2020 NBA Draft II

[GimmeDat]

I'm Ja over LaMelo. The ceiling is there for LaMelo but chance of reaching it lower imo.

[Roddy B for 3]

Ja Morant vs. LaMelo Ball

who ya got as prospects?

I was one of the guys who was high on Morant last year when RealGM guys weren't so high on him. Morant is the greatest PG prospect I've ever seen in the last 10 years. That doesn't mean I think he will be the best PG in the NBA one day, not at all but I knew his floor and ceiling was very high for a PG. I had those who I was high on for one and not the other or vice versa. He was very high at both.

What do you think about Cole Anthony?

[King Ken]

Ja Morant vs. LaMelo Ball

who ya got as prospects?

I was one of the guys who was high on Morant last year when RealGM guys weren't so high on him. Morant is the greatest PG prospect I've ever seen in the last 10 years. That doesn't mean I think he will be the best PG in the NBA one day, not at all but I knew his floor and ceiling was very high for a PG. I had those who I was high on for one and not the other or vice versa. He was very high at both.

What do you think about Cole Anthony?

I see him a lot like Reddish without the excellent talent or freakish upside but with more polish upfront. Vince Carter said this about Cam Reddish: https://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball/feel-like-only-from-here-cam-reddish-looks-build-off-strong-january/GJu5Pk0LcCZJPEqsh5FUYL/

He said Cam has a lot of noodle, wet noodle on both sides. I see the same from Anthony. Both have good forms and have been great shooters at various levels previously but in the NCAA's, their game is incomplete. Both lacking craft, both lacking a lot while having tremendous skill. He is more polish than Reddish was last year but he's got aways to go and really needs to clean up the "ish" in his game. He plays too much AAU style of Basketball. He also lacks finishing explosiveness. His level of explosiveness works in AAU because that's a lot poor defense being played. It showcases athleticism better but in the NBA with the modern defenses, you must have a clean game. His issue is normal. Just that when you are so skilled, it's difficult to see why he's struggling.

Like Cam, I think they have spent too much time with personal trainers and not enough time just playing high impact games with sound defense. Also, I like it when a prospect does what Eboni Bates, LeBron James, and Zion Williamson does where they play with smaller local talents. They tend to overpower the comp but they have to play clean Basketball. Value possessions and when it's not clean, it's obvious while when you are playing for Malloy, Westtown, or Oak Hill, you can get away with a lot of fluff but you don't get exposed till college. I think he is raw offensively but he has a lot to like offensively as well.

I like Cole. His defense is solid and he has a decent floor on that end. He communicates, he understands defense at a high level and you can see him being a defensive leader one day. He doesn't get a lot of stocks but he's a team defender. I still want him to be more complete on that end. He's a high-end rebounder.

Offensively, he's raw, too much noodle-like Reddish was. Everyone likes to compare anyone who's a poor finisher with excellent athleticism and a tremendous first step to Austin Rivers and Brandon Jennings. The thing is, Cole has a great touch. His issue is, the explosiveness change, he needs to be clean, this can be done. Cam Reddish is doing it this year. Trae Young had to do it last year. Lou Williams had to do this as a rookie. DeVonte' Graham also has to learn this. It takes time but if you are fluid with an excellent touch, you can clean this up but you have to use A LOT of floaters and this takes a lot of practice and generating a good feel around the rim. To an extreme degree, I should add but if you lack explosiveness in traffic, you have to do this or you will never finish well.


A player I think he compares well to is Fred VanVleet long term. I do think Cole has more playmaking potential long term. I think Cole has PnR potential and I also think Cole can be an elite shooter down the road. I also see more scoring potential from Anthony as well but he has a lower floor offensively. The thing is, there is a lot of noodle with Cole, especially on offense. I see why Greg thinks Cole should return. He might not be NBA ready yet. Defensively, he's the 2nd best prospect to me for the PG's in this draft after Jones.

Cole for me is a 5.5 offensively and a 6.5 defensively right now. Potentially, I see a 8.5 offensively and a 8.5 defensively which is an all-star level player, Lowry level. He has an outside chance to get to a 9.5 on offense if his playmaking pops beyond my expectation and his off-ball scoring takes a massive upswing. It's hard to see his defense go beyond a 8.5 which is really good for a PG. He just doesn't have the positional versatility, the length, or bulk. That said, he can be great team defense wise for a PG in general and that's a major positive long term once he's around an established roster.

