2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[RunDogGun]

Ghost, I was looking at their comparisons, and I just don't see the positives for Grant over Oubre, nor does you trade mean we would get a pick in return. We also don't know what the sign and trade would be, and it would have to be after the draft. Kelly is a good defender, and gets a good amount of steals. He is also a good perimeter defender.

I have no idea what Oubre will cost or what two years from now market will be like, but we don't have to save money to sign him in 2021, we could just make him a solid offer. Grant could eat up cap space in 2021, that we might want to use on another player.

It just seems like a step down move regardless of the 4% better three point shooting. The rebound differential and getting to the line really stands out, which are two problem areas for us. Grant just doesn't rebound that well, nor does he get to the line. Coming to PHX will hurt the FTAs.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I don't understand trading Oubre for an older less productive player like Grant. Is it really for the 4% points on three point shooting?

I like Ghosts enthusiasm and posts but what he proposes with Grant (signing and trading around the draft) isn't even legal with the CBA.

If the suns want Grant and assuming he opts out of his deal they will have the cap space to simply sign him outright.

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Why would we want him? Oubre is already better than him. We don't need another undersized SF/PF, who doesn't rebound.

I get your apprehension, Given Oubres' recent improvements, But again, As stated, Oubres' really only better in a few areas, rebounds currently, assists, steals, and points. But it's important to consider his different role, And higher overall usage. Grant is statistically better in other key areas of need for us.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jerami+Grant&player_id1_select=Jerami+Grant&player_id1=grantje01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Kelly+Oubre+Jr.&player_id2_select=Kelly+Oubre+Jr.&y2=2020&player_id2=oubreke01&idx=players

3 point shooting-
- Grant: 39%
- Oubre 35%

FG%-
- Grant 468.
- Oubre 455.

2 point FG%-
- Grant. 514.
- Oubre. 512.

EFG%-
- Grant. 546.
- Oubre. 522.

Blocks-
- Grant. 0.9.
- Oubre. 0.7.

Turnovers-
-Grant. 0.8.
- Oubre. 1.5.

Personal Fouls-
- Grant. 2.1.
- Oubre. 3.4.
*****************************************
Advanced Metrics-

TS%-
- Grant. 580.
- Oubre. 566.

Usage %-
- Grant. 17.4.
- Oubre. 22.5.

OWS-
- Grant. 1.9.
- Oubre. 1.8.

Win shares/ 48-
- Grant. .115.
- Oubre. .098.

And again, This is with Grant having a different role, And less usage. Most importantly, Even if Oubre agrees to resign with us for around 20 million ( Although I don't see why he wouldn't tey to get the most money he can)? Then even IF we signed Grant for up to 15 million, He'd still be 5 million cheaper longterm. And If Oubre does in fact get an offer around 25+ million, Then Grants contract becomes an even greater value for us in that it'd still be 10 million cheaper at that point.

But as I've said, I actually like Oubre man. I'm just not sure if I like him potentially tying up our long term cap space at 20- 25+ million or more??? Especially when we have multiple areas in our roster that need to be addressed. And again in that we ALSO have immenent core extensions that have to be considered as well.

[SunsRback4Good]

I'm going to hate playoff Oubre so much. I can handle him in the regular season but feel like he wont shine on the big stage. If we get an opportunity go get Grant, Markkanen, or Gordon. Maybe we can draft or trade for a 2nd solid pg to play behind Rubio.

[BobbieL]

Ghost, I was looking at their comparisons, and I just don't see the positives for Grant over Oubre, nor does you trade mean we would get a pick in return. We also don't know what the sign and trade would be, and it would have to be after the draft. Kelly is a good defender, and gets a good amount of steals. He is also a good perimeter defender.

I have no idea what Oubre will cost or what two years from now market will be like, but we don't have to save money to sign him in 2021, we could just make him a solid offer. Grant could eat up cap space in 2021, that we might want to use on another player.

It just seems like a step down move regardless of the 4% better three point shooting. The rebound differential and getting to the line really stands out, which are two problem areas for us. Grant just doesn't rebound that well, nor does he get to the line. Coming to PHX will hurt the FTAs.

I am thinking the same thing with respect to Oubre and Grant. I don't see much difference and Oubre is getting better. Thats why maybe a guy like Millsap on a one year deal makes some sense. The Suns would keep some cap space in 2021.. just in case - but Oubre might be at a point where he is the "big free agent signing" - by keeping him.

