MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #921 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 1:33 am

It amazes me how much everyone dismisses AD. The guy is a top ten player in the league and people say James has no help.

Homer38 · Post #922 » by **Homer38** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 1:36 am

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:It amazes me how much everyone dismisses AD. The guy is a top ten player in the league and people say James has no help.

You need to look at the roster to like 1 to 9,not just 1 to 2....

TD75 · Post #923 » by **TD75** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 2:10 am

Before the season started:

"The Bucks are worse than last year. They even lost Brogdon."
"The Bucks don't have a second superstar, contrary to the Lakers"

The Bucks are 1st in pace to 70 wins (better than last year).

When discussing the MVP

"Giannis has so much help. <Insert randon on/off numbers without context>"

When discussing the championship

"Here is why we don't trust in the Bucks to win a championship. <Insert silly arguments about playoffs performance as if it matters this year>".

The mental gymnastics some people perform in order to push their own preferred candidate for MVP are hilarious.

At least by the end of this year the voters for MVP will be split into those who watch basketball and those who think they watch WWE.

deneem4 · Post #924 » by **deneem4** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 2:10 am

Lebron has ad and Danny green
Giannas have Middleton and Bledsoe

To elaborate would the bucks trade Middleton Bledsoe and Lopez for ad???

Would the lakers trade ad for Middleton Lopez and Bledsoe??

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #925 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 2:29 am

Homer38 wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:It amazes me how much everyone dismisses AD. The guy is a top ten player in the league and people say James has no help.

You need to look at the roster to like 1 to 9,not just 1 to 2....

Half their team was off the scrap heap. Wes, party c, Robin, korver, Williams, are all on min contracts or close to it. Hill was salary cap filler last year. Hell Brook was so washed up he signed a $3m deal. Some of its coaching but a lot of it is Gianni's making them better.

It's basically Gianni's, Midds, Brook and Bledsoe as above average players. This isn't the Beatles or the KD warriors. I'm not saying LeBron has a better supporting cast but Davis is so much better than the second best player on the bucks that I think it's pretty close.

If anything, the difference between the squads is that bucks go after guys like Wes and Marvin Williams versus Lakers getting JR Smith and Waiters for James. I just don't think guys 5-9 make that much of a difference.

Homer38 · Post #926 » by **Homer38** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 2:38 am

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:It amazes me how much everyone dismisses AD. The guy is a top ten player in the league and people say James has no help.

You need to look at the roster to like 1 to 9,not just 1 to 2....

Half their team was off the scrap heap. Wes, party c, Robin, korver, Williams, are all on min contracts or close to it. Hill was salary cap filler last year. Hell Brook was so washed up he signed a $3m deal. Some of its coaching but a lot of it is Gianni's making them better.

It's basically Gianni's, Midds, Brook and Bledsoe as above average players. This isn't the Beatles or the KD warriors. I'm not saying LeBron has a better supporting cast but Davis is so much better than the second best player on the bucks that I think it's pretty close.

If anything, the difference between the squads is that bucks go after guys like Wes and Marvin Williams versus Lakers getting JR Smith and Waiters for James. I just don't think guys 5-9 make that much of a difference.

Giannis deserves the MVP and he will win, but my problem is that some judge a roster after only 2 players!

Colbinii · Post #927 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 4:47 am

TD75 wrote:Before the season started:

"The Bucks are worse than last year. They even lost Brogdon."
"The Bucks don't have a second superstar, contrary to the Lakers"

The Bucks are 1st in pace to 70 wins (better than last year).

When discussing the MVP

"Giannis has so much help. <Insert randon on/off numbers without context>"

When discussing the championship

"Here is why we don't trust in the Bucks to win a championship. <Insert silly arguments about playoffs performance as if it matters this year>".

The mental gymnastics some people perform in order to push their own preferred candidate for MVP are hilarious.

At least by the end of this year the voters for MVP will be split into those who watch basketball and those who think they watch WWE.

The issues with statements like this is they actually don't have any basis.

You say "People before the season say X, now people say the opposite of X" yet you don't have any proof that the people are the same. I could say one thing, you could say the opposite and someone else could come in here and say "Look at this forum, they say one thing one day and another on the next day".

Most people thought the Bucks would be a top 2 seed. Most people thought the Lakers would be seeded from 4-6. Those are simply facts you can go look at. LeBron is washed was a consistent thread on this board for a good 6-months.

And guess what? We can all be wrong and we all have the right to be wrong. People who were low on the Bucks and are now high on them have a seasons worth of evidence to back up their claims.

Look at this thread from July
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1873239

First few posts...
Lakers 7th
Lakers 7th
Lakers 8th
No way the Lakers get 7th or 8th [This guy got it right!]
Lakers 4th
Lakers 8th
Lakers MISSING THE PLAYOFFS

People were getting dumped on for having the Lakers in the top 4.

Jayt99 · Post #928 » by **Jayt99** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 5:22 am

SweetTouch wrote:This is Gia mvp to lose

King wants the finals mvp

Kawhi will get Finals MVP

ScotlandRed · Post #929 » by **ScotlandRed** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 6:48 am

Big LeBron fan, but it’s clearly Giannis. I think LeBron is a clear 2nd after Luka has cooled off a bit and missed some games with injuries. Harden was very off then has been on and off a bit recently. Lillard had one insane month and is now injured again and think the talk for him was crazy anyway. Davis is not good enough without Bron on the floor.

