MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

[clyde21]

scrabb are u still trying to push Harden in this thread? he's not even the best player on his own team anymore

[clyde21]

Spoiler:

Win Shares:
Harden 1st
James 7th

WS/48:
Harden 3rd
James 15th

VORP:
Harden 1st
James 4th

BPM:
Harden 2nd
James 7th

PER:
Harden 2nd
James 10th

PIPM:
Harden 2nd
James 3rd

PIPM WA:
Harden 2nd
James 3rd

RAPTOR:
Harden 1st
James 4th

RAPTOR WAR:
Harden 1st
James 3rd

RPM WINS:
Harden 1st
James 3rd

RPM:
Harden 3rd
James 2nd

PIE:
Harden 7th
James 3rd

On-Off:
Harden +8.5
James +10.9

I'm just going to leave this here. Enjoy the cognitive dissonance, everyone!

yes, neither LeBron or Harden should be in this conversation either.

[SeniorWalker]

If the Lakers creep up on the Bucks in the standings (only 4 games back in the loss column) and Lebron dominates this Friday night this thing will get interesting fast.

They also owe Lebron after that Derrick Rose debacle.

This is a nauseating narrative.

If you don't think Lebron was robbed of that MVP because the whole narrative of him leaving Cleveland to join Miami affected a lot of voters then I don't know what else to tell you.

Here we go again. LeBron's heat "superteam" disappointed everyone in the regular season despite having 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA in their prime. Rose on the other hand carried his oft injured team to the leagues best record, surprising everyone. No one thought he was a better player than LeBron, however he carried his team more than LeBron did, while leading them to more success. That is why he won. There is nothing else even to talk about. LeBron did not deserve it. If you still cant see it, no one can help you. The MVP is not best player in the league award and never has been

[The_Hater]

scrabb are u still trying to push Harden in this thread? he's not even the best player on his own team anymore

Harden is not the MVP and Russ is playing well of late but let’s not get carried away here.

[SeniorWalker]

For LeBron to win (I'm saying get the votes, not deserve to win) the Lakers need to win on Friday, he has to have a really impressive showing, and the Lakers would need to finish ahead of Milwaukee. It might take AD missing some games en route to all that happening as well.

I agree. Milwaukee needs to slip, Lakers need to mostly win out the rest of their games and LeBron needs to have some classic performances. Then it would become close. (In the eyes of the media. IMO AD is being downplayed way too much and it's still not close. The guy is doing what he always has, LeBron didn't make him better....but people seem to be ignoring that he is a big part of why LeBron's assists totals have been increasing).

That would be an epic collapse by Milwaukee though, theyd have to start losing a lot. You never know....but unless that scenario happens, it's over.

[clyde21]

everyone in the media now trying hard to push LeBron for MVP.

they are for sure gonna deny Giannis his rightful unanimous MVP, and the for sure as hell gonna try to pry it away from him.

shameful.

[Homer38]

For LeBron to win (I'm saying get the votes, not deserve to win) the Lakers need to win on Friday, he has to have a really impressive showing, and the Lakers would need to finish ahead of Milwaukee. It might take AD missing some games en route to all that happening as well.

I agree. Milwaukee needs to slip, Lakers need to mostly win out the rest of their games and LeBron needs to have some classic performances. Then it would become close. (In the eyes of the media. IMO AD is being downplayed way too much and it's still not close. The guy is doing what he always has, LeBron didn't make him better....but people seem to be ignoring that he is a big part of why LeBron's assists totals have been increasing).

That would be an epic collapse by Milwaukee though, theyd have to start losing a lot. You never know....but unless that scenario happens, it's over.

A roster does not stop at 2 players....

Giannis is the MVP, but a roster has more than 2 players.The Lakers are not in the same situation as the Warriors were in 2017.

[Homer38]

everyone in the media now trying hard to push LeBron for MVP.

they are for sure gonna deny Giannis his rightful unanimous MVP, and the for sure as hell gonna try to pry it away from him.

shameful.

Cry me a river

LeBron deserved to be a unanimous MVP in 2013 or even in 2009 (I admit that Wade and Kobe deserved some first place vote), so it wouldn't be the first time ... Shaq in 2000, same thing.

[clyde21]

everyone in the media now trying hard to push LeBron for MVP.

they are for sure gonna deny Giannis his rightful unanimous MVP, and the for sure as hell gonna try to pry it away from him.

shameful.

Cry me a river

LeBron deserved to be a unanimous MVP in 2013 or even in 2009 (I admit that Wade and Kobe deserved some first place vote), so it wouldn't be the first time ... Shaq in 2000, same thing.

completely irrelevant, LeBron deserved it in 2013 so we should deny it to Giannis in 2020?

