Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I]

[KungFuJoe]

Zion is out of shape. Pretty badly. Against the Lakers, when he gave McGee his jersey, you could see a pretty decent spare tire around his midsection.

On the bad side, it's disappointing to see that he wasn't on top of his nutrition and fitness during his time off.

On the positive side, he IS just a 19 year old kid. And the fact that his high weight is a decent amount of fat and not just pure muscle means he can (and should) trim 10-20 lbs once he starts working on his diet and conditioning.

[Buzzard]

last year's rookie class was pretty much Trae and Doncic, this year's has been more exciting even tho Ja and Zion are above everyone else as well.

Ja is the biggest story despite what ESPN wants us to believe.

This just isn't true. No matter who wins ROY, Zion is BAY FAR the biggest story for rookies. Thats why not just the media, the fans talk about Zion 10 times more than Ja

Zion's injury and missing so many games was a big story; but its not as big as Ja coming from a small school and blowing the so called Great West up. You are entitled to your opinion and I also hate it when any player gets injured. But basketball players who were/are playing games is what intrigues me the most.

I will pay more attention to Zion once he can play a full season. That may sound callous but that is the truth.

[Buzzard]

The slight difference in 1 PPG is mitigated by Trae being bar none the worst defender in the league compared to Ja actually being a positive on that side.

That gap is actually huge and then add in that Ja is a lot more efficient than Trae was, leading a team expected to be last in the conference and potentially last in the league to playoff contention makes it a non contest.

Trae had a good offensive year for a rookie but he was pretty much bulk volume, very poor efficiency and absolutely no defense whilst leading his team to just 29 wins.

You could argue they had similar rookie years but I don’t think you’d get far trying to argue that Trae had a better one.

Trae: 19/4/8/1 with 4 turnovers on 42/32/83
PER: 17
WS/48: .062
BPM: -0.6
VORP: 0.9


Ja: 18/3/7/1 with 3 turnovers on 49/35/78
PER: 18.1
WS/48: .089
BPM: 0.2
VORP: 0.9

We can all cherry pick what ever fits our argument. Like all the 30 and 10 games Trae had as a rookie. More than any rookie in the history of the league except the Big O. Last year was exciting due to Trae struggling so much in October and November.

Then he started shutting people up and the only ammo the haters had left by the end of the season was his first two months of play.

That's fair enough.. but to say Trae's rookie season was better than Ja's is just flat out wrong..

It appears that you are ignoring advanced stats, win contributions, performance relative to expectations, efficiency and defense and are purely relying on an extra point and assist per game...which is just strange.

Trae is a jet but to think he had a better rookie season than Ja is flat out wrong and objectively nearly everything points against your argument.

Trae blew up so many records last season for 20 and 10, 30 and 10, 40 and 10 games I don't think you have a leg to stand on; but you are welcome to your advanced stats.

I disagree, so that makes you wrong. So we can both be wrong from our own small world perspective.

[clyde21]

Coby: 26/1/6

Naz: 16/11/3/2

RJ: 14/4/5/2

Ja: 15/7/5/1

[clyde21]

filthy

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[Colbinii]

filthy

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I like the Minnesota announcers take on it better. Gave him one heck of a compliment, though that is expected as they are the best commentary duo in the land.

Naz with 16/11/3 with 5 Offensive Boards and 2 Blocks and just 2 fouls. Manhandled Carter Jr for most of the night.

[CBS7]

Coby White averaging 28/4/4/1 on .508/.491/.950 shooting in the past 6 games

[Colbinii]

Coby White averaging 28/4/4/1 on .508/.491/.950 shooting in the past 6 games

Now all he needs to do is grow 2 inches and add 20 pounds of muscle

[CBS7]

We can all cherry pick what ever fits our argument. Like all the 30 and 10 games Trae had as a rookie. More than any rookie in the history of the league except the Big O. Last year was exciting due to Trae struggling so much in October and November.

Then he started shutting people up and the only ammo the haters had left by the end of the season was his first two months of play.

That's fair enough.. but to say Trae's rookie season was better than Ja's is just flat out wrong..

It appears that you are ignoring advanced stats, win contributions, performance relative to expectations, efficiency and defense and are purely relying on an extra point and assist per game...which is just strange.

Trae is a jet but to think he had a better rookie season than Ja is flat out wrong and objectively nearly everything points against your argument.

Trae blew up so many records last season for 20 and 10, 30 and 10, 40 and 10 games I don't think you have a leg to stand on; but you are welcome to your advanced stats.

I disagree, so that makes you wrong. So we can both be wrong from our own small world perspective.

