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Political Roundtable Part XXVII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1961 » by TGW » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:18 pm

dobrojim wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:This is easy to do for any and every candidate.


No it's not. Bernie is running as the anti-establishment candidate who opposes billionaires and fights for the working class. Hillary and Biden are many orders of magnitude easier to smear. The key thing is tricking people who read the NYT and Wapo - not Trump's base. Every other NYT article in 2016 was about Hillary's emails because people earnestly treated it like a scandal at the time.


Yeah right. No Republicans could ever possibly think of negative ads to run against Bernie.
They will completely ignore the fact that he is a self described (democratic) Socialist
and a non-practicing jew who wants everything to be free (not saying I agree with
this description or care about his religious background. Just saying the negative ads don't even
need to be fictional, they will practically write themselves).


Every democrat is a socialist, according to Republicans. We already know this.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1962 » by gtn130 » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:19 pm

dobrojim wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:This is easy to do for any and every candidate.


No it's not. Bernie is running as the anti-establishment candidate who opposes billionaires and fights for the working class. Hillary and Biden are many orders of magnitude easier to smear. The key thing is tricking people who read the NYT and Wapo - not Trump's base. Every other NYT article in 2016 was about Hillary's emails because people earnestly treated it like a scandal at the time.


Yeah right. No Republicans could ever possibly think of negative ads to run against Bernie.
They will completely ignore the fact that he is a self described (democratic) Socialist
and a non-practicing jew who wants everything to be free (not saying I agree with
this description or care about his religious background. Just saying the negative ads don't even
need to be fictional, they will practically write themselves).


Cool. Thing is, Bernie polls +7 vs Trump despite the fact that he welcomes people calling him a Socialist. Making attack ads on Socialism isn't really going to move the needle much since we all know this already and Bernie doesn't shy away from it. There's no scandal here.

The DOJ announcing they're arresting Hunter Biden on Nov 1st and the NYT uncritically writing about it will absolutely impact Biden, though. Again, we've already seen this play out in 2016, and Trump is 100% going to run the exact same playbook again, but this time it will be with the DOJ on his side adding credibility to everything he's doing.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1963 » by Doug_Blew » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:21 pm

gtn130 wrote:Never Trump Republicans, the most reliable voting bloc for Democrats!


Aren't never Trump Republicans more conservative and more likely to vote for Biden over Bernie?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1964 » by gtn130 » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:25 pm

Doug_Blew wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Never Trump Republicans, the most reliable voting bloc for Democrats!


Aren't never Trump Republicans more conservative and more likely to vote for Biden over Bernie?


They're more likely to vote for Trump. The number of Never Trump Republicans who will actually vote for a Democrat on election day amount to like 10k people in the entire country, max.

People seem to forget that Trump won in 2016 and is the President of the United States.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1965 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:28 pm

gtn130 wrote:Never Trump Republicans, the most reliable voting bloc for Democrats!


It’s actually not just never Trump Republicans. There are 4 voting blocks that the Democrats need to capture in addition to their base to beat Trump and you just don’t want to beat Trump you need to crush him.

Romney-Clinton voters
Obama-Trump voters
Obama voters that stayed home 2016
And new voters

You can argue and there’s data to back it up that Biden’s nomination opens up a path to capture at least the first 3 groups while Bernie’s nomination definitely opens up a path for the last one and possible getting those who say out 2016 to come out in 2020. Remember you’re only talking about 90000 votes across 3 states but there are states like Arizona and Florida that are definitely in play but Bernie at the top of the ticket makes those states and some others harder. Regardless of who’s at the top of the ticket the Democratic vote is locked in and solid but Democrats can’t win without convincing some Republicans, right leaning Independents and Obama Trump voters to vote for them.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1966 » by I_Like_Dirt » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:33 pm

gtn130 wrote:No it's not. Bernie is running as the anti-establishment candidate who opposes billionaires and fights for the working class. Hillary and Biden are many orders of magnitude easier to smear. The key thing is tricking people who read the NYT and Wapo - not Trump's base. Every other NYT article in 2016 was about Hillary's emails because people earnestly treated it like a scandal at the time.