I mean, if Markkanen is available for the right price - thats good

But the Suns REALLY need do need to keep moving forward and adding Millsap as a known quantity strictly for the bench - is a solid move. And making getting solid players like Millsap and "Name your two guard" might be a solid play.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ghost, I was looking at their comparisons, and I just don't see the positives for Grant over Oubre, nor does you trade mean we would get a pick in return. We also don't know what the sign and trade would be, and it would have to be after the draft. Kelly is a good defender, and gets a good amount of steals. He is also a good perimeter defender.

I have no idea what Oubre will cost or what two years from now market will be like, but we don't have to save money to sign him in 2021, we could just make him a solid offer. Grant could eat up cap space in 2021, that we might want to use on another player.

It just seems like a step down move regardless of the 4% better three point shooting. The rebound differential and getting to the line really stands out, which are two problem areas for us. Grant just doesn't rebound that well, nor does he get to the line. Coming to PHX will hurt the FTAs.

Not to be confusing, But my initial thinking was in that it would be an agreed upon in principle trade. Wherein once the season ends, We begin the framework, find an agreeable amount for Grant, Agree in principle, Then make the call to the league office, To relay the details and framework of the trade. Also with consideration that non playoff teams ( Phoenix) could start initiating trades right after the final day of the regular season........ April 15th? Before the playoffs start? Does that sound about right ?

https://cbabreakdown.com/trades

For teams that do not make the playoffs, they can start making trades again on the day after their last regular season game. Playoff teams can start making trades once they’re eliminated from the playoffs. However, no trades can take place during the moratorium period.

To finalize a trade, teams have to participate in a trade call with the league where they confirm the trade’s details. Teams must disclose all relevant information they have about a player during this call.

So the premise being that, They would make the specified pick for us and we'd get that players' rights. Then after the moratorium, We would then sign that player and complete the discussed ( agreed in principle) framework of the trade.

But upon further review, And taking your solid points into consideration, I do now agree that Week is right, In that it makes more sense to simply w as it for free agency and pursue him, without having to give up Oubre and other potential pieces.

I apologize for being somewhat overzealous with my concerns over Oubres' potential cost detriment to us in 2021, As well as being overtly eager to try and find a viable potential replacement, As opposedto simply losing him in 21' free agency. And honestly Run, I'd love to keep him. But not for 25+ million, And only if hed be willing to resign at a reasonable price. But in fairness to him, Why wouldn't he chase his biggest potential payday that summer.

Hopefully, Our front office gets things done this summer! In the meantime, I'm just trying to explore potential options for us.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ghost, I was looking at their comparisons, and I just don't see the positives for Grant over Oubre, nor does you trade mean we would get a pick in return. We also don't know what the sign and trade would be, and it would have to be after the draft. Kelly is a good defender, and gets a good amount of steals. He is also a good perimeter defender.

I have no idea what Oubre will cost or what two years from now market will be like, but we don't have to save money to sign him in 2021, we could just make him a solid offer. Grant could eat up cap space in 2021, that we might want to use on another player.

It just seems like a step down move regardless of the 4% better three point shooting. The rebound differential and getting to the line really stands out, which are two problem areas for us. Grant just doesn't rebound that well, nor does he get to the line. Coming to PHX will hurt the FTAs.

I am thinking the same thing with respect to Oubre and Grant. I don't see much difference and Oubre is getting better. Thats why maybe a guy like Millsap on a one year deal makes some sense. The Suns would keep some cap space in 2021.. just in case - but Oubre might be at a point where he is the "big free agent signing" - by keeping him.

I mean, if Markkanen is available for the right price - thats good

But the Suns REALLY need do need to keep moving forward and adding Millsap as a known quantity strictly for the bench - is a solid move. And making getting solid players like Millsap and "Name your two guard" might be a solid play.

Yeah, I hear ya, But Would Denver really not just resign him if they're trying to compete now? I mean they'll have a ton of money coming off the books with Milsaps' 30 million expiring, And also with Plumlees ' 15 million expiring too. So in theory, Bgood and others who have said that they don't see why Denver wouldn't just resign both Grant and Milsap to a smaller friendlier contract, May end being right this entire time.

But just say they fo let Milsap go, What pricetag would we put to him wherein it's still a reasonable, good value contract?

And if we're keeping Oubre, I really hope that we are able to make a Big splash this summer, Because we likely won't be doing much in 2021 depending upon the type of contracts that we hand out this summer. I guess I'd still be happy with our current roster in majority, As long as we can find 3 things this coming summer:

1- An actual starting valiber 3 and D power forward, That can spread the floor for us consistently.
I know I know the past issues, But my preference would be Markieff. A nice generous ( yet reasonable) 1 yr deal should be enough to quash any past issues, And He is tough, is a decent rebounder, has a solid face up game, And is shooting 39% from three for the season. Bowers' would have an inside connection for us. And we could likely get him for only 5-6 million. Then he can start and Saric can be resigned for (5 million) he's not worth any more than that honestly. But he can be the backup 4 for us on a 1yr deal?