Trae had some offensive explosions but all in all I think Ja is definitely having a better rookie season.
More consistent, similar (but clearly a little worse) raw numbers, better advanced stats, better defense, and his team is destroying expectations and has them in the playoff hunt.

[Duke4life831]

Looks like a mix between rookie wall, loss of confidence and not being able to fit with Zion has pretty much put an end to Jaxson Hayes rookie year. Last 18 games (return of Zion): 3 DNPs and just 9 minutes a game. In that time span he has a +/- of -59. He seems to have lost all of his confidence, he looks completely lost when he's out there right now whenever he gets in the game.

[clyde21]

^ that's only because Gentry is an absolute moron

[Marcus]

Looks like a mix between rookie wall, loss of confidence and not being able to fit with Zion has pretty much put an end to Jaxson Hayes rookie year. Last 18 games (return of Zion): 3 DNPs and just 9 minutes a game. In that time span he has a +/- of -59. He seems to have lost all of his confidence, he looks completely lost when he's out there right now whenever he gets in the game.

felt like going forward they should be seeing if they can groom that trio of Zion/Zo/Jax into a modday lob city. Maybe that video put him back further than it should?

[Duke4life831]

^ that's only because Gentry is an absolute moron

No arguments from me on that part. I think Hayes has been really raw all season long and many times watching games it was obvious he would get lost. I also get not getting big minutes with Zion because the short time they spent together on the court was a mess, Hayes didnt know where to be and Zion had nothing to work with in the paint (Im sure they see this as well in practice).

But you'd think Gentry would still find some minutes for Hayes in the 20 or so minutes that Zion doesn't play. By completely just cutting him out of the rotation, you could tell he also just completely took away all confidence he had as well.

[Young gun 6]

Looks like a mix between rookie wall, loss of confidence and not being able to fit with Zion has pretty much put an end to Jaxson Hayes rookie year. Last 18 games (return of Zion): 3 DNPs and just 9 minutes a game. In that time span he has a +/- of -59. He seems to have lost all of his confidence, he looks completely lost when he's out there right now whenever he gets in the game.

Seems to correlated a bit with that stupid video he put out before the ASB.

[Duke4life831]

Looks like a mix between rookie wall, loss of confidence and not being able to fit with Zion has pretty much put an end to Jaxson Hayes rookie year. Last 18 games (return of Zion): 3 DNPs and just 9 minutes a game. In that time span he has a +/- of -59. He seems to have lost all of his confidence, he looks completely lost when he's out there right now whenever he gets in the game.

felt like going forward they should be seeing if they can groom that trio of Zion/Zo/Jax into a modday lob city. Maybe that video put him back further than it should?

Seems to correlated a bit with that stupid video he put out before the ASB.

I think it has a lot more to do with Zion returning than that video. Zion and Hayes have played only 10 minutes together and they were a -37 per 100 together. I get its very small sample size, but Zion just had 0 room to work offensively and ya legit rim protection is great to pair with Zion, a smart defender is far more important at the moment in my opinion and that is not Hayes at the moment. So I wouldnt be shocked if that pairing is also pretty ugly in practice as well.

So Im not really up in arms about Hayes not getting minutes with Zion, I personally still have major questions about their fit going forward. I would much rather have a legit stretch big to pair with Zion that a rim protecting lob threat with very minimal offensive skills.

But with that said, I am kind of shocked that Hayes was cut from the rotation basically completely though. There is still close to 20 minutes a game that Zion isn't playing that I thought Hayes could have a chance to get minutes.

[IzzyT]

When you have Favors and Melli playing the way he is, does Jaxson really deserve minutes?

[clyde21]

When you have Favors and Melli playing the way he is, does Jaxson really deserve minutes?

he probably got phased out as they're not fighting for a PO spot, but yea, he deserves minutes. he was playing really well earlier in the year, you gotta let young guys play thru the struggles.

[IzzyT]

When you have Favors and Melli playing the way he is, does Jaxson really deserve minutes?

he probably got phased out as they're not fighting for a PO spot, but yea, he deserves minutes. he was playing really well earlier in the year, you gotta let young guys play thru the struggles.

I’m not a fan of gifting minutes to youngins when you’re in the hunt for a playoff seed. His skill set is a bit redundant and they’ve been bad when he plays next to Zion. On paper, it’s an even worse fit next to Favors.

Dunno, I think he should earn it. Then again, the memory of Marquese Chriss and Josh Jackson looms pretty large for me as a Suns fan.

[NO-KG-AI]

I like Melli, and think he's going to settle into being an excellent role player for the next few years, but he's not that good of a shooter right now, and there are definitely times where Hayes would be hte better option.

[MemphisX]

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