Patrick McCaw is not a NBA caliber player

[Tor_Raps]

I have 0 respect for your basketball knowledge if you are actually defending mccaw playing 20 to 25 minutes a game.

There is 0 reason to play him ahead of many of the guys on our roster except trying to make others work harder in practice. No one would do that at the expense of hurting your actual team. We probably could have won 3 to 4 more games if McCaw was not playing ever. Spurs/blazers/thunder games come to mind.

[Ranger One]

The reasoning for McCaw's minutes this year that i heard on the radio recently is that he brings size, length and ball handling to the guard position which the raptors lack. Is this accurate or no?

[missionman]

The reasoning for McCaw's minutes this year that i heard on the radio recently is that he brings size, length and ball handling to the guard position which the raptors lack. Is this accurate or no?

Yes. Accurate (about length, that is. That's all it's accurate for tho)

[TPV]

Patrick McCaw played meaningful playoff minutes last year (and was not good). For better or for worse, he's going to be playing more playoff minutes than last year.

[niQ]

I have 0 respect for your basketball knowledge if you are actually defending mccaw playing 20 to 25 minutes a game.

There is 0 reason to play him ahead of many of the guys on our roster except trying to make others work harder in practice. No one would do that at the expense of hurting your actual team. We probably could have won 3 to 4 more games if McCaw was not playing ever. Spurs/blazers/thunder games come to mind.

So, are you basically saying you have 0 respect for Nick Nurse's basketball knowledge?

[Tor_Raps]

I have 0 respect for your basketball knowledge if you are actually defending mccaw playing 20 to 25 minutes a game.

There is 0 reason to play him ahead of many of the guys on our roster except trying to make others work harder in practice. No one would do that at the expense of hurting your actual team. We probably could have won 3 to 4 more games if McCaw was not playing ever. Spurs/blazers/thunder games come to mind.

So, are you basically saying you have 0 respect for Nick Nurse's basketball knowledge?

I was speaking from a fans perspective lol. I love nurse and masai but no one is perfect. You dont have to love everything these guys do.

By this logic, no one should have hated on carroll while he was here. But we had to trade a 1st and a 2nd round pick just to have someone accept him...

[Clay Davis]

McCaw supporters literally have one thing to cling to when trying to defend him and will defend that one thing to the death. There a better players on the bench that he's taking minutes from. It's pretty straightforward. I understand the logic behind why nurse plays him but it's not worth it at the end of the day.

People will argue "well guess what we went on a winning streak with mccaw so I guess that means nurse knows what he's doing." we also just destroyed Indiana without him. Plus we're missing norm and Gasol. Does that mean those guys are now meaningless too?

Point is mccaw shouldn't be playing end of story. Make Davis run point full time, experiment with other dudes like Matt thomas who provide more upside and actually have a useful elite skill that can make a difference in the playoffs . Enough is enough. Mccaws defense/point guard skills are not good enough to justify his minutes played. I honestly feel like we're the only team that can get away with playing him that much while still being good. That says a lot about the talent on our team.

But he's not purely a back-up point guard. It's not my fault people are too stupid to understand that he's used as a fill-in for three positions on the depth chart. Also, Davis does very well off-ball, scoring off of cuts and open 3s. If he's going to be getting a lot of quality burn on this team in our back-court it'll be as an off-ball player beside FVV or Lowry (which, you know, if you've actually been paying attention you'd see).

The fact that you can justify using a player that can't shoot as an off ball player is the problem with your logic.

?

I never said McCaw has usage as an off-ball player but I said Davis is. You're just making stuff up because you have no legs to stand on.

[Hero Ball]

I honestly thought after the championship run, this season was going to be a nice, enjoyable, and stress-free campaign and it has been, but having McCaw out there for half of every game is hard to watch. Even harder when you have people who see things that aren't there begging for more McCaw over superior players.

The McCaw Crew always grasping for straws when all box score and advanced stats both say he's bad. Trying to justify his time on the court because we're to believe he's an extra ball handler or a shooter who keeps the defense honest. They'll say he doesn't make many mistakes or how he got an amazing deflection that one time.

The latest pathetic praise I heard was his 50% distance shooting during the win streak. (1 attempt per game) That's some mental gymnastics. He's so bad that people have to come up with new euphemisms after every game because of how little he actually does on the floor.

On his alleged ball handling skills. I don't know what games you people are watching but his handle is shaky as hell even when he's not being pressured. In the OKC game that defensive scrub Schroeder stole the ball with only a bit of pressure. Then McCaw's "no mistakes, high BBIQ" kicked in and he fouled him for an and 1. That was part of the run that nearly cost the game. In the nearly blown Atlanta game, he literally fell on his ass twice when they sent a double team his way and he contributed a dumb foul and several turnovers even if he was only officially credited with 1 TO.

