Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[gambitx777]

That would be worse that using Brad to move John's contract with no assets coming back

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[dckingsfan]

I’m starting to think Beals trade value this offseason could be at all-time high...

What would Beal, Brown and one of Bryant/Wagner fetch?

If we wanted to trade Bradley Beal, why would we want to trade Brown, Bryant and/or Wagner?

We might not - my thinking is Brown is not our coaches favorite (and even though it has been covered before) Wagner or Bryant could be redundant.

So, more of a question not a statement that we should trade those three...

[payitforward]

Got it.

I'm not sure Beal's trade value will be at an "all-time high" this off-season. He's not having a great year overall, despite scoring more than ever. But... maybe that's all GMs will look at; maybe they'll assume that whatever deficits exist compared to last year are a function of the load he's having to carry on a team full of kids.

Still, trading Beal, Brown, & one of Bryant or Wagner would signal a full rebuild, wouldn't it? I can't imagine the trade bringing back current players able to help us do better than we are now. We'd have to be trading for future potential -- i.e. picks, etc. No?

[DCZards]

What would Beal, Brown and one of Bryant/Wagner fetch?

If we wanted to trade Bradley Beal, why would we want to trade Brown, Bryant and/or Wagner?

We might not - my thinking is Brown is not our coaches favorite (and even though it has been covered before) Wagner or Bryant could be redundant.

So, more of a question not a statement that we should trade those three...

Brown is too good, too young and too important to the future of this franchise to trade him based on a perception as to how a coach feels about him, especially a coach who might not even be here after next season.

[nate33]

Got it.

I'm not sure Beal's trade value will be at an "all-time high" this off-season. He's not having a great year overall, despite scoring more than ever. But... maybe that's all GMs will look at; maybe they'll assume that whatever deficits exist compared to last year are a function of the load he's having to carry on a team full of kids.

Still, trading Beal, Brown, & one of Bryant or Wagner would signal a full rebuild, wouldn't it? I can't imagine the trade bringing back current players able to help us do better than we are now. We'd have to be trading for future potential -- i.e. picks, etc. No?

I think it's a pretty good bet that his value is at an all time high.

It's true that his efficiency has declined very slightly, but GMs are smart enough to understand his usage and his role on the team. It's a monumental feat to score 30+ PPG on an above-league-average efficiency when you are starting games alongside guys like Mahinmi, Bonga and Ish/Isaiah/Naipier. They also know that Beal has shown he can defend in spurts and has been able to defend in the past, so his poor overall defensive numbers this year are likely a result of him having to bear so much of the offensive burden. He hasn't forgotten how to defend.

I'm sure GMs recognize that if Beal played alongside some other offensive threats, he could score 23-25 points a game on elite efficiency with above average defense - making him an ideal 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship roster.

Beal's trade value this summer is surely higher than it was last summer, because he's still young, he's still locked up for 2 years, and he has demonstrated his team-carrying offensive ability for multiple years now.

[nate33]

I caught a bit of Fred Katz's Wizards After Dark podcast where he was in a roundtable discussion with Howard Beck.

Beck proposed the Beal for Simmons trade that I've been championing for 2 months now. Beck thinks it's a massive win-win for both teams. Everyone agreed that Philly would benefit though some wondered how Wall and Simmons can co-exist in DC. (I personally don't care how they would co-exist. We are past the time when we need to worry about building around Wall.)

I would love to see a future lineup featuring a bunch of versatile 6-7 to 6-9 guys switching everything: Simmons, Brown, Bertans, Hachimura, and Bonga. It'll look pretty good if Bonga, Brown and Hachimura continue to hone their 3-point shots. Sprinkle in some John Wall, Thomas Bryant, Mo Wagner and our 2020 lotto pick and it could get interesting as they develop.

It starts at the 43:20 mark of this podcast:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jerome-robinson-is-wizards-hero-wizards-deep-dive-dave/id1437086160?i=1000466847176

[payitforward]

Got it.

I'm not sure Beal's trade value will be at an "all-time high" this off-season. He's not having a great year overall, despite scoring more than ever. But... maybe that's all GMs will look at; maybe they'll assume that whatever deficits exist compared to last year are a function of the load he's having to carry on a team full of kids.

Still, trading Beal, Brown, & one of Bryant or Wagner would signal a full rebuild, wouldn't it? I can't imagine the trade bringing back current players able to help us do better than we are now. We'd have to be trading for future potential -- i.e. picks, etc. No?

I think it's a pretty good bet that his value is at an all time high.

It's true that his efficiency has declined very slightly, but GMs are smart enough to understand his usage and his role on the team. It's a monumental feat to score 30+ PPG on an above-league-average efficiency when you are starting games alongside guys like Mahinmi, Bonga and Ish/Isaiah/Naipier. They also know that Beal has shown he can defend in spurts and has been able to defend in the past, so his poor overall defensive numbers this year are likely a result of him having to bear so much of the offensive burden. He hasn't forgotten how to defend.