Keep on keeping on. We're going to have to agree to disagree here. We are currently in a world where Trump (and Russia) have effectively been actively supporting Bernie thus far. Once those tables turn, suddenly things will look oddly different and nobody will be able to quite figure out why.

Here's the thing, the obvious reason that Russia is supporting Bernie isn't because they do or don't want him to win. Their goal is to create division and that's what Bernie does. That whole anti-establishment thing? That's exactly what the hope is to divide. When push comes to shove, when there are fault lines at play, the Democratic party has waaaaay more fault lines than the Republican one and it's suddenly advantage Trump.

You're looking at this through the wrong lens. It's not actually about smearing. It's about creating fear and confusion. And make no mistake, it would be rather easy to do that with Bernie. Trump can rile up his base with racism. Bernie doesn't have nearly that same kind of calling card. But if you're talking about tricking, Bernie has rather significant trust problems with women's issues, trust amongst African Americans, etc. Those are extremely easy to turn. Just have Trump start agreeing with Bernie on a few issues. He's already been doing it. Suddenly Trump gets his name attached to it a bit which stops any potential bleed he might see of his supporters to Bernie and there is a lot less enthusiasm for turnout from minorities against all the Republican state enacted voter suppression tactics.

Really, I think all this electability talk is completely missing the point and should have been dropped from the beginning. Anyone is electable so long as people are willing to show up and vote. So far, the only person that seems to have suggested they won't show up are Bernie supporters and then they turn around and wonder why nobody trusts them.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1967 » by Kanyewest » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:42 pm

Doug_Blew wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Never Trump Republicans, the most reliable voting bloc for Democrats!


Aren't never Trump Republicans more conservative and more likely to vote for Biden over Bernie?


Among my republicans friends that are supporting Democrats, they are supporting Bernie- granted they are in the 35 year old range.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1968 » by gtn130 » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:43 pm

Pointgod wrote:Regardless of who’s at the top of the ticket the Democratic vote is locked in and solid but Democrats can’t win without convincing some Republicans, right leaning Independents and Obama Trump voters to vote for them.


But this is like the whole ball game, right? My point here is these groups are more likely to vote for Trump at the end of the day. They'll hem and haw about MUH NORMS and TONE but then they'll think about the economy, abortion, judges and their tax bill. This is time-tested behavior.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1969 » by gtn130 » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:53 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
gtn130 wrote:No it's not. Bernie is running as the anti-establishment candidate who opposes billionaires and fights for the working class. Hillary and Biden are many orders of magnitude easier to smear. The key thing is tricking people who read the NYT and Wapo - not Trump's base. Every other NYT article in 2016 was about Hillary's emails because people earnestly treated it like a scandal at the time.


Keep on keeping on. We're going to have to agree to disagree here. We are currently in a world where Trump (and Russia) have effectively been actively supporting Bernie thus far. Once those tables turn, suddenly things will look oddly different and nobody will be able to quite figure out why.

Here's the thing, the obvious reason that Russia is supporting Bernie isn't because they do or don't want him to win. Their goal is to create division and that's what Bernie does. That whole anti-establishment thing? That's exactly what the hope is to divide. When push comes to shove, when there are fault lines at play, the Democratic party has waaaaay more fault lines than the Republican one and it's suddenly advantage Trump.

You're looking at this through the wrong lens. It's not actually about smearing. It's about creating fear and confusion. And make no mistake, it would be rather easy to do that with Bernie. Trump can rile up his base with racism. Bernie doesn't have nearly that same kind of calling card. But if you're talking about tricking, Bernie has rather significant trust problems with women's issues, trust amongst African Americans, etc. Those are extremely easy to turn. Just have Trump start agreeing with Bernie on a few issues. He's already been doing it. Suddenly Trump gets his name attached to it a bit which stops any potential bleed he might see of his supporters to Bernie and there is a lot less enthusiasm for turnout from minorities against all the Republican state enacted voter suppression tactics.

Really, I think all this electability talk is completely missing the point and should have been dropped from the beginning. Anyone is electable so long as people are willing to show up and vote. So far, the only person that seems to have suggested they won't show up are Bernie supporters and then they turn around and wonder why nobody trusts them.