Then you add Fred Van Vleet ( Bgood) for around 14 **( If possible) or DJ Augustine for around 9 ( otherwise). And lastly add one of Bryn Forbes, Glenn Robinson 3rd, or Alec Burks for around 5 million???

By the way, two things. First, It was mentioned not long ago that in order to get to 26 million in space this summer, We'd have to renounce all.of our players outside of our core and rookies. So IF we do that, AND we spend the full 26 million in free agency, Then do we become a tax payer team, and would thusly be afforded the Taxpayer MLE? Or is that only for team's that are against the luxury tax? Would we havecany exceptions available to us this summer aside from that cap space?


And second, Blonde mentioned us not having full bird rights to Baynes, Which I do understand. But is it possible to combine partial cap space with an exception in order to resign him? Or do we intend to resign him purely out of our projected cap space???

[Blonde]

Ghost, it’s a total non-starter to discuss trading for Grant on draft night. We couldn’t even negotiate a deal in advance with Denver because he is a FREE AGENT, i.e., Denver can’t and won’t make any deals involving him because he can do whatever he wants this summer. And he sure as hell won’t agree to be traded to PHX before he hears other offers on the open market. It’s impossible, or at the very least would require a lot of tampering and ineptitude from all parties involved.

[lilfishi22]

I think Book may be selling his mansion in Paradise Valley. Looks like his house from stuff he’s posted in years past.



One weekend with Russell and BAM! Jk lol. Weird time to sell though right in the middle of the season. Must’ve found something nicer in another area.

Considering the new cheddar he's on now, I'm sure he could upgrade to something REAL nice.

[Kerrsed]

I think Book may be selling his mansion in Paradise Valley. Looks like his house from stuff he’s posted in years past.



One weekend with Russell and BAM! Jk lol. Weird time to sell though right in the middle of the season. Must’ve found something nicer in another area.

At first I read that and thought "Is he that close with Bam too?"

That weird. Right down from the new practice facility too.

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Thats really weird. Yes, it is Bookers house. He bought it in 2017 for $3.25M and is looking to sell it for $4.2M. Its like a 10-15 minute drive to where the practice facility is being built on 44th & Camelback. Very odd to be looking to sell in the middle of the season as well. Very very odd.

[TeamTragic]

I think Book may be selling his mansion in Paradise Valley. Looks like his house from stuff he’s posted in years past.



One weekend with Russell and BAM! Jk lol. Weird time to sell though right in the middle of the season. Must’ve found something nicer in another area.

Sarver did the same not that long ago. Booker likely hit peak pricing and now he is selling before the inevitable drop.

Just a smart investment decision in my opinion.

[lilfishi22]

Ghost, it’s a total non-starter to discuss trading for Grant on draft night. We couldn’t even negotiate a deal in advance with Denver because he is a FREE AGENT, i.e., Denver can’t and won’t make any deals involving him because he can do whatever he wants this summer. And he sure as hell won’t agree to be traded to PHX before he hears other offers on the open market. It’s impossible, or at the very least would require a lot of tampering and ineptitude from all parties involved.

My guess is that Ghost is thinking it would be a S&T.

[Blonde]

Ghost, it’s a total non-starter to discuss trading for Grant on draft night. We couldn’t even negotiate a deal in advance with Denver because he is a FREE AGENT, i.e., Denver can’t and won’t make any deals involving him because he can do whatever he wants this summer. And he sure as hell won’t agree to be traded to PHX before he hears other offers on the open market. It’s impossible, or at the very least would require a lot of tampering and ineptitude from all parties involved.

My guess is that Ghost is thinking it would be a S&T.

That was my assumption too. It’s still not possible to do or have conversations about prior to free agency.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ghost, it’s a total non-starter to discuss trading for Grant on draft night. We couldn’t even negotiate a deal in advance with Denver because he is a FREE AGENT, i.e., Denver can’t and won’t make any deals involving him because he can do whatever he wants this summer. And he sure as hell won’t agree to be traded to PHX before he hears other offers on the open market. It’s impossible, or at the very least would require a lot of tampering and ineptitude from all parties involved.

My guess is that Ghost is thinking it would be a S&T.

That was my assumption too. It’s still not possible to do or have conversations about prior to free agency.

This should almost be a sticky with how many people will propose sign and trades with FAs. It's an epidemic on these boards around draft time.

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[suns12345]

I think Book may be selling his mansion in Paradise Valley. Looks like his house from stuff he’s posted in years past.