I'm sure GMs recognize that if Beal played alongside some other offensive threats, he could score 23-25 points a game on elite efficiency with above average defense - making him an ideal 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship roster.

Beal's trade value this summer is surely higher than it was last summer, because he's still young, he's still locked up for 2 years, and he has demonstrated his team-carrying offensive ability for multiple years now.

Yes, these are all very good points; I think you are right.

But... I don't think we're likely to trade him; do you?

[nate33]

Got it.

I'm not sure Beal's trade value will be at an "all-time high" this off-season. He's not having a great year overall, despite scoring more than ever. But... maybe that's all GMs will look at; maybe they'll assume that whatever deficits exist compared to last year are a function of the load he's having to carry on a team full of kids.

Still, trading Beal, Brown, & one of Bryant or Wagner would signal a full rebuild, wouldn't it? I can't imagine the trade bringing back current players able to help us do better than we are now. We'd have to be trading for future potential -- i.e. picks, etc. No?

I think it's a pretty good bet that his value is at an all time high.

It's true that his efficiency has declined very slightly, but GMs are smart enough to understand his usage and his role on the team. It's a monumental feat to score 30+ PPG on an above-league-average efficiency when you are starting games alongside guys like Mahinmi, Bonga and Ish/Isaiah/Naipier. They also know that Beal has shown he can defend in spurts and has been able to defend in the past, so his poor overall defensive numbers this year are likely a result of him having to bear so much of the offensive burden. He hasn't forgotten how to defend.

I'm sure GMs recognize that if Beal played alongside some other offensive threats, he could score 23-25 points a game on elite efficiency with above average defense - making him an ideal 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship roster.

Beal's trade value this summer is surely higher than it was last summer, because he's still young, he's still locked up for 2 years, and he has demonstrated his team-carrying offensive ability for multiple years now.

Yes, these are all very good points; I think you are right.

But... I don't think we're likely to trade him; do you?

No. I don't.

The only way we trade him is if Beal quietly approaches the front office and says, "Hey guys, I think I made a mistake signing that extension. I don't want to play my entire prime on a team that is this far away from contending. If you guys could swing a trade to a team with a chance of contending, I'd appreciate it."

A Beal for Simmons trade is just begging to happen.

[DCZards]

I caught a bit of Fred Katz's Wizards After Dark podcast where he was in a roundtable discussion with Howard Beck.

Beck proposed the Beal for Simmons trade that I've been championing for 2 months now. Beck thinks it's a massive win-win for both teams. Everyone agreed that Philly would benefit though some wondered how Wall and Simmons can co-exist in DC. (I personally don't care how they would co-exist. We are past the time when we need to worry about building around Wall.)

I would love to see a future lineup featuring a bunch of versatile 6-7 to 6-9 guys switching everything: Simmons, Brown, Bertans, Hachimura, and Bonga. It'll look pretty good if Bonga, Brown and Hachimura continue to hone their 3-point shots. Sprinkle in some John Wall, Thomas Bryant, Mo Wagner and our 2020 lotto pick and it could get interesting as they develop.

It starts at the 43:20 mark of this podcast:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jerome-robinson-is-wizards-hero-wizards-deep-dive-dave/id1437086160?i=1000466847176

Good discussion. If Beal asks for a trade this offseason I'd be happy to trade him for Simmons who (if healthy) is an outstanding player on both ends of the court. That would be some legit value for Beal.

I remain concerned about Simmons' fit with Wall. It's a mistake to downplay that or to ignore Wall's likely ability to be much more productive playing next to Beal as opposed to Simmons. (If you're going to pay someone $40 mil a year you should certainly try to create a situation where he can be as productive as possible.)

The trade, at least to me, feels a little like the Zards are trading two all-stars (Wall & Beal) to accommodate one all-star (Simmons)...a player who requires that you build a particular type of team, one that takes into account his bad outside shooting.

I'm still solidly in the camp of those (55:30 in the podcast) who want to see how the Wall-Beal duo performs next season before seriously considering a Beal-Simmons trade.

[dorianwrite]

If we're actually doing a from-the-ground rebuild, not just a spit-and-polish rebuild-on-the-fly, the only players on the roster who shouldn't be up for trade discussion (minus a godfather offer) are Hachimura and Brown. Everyone else should be eligible for a picks-and-assets fire sale.

[payitforward]

A Beal for Simmons trade is just begging to happen.

We r in violent agreement about this!

[payitforward]

If we're actually doing a from-the-ground rebuild, not just a spit-and-polish rebuild-on-the-fly, the only players on the roster who shouldn't be up for trade discussion (minus a godfather offer) are Hachimura and Brown. Everyone else should be eligible for a picks-and-assets fire sale.

Love to hear your reasoning. I.e. why *not* those 2 guys in particular -- given that we have other young'uns?