The anti-establishment message is incredibly popular. It sows chaos inside the Democratic party. It's a popular message in a general election, and Obama hit on those same notes in 2008. Invoking Russia in all this is really bizarre.

The point I'm making about Biden, though, is that he doesn't generate any enthusiasm, and he has vulnerabilities that are almost perfectly analogous to Hillary Clinton. It is irrefutable that Trump is running the same playbook on Biden that he did on Clinton. Folks ITT seem to think Trump's unpopularity will drive turnout for Biden. Everyone thought that in 2016 too.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1970 » by Ruzious » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:57 pm

TGW wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
TGW wrote:Biden would get destroyed by Trump. Biden can barely form a coherent thought. The Republiican controlled media is already pushing videos of Biden gaffing, forgetting his words, and mushmouthing through speeches. His team hid him from the cameras for months...the same strategy they used with Hillary. It doesn't work.

Biden is an older, goofier version of Hillary with the same baggage. It's sad that the establishment dems are coalescing around this mush for brain dufus. Oh, and people are going to stay home in the GE, just like they did for Hillary.

You boomers refuse to learn any lessons from 2016. Sad.

In 2016, we learned that Sanders couldn't even come close to beating Clinton. Sanders supporters better get on board and show up and support Biden after Sanders loses to him. Otherwise, they might as well admit they've been Trump supporters all along.


Ok boomer. :lol:

Biden needs to EARN support if he's the nominee. Him screaming "get off my lawn" and "millenials complain too much" isn't going cut it. Sanders supporters got duped into voting for Hillary (more than Hillary supporters voted for Obama)...not this time. Progressives need something out of it if you expect us to vote for an unhinged, racist/sexist, mush-brained Biden.

Biden's a racist? Wtf. Sorry mods - there's no good way to respond to garbage like that. My opinion of Sanders followers is going down by the minute. All you should need is no Trump. Period. If that's not enough, find another party. Republicans and Russians seem to like Sanders - maybe start there. Btw, I have no idea who boomer is and don't care.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1971 » by daSwami » Thu Mar 5, 2020 7:06 pm

Warren is completely qualified, smart, and capable, but I'm glad she stepped aside. Despite CNN's pro-establishment (read: pro-Biden) bias, it will make the next debate (March 15) infinitely more watchable, with just 2 participants. Bernie should eviscerate Biden on policy, but CNN will do whatever it takes to elevate Biden.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1972 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 5, 2020 7:08 pm

gtn130 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
No it's not. Bernie is running as the anti-establishment candidate who opposes billionaires and fights for the working class. Hillary and Biden are many orders of magnitude easier to smear. The key thing is tricking people who read the NYT and Wapo - not Trump's base. Every other NYT article in 2016 was about Hillary's emails because people earnestly treated it like a scandal at the time.


Yeah right. No Republicans could ever possibly think of negative ads to run against Bernie.
They will completely ignore the fact that he is a self described (democratic) Socialist
and a non-practicing jew who wants everything to be free (not saying I agree with
this description or care about his religious background. Just saying the negative ads don't even
need to be fictional, they will practically write themselves).


Cool. Thing is, Bernie polls +7 vs Trump despite the fact that he welcomes people calling him a Socialist. Making attack ads on Socialism isn't really going to move the needle much since we all know this already and Bernie doesn't shy away from it. There's no scandal here.

The DOJ announcing they're arresting Hunter Biden on Nov 1st and the NYT uncritically writing about it will absolutely impact Biden, though. Again, we've already seen this play out in 2016, and Trump is 100% going to run the exact same playbook again, but this time it will be with the DOJ on his side adding credibility to everything he's doing.


I think you’re over estimating the value of the Hunter Biden angle. On one hand you can’t say that impeachment was good for Trump, then completely give relevance to the issue why he was impeached. Republicans could have called Hunter Biden to be a witness during the impeachment trial but didn’t. What Biden needs to do is keep hammering home that fact plainly state the only reason they’re doing this is to distract from Trump’s own criminality and failure and point to one of the 1000s of legitimate examples.

