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Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely!

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Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely!

YAY - This is great News - Thibs will be good for us overall
15
13%
OKAY - He's not perfect ,but better than what we have and we'll benefit somewhat
39
34%
MEH I'm skeptical but will give it a chance
20
17%
NAY Thibs sucks for where we are and what we are trying to accomplish
41
36%
 
Total votes: 115

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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#201 » by NYKAL » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:01 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Here is Coach Nick's take on how ICE works



Any thoughts on if it's still a viable defense? I mean, 5 years ago isn't THAT long ago, but there is a still more 3 point shooting. Meaning, I wonder if it still works percentage wise.


And his record in Minnesota was poor. I believe he only had 1 season over 500. The only time his defense looked good, he had VERY GOOD defensive players. Taj, Butler, Noah, ect. We have NONE. He will yell and scream (he has a penchant for that) and in the end, fail here to if he comes with the mentality he's had in the past.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#202 » by 2018C3 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:16 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
2018C3 wrote:To be honest, I have always considered the Knicks a rival, and a team I like to root against.

Both of are organizations are now in the toilet, and obvious changes need to made. What bothers me is your team is actively making changes, and my favorite team has not yet took the same step.

To continue my honesty, I think you guys have recently made positive moves starting with a new GM. I'm actually a little jealous. If yoiu get Thibs also, I will be even more so.


respect.

what do you miss about thibs? love getting bulls fan perspective. so far the wolves fans who have come here have been laughing at the idea.



I think this is where Wolves fans had a problem with Thibs: Thibs can be a stouborn guy, and when he was given full control he went a little wild and tried to bring in too many past Bulls players. As a GM he had a level of comfort with the guys he developed, and tried to transfer that same culture into a new organziation. Maybe he was a little short sighted when he had the respocibillities of both coach and gm. He was too emotionaly attached to the previous guys he invested so much time in.

I think its imprtant to seperate Thibs as a Coach, and Thibs as a Gm.

As a coach only, he was able able to dedicate his tallents into what he is great at. If you followed those Bulls teams, it seemed no matter what was thrown at him. He somehow found a way to put those players in the best possible situation to win,

We went from a team based around prime Rose to John Lucas / Nate / and D.J. Agustin in consecutive years, and hardly missed a step. If you look at the other names on those rosters your not going to see a championship level team. Those team should never have been as good at they were. Thibs Bulls were over acheivers. That is what I respect most about his coaching abilities, "He over acheives with what he is given".

His downfall as the Bulls coach happened when Jimmy Butler started to exstablish himself as a leader. At the time there was a conflict with the previous guys who had success, (Like Noah and possibly Rose although that is debateable). Jimmy was the clear cut best player, but some of the previous guys were strugling to accept his new alfa role.

For the first time in years fingers started to get pointed, and our front office desired more credit for the organizations previous success, at the time all accolades of achievement were pointed at Thibs. In this tranistion period the teams record took a step back, and the front office fired Thibs beleiving he was the problem, and brought the same team back the following year. After Thibs departure they were quickly humbled as are win total declined, and we have had very poor coaches ever since that move was made.

Much has been said about his use of players, and injuries. But one thing to note, is the Bulls have continued to be plagued by injuries even after he left. Maybe the finger was pointed in the wrong dirrection!
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#203 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:10 pm

NYKAL wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Here is Coach Nick's take on how ICE works



Any thoughts on if it's still a viable defense? I mean, 5 years ago isn't THAT long ago, but there is a still more 3 point shooting. Meaning, I wonder if it still works percentage wise.


And his record in Minnesota was poor. I believe he only had 1 season over 500. The only time his defense looked good, he had VERY GOOD defensive players. Taj, Butler, Noah, ect. We have NONE. He will yell and scream (he has a penchant for that) and in the end, fail here to if he comes with the mentality he's had in the past.


Thanks for that input on ICE.

So, about a dozen of my other posts on Thibs covers that coaches aren't moving the needle that much. Unless you have some magical coaching choice you think would be better - though probably not - taking the the tack that the roster sucks so who cares.

That isn't incorrect. If the roster isn't good, the coaching won't look that great.

Thibs is a good coach of a certain kind. Which only matters if the team is decent. I'd say he's probably a better coach than Miller, and if he gets paid a lot more, it's Dolan's money and I don't care.

When Thibs has decent players, he delivers. The chicago tribune article I think covers what he accomplished. He's not going to "savior" the team.

Again, for like the 4th time I've posted - it'll matter only if the FO gets players in who are good, that make sense, and then make sense for a Thib coached team, though the first characteristic is the most important.

