MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

Homer38 · Post #781 » by **Homer38** » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:12 pm

The race is over since a long time ago…..Giannis has a all-time great regular season so far.

Post #782 » by **ken6199** » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:40 pm

rzzzzz wrote:Embiid got 17 touches in the paint last night (finally!) and had 49/14. can only imagine what he could do if he played old school center most of the time.

rzzzzz · Post #783 » by **rzzzzz** » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:52 pm

wow. not much Biid love, huh? guess Giannis and Nick Nurse screwed up the All Star game. to the uninitiated, JoJo seemed to be doing a good job in the 4th qtr against LeBron, AD, KL, etc., but i'm sure folks here could easily show how the Freak's team would have easily romped if only they had benched the big guy.

MrPerfect1 · Post #784 » by **MrPerfect1** » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:42 pm

rzzzzz wrote:wow. not much Biid love, huh? guess Giannis and Nick Nurse screwed up the All Star game. to the uninitiated, JoJo seemed to be doing a good job in the 4th qtr against LeBron, AD, KL, etc., but i'm sure folks here could easily show how the Freak's team would have easily romped if only they had benched the big guy.

He has too many games where he goes 5-18, or scores 0 points, or plays S O F T. It'd be nice if his play would consistently match his talk

SeniorWalker · Post #785 » by **SeniorWalker** » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:59 pm

Colbinii wrote:
SeniorWalker wrote:In what sense? Do you believe that a LeBron with no AD team would be doing anywhere near what they are now?

I do not believe that but I do believe that a team with AD and no LeBron is significantly worse than the team would be with LeBron and no AD. Again, this isn't even a discussion about goodness or how great LeBron or AD is compared to the other. This is a discussion about what LeBron gives the Lakers that AD doesn't and how LeBron's skill-set can't be replaced while part of what AD does can be replaced/replicated.

Cause we saw a lot of that last year. And this LeBron looks even more diminished in scoring ability, though still a great player.

Sure, LeBron's scoring ability is somewhat diminished but his playmaking ability and comfort level in a playmaking role has never been higher in his career. His shot has been inconsistent [career low from midrange] and yet he is still right around league average efficiency even though he has been assisted on a career low percentage of shots. LeBron is still tasked with taking a lot of late shot clock shots and very "low quality" shots an offensive superstar is tasked with against good defenses.

LeBron is the Lakers MVP but not the MVP of the league.

I understand that but this isn't some factoid, there isn't a standard definition of what the "League MVP is". Some people could view MVP as what player could make most teams in the NBA better. Some others could look at MVP and go "What team loses the most when Player X isn't on the team". It gets very difficult to define MVP as we all have different views and opinions on what an MVP is.

AD does not get the credit he deserves for leading the team in scoring and defense. He is a fairly close second on that team in importance and this will show even more in the playoffs.

I am not sure if he is a close second but he is a clear-cut 2nd. Most line-up data we have suggests Lebron is far and away the driving force of the Lakers. Whether part of that is skewed because of the way the team has been constructed lends itself to a different type of discussion. I think it is quite clear when watching the games you have LeBron, a gap, Davis, a gap, and then everyone else.

Fair point but a lot of that depends on who the point guard is. In LeBron's career, one constant I've noticed is that his quality back up point guard/facilitator options are almost always non existent, which is why his teams tend to fall apart without him on the floor compared to most other ATGs. This Lakers team with a starter level PG in place of LeBron and a few other minor issues addressed, I don't think does too badly. Similar to Davis pelicans teams actually.

Baski · Post #786 » by **Baski** » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:04 pm

bballgod07 wrote:
mediocrityrules wrote:Giannis has 12 games this season of 30+ points, 15+ rebounds and 5+ assists.

The rest of the league has 10.

3 of those 12 games from Giannis were done in less than 30 minutes.

These are insane stats.

Harden average 35ppg, the rest of the league has 0.
Also, today the water is blue.
These are insane stats.

Hilarious how that exact statline is supposed to mean anything. Surely Giannis had at least 15 cases for MVP than that.