LeBron stans are super nauseating, kick rocks.

[Homer38]

everyone in the media now trying hard to push LeBron for MVP.

they are for sure gonna deny Giannis his rightful unanimous MVP, and the for sure as hell gonna try to pry it away from him.

shameful.

Cry me a river

LeBron deserved to be a unanimous MVP in 2013 or even in 2009 (I admit that Wade and Kobe deserved some first place vote), so it wouldn't be the first time ... Shaq in 2000, same thing.

completely irrelevant, LeBron deserved it in 2013 so we should deny it to Giannis in 2020?

LeBron stans are super nauseating, kick rocks.

My point is that it would not be the first time a player deserved to be unanimous MVP but he is not.... Forget about LBJ for a moment, the fact that Shaq was not a unanimous MVP was ridiculous but yeah Giannis has a unanimous MVP caliber season so far, but LBJ still deserves to be considered even if we know he won't win it.

[clyde21]

Cry me a river

LeBron deserved to be a unanimous MVP in 2013 or even in 2009 (I admit that Wade and Kobe deserved some first place vote), so it wouldn't be the first time ... Shaq in 2000, same thing.

completely irrelevant, LeBron deserved it in 2013 so we should deny it to Giannis in 2020?

LeBron stans are super nauseating, kick rocks.

My point is that it would not be the first time a player deserved to be unanimous MVP but he is not.... Forget about LBJ for a moment, the fact that Shaq was not a unanimous MVP was ridiculous but yeah Giannis has a unanimous MVP caliber season so far, but LBJ still deserves to be considered even if we know he won't win it.

no, he doesn't. this should be a unanimous vote for Giannis. there isn't a single legitimate argument why anyone should vote for LeBron ahead of Giannis other than LeBrOn JaMeS

[Homer38]

completely irrelevant, LeBron deserved it in 2013 so we should deny it to Giannis in 2020?

LeBron stans are super nauseating, kick rocks.

My point is that it would not be the first time a player deserved to be unanimous MVP but he is not.... Forget about LBJ for a moment, the fact that Shaq was not a unanimous MVP was ridiculous but yeah Giannis has a unanimous MVP caliber season so far, but LBJ still deserves to be considered even if we know he won't win it.

no, he doesn't. this should be a unanimous vote for Giannis. there isn't a single legitimate argument why anyone should vote for LeBron ahead of Giannis other than LeBrOn JaMeS

I don't said that LBJ deserve to be ahead of Giannis…But he is clear cut second and this is not because his name is LeBron...

[clyde21]

My point is that it would not be the first time a player deserved to be unanimous MVP but he is not.... Forget about LBJ for a moment, the fact that Shaq was not a unanimous MVP was ridiculous but yeah Giannis has a unanimous MVP caliber season so far, but LBJ still deserves to be considered even if we know he won't win it.

no, he doesn't. this should be a unanimous vote for Giannis. there isn't a single legitimate argument why anyone should vote for LeBron ahead of Giannis other than LeBrOn JaMeS

I don't said that LBJ deserve to be ahead of Giannis…But he is clear cut second and this is not because his name is LeBron...

if you want to give him all the 2nd place votes be guest if that makes u feel better, but Giannis should be unanimous #1.

[scrabbarista]

Khris Middleton's last 19 games before last night:

25/7/5 on 56/52/91 (.702 TS%) with 2 TO's in 32 mins per game, 17-2 team record.

Over that same stretch, Russell Westbrook:

33/8/8 on 53/31/79 (.581 TS%) with 4 TO's in 38 mins per game, 9-6 team record.

Any reasonable person could prefer either of those lines.

The real point, though, is that the MVP is, supposedly, an 82-game award. Only when it comes to James Harden do people seem to just pick whatever his weakest stretch is - or his teammate's best stretch - to make their dubious points. Last season, it was the first 25 games (when he actually played great but got zero help), and this season it's mostly just a 9-game stretch in January that's "dragging him down." I get that consistency is important, but being good is a hundred times more important than being consistent.

To be clear (since one or two people tried to put words in my mouth), I still have Antetokounmpo as the MVP. I just think LeBron James over James Harden is silly. So do 90% of the numbers.

[Homer38]

Khris Middleton's last 19 games before last night:

25/7/5 on 56/52/91 (.702 TS%) with 2 TO's in 32 mins per game, 17-2 team record.

Over that same stretch, Russell Westbrook:

33/8/8 on 53/31/79 (.581 TS%) with 4 TO's in 38 mins per game, 9-6 team record.

Any reasonable person could prefer either of those lines.