I know Trump’s brain dead base will eat it up but it only worked for Hillary because the media gave undo attention to her emails and Comey decided to announce an investigation weeks before the election but you can’t say it was partisan because he was part of Obama’s DOJ. Biden and his surrogates have to call it out for what it is.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1973 » by Kanyewest » Thu Mar 5, 2020 7:11 pm

Ruzious wrote:
TGW wrote:
Ruzious wrote:In 2016, we learned that Sanders couldn't even come close to beating Clinton. Sanders supporters better get on board and show up and support Biden after Sanders loses to him. Otherwise, they might as well admit they've been Trump supporters all along.


Ok boomer. :lol:

Biden needs to EARN support if he's the nominee. Him screaming "get off my lawn" and "millenials complain too much" isn't going cut it. Sanders supporters got duped into voting for Hillary (more than Hillary supporters voted for Obama)...not this time. Progressives need something out of it if you expect us to vote for an unhinged, racist/sexist, mush-brained Biden.

Biden's a racist? Wtf. Sorry mods - there's no good way to respond to garbage like that. My opinion of Sanders followers is going down by the minute. All you should need is no Trump. Period. If that's not enough, find another party. Republicans and Russians seem to like Sanders - maybe start there. Btw, I have no idea who boomer is and don't care.


Kamala Harris got the ball rolling on Biden being racist in the debates. :D

Then again, she didn't call Biden racist either.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1974 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 5, 2020 7:23 pm

daSwami wrote:Warren is completely qualified, smart, and capable, but I'm glad she stepped aside. Despite CNN's pro-establishment (read: pro-Biden) bias, it will make the next debate (March 15) infinitely more watchable, with just 2 participants. Bernie should eviscerate Biden on policy, but CNN will do whatever it takes to elevate Biden.


I’m sad she’s out of the race she was clearly the most competent and credible candidate running but unfortunately she doesn’t have a penis. It’s wild to think she was leading way ahead of the polls early on.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1975 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 5, 2020 7:26 pm

Ruzious wrote:
TGW wrote:
Ruzious wrote:In 2016, we learned that Sanders couldn't even come close to beating Clinton. Sanders supporters better get on board and show up and support Biden after Sanders loses to him. Otherwise, they might as well admit they've been Trump supporters all along.


Ok boomer. :lol:

Biden needs to EARN support if he's the nominee. Him screaming "get off my lawn" and "millenials complain too much" isn't going cut it. Sanders supporters got duped into voting for Hillary (more than Hillary supporters voted for Obama)...not this time. Progressives need something out of it if you expect us to vote for an unhinged, racist/sexist, mush-brained Biden.

Biden's a racist? Wtf. Sorry mods - there's no good way to respond to garbage like that. My opinion of Sanders followers is going down by the minute. All you should need is no Trump. Period. If that's not enough, find another party. Republicans and Russians seem to like Sanders - maybe start there. Btw, I have no idea who boomer is and don't care.


TGW is the STD of the left. He’s what happens when you live in the Reddit and twitter sphere. I mean he literally just made up Biden’s positions. Expect to be called a Hillary hoe soon.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1976 » by TGW » Thu Mar 5, 2020 9:03 pm

Ruzious wrote:
TGW wrote:
Ruzious wrote:In 2016, we learned that Sanders couldn't even come close to beating Clinton. Sanders supporters better get on board and show up and support Biden after Sanders loses to him. Otherwise, they might as well admit they've been Trump supporters all along.


Ok boomer. :lol:

Biden needs to EARN support if he's the nominee. Him screaming "get off my lawn" and "millenials complain too much" isn't going cut it. Sanders supporters got duped into voting for Hillary (more than Hillary supporters voted for Obama)...not this time. Progressives need something out of it if you expect us to vote for an unhinged, racist/sexist, mush-brained Biden.

Biden's a racist? Wtf. Sorry mods - there's no good way to respond to garbage like that. My opinion of Sanders followers is going down by the minute. All you should need is no Trump. Period. If that's not enough, find another party. Republicans and Russians seem to like Sanders - maybe start there. Btw, I have no idea who boomer is and don't care.


Yes, Biden IS A RACIST. Get over it, boomer. And IDGAF what you think about Sanders' supporters...anyone who calls themselves or registers themselves as a "democrat" is a phucking moron.