His potential is intriguing. He has more PG skills than guys like 2009 Jrue Holiday or Jeff Teague. Not a top 5 pick but clearly a lottery pick. You can do much worse in this draft in the lottery.

[Jamaaliver]

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[Roddy B for 3]

I was one of the guys who was high on Morant last year when RealGM guys weren't so high on him. Morant is the greatest PG prospect I've ever seen in the last 10 years. That doesn't mean I think he will be the best PG in the NBA one day, not at all but I knew his floor and ceiling was very high for a PG. I had those who I was high on for one and not the other or vice versa. He was very high at both.

What do you think about Cole Anthony?

I see him a lot like Reddish without the excellent talent or freakish upside but with more polish upfront. Vince Carter said this about Cam Reddish: https://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball/feel-like-only-from-here-cam-reddish-looks-build-off-strong-january/GJu5Pk0LcCZJPEqsh5FUYL/

He said Cam has a lot of noodle, wet noodle on both sides. I see the same from Anthony. Both have good forms and have been great shooters at various levels previously but in the NCAA's, their game is incomplete. Both lacking craft, both lacking a lot while having tremendous skill. He is more polish than Reddish was last year but he's got aways to go and really needs to clean up the "ish" in his game. He plays too much AAU style of Basketball. He also lacks finishing explosiveness. His level of explosiveness works in AAU because that's a lot poor defense being played. It showcases athleticism better but in the NBA with the modern defenses, you must have a clean game. His issue is normal. Just that when you are so skilled, it's difficult to see why he's struggling.

Like Cam, I think they have spent too much time with personal trainers and not enough time just playing high impact games with sound defense. Also, I like it when a prospect does what Eboni Bates, LeBron James, and Zion Williamson does where they play with smaller local talents. They tend to overpower the comp but they have to play clean Basketball. Value possessions and when it's not clean, it's obvious while when you are playing for Malloy, Westtown, or Oak Hill, you can get away with a lot of fluff but you don't get exposed till college. I think he is raw offensively but he has a lot to like offensively as well.

I like Cole. His defense is solid and he has a decent floor on that end. He communicates, he understands defense at a high level and you can see him being a defensive leader one day. He doesn't get a lot of stocks but he's a team defender. I still want him to be more complete on that end. He's a high-end rebounder.

Offensively, he's raw, too much noodle-like Reddish was. Everyone likes to compare anyone who's a poor finisher with excellent athleticism and a tremendous first step to Austin Rivers and Brandon Jennings. The thing is, Cole has a great touch. His issue is, the explosiveness change, he needs to be clean, this can be done. Cam Reddish is doing it this year. Trae Young had to do it last year. Lou Williams had to do this as a rookie. DeVonte' Graham also has to learn this. It takes time but if you are fluid with an excellent touch, you can clean this up but you have to use A LOT of floaters and this takes a lot of practice and generating a good feel around the rim. To an extreme degree, I should add but if you lack explosiveness in traffic, you have to do this or you will never finish well.


A player I think he compares well to is Fred VanVleet long term. I do think Cole has more playmaking potential long term. I think Cole has PnR potential and I also think Cole can be an elite shooter down the road. I also see more scoring potential from Anthony as well but he has a lower floor offensively. The thing is, there is a lot of noodle with Cole, especially on offense. I see why Greg thinks Cole should return. He might not be NBA ready yet. Defensively, he's the 2nd best prospect to me for the PG's in this draft after Jones.

Cole for me is a 5.5 offensively and a 6.5 defensively right now. Potentially, I see a 8.5 offensively and a 8.5 defensively which is an all-star level player, Lowry level. He has an outside chance to get to a 9.5 on offense if his playmaking pops beyond my expectation and his off-ball scoring takes a massive upswing. It's hard to see his defense go beyond a 8.5 which is really good for a PG. He just doesn't have the positional versatility, the length, or bulk. That said, he can be great team defense wise for a PG in general and that's a major positive long term once he's around an established roster.

His potential is intriguing. He has more PG skills than guys like 2009 Jrue Holiday or Jeff Teague. Not a top 5 pick but clearly a lottery pick. You can do much worse in this draft in the lottery.

Thank you for the lengthy response! Your post makes alot of sense to me and I agree with what you wrote.

I see that "wiggle" but Coles production is so bad it a cause for concern.