Colbinii · Post #787 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:21 pm

SeniorWalker wrote:Fair point but a lot of that depends on who the point guard is. In LeBron's career, one constant I've noticed is that his quality back up point guard/facilitator options are almost always non existent, which is why his teams tend to fall apart without him on the floor compared to most other ATGs. This Lakers team with a starter level PG in place of LeBron and a few other minor issues addressed, I don't think does too badly. Similar to Davis pelicans teams actually.

What is a "Starter Level Point Guard"?

The difference between Davis Pelicans teams and this team is huge though.

In 2018 the Pelicans were 1.48 SRS, 2017 -1.69 SRS, 2016 -3.56 and 2015 1.13.

The Lakers are at 7.60 SRS.

BloodNinja · Post #788 » by **BloodNinja** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:58 am

MrPerfect1 wrote:
rzzzzz wrote:wow. not much Biid love, huh? guess Giannis and Nick Nurse screwed up the All Star game. to the uninitiated, JoJo seemed to be doing a good job in the 4th qtr against LeBron, AD, KL, etc., but i'm sure folks here could easily show how the Freak's team would have easily romped if only they had benched the big guy.

He has too many games where he goes 5-18, or scores 0 points, or plays S O F T. It'd be nice if his play would consistently match his talk

Milwaukee 5-17; 17 points
Milwaukee 6-26; 19 points
Boston 1-11; 11 points
Orlando 8-21; 24 points
Toronto 3-7; 10 points
Toronto 0-11; 0 points
NYK 7-19; 23 points
Denver 6-17; 19 points
Utah 5-16; 27 points
New Orleans 6-16; 24 Points
Boston 5-14; 15 points
OKC 7-17; 18 points
Houston 7-17; 20 points
Miami 8-19; 22 points

rzzzzz · Post #789 » by **rzzzzz** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:59 pm

MrPerfect1 wrote:
rzzzzz wrote:wow. not much Biid love, huh? guess Giannis and Nick Nurse screwed up the All Star game. to the uninitiated, JoJo seemed to be doing a good job in the 4th qtr against LeBron, AD, KL, etc., but i'm sure folks here could easily show how the Freak's team would have easily romped if only they had benched the big guy.

He has too many games where he goes 5-18, or scores 0 points, or plays S O F T. It'd be nice if his play would consistently match his talk

and you don't think a good coach, playing him more consistently on the block, using sort of obvious offensive conceits as PnRs would help? guess that's why they let Jimmy walk. that's what he wanted. (what ever happened to him?)

Homer38 · Post #790 » by **Homer38** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:04 pm

Giannis will be the MVP and this is a no brainer but right now LeBron is the clear cut second for the MVP.

Colbinii · Post #791 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:21 pm

rzzzzz wrote:
MrPerfect1 wrote:
rzzzzz wrote:wow. not much Biid love, huh? guess Giannis and Nick Nurse screwed up the All Star game. to the uninitiated, JoJo seemed to be doing a good job in the 4th qtr against LeBron, AD, KL, etc., but i'm sure folks here could easily show how the Freak's team would have easily romped if only they had benched the big guy.

He has too many games where he goes 5-18, or scores 0 points, or plays S O F T. It'd be nice if his play would consistently match his talk

and you don't think a good coach, playing him more consistently on the block, using sort of obvious offensive conceits as PnRs would help? guess that's why they let Jimmy walk. that's what he wanted. (what ever happened to him?)

What ever happened to Jimmy?
Is that tongue-in-cheek or do you not follow the NBA?

Butler is leading a team many expected to miss the playoffs to a top 5 seed.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #792 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:08 pm

rzzzzz wrote:
MrPerfect1 wrote:
rzzzzz wrote:wow. not much Biid love, huh? guess Giannis and Nick Nurse screwed up the All Star game. to the uninitiated, JoJo seemed to be doing a good job in the 4th qtr against LeBron, AD, KL, etc., but i'm sure folks here could easily show how the Freak's team would have easily romped if only they had benched the big guy.

He has too many games where he goes 5-18, or scores 0 points, or plays S O F T. It'd be nice if his play would consistently match his talk

and you don't think a good coach, playing him more consistently on the block, using sort of obvious offensive conceits as PnRs would help? guess that's why they let Jimmy walk. that's what he wanted. (what ever happened to him?)