The real point, though, is that the MVP is, supposedly, an 82-game award. Only when it comes to James Harden do people seem to just pick whatever his weakest stretch is (or his teammate's best stretch) to make their dubious points. Last season it was the first third of the season, this season it's mostly just a 9-game stretch in January that's dragged him down. I get that consistency is important, but being good is a hundred times more important than being consistent.

To be clear (since one or two people tried to put words in my mouth), I still have Antetokounmpo as the MVP. I just think LeBron James over James Harden is silly. So do 90% of the numbers.

TS% is not always the best stats…I mean Curry had a better TS% that Kyrie and LeBron in the 2016 Finals...Outside of the TS%,Westbrook has been much better in the last couple week that Middleton.

[scrabbarista]

Khris Middleton's last 19 games before last night:

25/7/5 on 56/52/91 (.702 TS%) with 2 TO's in 32 mins per game, 17-2 team record.

Over that same stretch, Russell Westbrook:

33/8/8 on 53/31/79 (.581 TS%) with 4 TO's in 38 mins per game, 9-6 team record.

Any reasonable person could prefer either of those lines.

The real point, though, is that the MVP is, supposedly, an 82-game award. Only when it comes to James Harden do people seem to just pick whatever his weakest stretch is (or his teammate's best stretch) to make their dubious points. Last season it was the first third of the season, this season it's mostly just a 9-game stretch in January that's dragged him down. I get that consistency is important, but being good is a hundred times more important than being consistent.

To be clear (since one or two people tried to put words in my mouth), I still have Antetokounmpo as the MVP. I just think LeBron James over James Harden is silly. So do 90% of the numbers.

TS% is not always the best stats…I mean Curry had a better TS% that Kyrie and LeBron in the 2016 Finals...Outside of the TS%,Westbrook has been much better in the last couple week that Middleton.

Outside of the TS%, RPG, FG%, 3P%, FT%, TO's, and team record, you mean. Even the assists are debatably "much" better, especially in light of the minutes played. My point (as I stated) was that arbitrary stretches of the season shouldn't be a part of the MVP conversation. What should matter is the season as a whole.

[Homer38]

Khris Middleton's last 19 games before last night:

25/7/5 on 56/52/91 (.702 TS%) with 2 TO's in 32 mins per game, 17-2 team record.

Over that same stretch, Russell Westbrook:

33/8/8 on 53/31/79 (.581 TS%) with 4 TO's in 38 mins per game, 9-6 team record.

Any reasonable person could prefer either of those lines.

The real point, though, is that the MVP is, supposedly, an 82-game award. Only when it comes to James Harden do people seem to just pick whatever his weakest stretch is (or his teammate's best stretch) to make their dubious points. Last season it was the first third of the season, this season it's mostly just a 9-game stretch in January that's dragged him down. I get that consistency is important, but being good is a hundred times more important than being consistent.

To be clear (since one or two people tried to put words in my mouth), I still have Antetokounmpo as the MVP. I just think LeBron James over James Harden is silly. So do 90% of the numbers.

TS% is not always the best stats…I mean Curry had a better TS% that Kyrie and LeBron in the 2016 Finals...Outside of the TS%,Westbrook has been much better in the last couple week that Middleton.

Outside of the TS%, RPG, FG%, 3P%, FT%, TO's, and team record, you mean. Even the assists are debatably "much" better. Also, my point (as I stated) was that arbitrary stretches of the season shouldn't be a part of the MVP conversation. What should matter is the season as a whole.

TS% and the FG%,3P% and FT% are the same…And Westbrook has way more PPG and assist per game...He has also more RPG.

[Ron Swanson]

Yes, there should have been plenty of unanimous MVP's in the past (Wilt, Jordan in '91, '92 and '96, Lebron in '09 and '13, Kareem in '71), so I'm glad the voters stopped being contrarians and gave it to Steph in 2016. Lebron has as much of a case for MVP this year as he did vs. Steph in 2016, which is, none. Zero.

[scrabbarista]

Yes, there should have been plenty of unanimous MVP's in the past (Wilt, Jordan in '91, '92 and '96, Lebron in '09 and '13, Kareem in '71), so I'm glad the voters stopped being contrarians and gave it to Steph in 2016. Lebron has as much of a case for MVP this year as he did vs. Steph in 2016, which is, none. Zero.

Yeah, the unanimous thing is kind of overblown. I mean, in a sense, every year should be unanimous. Like, everyone should just unanimously choose whoever deserved it.

[RB34]

So Giannis doesn’t deserve it because of 2009/2013? Get the **** out of here. LeBron stans are ridiculous.

Let’s not forget Giannis is a DPOY candidate too