On his alleged floor spacing. Defenders routinely ignore him because nobody respects his shot and nobody expects he will shoot anyway. He voluntarily passes on layups. The opposition certainly weren't quaking in their boots over his lethal 3 PPG during the win streak.

Even saying he moves the ball is too generous. Why are people applauding the fact he already has his mind made up when he receives the ball on the perimeter? Any scrub can give the ball up to the guy next to them and not even look at the rim if that's the only thing they're thinking.

When you give up the ball right away without trying to do anything useful with it then of course turnovers will be low. Or as in the Atlanta game, he ran away from the ball or otherwise stood still or hid when his teammates were being trapped. Can't turn the ball over if you don't have the ball.

His low foul counts can be explained by how soft he plays on defense where he doesn't body up players or provide any physical resistance. When Siakam let's people dribble past him, it's bad defense but when McCaw does it, it's "funneling".

We have others say he plays more than the other guys because he has size to play forward. What use is that size if he doesn't play physical, doesn't rebound, doesn't box out... like that 5 game stretch over 110 minutes where he ripped down 3 total rebounds, 1 of which literally fell into his hands because Norm made a bad decision to go 1 on 2.

Those aren't even the worst parts of his game. It's how scared he looks on the court. He reminds me of great Raptors scrub Chris Jefferies who looked terrified on the court. I'd be far more forgiving if he played less like a coward and showed more gumption and fearlessness like TD or even last year's scrub extraordinaire Lorenzo. It's not just box stats and advanced stats that make him look bad, but the eye test says he sucks too.

McCaw should be seeing 5 minutes a game at best and only in garbage time.

[Raps in 4]

I have 0 respect for your basketball knowledge if you are actually defending mccaw playing 20 to 25 minutes a game.

There is 0 reason to play him ahead of many of the guys on our roster except trying to make others work harder in practice. No one would do that at the expense of hurting your actual team. We probably could have won 3 to 4 more games if McCaw was not playing ever. Spurs/blazers/thunder games come to mind.

So, are you basically saying you have 0 respect for Nick Nurse's basketball knowledge?

I have 0 respect for Nick Nurse playing McCaw 25 MPG. He is 100% wrong in doing so. There is not a single metric (traditional or advanced) that supports having him out there.

[Ivre]

Well. That’s not true. There is the win loss record. Which is excellent. And makes me think there is some degree of fallacy in this line of thinking. Also the title here. Like just as a heads up. The man is payed to play in the NBA. How do his pay checks count a a metric to worthiness?

[Randle McMurphy]

I honestly thought after the championship run, this season was going to be a nice, enjoyable, and stress-free campaign and it has been, but having McCaw out there for half of every game is hard to watch. Even harder when you have people who see things that aren't there begging for more McCaw over superior players.

The McCaw Crew always grasping for straws when all box score and advanced stats both say he's bad. Trying to justify his time on the court because we're to believe he's an extra ball handler or a shooter who keeps the defense honest. They'll say he doesn't make many mistakes or how he got an amazing deflection that one time.

The latest pathetic praise I heard was his 50% distance shooting during the win streak. (1 attempt per game) That's some mental gymnastics. He's so bad that people have to come up with new euphemisms after every game because of how little he actually does on the floor.

On his alleged ball handling skills. I don't know what games you people are watching but his handle is shaky as hell even when he's not being pressured. In the OKC game that defensive scrub Schroeder stole the ball with only a bit of pressure. Then McCaw's "no mistakes, high BBIQ" kicked in and he fouled him for an and 1. That was part of the run that nearly cost the game. In the nearly blown Atlanta game, he literally fell on his ass twice when they sent a double team his way and he contributed a dumb foul and several turnovers even if he was only officially credited with 1 TO.

On his alleged floor spacing. Defenders routinely ignore him because nobody respects his shot and nobody expects he will shoot anyway. He voluntarily passes on layups. The opposition certainly weren't quaking in their boots over his lethal 3 PPG during the win streak.

Even saying he moves the ball is too generous. Why are people applauding the fact he already has his mind made up when he receives the ball on the perimeter? Any scrub can give the ball up to the guy next to them and not even look at the rim if that's the only thing they're thinking.

When you give up the ball right away without trying to do anything useful with it then of course turnovers will be low. Or as in the Atlanta game, he ran away from the ball or otherwise stood still or hid when his teammates were being trapped. Can't turn the ball over if you don't have the ball.

His low foul counts can be explained by how soft he plays on defense where he doesn't body up players or provide any physical resistance. When Siakam let's people dribble past him, it's bad defense but when McCaw does it, it's "funneling".