I don't usually like to "project" TO MUCH when scouting, but with Cole everything looks "clean" to me, except the end result. He seems like a truly hard worker and someone who cares. So, I give him the benefit of the doubt he'll increase his shooting splits, but they are so low right now I have to project them to increase quite a bit to put him where I want to on my big board.

You've been an insightful mind on this forum, so the fact that your positive on Cole gives me great confidence that I'm not projecting a total bust as a top ten pick.

[King Ken]

Thank you for the lengthy response! Your post makes alot of sense to me and I agree with what you wrote.

I see that "wiggle" but Coles production is so bad it a cause for concern.

I don't usually like to "project" TO MUCH when scouting, but with Cole everything looks "clean" to me, except the end result. He seems like a truly hard worker and someone who cares. So, I give him the benefit of the doubt he'll increase his shooting splits, but they are so low right now I have to project them to increase quite a bit to put him where I want to on my big board.

You've been an insightful mind on this forum, so the fact that your positive on Cole gives me great confidence that I'm not projecting a total bust as a top ten pick.

The end result needs to be the cleanest part. That's the issue but I see a lot of BS in his game. Too much AAU. I am starting to see Greg's influence this year though. You see minor changes but they feel like big ones from Cole of late.

He's not going to be a bust. He has too much polish and talent. Just gotta kick the noodle in his game to the side and he's still adjusting to college defenses and how skilled these other schools are at team defense. College is a different monster from the NBA. Some will say it's harder depending on their playing style. Doesn't help Coach Roy is hard as hell for PG's in general. He took some difficulties of the offense down with White but with Cole, he's throwing the kitchen sink at him. I love it but Cole's numbers don't.

With the exception of Lawson due to substance abuse, his PG's can play in the pros no matter the level well beyond their years almost like a high-end Euro PG.

I always project. You have too. That's how you analyze if you can hit or miss on potential and how feasible is it.

[clyde21]

Cole Anthony is kinda like current Derrick Rose, he should be a + player in the right role but I'm not sure if he can be the lead guard at this point

[King Ken]

Cole Anthony is kinda like current Derrick Rose, he should be a + player in the right role but I'm not sure if he can be the lead guard at this point

Explain? This one is extremely odd to me

[clyde21]

Cole Anthony is kinda like current Derrick Rose, he should be a + player in the right role but I'm not sure if he can be the lead guard at this point

Explain? This one is extremely odd to me

explain what? the comp?

[King Ken]

Cole Anthony is kinda like current Derrick Rose, he should be a + player in the right role but I'm not sure if he can be the lead guard at this point

Explain? This one is extremely odd to me

explain what? the comp?

Yes, the comparison

[clyde21]

Explain? This one is extremely odd to me

explain what? the comp?

Yes, the comparison

i mean it's kinda straightforward, really similar dribble games, similar scoring styles, they operate from similar spots, both are more score first than true PGs, size/frame is analogous, role should be similar to modern day D-Rose too.

[King Ken]

explain what? the comp?

Yes, the comparison

i mean it's kinda straightforward, really similar dribble games, similar scoring styles, they operate from similar spots, both are more score first than true PGs, size/frame is analogous, role should be similar to modern day D-Rose too.

Straight forward how?

They play a completely different style of Basketball. Cole game is based on setting up for three pointers or PnR dribble drive. 40% of his shots are threes. Rose is heavily based on iso mid-range shots and PnR to setup the drive. In his prime, it was this to an extreme degree usage wise. Even then, Cole usage is astronomical. He gets touches like Devonte' Graham.

I'll say Cole as a prospect is more of a true PG than Rose ever was. Rose is based on offensive creation. Cole game is about PnR creation and scoring using his jumper which is his swing skill.

I don't see it even at 1%. I mean, you can say Jalen Brunson and I would see it better than Rose. I think what you are trying to convey is that he's best in your eyes as a 6th man long term, I am guessing

[clyde21]

Yes, the comparison

i mean it's kinda straightforward, really similar dribble games, similar scoring styles, they operate from similar spots, both are more score first than true PGs, size/frame is analogous, role should be similar to modern day D-Rose too.

Straight forward how?

They play a completely different style of Basketball. Cole game is based on setting up for three pointers or PnR dribble drive. 40% of his shots are threes. Rose is heavily based on iso mid-range shots and PnR to setup the drive. In his prime, it was this to an extreme degree usage wise. Even then, Cole usage is astronomical. He gets touches like Devonte' Graham.