C0bR · Post #930 » by **C0bR** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 12:14 pm

Giannis' PER (I don't know why people keep talking about it since it's a terrible stat easily broken by jacking lots of shots in low minutes) down to 31.8... will probably end up at 31 at best considering the schedule. Really puts into perspective those record seasons by Wilt/MJ/Lebron who were playng far more minutes.

Lakers also now have a better adjusted record than the Bucks so if they win on Friday LeBron should pretty much cement this thing.

antonac · Post #931 » by **antonac** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 12:59 pm

It's still Giannis for me but this isn't sewn up yet.

Total homerism but given Doncic and Harden have being trending down the last month or 2 I'd say Jokic has gone clear 3rd. Nuggets are fully reliant on him and are sitting with a top 5 record in the league.

Sgt Major · Post #932 » by **Sgt Major** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 2:42 pm

23-_6-_23 · Post #933 » by **23-_6-_23** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 3:53 pm

If the Lakers creep up on the Bucks in the standings (only 4 games back in the loss column) and Lebron dominates this Friday night this thing will get interesting fast.

They also owe Lebron after that Derrick Rose debacle.

NirvanaFC · Post #934 » by **NirvanaFC** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 4:21 pm

C0bR wrote:Giannis' PER (I don't know why people keep talking about it since it's a terrible stat easily broken by jacking lots of shots in low minutes) down to 31.8... will probably end up at 31 at best considering the schedule. Really puts into perspective those record seasons by Wilt/MJ/Lebron who were playng far more minutes.

Lakers also now have a better adjusted record than the Bucks so if they win on Friday LeBron should pretty much cement this thing.

Huh, wtf is this adjusted record?

scrabbarista · Post #935 » by **scrabbarista** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 4:58 pm

Win Shares:
Harden 1st
James 7th

WS/48:
Harden 3rd
James 15th

VORP:
Harden 1st
James 4th

BPM:
Harden 2nd
James 7th

PER:
Harden 2nd
James 10th

PIPM:
Harden 2nd
James 3rd

PIPM WA:
Harden 2nd
James 3rd

RAPTOR:
Harden 1st
James 4th

RAPTOR WAR:
Harden 1st
James 3rd

RPM WINS:
Harden 1st
James 3rd

RPM:
Harden 3rd
James 2nd

PIE:
Harden 7th
James 3rd

On-Off:
Harden +8.5
James +10.9

I'm just going to leave this here. Enjoy the cognitive dissonance, everyone!

Homer38 · Post #936 » by **Homer38** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 5:00 pm

The Rockets have like 8 more loss that the Lakers…

SeniorWalker · Post #937 » by **SeniorWalker** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 5:24 pm

23-_6-_23 wrote:If the Lakers creep up on the Bucks in the standings (only 4 games back in the loss column) and Lebron dominates this Friday night this thing will get interesting fast.

They also owe Lebron after that Derrick Rose debacle.

This is a nauseating narrative.

Lebron is not owed anything, Derrick Rose won the MVP and it was a fair awarding. LeBron was the better player but his team had a lot more talent than the bulls and still underperformed in the regular season, while Rose carried an often injured team to a surprise #1 seed as the only star on his team. He earned it fair and square, there was no controversy whatsoever which is why he got so many votes.

LeBron has not been robbed of a single MVP in his career. Period. He deserved it the years he won but every other year someone else had a better case. In 2014 KD had a better case. 2015 and 2016 Curry had a better case. 2017 both Westbrook and Harden had better cases. In 2018 Harden again had a better case. 2019 and this year, Giannis has had a clearly better case. This is just a narrative propped up by many to make LeBron's career look better, when we really dont need to do that.

If LeBron wanted to win more MVPs in the past he could have done so but after Miami deliberately chose to start pacing himself more for the playoffs. Words out of his own mouth. He only has himself to blame if he wanted more accolades but I think he made the right choice in prioritizing contending for championships. Nobody cares about MVP if you're not also winning titles.

Also, thank you media for pretending this has been a close race. Giannis is slaughtering LeBron statistically on both ends of the floor, and his team has a better record, and he doesn't have an Anthony Davis caliber teammate who is actually outperforming him in many areas especially in scoring and defense....and yet you continually run stories perpetuating this narrative.

Benedict_Boozer · Post #938 » by **Benedict_Boozer** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 5:46 pm

23-_6-_23 wrote:If the Lakers creep up on the Bucks in the standings (only 4 games back in the loss column) and Lebron dominates this Friday night this thing will get interesting fast.

They also owe Lebron after that Derrick Rose debacle.

Yup - Giannis better win that head to head game or the tide will turn.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

23-_6-_23 · Post #939 » by **23-_6-_23** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 5:57 pm

SeniorWalker wrote:
23-_6-_23 wrote:If the Lakers creep up on the Bucks in the standings (only 4 games back in the loss column) and Lebron dominates this Friday night this thing will get interesting fast.

They also owe Lebron after that Derrick Rose debacle.

This is a nauseating narrative.

If you don't think Lebron was robbed of that MVP because the whole narrative of him leaving Cleveland to join Miami affected a lot of voters then I don't know what else to tell you.

NyKnicks1714 · Post #940 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Tue Mar 3, 2020 6:28 pm

For LeBron to win (I'm saying get the votes, not deserve to win) the Lakers need to win on Friday, he has to have a really impressive showing, and the Lakers would need to finish ahead of Milwaukee. It might take AD missing some games en route to all that happening as well.

Who is your pick for the 2019-20 MVP?