We have others say he plays more than the other guys because he has size to play forward. What use is that size if he doesn't play physical, doesn't rebound, doesn't box out... like that 5 game stretch over 110 minutes where he ripped down 3 total rebounds, 1 of which literally fell into his hands because Norm made a bad decision to go 1 on 2.

Those aren't even the worst parts of his game. It's how scared he looks on the court. He reminds me of great Raptors scrub Chris Jefferies who looked terrified on the court. I'd be far more forgiving if he played less like a coward and showed more gumption and fearlessness like TD or even last year's scrub extraordinaire Lorenzo. It's not just box stats and advanced stats that make him look bad, but the eye test says he sucks too.

McCaw should be seeing 5 minutes a game at best and only in garbage time.

This is not only the best and most accurate post in this thread (other than perhaps the OP), but also the best and most accurate post on RealGM this season.

[rrdjutriurt]

Patrick couldn't even stick with the Cavs and their rather anemic roster. Even they saw little value there long term and quickly dispersed him. One play that comes to mind a couple months ago is when Fred saw him wide open on the perimeter while dribbling and passed to where he was no more, Patrick exploded out of there for no apparent reason only to see the ball go into the stands. The dismay on Fred's face was priceless and typical of how many people here seem to feel .

[WaltFrazier]

I have 0 respect for your basketball knowledge if you are actually defending mccaw playing 20 to 25 minutes a game.

There is 0 reason to play him ahead of many of the guys on our roster except trying to make others work harder in practice. No one would do that at the expense of hurting your actual team. We probably could have won 3 to 4 more games if McCaw was not playing ever. Spurs/blazers/thunder games come to mind.

So, are you basically saying you have 0 respect for Nick Nurse's basketball knowledge?

I was speaking from a fans perspective lol. I love nurse and masai but no one is perfect. You dont have to love everything these guys do.

So Nurse is doing this amazing job of coaching, dealing with injuries, designing awesome defensive schemes, making adjustments, putting a team without a superstar up high in the standings. But gee this same (by all accounts) brilliant coach, has this one blind spot where he plays one guy too much, even though all the expert fans on here know better than the coach. But only in this one area. It's weird.

It couldn't be that the coach knows and sees things that fans don't, could it?

[Tor_Raps]

So, are you basically saying you have 0 respect for Nick Nurse's basketball knowledge?

I was speaking from a fans perspective lol. I love nurse and masai but no one is perfect. You dont have to love everything these guys do.

So Nurse is doing this amazing job of coaching, dealing with injuries, designing awesome defensive schemes, making adjustments, putting a team without a superstar up high in the standings. But gee this same (by all accounts) brilliant coach, has this one blind spot where he plays one guy too much, even though all the expert fans on here know better than the coach. But only in this one area. It's weird.

It couldn't be that the coach knows and sees things that fans don't, could it?

How's it weird? He's a GREAT coach so far but no one is perfect, and clearly this is one area where Nurse seems to be in the minority.

Why did you remove my comments about Carroll? That example clearly holds weight. By your logic, anyone who criticized Carroll while he was a Raptor was deemed to be "weird." Guess us having to trade a 1st and 2nd round pick with him was for fun? Or was it validation that Carroll indeed sucked and we needed to move on.

Can't believe i have to argue this... should be common sense man lol.

[StopitLeo]

I was speaking from a fans perspective lol. I love nurse and masai but no one is perfect. You dont have to love everything these guys do.

So Nurse is doing this amazing job of coaching, dealing with injuries, designing awesome defensive schemes, making adjustments, putting a team without a superstar up high in the standings. But gee this same (by all accounts) brilliant coach, has this one blind spot where he plays one guy too much, even though all the expert fans on here know better than the coach. But only in this one area. It's weird.

It couldn't be that the coach knows and sees things that fans don't, could it?

How's it weird? He's a GREAT coach so far but no one is perfect, and clearly this is one area where Nurse seems to be in the minority.

Why did you remove my comments about Carroll? That example clearly holds weight. By your logic, anyone who criticized Carroll while he was a Raptor was deemed to be "weird." Guess us having to trade a 1st and 2nd round pick with him was for fun? Or was it validation that Carroll indeed sucked and we needed to move on.

Can't believe i have to argue this... should be common sense man lol.

Steve Kerr has spoken very highly of McCaw. I guess he was wrong too?

The Carroll signing was completely justified but getting hurt almost immediately took away his ability to do the things he was signed for. The 1st round pick was 29th overall, which is hardly a significant cost. Additionally, the value of 2nd round picks had/has diminished considerably.