I'll say Cole as a prospect is more of a true PG than Rose ever was. Rose is based on offensive creation. Cole game is about PnR creation and scoring using his jumper which is his swing skill.

I don't see it even at 1%. I mean, you can say Jalen Brunson and I would see it better than Rose. I think what you are trying to convey is that he's best in your eyes as a 6th man long term, I am guessing

have you not been watching D-Rose the last couple of years? the majority of his shots are either within 5 feet at the rim or 3s these last two seasons, their dribble drive games and how they move are similar, how they finish at the rim is similar (even though Cole still can't finish at all but the body control is similar), the role that Cole should be playing in the NBA is exactly the role D-Rose has been playing the last 2 yrs.

and no, Cole's is not really a true PG prospect at all at this point, he's got 1:1 assist to TO ratio which is not good at all if you're looking for a true lead guard, he's way more score first than pass at this point.

[King Ken]

i mean it's kinda straightforward, really similar dribble games, similar scoring styles, they operate from similar spots, both are more score first than true PGs, size/frame is analogous, role should be similar to modern day D-Rose too.

Straight forward how?

They play a completely different style of Basketball. Cole game is based on setting up for three pointers or PnR dribble drive. 40% of his shots are threes. Rose is heavily based on iso mid-range shots and PnR to setup the drive. In his prime, it was this to an extreme degree usage wise. Even then, Cole usage is astronomical. He gets touches like Devonte' Graham.

I'll say Cole as a prospect is more of a true PG than Rose ever was. Rose is based on offensive creation. Cole game is about PnR creation and scoring using his jumper which is his swing skill.

I don't see it even at 1%. I mean, you can say Jalen Brunson and I would see it better than Rose. I think what you are trying to convey is that he's best in your eyes as a 6th man long term, I am guessing

have you not been watching D-Rose the last couple of years? the majority of his shots are either within 5 feet at the rim or 3s these last two seasons, their dribble drive games and how they move are similar, how they finish at the rim is similar (even though Cole still can't finish at all but the body control is similar), the role that Cole should be playing in the NBA is exactly the role D-Rose has been playing the last 2 yrs.

and no, Cole's is not really a true PG prospect at all at this point, he's got 1:1 assist to TO ratio which is not good at all if you're looking for a true lead guard, he's way more score first than pass at this point.

Rose 3PtR is under 200. He shoots half as many threes as Cole taken and as a prospect, it was similar for Rose compared to now.

Cole does have body control and touch, he's not finishing due to a lack of explosiveness, a need for craft, and highly congested traffic in the paint.

Lol! You are joking right, you are using ast/to ratio to determine who's a true PG or not? Yeah, I think we are done with conversation. Thanks

[Roddy B for 3]

Can someone give me some names I should pay attention to that tankathon dosen't have up?

I've done most of my early work on the tankathon guys. I'm looking for some names that people think could be NBA contributes who tankathon dosen't have listed.

I know the big man from Arizona gets alot of love, anyone know his name or who else is a potential first round type of guy?

[clyde21]

Straight forward how?

They play a completely different style of Basketball. Cole game is based on setting up for three pointers or PnR dribble drive. 40% of his shots are threes. Rose is heavily based on iso mid-range shots and PnR to setup the drive. In his prime, it was this to an extreme degree usage wise. Even then, Cole usage is astronomical. He gets touches like Devonte' Graham.

I'll say Cole as a prospect is more of a true PG than Rose ever was. Rose is based on offensive creation. Cole game is about PnR creation and scoring using his jumper which is his swing skill.

I don't see it even at 1%. I mean, you can say Jalen Brunson and I would see it better than Rose. I think what you are trying to convey is that he's best in your eyes as a 6th man long term, I am guessing

have you not been watching D-Rose the last couple of years? the majority of his shots are either within 5 feet at the rim or 3s these last two seasons, their dribble drive games and how they move are similar, how they finish at the rim is similar (even though Cole still can't finish at all but the body control is similar), the role that Cole should be playing in the NBA is exactly the role D-Rose has been playing the last 2 yrs.

and no, Cole's is not really a true PG prospect at all at this point, he's got 1:1 assist to TO ratio which is not good at all if you're looking for a true lead guard, he's way more score first than pass at this point.