It'll help if the FO and whichever coach are in sync too. Though even that I think is secondary to the FO ability to assess and acquire talent.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#204 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:18 pm

NYKAL wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Here is Coach Nick's take on how ICE works



Any thoughts on if it's still a viable defense? I mean, 5 years ago isn't THAT long ago, but there is a still more 3 point shooting. Meaning, I wonder if it still works percentage wise.


And his record in Minnesota was poor. I believe he only had 1 season over 500. The only time his defense looked good, he had VERY GOOD defensive players. Taj, Butler, Noah, ect. We have NONE. He will yell and scream (he has a penchant for that) and in the end, fail here to if he comes with the mentality he's had in the past.


ICE is no longer really viable. It was only viable for about a year. All they do is rescreen and the guard is in the middle of the floor.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#205 » by NYKAL » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:25 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
NYKAL wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Here is Coach Nick's take on how ICE works



Any thoughts on if it's still a viable defense? I mean, 5 years ago isn't THAT long ago, but there is a still more 3 point shooting. Meaning, I wonder if it still works percentage wise.


And his record in Minnesota was poor. I believe he only had 1 season over 500. The only time his defense looked good, he had VERY GOOD defensive players. Taj, Butler, Noah, ect. We have NONE. He will yell and scream (he has a penchant for that) and in the end, fail here to if he comes with the mentality he's had in the past.


ICE is no longer really viable. It was only viable for about a year. All they do is rescreen and the guard is in the middle of the floor.


lmao, I forgot about that. Dude used to scream that over and over
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#206 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:29 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
NYKAL wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Here is Coach Nick's take on how ICE works



Any thoughts on if it's still a viable defense? I mean, 5 years ago isn't THAT long ago, but there is a still more 3 point shooting. Meaning, I wonder if it still works percentage wise.


And his record in Minnesota was poor. I believe he only had 1 season over 500. The only time his defense looked good, he had VERY GOOD defensive players. Taj, Butler, Noah, ect. We have NONE. He will yell and scream (he has a penchant for that) and in the end, fail here to if he comes with the mentality he's had in the past.


ICE is no longer really viable. It was only viable for about a year. All they do is rescreen and the guard is in the middle of the floor.


I was wondering. It seems somewhat vulnerable to 3's, which might not be an issue when teams were taking 15 a game instead of 30
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#207 » by NYKAL » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:35 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
NYKAL wrote:
And his record in Minnesota was poor. I believe he only had 1 season over 500. The only time his defense looked good, he had VERY GOOD defensive players. Taj, Butler, Noah, ect. We have NONE. He will yell and scream (he has a penchant for that) and in the end, fail here to if he comes with the mentality he's had in the past.


ICE is no longer really viable. It was only viable for about a year. All they do is rescreen and the guard is in the middle of the floor.


I was wondering. It seems somewhat vulnerable to 3's, which might not be an issue when teams were taking 15 a game instead of 30


that is what Minnesota fans were complaining about. They were terrible at guarding the 3, ever arguable worse than we were
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#208 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:43 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
NYKAL wrote:
And his record in Minnesota was poor. I believe he only had 1 season over 500. The only time his defense looked good, he had VERY GOOD defensive players. Taj, Butler, Noah, ect. We have NONE. He will yell and scream (he has a penchant for that) and in the end, fail here to if he comes with the mentality he's had in the past.


ICE is no longer really viable. It was only viable for about a year. All they do is rescreen and the guard is in the middle of the floor.


I was wondering. It seems somewhat vulnerable to 3's, which might not be an issue when teams were taking 15 a game instead of 30


It's vulnerable to the pick and pop, the rescreen, the skip pass. It was just new at the time, but the offence has overtaken it. I mean just go back and rescreen and the whole middle of the floor is open.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#209 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:46 pm

NYKAL wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
ICE is no longer really viable. It was only viable for about a year. All they do is rescreen and the guard is in the middle of the floor.


I was wondering. It seems somewhat vulnerable to 3's, which might not be an issue when teams were taking 15 a game instead of 30


that is what Minnesota fans were complaining about. They were terrible at guarding the 3, ever arguable worse than we were


How much of that is the personnel though?

I'd assume he's not completely wedded to it. Who knows.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#210 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:47 pm

You're pretty much stuck switching right now.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#211 » by Jay10 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:48 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
NYKAL wrote:
And his record in Minnesota was poor. I believe he only had 1 season over 500. The only time his defense looked good, he had VERY GOOD defensive players. Taj, Butler, Noah, ect. We have NONE. He will yell and scream (he has a penchant for that) and in the end, fail here to if he comes with the mentality he's had in the past.


ICE is no longer really viable. It was only viable for about a year. All they do is rescreen and the guard is in the middle of the floor.