The hate for McCaw is crazy. This reminds me of the board calling for Nurses' head when he continued to play FVV in the playoffs when he couldn't make a 3 to save his life.

[Tor_Raps]

So Nurse is doing this amazing job of coaching, dealing with injuries, designing awesome defensive schemes, making adjustments, putting a team without a superstar up high in the standings. But gee this same (by all accounts) brilliant coach, has this one blind spot where he plays one guy too much, even though all the expert fans on here know better than the coach. But only in this one area. It's weird.

It couldn't be that the coach knows and sees things that fans don't, could it?

How's it weird? He's a GREAT coach so far but no one is perfect, and clearly this is one area where Nurse seems to be in the minority.

Why did you remove my comments about Carroll? That example clearly holds weight. By your logic, anyone who criticized Carroll while he was a Raptor was deemed to be "weird." Guess us having to trade a 1st and 2nd round pick with him was for fun? Or was it validation that Carroll indeed sucked and we needed to move on.

Can't believe i have to argue this... should be common sense man lol.

Steve Kerr has spoken very highly of McCaw. I guess he was wrong too?

The Carroll signing was completely justified but getting hurt almost immediately took away his ability to do the things he was signed for. The 1st round pick was 29th overall, which is hardly a significant cost. Additionally, the value of 2nd round picks had/has diminished considerably.

The hate for McCaw is crazy. This reminds me of the board calling for Nurses' head when he continued to play FVV in the playoffs when he couldn't make a 3 to save his life.

Mccaw was playing with one of the greatest teams of all time (Curry/Klay/Durant/Green). Having him on the court for the Warriors is different than having him on the court for the current Raptors. We need to rely on all 5 of our players being weapons on both ends of the court because we do not have a true superstar. A weak link on our team hurts much more than a weak link on the warriors team.

I wasn't calling out the Carroll signing but more so his play during his time here. He was still starting for us and getting all sorts of playing regardless of him being damaged goods or not. But based on the arguments here, we shouldn't have criticized his play because our management/coaching staff was behind him getting playing time...

Regarding Fred, he actually proved throughout the year that he was a good player before his struggles in the playoffs. You can give a long leash to someone who has proven his worth to you before. Mccaw does not fit this category because he hasn't shown ANYTHING.

[J-Roc]

There are 11 raptors that are clearly and unarguably significantly better than McCaw.

McCaw might deserve the 12th spot, but might not. Any of brisset Watson miller might be able to beat him out for that spot too.

At 12:28am after we smoke the Pacers, this is what you're thinking about??

[everdiso]

There are 11 raptors that are clearly and unarguably significantly better than McCaw.

McCaw might deserve the 12th spot, but might not. Any of brisset Watson miller might be able to beat him out for that spot too.

At 12:28am after we smoke the Pacers, this is what you're thinking about??

Yep. Lying in bed, drifting off to slumberland, with a big smile on my face thanks to the dominance of the McCaw-free raptors.

[Alfred]

Steve Kerr has spoken very highly of McCaw. I guess he was wrong too?

"Hey Steve, what do you think about Patrick McCaw?"
"Oh, he's terrible, shouldn't even be in the league."

That's not going to happen. Kerr is a nice guy, he's going to compliment anyone playing for him, especially a guy who appears to train hard and have a positive attitude. You shouldn't expect an impartial opinion from a coach.

[Gold Dragon]

Steve Kerr has spoken very highly of McCaw. I guess he was wrong too?

"Hey Steve, what do you think about Patrick McCaw?"
"Oh, he's terrible, shouldn't even be in the league."

That's not going to happen. Kerr is a nice guy, he's going to compliment anyone playing for him, especially a guy who appears to train hard and have a positive attitude. You shouldn't expect an impartial opinion from a coach.

Which is more valuable? The allegedly impartial opinions of a group of realgm forum members or the partial opinions of the two coaches with the highest win % in the history of the game?

I’m interested in his partial opinion of McCaw.

“Not really,” Kerr said. “Patrick is a very good player. Modern-day NBA wing with long arms, a good defender. So I’ve always liked Patrick – everybody here – coaches, management, players liked him.”

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/10/warriors-report-steve-kerr-isnt-surprised-by-patrick-mccaws-free-agency-decision

His partial opinion is also shown in him starting 20 games as a rookie getting 15mpg, getting nba finals minutes and being on his way to increasing those numbers before having a serious back injury in his sophomore year.

Of course he really felt that Patrick is the worst player in the league and can’t play defense but was just propping him up because he had to as his coach.

I agree that McCaw is a bad offensive player and has plenty of flaws and is an overall worse player than Davis. But there is a reason he plays in the nba as much as he does on good teams. If you can’t see it, maybe it’s not two likely HOF coaches who are being partial.