Rose 3PtR is under 200. He shoots half as many threes as Cole taken and as a prospect, it was similar for Rose compared to now.

Cole does have body control and touch, he's not finishing due to a lack of explosiveness, a need for craft, and highly congested traffic in the paint.

Lol! You are joking right, you are using ast/to ratio to determine who's a true PG or not? Yeah, I think we are done with conversation. Thanks

well, considering it's my opinion vs yours, yes, I'm actually using stats and evidence to back my opinion up, other than you who usually just ends up resorting to childish nonsense like pretending "LOL" is an argument...yes, Cole isn't a true a PG, anybody who has watched him this year knows he has a ways to go before he's a legitimate lead guard in the NBA.

even Coby White, who had serious questions marks as a lead guard in the same system, has a wayyyy better assist rate than Cole (5.2 assists per 36 compared to 4.0 assist per 36, and on much lower usage on top of it).

and good thing my comp to current D-Rose is a lot more than just 'who shoots more threes'.

[King Ken]

have you not been watching D-Rose the last couple of years? the majority of his shots are either within 5 feet at the rim or 3s these last two seasons, their dribble drive games and how they move are similar, how they finish at the rim is similar (even though Cole still can't finish at all but the body control is similar), the role that Cole should be playing in the NBA is exactly the role D-Rose has been playing the last 2 yrs.

and no, Cole's is not really a true PG prospect at all at this point, he's got 1:1 assist to TO ratio which is not good at all if you're looking for a true lead guard, he's way more score first than pass at this point.

Rose 3PtR is under 200. He shoots half as many threes as Cole taken and as a prospect, it was similar for Rose compared to now.

Cole does have body control and touch, he's not finishing due to a lack of explosiveness, a need for craft, and highly congested traffic in the paint.

Lol! You are joking right, you are using ast/to ratio to determine who's a true PG or not? Yeah, I think we are done with conversation. Thanks

well, considering it's my opinion vs yours, yes, I'm actually using stats and evidence to back my opinion up, other than you who usually just ends up resorting to childish nonsense like pretending "LOL" is an argument...yes, Cole isn't a true a PG, anybody who has watched him this year knows he has a ways to go before he's a legitimate lead guard in the NBA.

even Coby White, who had serious questions marks as a lead guard in the same system, has a wayyyy better assist rate than Cole (5.2 assists per 36 compared to 4.0 assist per 36, and on much lower usage on top of it).

and good thing my comp to current D-Rose is a lot more than just 'who shoots more threes'.

Too much trolling to bother to take seriously. Have a good day clyde

[clyde21]

Can someone give me some names I should pay attention to that tankathon dosen't have up?

I've done most of my early work on the tankathon guys. I'm looking for some names that people think could be NBA contributes who tankathon dosen't have listed.

I know the big man from Arizona gets alot of love, anyone know his name or who else is a potential first round type of guy?

Oscar Tshiebwe
N'Faly Dante
Joe Wieskamp
Quentin Grimes
Tyrell Terry
Trayce Jackson-Davis
Darius Days
Terrence Shannon Jr.
Rayshaun Hammonds
Andrew Wiggins
Skylar Mays
Anton Watson
Romeo Weems
Lester Quinones
Jeremiah Robinson-Earl

a lot of these guys probably just end up returning tho.

[clyde21]

Rose 3PtR is under 200. He shoots half as many threes as Cole taken and as a prospect, it was similar for Rose compared to now.

Cole does have body control and touch, he's not finishing due to a lack of explosiveness, a need for craft, and highly congested traffic in the paint.

Lol! You are joking right, you are using ast/to ratio to determine who's a true PG or not? Yeah, I think we are done with conversation. Thanks

well, considering it's my opinion vs yours, yes, I'm actually using stats and evidence to back my opinion up, other than you who usually just ends up resorting to childish nonsense like pretending "LOL" is an argument...yes, Cole isn't a true a PG, anybody who has watched him this year knows he has a ways to go before he's a legitimate lead guard in the NBA.

even Coby White, who had serious questions marks as a lead guard in the same system, has a wayyyy better assist rate than Cole (5.2 assists per 36 compared to 4.0 assist per 36, and on much lower usage on top of it).

and good thing my comp to current D-Rose is a lot more than just 'who shoots more threes'.

Too much trolling to bother to take seriously. Have a good day clyde

[King Ken]

I love Nick Richards. One year in the G-League and he could be something in the NBA