One weekend with Russell and BAM! Jk lol. Weird time to sell though right in the middle of the season. Must’ve found something nicer in another area.

Considering the new cheddar he's on now, I'm sure he could upgrade to something REAL nice.

Lol everyone relax. As you say fishi, he's making about 10x more than he was when he bought this house. So might be upgrading. Also these guys have lives outside of bball and just because its mid season doesnt mean he can't sell his house for non-sinister reasons.

I dont live in AZ, but I imagine selling your house in winter is more appealing than summer when it is 1 billion degrees outside.

[lilfishi22]

My guess is that Ghost is thinking it would be a S&T.

That was my assumption too. It’s still not possible to do or have conversations about prior to free agency.

This should almost be a sticky with how many people will propose sign and trades with FAs. It's an epidemic on these boards around draft time.

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To be fair, just because it's not possible have conversations prior to free agency, it's not like it doesn't happen often

[bwgood77]

I think Book may be selling his mansion in Paradise Valley. Looks like his house from stuff he’s posted in years past.



One weekend with Russell and BAM! Jk lol. Weird time to sell though right in the middle of the season. Must’ve found something nicer in another area.

Considering the new cheddar he's on now, I'm sure he could upgrade to something REAL nice.

Lol everyone relax. As you say fishi, he's making about 10x more than he was when he bought this house. So might be upgrading. Also these guys have lives outside of bball and just because its mid season doesnt mean he can't sell his house for non-sinister reasons.

I dont live in AZ, but I imagine selling your house in winter is more appealing than summer when it is 1 billion degrees outside.

Might as well get one on Camelback Mountain now right next to the practice facility. Yeah, no need for anyone to make a deal about selling his house considering he is under contract for another near 4.5 years.

[Revived]

I think Book may be selling his mansion in Paradise Valley. Looks like his house from stuff he’s posted in years past.



One weekend with Russell and BAM! Jk lol. Weird time to sell though right in the middle of the season. Must’ve found something nicer in another area.

Considering the new cheddar he's on now, I'm sure he could upgrade to something REAL nice.

Lol everyone relax. As you say fishi, he's making about 10x more than he was when he bought this house. So might be upgrading. Also these guys have lives outside of bball and just because its mid season doesnt mean he can't sell his house for non-sinister reasons.

I dont live in AZ, but I imagine selling your house in winter is more appealing than summer when it is 1 billion degrees outside.

It’s not exactly a $200k cheap house or something lol.

But yeah, I don’t think this means anything in basketball terms either. Just found it pretty interesting.

[WeekapaugGroove]

That was my assumption too. It’s still not possible to do or have conversations about prior to free agency.

This should almost be a sticky with how many people will propose sign and trades with FAs. It's an epidemic on these boards around draft time.

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To be fair, just because it's not possible have conversations prior to free agency, it's not like it doesn't happen often

Ha yeah tampering is the norm now.

What I'm specifically talking about is the million trade ideas in June where people on every board are like 'we should trade our pick in a sign and trade for pending FA x'. Forgetting the draft happens a week before FA.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Ghost, it’s a total non-starter to discuss trading for Grant on draft night. We couldn’t even negotiate a deal in advance with Denver because he is a FREE AGENT, i.e., Denver can’t and won’t make any deals involving him because he can do whatever he wants this summer. And he sure as hell won’t agree to be traded to PHX before he hears other offers on the open market. It’s impossible, or at the very least would require a lot of tampering and ineptitude from all parties involved.

Thanks man, I get it. I really do. I appreciate your info to help me understand the CBA better as well. I sometimes suck at relaying messages. But my response was an attempt to source my misinformation, So that they'd understand the origin of gross misinterpretation from the earlier post. I did listen to your information though, And do absolutely appreciate all your efforts ontrying to help me better understand the CBA.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Ghost, it’s a total non-starter to discuss trading for Grant on draft night. We couldn’t even negotiate a deal in advance with Denver because he is a FREE AGENT, i.e., Denver can’t and won’t make any deals involving him because he can do whatever he wants this summer. And he sure as hell won’t agree to be traded to PHX before he hears other offers on the open market. It’s impossible, or at the very least would require a lot of tampering and ineptitude from all parties involved.

Thanks man, I get it. I really do. I appreciate your info to help me understand the CBA better as well. I sometimes suck at relaying messages. But my response was an attempt to source my misinformation, So that they'd understand the origin of gross misinterpretation from the earlier post. I did listen to your information though, And do absolutely appreciate all your efforts ontrying to help me better understand the CBA.

I love you, GoK. Your diligence and kindness are extremely refreshing. Love what you do for this board, man. Keep it up.