1. Might not be up to the coach. They are pretty screwed with Horford and Simmons. You can't trade Horford, so you trade Simmons? Right now, the biggest fault of Brown is letting Embiid shoot 40% from mid-range on high-volume. If he is going to do that, at least move him to the 3-point line for spacing.
2. If they play him down, will he have the intensity to stay down there. He seems beat up and tired by the fourth every time I watch him. I'm not sure he has the current conditioning to do that 80 games a year.

LikeABosh · Post #793 » by **LikeABosh** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:25 pm

Homer38 wrote:Giannis will be the MVP and this is a no brainer but right now LeBron is the clear cut second for the MVP.

Yeah, if the Bucks weren't having such a historic season I think LeBron would normally win it. On pace for 64 wins

SeniorWalker · Post #794 » by **SeniorWalker** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:23 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
Homer38 wrote:Giannis will be the MVP and this is a no brainer but right now LeBron is the clear cut second for the MVP.

Yeah, if the Bucks weren't having such a historic season I think LeBron would normally win it. On pace for 64 wins

I mean, even if the bucks were to just get 60-65 games he still has a clear and significant statistical superiority over Bron. Bron just isnt as good of a regular season player as Giannis now.

I do think the race would be a lot closer though.

Ron Swanson · Post #795 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:27 pm

He's annihilating Lebron in every metric except on/off and box score assists. Even if the Bucks were on pace to only win 56-58 games, Giannis would still be the easy front-runner.

LikeABosh · Post #796 » by **LikeABosh** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:42 am

SeniorWalker wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
Homer38 wrote:Giannis will be the MVP and this is a no brainer but right now LeBron is the clear cut second for the MVP.

Yeah, if the Bucks weren't having such a historic season I think LeBron would normally win it. On pace for 64 wins

I mean, even if the bucks were to just get 60-65 games he still has a clear and significant statistical superiority over Bron. Bron just isnt as good of a regular season player as Giannis now.

I do think the race would be a lot closer though.

Giannis is part of that historic season. You'd usually expect the best player on the 64 win team to win MVP. That's why I'm agreeing with that user saying LeBron is the clear cut 2nd

rzzzzz · Post #797 » by **rzzzzz** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:52 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote: biggest fault of Brown is letting Embiid shoot

now that they've finally got rid of the attention seeking, underperforming "all stars", Brown has the opportunity to show the world his strategy chops, running the young talent he's developed in the purely uptempo, modern game schemes that he has always preferred to age old half-court sets.

Colbinii · Post #798 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:42 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:He's annihilating Lebron in every metric except on/off and box score assists. Even if the Bucks were on pace to only win 56-58 games, Giannis would still be the easy front-runner.

And RPM and OBPM.

The Bucks would be on pace to win 56-58 games with Giannis playing 0 games. I don't think he would be the frontrunner playing 0 games.

bballgod07 · Post #799 » by **bballgod07** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:41 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
Homer38 wrote:Giannis will be the MVP and this is a no brainer but right now LeBron is the clear cut second for the MVP.

Yeah, if the Bucks weren't having such a historic season I think LeBron would normally win it. On pace for 64 wins

Why is Lebron even in the race? The guy missed the playoffs last year. The person that deserve it more is AD. AD is the reason why the lakers are in top and without him, Lebum would just be at home on the couch again this year.

Homer38 · Post #800 » by **Homer38** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:45 pm

bballgod07 wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
Homer38 wrote:Giannis will be the MVP and this is a no brainer but right now LeBron is the clear cut second for the MVP.

Yeah, if the Bucks weren't having such a historic season I think LeBron would normally win it. On pace for 64 wins

Why is Lebron even in the race? The guy missed the playoffs last year. The person that deserve it more is AD. AD is the reason why the lakers are in top and without him, Lebum would just be at home on the couch again this year.

The MVP is for 2020,not for the 2019 season...AD missed the playoffs last year too.

Who is your pick for the 2019-20 MVP?