I was wondering. It seems somewhat vulnerable to 3's, which might not be an issue when teams were taking 15 a game instead of 30

The Bucks are giving up the most attempted 3 pointers this season.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#212 » by prophet_of_rage » Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:25 am

Jay10 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
ICE is no longer really viable. It was only viable for about a year. All they do is rescreen and the guard is in the middle of the floor.


I was wondering. It seems somewhat vulnerable to 3's, which might not be an issue when teams were taking 15 a game instead of 30

The Bucks are giving up the most attempted 3 pointers this season.



The Bucks bait you into long shots from 23'9 up against the shot clock. There is a difference.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#213 » by Jay10 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:50 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Jay10 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
I was wondering. It seems somewhat vulnerable to 3's, which might not be an issue when teams were taking 15 a game instead of 30

The Bucks are giving up the most attempted 3 pointers this season.



The Bucks bait you into long shots from 23'9 up against the shot clock. There is a difference.

They are doing the exact thing Fizdale had the Knicks doing in the beginning of the season, when he had the team defending the paint and giving up 3 pointers.

The problem is the Knicks don't have enough defensive players to limit the opposing team from getting close to the rim.

The Raptors give up the 2nd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Heat give up the 3rd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Clippers give up the 4th most attempted 3 pointers.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#214 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:55 am

Jay10 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Jay10 wrote:The Bucks are giving up the most attempted 3 pointers this season.



The Bucks bait you into long shots from 23'9 up against the shot clock. There is a difference.

The Raptors give up the 2nd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Heat give up the 3rd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Clippers give up the 4th most attempted 3 pointers.


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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#215 » by prophet_of_rage » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:17 am

Jay10 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Jay10 wrote:The Bucks are giving up the most attempted 3 pointers this season.



The Bucks bait you into long shots from 23'9 up against the shot clock. There is a difference.

They are doing the exact thing Fizdale had the Knicks doing in the beginning of the season, when he had the team defending the paint and giving up 3 pointers.

The problem is the Knicks don't have enough defensive players to limit the opposing team from getting close to the rim.

The Raptors give up the 2nd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Heat give up the 3rd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Clippers give up the 4th most attempted 3 pointers.
I agree. But those teams do not ICE. ICE gives up good looks from 3 not forces.

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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#216 » by bearadonisdna » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:16 am

prophet_of_rage wrote:
Jay10 wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:

The Bucks bait you into long shots from 23'9 up against the shot clock. There is a difference.

They are doing the exact thing Fizdale had the Knicks doing in the beginning of the season, when he had the team defending the paint and giving up 3 pointers.

The problem is the Knicks don't have enough defensive players to limit the opposing team from getting close to the rim.

The Raptors give up the 2nd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Heat give up the 3rd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Clippers give up the 4th most attempted 3 pointers.
I agree. But those teams do not ICE. ICE gives up good looks from 3 not forces.

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Yes i do remember ice and another caveat to his defense is that the wings are interchangeable and are responsible for being the 1st men down on transition defense.
He will need personnel to execute this. His defense is a man with zone concepts.

Minnesota didnt have exactly have servicable defense wings or a rim protector to amplify Ice effectiveness. We are looking at wiggins and towns who are unlikely to execute any defense system.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#217 » by NoStatsGuy » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:15 am

god please no..thibs loses locker rooms everytime
im bout dat action boss
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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#218 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:09 pm

bearadonisdna wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:
Jay10 wrote:They are doing the exact thing Fizdale had the Knicks doing in the beginning of the season, when he had the team defending the paint and giving up 3 pointers.

The problem is the Knicks don't have enough defensive players to limit the opposing team from getting close to the rim.

The Raptors give up the 2nd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Heat give up the 3rd most attempted 3 pointers.
The Clippers give up the 4th most attempted 3 pointers.
I agree. But those teams do not ICE. ICE gives up good looks from 3 not forces.

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Yes i do remember ice and another caveat to his defense is that the wings are interchangeable and are responsible for being the 1st men down on transition defense.
He will need personnel to execute this. His defense is a man with zone concepts.

Minnesota didnt have exactly have servicable defense wings or a rim protector to amplify Ice effectiveness. We are looking at wiggins and towns who are unlikely to execute any defense system.
You say that but Covington, Teague, Butler, Dieng, Gibson, Rose etc were all three under Thibs.

The scary thing was his offence was basically 90s Knicks wing post ups and isos.

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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#219 » by iLLmatic860 » Fri Mar 6, 2020 8:53 pm

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Re: Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely! 

Post#220 » by Knicksfan20 » Fri Mar 6, 2020 9:47 pm

DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:
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Soft ass players cant play basketball for 40 mins. Try roofing 8-12 hours a day

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