[gambitx777]

IAM the only one here saying this but Beal for Simmons would be a grave mistake. Dude can't shoot and now he has mysterious back issues. ??? I'm not athletic specialist but I have back issues and those mother **** never go away. Dude still can't shoot. If his body starts breaking down with his style of play he's going to decline fast. I pass.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Ruzious]

IAM the only one here saying this but Beal for Simmons would be a grave mistake. Dude can't shoot and now he has mysterious back issues. ??? I'm not athletic specialist but I have back issues and those mother **** never go away. Dude still can't shoot. If his body starts breaking down with his style of play he's going to decline fast. I pass.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Giannis also "can't shoot" and is playing with a sore back. He's had on and off back flare ups for the last couple months. https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball/nba/player/29932/giannis-antetokounmpo He plays a more physical style than Simmons. Bucks should dump him.

[nate33]

IAM the only one here saying this but Beal for Simmons would be a grave mistake. Dude can't shoot and now he has mysterious back issues. ??? I'm not athletic specialist but I have back issues and those mother **** never go away. Dude still can't shoot. If his body starts breaking down with his style of play he's going to decline fast. I pass.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Giannis also "can't shoot" and is playing with a sore back. He's had on and off back flare ups for the last couple months. https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball/nba/player/29932/giannis-antetokounmpo He plays a more physical style than Simmons. Bucks should dump him.

Beal for Antetokounmpo?

[gambitx777]

I don't think the 76ers should trade him either.i would trade embid before Simmons. But I'm also not trading for a guy with back issues who can't shoot. The creek can also shoot much much better than Simmons.

IAM the only one here saying this but Beal for Simmons would be a grave mistake. Dude can't shoot and now he has mysterious back issues. ??? I'm not athletic specialist but I have back issues and those mother **** never go away. Dude still can't shoot. If his body starts breaking down with his style of play he's going to decline fast. I pass.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Giannis also "can't shoot" and is playing with a sore back. He's had on and off back flare ups for the last couple months. https://www.rotoworld.com/basketball/nba/player/29932/giannis-antetokounmpo He plays a more physical style than Simmons. Bucks should dump him.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[DCZards]

IAM the only one here saying this but Beal for Simmons would be a grave mistake. Dude can't shoot and now he has mysterious back issues. ??? I'm not athletic specialist but I have back issues and those mother **** never go away. Dude still can't shoot. If his body starts breaking down with his style of play he's going to decline fast. I pass.

Giannis also "can't shoot" and is playing with a sore back. He's had on and off back flare ups for the last couple months.

In his third season (2015-16), Giannis shot the ball 157 times from the 10-19 ft range and made them at around a 33% rate.

Last season, Ben's third season, he shot the ball 92 times from the 10-19 ft range and made them at around a 17% rate.

[Ruzious]

IAM the only one here saying this but Beal for Simmons would be a grave mistake. Dude can't shoot and now he has mysterious back issues. ??? I'm not athletic specialist but I have back issues and those mother **** never go away. Dude still can't shoot. If his body starts breaking down with his style of play he's going to decline fast. I pass.

Giannis also "can't shoot" and is playing with a sore back. He's had on and off back flare ups for the last couple months.

In his third season (2015-16), Giannis shot the ball 157 times from the 10-19 ft range at around a 33% rate.

Last season, Ben's third season, he shot the ball 92 times from the 10-19 ft range at around a 17% rate.

There you have it - Ben will probably not be as good as Giannis.

[DCZards]

Giannis also "can't shoot" and is playing with a sore back. He's had on and off back flare ups for the last couple months.

In his third season (2015-16), Giannis shot the ball 157 times from the 10-19 ft range at around a 33% rate.

Last season, Ben's third season, he shot the ball 92 times from the 10-19 ft range at around a 17% rate.

There you have it - Ben will probably not be as good as Giannis.

This season in 54 games Ben has made a grand total of 4 shots from 10-19 ft. He is 3 for 22 (13.6%) from 10-14 ft and 1 for 5 (20%) from 15-19 ft. He is 2 for 2 on 3pters though.

[payitforward]

Ben Simmons is posting a .608 TS% this year. I guess he must be making shots from somewhere, huh?

Still, it's obvious: there's only one way to tell how good a player is, & that is by looking at how many points he scores. Guys who score more points are better than guys who score fewer points. Nothing else matters -- it doesn't matter how many shots it takes to score their points, because more points is better than fewer points. As to the rest of what players do on the floor, come on? What does that matter?

(It is important, however, where they score their points from. For example, if I like a player, & some other player doesn't score as well from the spots where my guy scores well, why that means he's not as good as my guy.)

Let me illustrate. James Harden scores more points per 40 minutes than any other guard in the league. That means he is the best guard in the league. Luka Doncic scores the 2d most points per 40 minutes; that makes him the 2d best guard in the league. He's not as good as Harden -- obviously: he doesn't score as many points.

Third in points per 40 minutes is Trae Young -- that makes him the 3d best guard in the league. & right behind him is Brad Beal, who, obviously, is the 4th best guard in the NBA. How could he not be? He scores the 4th most points; he has to be 4th best.

That's right, isn't it?