a guy I would consider as an alternative. He has some stretchability - 42% from corner 3 - and is in the 65th percentile for 3 point shooting at his position. He is an excellent passer and rebounder and he creates turnovers at an elite level.

Out of these three guys Nance has the best mix of what you want out of a power forward. His contract also offers a mix of affordability (Nance's contract is a little more than half of Gordon's) and controlability (Nance is locked up for three more years on a deescalating contract). None of these guys can block shots and all have a bit of a precarious injury history.



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[Slim Charless]

I'm not saying I'm out of finding a PF or wouldn't move Kelly but it is interesting when you start comparing numbers. As far as projecting forward I could see Kelly continue to grow and I kind of think the 3pt shooting could rise even more, he's always been a very raw player who was going to take time and he's got a nice looking shot. Rebounding is something I'm really not as worried about because I think Ayton is and will continue to be an elite rebounder.

You're right that contracts will matter. Now I expect Lauri probably wants the mini max or hell test RFA to try and find one.

Gordon's contract isn't too bad because it goes down each year. Not that I believe every trade rumor but I do believe the Magic would have been interested in a Kelly for Gordon swap, that would make a ton of sense for their roster moving forward. So assuming that was available and the suns turned it down that leads me to believe they aren't that worried about paying oubre because if they were then they should have did that deal. Oubre has been better than Gordon this season but their value overall is pretty similar.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

It might be one they would revisit in the summer. Ultimately they know what Oubre wanted this past summer and it's safe to assume he will want more on the next contract. I don't think I'd pay him more than Booker. If he just had some court vision and better team defense awareness, he would be a really good player, but he obviously doesn't see the whole floor on either side of the ball, whereas someone like Gordon does. I've seen Gordon play with a similar amount of energy too while at AZ...haven't watched him a ton as of late but have a feeling in a new situation where he was utilized better would be good.

I am mostly discussing this because everyone else discusses him and Lauri, as I was never huge on going for Gordon, even last year when he was playing well, but if the price was low I might take a look at it.

Ive spoke at length how i was not a fan of Gordon and didnt think it was a wise idea to go after him (Good teams dont actively look to trade away good players and Gordons been on the block for years now), but saying that, if the price is right than the price is right. Some guys just need that change of scenery. They need a new coach and a new system to unlock that potential, and that very well could be the case for Gordon. I mean Fultz has been an Uber-bust, but looks like he has finally turned things around a bit in Orlando.

At least this season Gordon has been working on more range. His first few seasons around 45% of his shot attempts came within 3 feet of the rim where now its only about 30% of his attempts. His 3PT attempts have also dipped as well during this time, showing that his mid-range has increased. So i look at that as a positive. His BPM is all over the place though, One season its way down, next it jumps up to +2.0, then the following season drops back down to -0.7 but then goes up the next season before it falls back down and goes back up. Its like every other year he is a positive in that aspect. I think the thing that scares me the most is his +/- Per 100 possessions. His OnCourt has been a negative every season except for last year. Thats not a good sign. But yeah, id still take a shot on him at the right price in hopes that our system, coach, and having better teammates in Booker/Ayton leads to better play and more open looks on the offensive end turns him around.

A trade with him for KO would work on paper at least for both teams. Oubre has had a much better year so far and is younger so I think that xt value would be coming to us. I'd like to think a draft day trade with us getting their pick not top 10 would be fair.

Lauri also works and Chicago could use Oubre. I'd value them similarly but depends on what Jones and Monty think we need more of: defense or 3pt shooting. I like Gordon's chance to shoot a high percentage then Laurie's of becoming a plus defender. The way to go would be offer a similar deal to both teams and see who takes it.

[Slim Charless]

If Lauri is is available you gotta make a play. Anyone or thing outside of book, bridges and Ayton is on the table for him.

Like was said above Oubre for Sato/Markkanen works cap wise. Not sure if the Suns would need to throw in a draft pick or not

The Bulls are set up for cap space in the summer of 2021 as it is now as Felicio is done and Young/Sato both have options in the summer of 2021. They might want Oubre to play the 3 so Carter can play the 4.

I think the Suns need to look into this one if true ML wants out of Chicago.

I would prefer to keep Oubre but understand to get you have to give .

I'm not too sure that we could get Sato included, As he's their starting guard and they've been cycling through many guards, Just trying to find one that sticks. Now Dunn is restricted but is a really good defender and is fast and athletic. And they will definitely want the cap space, As they really are quietly coveting the cap space for 2021 in order to chase Anthony Davis ( primary target) and Giannis, etc. So we'd likely have to take back Young ( as he's only owed 7 million in 2021) But in taking him back, They'd save an additional 7 million for that summer.

Also, Even though I really like Oubre, I'd have him as the centerpiece of the deal, Mainly because He's going to be getting a major payday in 2021 to the tune of over 20+ million or more. Also with Bridges showing major improvements whenst he starts, That makes Oubre somewhat expendable at such a high pricetag, Which becomes a eventual monetary detriment to us, When taking into consideration our impending extensions as well. So ultimately, My best offer ( And final offer) would be Oubre, Kaminsky, Okobo and two firsts:
- A 2020 top 3 protected first.
- A 2023 top 5 protected first.

*** And I'd take back ONE bad contract. Either Felicio or Young, But NOT BOTH. So our trade return would essentially be:

Thaddeus Young/ Lauri Markkanen/ Kris Dunn. We now have our starting 4 and a quality veteran backup 4. Then we can rescind ( or renounce the qualifying offer for Dunn, Now giving us around 28-29 million I believe??

And for 2020, We just look to add depth at shooting guard and backup guard. I'd offer Joe Harris around (10 million). And then offer Van Fleet around 13-14 million, Last, I'd offer Bryn Forbes around 4-5 million ( to be our 6th man scorer off the bench). Then once we use sign all of our free agents, I'd use our bird rights to resign Baynes. So IF everything goes as planned. Our post free agency roster heading into the season would now look like:

- Rubio/ Fred Van Fleet/ Carter.
- Booker/ Harris/ Bryn Forbes.
- Bridges/ Cam / Harris.
- Markannen/ Young/ Diallo.
- Ayton/ Baynes/ ***( Nerlens Noel or Dwight Howard using the Taxpayer midlevel exception)???

2 lotto picks, Oubre AND take a bad contract. Didn't AD land like 3 picks and some players who besides Ingram collectively aren't as good as Oubre? I mean I like the guy but that's too much. We should be able to get him straight up for Kelly and maybe take a bad contract along with it.