Let's go through the list of Biden's career racist lowlights:

- Personal friends with white supremacist Strom Thurmond, and delivered his eulogy
- Co-authored the crime bill that sent thousands, if not millions, of black males to prison
- Said “As Hillary points out, there’s neglect on the part of the medical and the white community focusing on educating the minority community out there. I spent last summer going through the black sections of my town, holding rallies in parks, trying to get black men to understand it’s not unmanly to wear a condemn." --> [Phucking prick thinks white people need to save black people.]

Read on Twitter


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-racist-myth-black-parents_n_5e2215a9c5b674e44b980327

Biden bragging about working with white supremacists: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/06/bidens-anachronistic-comments-race-and-civil-rights/592252/

Mushmouth Biden has an embarrassing record on almost every issue. But hey, that's your guy, boomer. Go with him...he'll get destroyed by Trump.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1977 » by gtn130 » Thu Mar 5, 2020 9:03 pm

Read on Twitter


Who could have predicted this???
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1978 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Mar 5, 2020 9:33 pm

Well, the problem with the "stand up to the bully" strategy is Trump can always punch back harder because his followers put no limits on how despicable his behavior can be. Ideally you play a game of tit for tat with Trump - he subpoenas Hunter, you subpoena Trump Jr. and just keep going down that hellhole until one of you blinks. Problem is Trump will not stop at ordering his followers to assassinate you. What do you do after he does that?

Other strategy is to just blow it off as the ravings of an insane lunatic.

Reporter: Trump said he's hired an assassination squad to take out Hunter, what's your response?
Biden: Meh I don't care what that idiot does or says. I'm focused on kicking his a$$ in November.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1979 » by Ruzious » Thu Mar 5, 2020 9:42 pm

TGW wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
TGW wrote:
Ok boomer. :lol:

Biden needs to EARN support if he's the nominee. Him screaming "get off my lawn" and "millenials complain too much" isn't going cut it. Sanders supporters got duped into voting for Hillary (more than Hillary supporters voted for Obama)...not this time. Progressives need something out of it if you expect us to vote for an unhinged, racist/sexist, mush-brained Biden.

Biden's a racist? Wtf. Sorry mods - there's no good way to respond to garbage like that. My opinion of Sanders followers is going down by the minute. All you should need is no Trump. Period. If that's not enough, find another party. Republicans and Russians seem to like Sanders - maybe start there. Btw, I have no idea who boomer is and don't care.


Yes, Biden IS A RACIST. Get over it, boomer. And IDGAF what you think about Sanders' supporters...anyone who calls themselves or registers themselves as a "democrat" is a phucking moron.

Let's go through the list of Biden's career racist lowlights:

- Personal friends with white supremacist Strom Thurmond, and delivered his eulogy
- Co-authored the crime bill that sent thousands, if not millions, of black males to prison
- Said “As Hillary points out, there’s neglect on the part of the medical and the white community focusing on educating the minority community out there. I spent last summer going through the black sections of my town, holding rallies in parks, trying to get black men to understand it’s not unmanly to wear a condemn." --> [Phucking prick thinks white people need to save black people.]

Read on Twitter


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-racist-myth-black-parents_n_5e2215a9c5b674e44b980327

Biden bragging about working with white supremacists: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/06/bidens-anachronistic-comments-race-and-civil-rights/592252/

Mushmouth Biden has an embarrassing record on almost every issue. But hey, that's your guy, boomer. Go with him...he'll get destroyed by Trump.

What the fug. At least when SD posted idiotic shyt, he showed an occasional sense of humor and writing ability. Your posts have consistently been nothing but nonstop hate and contempt. Being a friend of a racist doesn't make a person a racist and more than being a friend of a criminal makes that person a criminal. Strom Thurmond was rotten in many ways, but Biden had to work with him for years. So maybe he had some good qualities that drew them together? And on to Ignore ya go.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1980 » by dckingsfan » Thu Mar 5, 2020 10:01 pm

gtn130 wrote:Never Trump Republicans, the most reliable voting bloc for Democrats!

Ouch... sadly a very good point.

But hopefully the rest of the Ds come out big like in '18.

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